Dublin Bus route 9

guile4582

I seldom use the bus, but when I have to I cannot believe that other people use this route for their morning commute

it took me 1 hour and 10mins to get from Lower Kimmage Road to Westmoreland St (around 5km) the other morning leaving Kimmage at 8am (other occasions it has taken closer to the hour mark)

this was the worst so far, it took 45mins alone to get to the end of that park in Harolds Cross.

how is this allowed to happen????

they might as well level that park in Harolds Cross and add more lanes

I couldn't believe it. you more or less have to give yourself an hour to get in.

same time it would take walking (i usually cycle but bike was on the fritz)

Defo gonna talk to all those politicians who will come knocking next year about this!

MrMorooka

Dublin Bus is where the silent majority of commuters are to be found. Every day thousands of people are sitting on buses for upwards of an hour getting around Dublin. For example, today it took me from 1356 to 1502 on a 39a to make it from home in the Ongar area to work on St Stephens Green. I'm sure coming home it will be at least 20 minutes longer. If I want to be on time somewhere, realistically I need to be at the bus stop an hour and a half before to account for possible delays and walking time. But if I were to drive the distance, Google tells me it would only take 30-45 minutes. Even if I cycled it, it would be less than the bus journey.

I don't really blame the company, Network Direct has helped a lot(but there is a lot they could do about driver changing delays and dwell times), it's the city. Car is absolutely king in Dublin, and the various councils and politicians have failed to provide any kind of proper infrastructure or bus priority. It's only getting worse too, BXD will have a massive impact, as will the BRT schemes if built. In another thread we are discussing the impact work on cycle facilities will have on buses using the quays. It really is death by a thousand cuts, constant small things along the course of routes that add up to just make journey times horrendous. A lot of people just don't realise how bad it has gotten, my father had to take a bus last week and was disgusted it took 55 minutes to get him into town and vowed never to take it again(this was his first time taking it in probably over a decade).

In the short term, this is why I am looking to move somewhere where I can just walk/cycle to work and cut the bus out entirely. In the long term, likely emigration to a city that knows how to run itself is for me.

schemingbohemia

guile4582 wrote: »

I seldom use the bus, but when I have to I cannot believe that other people use this route for their morning commute

it took me 1 hour and 10mins to get from Lower Kimmage Road to Westmoreland St (around 5km) the other morning leaving Kimmage at 8am (other occasions it has taken closer to the hour mark)

this was the worst so far, it took 45mins alone to get to the end of that park in Harolds Cross.

how is this allowed to happen????

they might as well level that park in Harolds Cross and add more lanes

I couldn't believe it. you more or less have to give yourself an hour to get in.

same time it would take walking (i usually cycle but bike was on the fritz)

Defo gonna talk to all those politicians who will come knocking next year about this!

What's your solution? Whose house are you going to demolish on Lower Kimmage Road to put in a bus lane? Whose garden are you going to rip up to do the same?

It's actually difficult to figure out a bus based solution for the route as far as Harold's Cross, there's bus lane for most of the way from there to Westmoreland Street.

Would you think of cycling?

smeal

I used to get that bus to work from my boyfriend's house.

First time I got it was about 7.50am expecting to be comfortably in work and make a coffee beforehand for 8.30am. Was getting off at George's St at 8.28am and sprinting to work!

So any time after I had to get it 7.35/7.40 and usually it made it to George's St for about 08.05- ample time. Obviously there's a 10/15 gap where an influx of Kimmage people hit the bus stops! I imagine these people are trying to get work for 9 ha.. I noticed though when I would drive to his house that there is a serious lack of bus lanes? Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think there is a bun lane the entire way from Kimmage to South Circular Road?

schemingbohemia

There's a bit from Harold's Cross to the canal, a little bit north of the canal and then on the SCR.

smeal

In fairness, any commuter bus in any city is going to be a disaster in the morning. Luckily I start work at 8.30am and live in D.3 so can walk in or comfortably get an 8am bus if the weather is crap and still have a good 10 mins to spare before work starts. However my housemates tell me the routes after 8am are a disaster- especially the Drumcondra bus routes- you'd be lucky to get a bus on this route at 8.15/8.30 because Dublin Bus can't cope with the amount of people so can't pick up stops because they're too full and 50% of the time don't send back up buses.

Suppose the only other solutions are cycle, get up earlier or buy a good pair of earphones and a great book and get on with it!

MrMorooka

Out of interest I picked two points in Amsterdam that seem to be same distance apart as my home and work(about 8.6km)(Belgischestraat, Zaandam to Van Reigersbergenstraat, Amsterdam), and their journey planner indicates that would only be a 45 minute trip at the time of day I made my Dublin trip today,taking a bus, a train, then a tram.

The a-b.ie NTA planner, for a journey the same distance to arrive at the same time at final destination, offers only the 39a service I actually took, quoted at a 1h08m travel time. Or if I fiddle with it, it can suggest I take the (once per hour) train for a total time of 1h16m.

guile4582

schemingbohemia wrote: »

What's your solution? Whose house are you going to demolish on Lower Kimmage Road to put in a bus lane? Whose garden are you going to rip up to do the same?

It's actually difficult to figure out a bus based solution for the route as far as Harold's Cross, there's bus lane for most of the way from there to Westmoreland Street.

Would you think of cycling?

I do cycle, its just the odd occasion I have taken the bus (another annoyance is that Kimmage/Harolds Cross surely needs Dublin bikes more than places like Ranelagh)

I just am flabbergasted that people put up with this day in day out

I don't know what the solution is but there has to be one.

any bus journey that takes as long as a walk needs to set off efficiency alarm bells!

one solution could be to run the 54A more regularly than the 9 down Kimmage road, as that goes up to Christchurch after the canal rather than SCR

guile4582

smeal wrote: »

Suppose the only other solutions are cycle, get up earlier or buy a good pair of earphones and a great book and get on with it!

given the nature of my job I need to stay in my office until 5.30pm, so realistically it means staying in the office longer

crazy for a 5km journey. but again I reiterate, i do cycle most days

AlekSmart

guile4582 wrote: »

I seldom use the bus, but when I have to I cannot believe that other people use this route for their morning commute

It took me 1 hour and 10mins to get from Lower Kimmage Road to Westmoreland St (around 5km) the other morning leaving Kimmage at 8am (other occasions it has taken closer to the hour mark)
This was the worst so far, it took 45mins alone to get to the end of that park in Harolds Cross.

How is this allowed to happen????

They might as well level that park in Harolds Cross and add more lanes
I couldn't believe it. you more or less have to give yourself an hour to get in.
Same time it would take walking (i usually cycle but bike was on the fritz)

Defo gonna talk to all those politicians who will come knocking next year about this!

Good question....with perhaps a small level of explanation in some recent statistics:

Between 2000-2010 The population of Ireland increased by c.18%

Between 2000-2010 The number of Driving Licence Holders increased from 2,014,296 to 2,655,048 in percentage of adult population terms,from 71% to 74%

However the sucker punch is the increase in registered vehicles during the same period,from 1,682,221 to 2,416,387,a total increase of 44%.

(The CSO statistics are compiled in 5 year batches,so a new tranche is due at the end of this year,however this is likely to show a renewed upward graph)

Statistics such as the above give an indication of the VAST gulf which exists between the policies being spoken of by successive Governments and those actually being implemented,which are often diametrically opposed.

The M3 corridor,for example,is officially regarded as being at "Saturation Point",which exists when every driving licence holder in a region has daily access to a private car.

What is not yet being spoken of aloud,is the reality that as projects such as LUAS BXD,and BRT lines are introduced then the available roadspace for private motoring WILL be significantly reduced.....we simply have to await the Penny Dropping

cdebru

Too many cars, too little road space and people prepared to waste hours sitting in private cars for journeys that could be completed faster cycling or even walking. That coupled with a complete lack of enforcement of bus priority measures, and the odd behaviour of pouring into the bus lane when traffic is heavy, like exactly when the bus lane is needed but nothing is done to stop it you will even see Gardai cars sitting in the bus lane along with the scores of private cars.

Banjoxed

MrMorooka wrote: »

Out of interest I picked two points in Amsterdam that seem to be same distance apart as my home and work(about 8.6km)(Belgischestraat, Zaandam to Van Reigersbergenstraat, Amsterdam), and their journey planner indicates that would only be a 45 minute trip at the time of day I made my Dublin trip today,taking a bus, a train, then a tram.

The a-b.ie NTA planner, for a journey the same distance to arrive at the same time at final destination, offers only the 39a service I actually took, quoted at a 1h08m travel time. Or if I fiddle with it, it can suggest I take the (once per hour) train for a total time of 1h16m.

Anecdotal evidence would suggest that a significant number of commuters are unwilling to change mode or to interchange. My door to door from North Kildare to Dublin 2 used to be consistently an hour because I used the railway station at the other side of the town, and took the tram at the other end. Fellow neighbours would do the same journey in a stuffy and fogged up bus in 1.20 because they thought it more convenient.

cgcsb

Much of the problem is that Dublin Bus, like any bus system, simply does not have the capacity to carry the number of people wanting to travel, and even if it did there is scant bus priority measures to allow them to do so.

South west Dublin, I.e. Harolds cross, terenure, rathgar etc. Should have a metro line connecting them to north Dublin City via the City Centre

D15 should be served by trains every 10 minutes at least on an electrified Maynooth line complimented by short feeder bus routes

However our policy has been to build more roads and little else. This needs to change.

LXFlyer

The real problem is that this particular route has no available road space south of Harold's Cross Road to install any form of bus priority measures - the road is simply too narrow.

There really isn't much more that can be done along that section of road.

The south central section of the city is probably the area that suffers the worst from this south of the Liffey, and it has long been my view that the only practical solution to alleviating the congestion would be a "Metro South", but that really isn't likely any time soon.

cdebru

lxflyer wrote: »

The real problem is that this particular route has no available road space south of Harold's Cross Road to install any form of bus priority measures - the road is simply too narrow.

There really isn't much more that can be done along that section of road.

The south central section of the city is probably the area that suffers the worst from this south of the Liffey, and it has long been my view that the only practical solution to alleviating the congestion would be a "Metro South", but that really isn't likely any time soon.

It is also the area completely devoid of Dublin bike stations south of the river, it might also be possible to make bus only roads since that is what you would effectively do with a on street metro or luas.

LeinsterDub

How much of the journey time is spent waiting at stops? And how many of those stops are less than 400 meters apart

guile4582

it is crazy how close some stops are.

guile4582

how about a flyover?

guile4582

a response from Joan Collins TD:

I use the bus service most mornings so I am aware of this. There is definitely an increase in traffic in the mornings I have to leave at least 20 mins earlier than I did 4-5 months ago. I do not agree the service is inefficient, the bus corridors have some effect but the problem is when you hit an area where there is no bus lane and there is a bottleneck. There has been an increase in traffic due to extra cars and small vans on the road. I can and will place a question into the Dept of transport but I would advise you to put a complaint into Dublin Bus and request a review of our public transport system. As far as I am aware there is no plan but I will check it out. I am in opposition so obviously if this problem develops a campaign by commuters would have to be looked at.

I would ask others to complain to Dublin Bus along with me.

LXFlyer

What exactly do you expect Dublin Bus to do? It isn't their fault that buses are stuck in traffic.

The route that the 9 takes is one that simply cannot fit any bus priority measures in and I think that you have to accept that.

If it's that much of an issue for you, then maybe you should try a different bus route that does have bus lanes along the route.

guile4582

I am proposing it gets looked at.
if you read the thread, one thing I suggested that could help city centre commuters is to run the 54a more frequently, re routing may be an option.

all I want to do is highlight the issue. for me it isn't the end of the world, I cycle most mornings, but when I see something wrong I act upon it.

it's better than just throwing your hands up in the air and ignoring it.

LXFlyer

I think it is fair to say that Dublin Bus would be aware of the issue, because it would impact on later journeys if buses are running late.

I'm not really sure why you think increasing frequency on the 54a is the solution? What would you do with the 9? Are you suggesting re-routing it?

The issue is far wider than one Dublin Bus can address - it's a fundamental policy issue that needs addressing by local and central government.

While I understand your frustration, I think you might be better addressing local government.

guile4582

lxflyer wrote: »

While I understand your frustration, I think you might be better addressing local government.

which i have see above. i have contacted all sitting TDs that represent the area and local councillors.

54A goes through Christchurch which isn't as congested a route and has mostly bus lanes and far spaced out stops. It would still take time to get out of Harolds Cross but at least then you know the worst is over. On the 9 you still have to negotiate the SCR and the turn onto Camden st.

there is talk of privatising non city centre routed buses, like the 18 etc. I say privatise city centre routed buses!

pclive

Why not simply contact DCC via e-mail at traffic@dublincity.ie

no need to get TDs or Cllrs involved

guile4582

pclive wrote: »

Why not simply contact DCC via e-mail at traffic@dublincity.ie

no need to get TDs or Cllrs involved

all done.

LXFlyer

guile4582 wrote: »

which i have see above. i have contacted all sitting TDs that represent the area and local councillors.

54A goes through Christchurch which isn't as congested a route and has mostly bus lanes and far spaced out stops. It would still take time to get out of Harolds Cross but at least then you know the worst is over. On the 9 you still have to negotiate the SCR and the turn onto Camden st.

there is talk of privatising non city centre routed buses, like the 18 etc. I say privatise city centre routed buses!

What is happening is not privatisation per se. It is simply route tendering.

That means that a private company (or indeed Dublin Bus) would operate the service, but all of the network planning, timetable specification etc. will still be done by the National Transport Authority. The private company would simply be responsible for operating the buses.

While adding a couple of extra 54a buses might help some people, they are still going to take the same amount of time to get from the KCR to the north end of Harold's Cross Green than the rest of the buses do currently. There are limited resources available, and adding extra buses is going to cost money that might be better spent elsewhere I'm afraid. The 9 is one of the key routes along the SCR and I can't see it being changed.

I think that unless something major is done to redirect traffic away from the Lower Kimmage Road, which is unlikely given the likely negative knock on effects it would have on the other radial routes, it's one stretch of road that I think you probably need to accept is one that not a lot can be done about.

guile4582

good points and well made. from my point of view, while they open another unnecessary Dublin bike stop in areas that have loads to begin with or give other areas better transport links, we (commuters from the area), should request that this issue is highlighted and that perhaps an alternative can be sought.
open a dialogue. the route down sundrive to town to link up with the new bus lanes planned for the quays...who knows. I believe it is important to seek answers.

it could well be that Dublin could head towards a London style congestion zone charge.

the change this week with schools being on half term is unreal.

MrMorooka

Oh, is they why my commute is much better this week? Didn't realise schools were out.

Dyr

Two simple problems:
Cars, like cigarettes, generate revenue, bus services cost revenue, so guess which mode the government favours?

Pumping money into bus infrastructure means pumping money into Dublin bus. You might as well chuck the moolah into the liffey for all the good that will do

cdebru

guile4582 wrote: »

which i have see above. i have contacted all sitting TDs that represent the area and local councillors.

54A goes through Christchurch which isn't as congested a route and has mostly bus lanes and far spaced out stops. It would still take time to get out of Harolds Cross but at least then you know the worst is over. On the 9 you still have to negotiate the SCR and the turn onto Camden st.

there is talk of privatising non city centre routed buses, like the 18 etc. I say privatise city centre routed buses!

How would a privately operated bus get through the traffic any quicker ? Would cars suddenly move aside when they saw a privately operated bus approaching ?

BTW I think we should privatize Met Eireann it is raining again today bloody incompetence..........

cdebru

Bambi wrote: »

Two simple problems:
Cars, like cigarettes, generate revenue, bus services cost revenue, so guess which mode the government favours?

Pumping money into bus infrastructure means pumping money into Dublin bus. You might as well chuck the moolah into the liffey for all the good that will do

The money should be pumped into bus priority infrastructure and some Gardai to police said priority, buying extra buses will achieve very little if they are just stuck in traffic. Not Dublin buses fault if private cars pile over into the bus lane making it completely inoperable or if drinks companies decide to deliver to a pub on Bachelor's Walk at 7:50 in the morning and park in the bus lane to do it.

guile4582

cdebru wrote: »

How would a privately operated bus get through the traffic any quicker ? Would cars suddenly move aside when they saw a privately operated bus approaching ?

BTW I think we should privatize Met Eireann it is raining again today bloody incompetence..........

they may seek using an alternative route, they may be more open to change and running an efficient servie

your Met Eireann comment is just nonsense and you know it is

cdebru

guile4582 wrote: »

they may seek using an alternative route, they may be more open to change and running an efficient servie

your Met Eireann comment is just nonsense and you know it is

Where ? Will they build their own private roads ?

What change could DB make that would allow the 9 to move through bumper to bumper traffic ? Fit wings ?

Yeah and its my met eireann comment that's nonsense, because apparently DB are running the 9 through traffic on purpose just because they dont like change.

BTW it is the NTA that decides on routings and no private company will be able to take the 9 down the empty roads that DB are avoiding without the NTA approving it .

guile4582

we could send cars down other roads though couldn't we?

Private companies seem to get their will more than government run companies, look at the Cork Bike Scheme for instance

cdebru

guile4582 wrote: »

we could send cars down other roads though couldn't we?

Private companies seem to get their will more than government run companies, look at the Cork Bike Scheme for instance

But it would be the NTA which is not a private company that decides on routes but rather than cheer leading for the improvements you expect with a private cpany perhaps you might read up on what is involved in tendering.

They will bid for a route, at a certain service level, they will be paid on a km driven basis, carry no one they get paid carry a full bus they get paid the same amount, all the fares collected go to the NTA, any changes to routes or timetables have to be approved by the NTA. You might be waiting for the great private sector innovativation for a long time. The badge on the drivers uniform might be different and he will probably be paid less but other than that the 9 would still be stuck in traffic.

guile4582

so feck it then, just give up is it?

cdebru

guile4582 wrote: »

so feck it then, just give up is it?

Not at all just look for a real solution rather than hoping some privately operated bus will fix it, bus only streets are a good idea, BRT, luas, metro, extension of the bike scheme.

GBX

guile4582 wrote: »

how about a flyover?

Where or how do you suggest this could possibly work in a suburban area like Harolds Cross/Kimmage

Birneybau

GBX wrote: »

Where or how do you suggest this could possibly work in a suburban area like Harolds Cross/Kimmage

Yeah, they obviously don't know the area, mad suggestion!

guile4582

FYI

I got a response from the traffic authority today:

The ITS Officer reports that the timings at the junction of Harold's Cross Road at Harold's Cross Park have been adjusted in order to give more time to traffic approaching from Kimmage. As is it not possible to provide bus lanes on Kimmage Road Lower public transport will suffer from delays along this section of the route when traffic volumes are particularly heavy.
The timings at Harold’s Cross Road/Grove Road and at Leonard’s Corner have also been adjusted to cater for the heavier volumes being experienced along the route.
A yellow box will be provided at the end of the inbound bus lane on Clanbrassil Street Upper to assist buses in getting from bus stop 01347 across to the right turning lane onto the South Circular Road.
The route will continue to be monitored.

LXFlyer

Well that's a few steps in the right direction in terms of improving the flow of the buses.

Peregrine

There are way too many stops on the route 9 in Glasnevin and Finglas. The distance between some stops is ridiculous. It's so frustrating sitting there while the bus stops at these stops, lets one person on, drives 150-200m up the road, takes on another and does the same again.

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Examples/Google-Map/?routeNumber=9&direction=OI&towards=Limekiln+Ave.&from=Charlestown

Prospect Avenue - St. Theresa’s Place: 190m

Griffitth Avenue - Glasnevin Tennis Club: 250m
Glasnevin Tennis Club - St. Canice’s Road: 210m
St. Canice’s Road - DCU: 170m
DCU - St. Pappin’s Road: 160m
St. Pappin’s Road - Glasnevin Avenue: 220m

6 stops over a distance of 1km. 1 stop every 167m.


Beneavin Drive - Beneavin Park: 230m
Beneavin Park - Beneavin School: 180m

3 stops in 410m. One stop every 137m.


Clune Road - Clancy Avenue: 160m
Clancy Avenue - Sycamore Road: 290m
Sycamore Road - McKee Road: 130m

4 stops in 580m. One stop every 145m.


At least 5 of those stops are completely unnecessary.

guile4582

Nim wrote: »

There are way too many stops on the route 9 in Glasnevin and Finglas. The distance between some stops is ridiculous. It's so frustrating sitting there while the bus stops at these stops, lets one person on, drives 150-200m up the road, takes on another and does the same again.

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Examples/Google-Map/?routeNumber=9&direction=OI&towards=Limekiln+Ave.&from=Charlestown

Prospect Avenue - St. Theresa’s Place: 190m

Griffitth Avenue - Glasnevin Tennis Club: 250m
Glasnevin Tennis Club - St. Canice’s Road: 210m
St. Canice’s Road - DCU: 170m
DCU - St. Pappin’s Road: 160m
St. Pappin’s Road - Glasnevin Avenue: 220m

6 stops over a distance of 1km. 1 stop every 167m.


Beneavin Drive - Beneavin Park: 230m
Beneavin Park - Beneavin School: 180m

3 stops in 410m. One stop every 137m.


Clune Road - Clancy Avenue: 160m
Clancy Avenue - Sycamore Road: 290m
Sycamore Road - McKee Road: 130m

4 stops in 580m. One stop every 145m.


At least 5 of those stops are completely unnecessary.

start contacting the relevant bodies. A few of my nags have paid dividends. there is a real difference in traffic flow in kimmage area has defo improved

(cyclist numbers seem the same too - this will increase though as it gets warmer)

LuckyLloyd

Well fair play to you for complaining, though I wonder if such a change adversely affects road users coming from another direction.

Ultimately though, I have to wonder why you believe you should be entitled to use motorised transport to traverse that route in a certain amount of time at peak period on a work day?

cdebru

guile4582 wrote: »

start contacting the relevant bodies. A few of my nags have paid dividends. there is a real difference in traffic flow in kimmage area has defo improved

(cyclist numbers seem the same too - this will increase though as it gets warmer)

Well done, the important part is complaining to the people who can actually change it, complaining to DB because there buses are stuck in traffic is next to useless.

Carawaystick

Nim wrote: »

At least 5 of those stops are completely unnecessary.

Which 5?

Player_86

While I don't use the 9 bus route, I do occasionally use the 15A, the 54A and the 150 (I'm based on Limekiln Road) when the weather is too cold to cycle.

All of these routes are very poor, and I don't blame Dublin Bus - it's more down to the city centre approach roads being too narrow, as a previous poster pointed out. I contacted all of the local public representatives about this and I understand that the traffic light sequence approaching Terenure on the 15A has been changed, which makes the trip into town a little quicker, as this is where the 15A generally gets held up.

I think a LUAS extension from the Kylemore stop towards the general Templeogue area would be a good idea. Having lived in several areas of Dublin in my early 20s, I think the general Limekiln/Templeogue/Perrystown/Greenhills area is the worst area for public transport in Dublin. A LUAS extension would link a huge chunk of people not only with town, but with the hospitals at Tallaght and St James's, thereby further reducing congestion on the southside in general. Not a chance of it happening though!

guile4582

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Well fair play to you for complaining, though I wonder if such a change adversely affects road users coming from another direction.

Ultimately though, I have to wonder why you believe you should be entitled to use motorised transport to traverse that route in a certain amount of time at peak period on a work day?

Because when for example you see there is so little traffic coming the other way etc. a simple thing like changing traffic light frequency can help move things along a lot smoother.

and I cycle 99% of the time btw.

LXFlyer

guile4582 wrote: »

Because when for example you see there is so little traffic coming the other way etc. a simple thing like changing traffic light frequency can help move things along a lot smoother.

and I cycle 99% of the time btw.

The main problem on that route however, is not traffic going in the other direction, but rather that two separate inbound routes merge together at Harold's Cross Green. Your route merges with that coming from Terenure and Rathfarnham at that location - it's very hard to manage that any more than is done already.


The welcome changes mentioned above will however help the 9, 16, 49 and 54a.

Nom DeGuerre

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, just wondering if anyone living in the Kimmage area or beyond knows if journey times for the number 9 bus have improved in any way over the last year or two since the change to the traffic light sequencing at Harold's Cross?

For example, Google Maps says the number 9 takes 18 minutes to get from Kimmage Road Lower (outside Mount Argus Community Centre and the row of shops) to Aungier Street leaving at 8.30 am on a weekday. Would this be reasonably accurate or are they living in a dream world!?

I ask because I'm thinking of buying a house in the area.

guile4582

i moved out of the area
I seriously doubt there is any improvment (given the narrow roads) and to add to that there is a huge building site before the Harolds Cross bottleneck now that I say has added further delays