Atheist goes nuts, kills 3 Muslims for being theist.

jank

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Couldn't this just as easily have been racially motivated?

Islam is not a race..

Turtwig

jank wrote: »

Islam is not a race..

Aye but it's rare for a Muslim to be a Caucasian. To put it more intuitively, if a black Muslim was killed by a white person it could be racially motivated. Racism isn't reserved to black and white people.

jank

Turtwig wrote: »

Somehow, this case has grown into a matter of global concern. Obama has even been criticised by other world leaders for not taking it seriously. The family believe it is a hate crime and the killer's posts on Facebook (the anti theist ones) have reverberated around the world. If it is a hate crime that should be independently determined. Not by cherry picking Facebook quotes and certainly not by political interference.

Words of advice to any potential serial killers out there in the US: don't kill Muslims. Their death get's rigorously investigated by the Fbi, local police, government civil rights division and the atf.
Any ethic group (except puerto Rican, Hispanic, or Cuban) if you want a thorough investigation into your loved one's death consider declaring it's a hate crime.

Sarcasm aside if it is a hate crime then finding out is important. I'm not sure if all the resources being wasted on it are though? They already have the killer.

What is good for the goose, is good for the gander. If this has been a christian and the victim a gay person, then I am sure we would be see this incident added to the 'hazards of belief' thread without too much independent examination to see if this would be a 'hate crime' or not. So, it is a bit funny seeing people now going all 'this was just a crazy person' move along...

But I do agree with the sentiment and your fundamental point. This is why I am fundamentally against 'hate crime' laws. All they service to do is divide people into little groups where some groups have more rights then others. Remember when a Lesbain went into a Muslim barber shop and demanded to have her hair cut?
http://www.torontosun.com/2012/11/16/gay-activists-have-met-their-match-with-muslim-barbers
If that barber shop had been a just run of the mill mens only barber shop they would have been taken to court over some human rights abuse. The above issue was resolved without court proceedings.....

Also, welcome to the 21st century media, where everything is blown out of proportion and perspective, clarity, truth and facts are lost. I mentioned this before in the Tuam babies thread and was basically lynched by A&A regulars for 'trying to dismiss' the story.

jank

Turtwig wrote: »

Aye but it's rare for a Muslim to be a Caucasian. To put it more intuitively, if a black Muslim was killed by a white person it could be racially motivated. Racism isn't reserved to black and white people.

So, what race are Muslim people may I politely ask? White people can be Muslims too, just visit the Balkans and the caucasus.

Adding race to the equation is just juvenile whataboutery. These people were not black so your example is /dev/null

Turtwig

Heh I mentioned that in the babies thread too. Didn't get lynched. Thanks for taking all the lynching for me.

I don't believe hazards has ever reported gay incidents by Christian that weren't clear cases of homophobia. Any unclear incident was called up on.

Turtwig

jank wrote: »

So, what race are Muslim people may I politely ask? White people can be Muslims too, just visit the Balkans and the caucasus.

Adding race to the equation is just juvenile whataboutery. These people were not black so your example is /dev/null

All races.

It's not whataboutery. Especially if you must be pedantic on one sentence. You misunderstood hotblack, is all. We don't know what it was. It could have been anything.

jank

Turtwig wrote: »

All races.

It's not whataboutery. Especially if you must be pedantic on one sentence. You misunderstood hotblack, is all. We don't know what it was. It could have been anything.

Exactly, Muslims can be people of all races so bringing race up is whataboutery. Just look at the photo of the victims.



Yes, clearly a racial overtone to these murders.:cool::pac:

jank

Turtwig wrote: »

Heh I mentioned that in the babies thread too. Didn't get lynched. Thanks for taking all the lynching for me.

I don't believe hazards has ever reported gay incidents by Christian that weren't clear cases of homophobia. Any unclear incident was called up on.

Well, let us say each incident of violence in the West towards gays doesn't get examined to the same extent as this one. White 'christian' male vs Gay male, well religion made him do it of course..:p

Regards the Tuam babies thread. You agreed with me on the media reaction to it which I appreacited. However, you are respected here, I am not. Therefore its easy to bully the outsider and remember I had to open a thread on the feedback forum to air a grevience where a mod grudgingly gave me an apology for the over the top treatment he gave me. Since then, it hasn't been too bad so maybe the lynching was a good thing for all concerned.

But lets leave all that in the past, shall we.

Turtwig

A crime is committed.

Potential motives:
Robbery,
Family feud,
Racism,
Religious,
Lust,
Etc.

Until you know why the crime was committed suggesting one potential motive or the other isn't whataboutery. Whataboutery would be what about Muslim people murdered in Africa? What about black people murdered in America? What about people robbed in America? Etc.

If these people are of different racial descent to their killer then racism is a possible motive. That's not whataboutery to state so.

Turtwig

Oh I accept your point when something conforms to expectations it's not examined as thoroughly. Pere made a great example recently. Can't recall the specifics. It was something to do with a judge in Britain. Media reported it as Catholic bias when it could have gone either way.

jank

Turtwig wrote: »

A crime is committed.

Potential motives:
Robbery,
Family feud,
Racism,
Religious,
Lust,
Etc.

Until you know why the crime was committed suggesting one potential motive or the other isn't whataboutery. Whataboutery would be what about Muslim people murdered in Africa? What about black people murdered in America? What about people robbed in America? Etc.

If these people are of different racial descent to their killer then racism is a possible motive. That's not whataboutery to state so.

Maybe they were left handed and the killer is right handed. Those damm lefties!



Perhaps Strawman would have been a better adjective than whataboutery.
I think it is safe to say their race had very little to do with it.
As an aside what 'race' are these people? They look Turkish maybe or possibly from Bosnia/The Balkins?

Hotblack Desiato

Probably. I hadn't seen pictures.

robindch

jank wrote: »

However, one could argue that they pursued by a religious fervor in the name of some person or some ideology. Would one then equate the bible to Karl Marx's Das Capital or Hitlers Mein Kampf? Hitler = Jesus/God ? You are then almost redefining the word religion from its traditional sense.

Religion is one instance of exclusivist, anti-co-operative behaviour. So are the behaviours encouraged implicitly or explicitly by other exclusivist organizations like trade unions, armies and political parties.

The basic problem here is selfish memes and the failure on most people's part to recognize them for what they are.