When do you think you will be / are you Mortgage free?

FURET

FURET wrote: »

See, I think what you've said above is fine and dandy if you have the cash to do it and you have all important bases already covered into the future.

But most people don't have the important bases adequately covered. Most people are probably living paycheck to paycheck and would be in pretty dire straights if they lost their job and were still jobless four months later.

When people don't have truly sufficient funds, such a purchase would be not just frivolous, but also dumb.

Very few people are in a position where everything would be fine if they lost their job. Life would be a dull place if nobody bought stuff just because they might lose their job and in general people who buy new cars etc are in pretty secure employment so that paycheck will keep coming.

I really don't get the fear some have for sensible borrowing in order to give allow one to live a nicer life.

Scrimping and scraping and doing without luxury's "just in case" would all appear just a bit of a waste of life to me, especially doing it in your 20's and 30's which are probably the best years of your life. Worry about cover the futures "bases" in the future, within reason of course, I'm not saying to be totally reckless either and owning a house outright before retirement would be a high priority for me (or much sooner).

FURET

Nina Hissing Xenophobia wrote: »

Very few people are in a position where everything would be fine if they lost their job. Life would be a dull place if nobody bought stuff just because they might lose their job and in general people who buy new cars etc are in pretty secure employment so that paycheck will keep coming.

I really don't get the fear some have for sensible borrowing in order to give allow one to live a nicer life.

Scrimping and scraping and doing without luxury's "just in case" would all appear just a bit of a waste of life to me, especially doing it in your 20's and 30's which are probably the best years of your life.

Borrowing 20k for a car is NOT sensible borrowing if you'd be in financial trouble within a few weeks of having lost a job. Especially when said person would then have to draw the dole and use dole money in part to clear their stupid debt.

What is sensible borrowing? Well, sensible borrowing might include such things as investing in one's own education when there is a very strong possibility that it will result in increased income down the road. Things like that represent sensible borrowing.

The_Captain

FURET wrote: »

Borrowing 20k for a car is NOT sensible borrowing if you'd be in financial trouble within a few weeks of having lost a job. Especially when said person would then have to draw the dole and use dole money in part to clear their stupid debt.

What is sensible borrowing? Well, sensible borrowing might include such things as investing in one's own education when there is a very strong possibility that it will result in increased income down the road. Things like that represent sensible borrowing.

Quick lads, hide the smokes, somebody's ma has an account

FURET

FURET wrote: »

Borrowing 20k for a car is NOT sensible borrowing if you'd be in financial trouble within a few weeks of having lost a job. Especially when said person would then have to draw the dole and use dole money in part to clear their stupid debt.

What is sensible borrowing? Well, sensible borrowing might include such things as investing in one's own education when there is a very strong possibility that it will result in increased income down the road. Things like that represent sensible borrowing.

Sensible borrowing is borrowing money which the monthly repayments can be easily met from your monthly wages.

The world would be a pretty dull place if we all spent our money like we wouldn't get our wages the following month, nobody would buy anyway and life would be pretty crap.

You have a very very different outlook on life to most people (including myself). You want to hoard money in order to have the option to stop working if you feel like (and life a fairly minimalist life I'd imagine) where as not working full time before pension time is not something on my radar. A minimalist life just wouldn't be for me, I like to have nice cars, up to date electronics, I want to own a house, I want to go out on the beer regularly etc.

FURET

Nina Hissing Xenophobia wrote: »

Sensible borrowing is borrowing money which the monthly repayments can be easily met from your monthly wages.

I could borrow 1000 euros so I could buy magic beans, and could easily repay it over 12 months from my monthly salary. Would it be sensible?

Sensible is the operative word. Whether a debt is sensible has *nothing* to do with the ability to repay it. It has *everything* to do with the utility of the thing you're borrowing for.

The world would be a pretty dull place if we all spent our money like we wouldn't get our wages the following month, nobody would buy anyway and life would be pretty crap.

You have a very very different outlook on life to most people (including myself). You want to hoard money in order to have the option to stop working if you feel like (and life a fairly minimalist life I'd imagine) where as not working full time before pension time is not something on my radar. A minimalist life just wouldn't be for me, I like to have nice cars, up to date electronics, I want to own a house, I want to go out on the beer regularly etc.

Sorry if I'm presuming, but you sound like a decent young guy who doesn't have a lot of responsibilities and who has probably never been truly caught by the balls in a financial vice-grip.

I don't actually hoard money. I just earn a lot of it. Just because I have it, it doesn't mean I spend it. Just because I can buy things, doesn't mean I will. I do live for the moment and am right now in a position where I can put my hand in my pocket and go anywhere I like, whenever I like, whether that's to the local steakhouse or to Bora Bora. Sometimes I do just that. But I'm not yet at a place where I can do that kind of thing indefinitely.

I'm very conscious of tomorrow. I'm very conscious of how situations can and often do change with lightning speed when you least expect it. I remember a time when I was literally down to my last euro, and the carelessness that got me there (namely the failure to delay gratification and only buy what I could comfortably afford (where the operative word is comfortably). Just because you can afford something now, it doesn't mean you'll be able to afford it (or continue your repayments) in six months.

I remember owing almost as much at one time as my then annual income, and the steps I had to take to reverse that situation. Now I'm in a much better situation, but the hard-learned lessons of financial planning and responsible consumerism have stayed with me. The best days of your life, by the way, aren't necessarily your twenties or thirties. They're the days when you're (1) truly comfortable in your own skin with (2) minimal worries and (3) lots of contentment. Being debt free and financially well off go a long way to making (2) and (3) happen for a lot of people. One of the most common sources of stress and anxiety and divorce is poor finance.

FURET

FURET wrote: »

I don't actually hoard money. I just earn a lot of it. Just because I have it, it doesn't mean I spend it. Just because I can buy things, doesn't mean I will. I do live for the moment and am right now in a position where I can put my hand in my pocket and go anywhere I like, whenever I like, whether that's to the local steakhouse or to Bora Bora. Sometimes I do just that. But I'm not yet at a place where I can do that kind of thing indefinitely.

Hoard was probably an unfair way to put it, I just meant you would rather keep money (or save) money on things that a lot of people like to have. You do say you travel though so presumably you do spend money on that, where as for me I'd rather spend money on some product (say a new laptop or a car loan repayment) rather than spend a lot of money travelling.

FURET wrote: »

I'm very conscious of tomorrow. I'm very conscious of how situations can and often do change with lightning speed when you least expect it. I remember a time when I was literally down to my last euro, and the carelessness that got me there (namely the failure to delay gratification and only buy what I could comfortably afford (where the operative word is comfortably). Just because you can afford something now, it doesn't mean you'll be able to afford it (or continue your repayments) in six months.

I remember owing almost as much at one time as my then annual income, and the steps I had to take to reverse that situation. Now I'm in a much better situation, but the hard-learned lessons of financial planning and responsible consumerism have stayed with me. The best days of your life, by the way, aren't necessarily your twenties or thirties. They're the days when you're (1) truly comfortable in your own skin with (2) minimal worries and (3) lots of contentment. Being debt free and financially well off go a long way to making (2) and (3) happen for a lot of people. One of the most common sources of stress and anxiety and divorce is poor finance.

I think there is probably a happy medium though that most people inhabit who work away, borrow for their car and house but never end up down to their last penny. People may be under a bit of pressure no doubt but that's to be expected and most people go through at some stage.

To answer your very first question, I'm 30 so not very young but not old either and no thankfully I have never been short of money or under any financial pressure.