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A shotgun wedding in Fermanagh?

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124

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    #92
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    eviltwin wrote: »
    It's a disgusting way to think, these kids should be in school, not getting married. The bride will be destined to be a housewife and mother when she's just a kid herself. Some culture.

    You think that is bad ? you should hear about the Roma in the South of Spain? 14 & 15 is the age to get married.... I kid you not


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    #93
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    Where does the money come from for these lavish weddings?

    Gambling on sulkie racing and bare knuckle fights as well as sale of copper found on the road and other items discarded in peoples sheds and outhouses!


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    #94
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    conorhal wrote: »
    The Catholic Church have nothing to do with it, marriage is a state institution and the laws governing it and the age at which marriage are permissible are on the statute books not the mass epistle

    Maybe in Law but the catholic church has had its own law for years and they bend the rules to suit. plus you dont want to end uo in the middle of a traveller feud


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    #95
    Kleine Hundin
    Registered Users Posts: 95 ✭✭Kleine Hundin


    I read the article in the Indo this morning and while the wedding went ahead, the reception was cancelled. That's something. The poor couple. Regardless of their age, they should not have their wedding ruined.


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    #96
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    eviltwin wrote: »
    It's a disgusting way to think, these kids should be in school, not getting married. The bride will be destined to be a housewife and mother when she's just a kid herself. Some culture.

    Poor girl will be too busy getting over the many beatings she has in store to be worried about such things!


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    #97
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    jelutong wrote: »
    One Wedding and a Funeral.

    ..... and you think that will be the end of it? ... Its going to end up like a sub plot ofr Peaky Blinders.


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    #98
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,310 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    eviltwin wrote: »
    It's a disgusting way to think, these kids should be in school, not getting married. The bride will be destined to be a housewife and mother when she's just a kid herself. Some culture.

    Yeah it's pretty disgusting, marrying them off so they don't get any notions about having a life of their own or anything


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    #99
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    So much for their spiel about being devout Catholics when they bring weapons into the house of their God.


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    #100
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    Kleine Hundin wrote: »
    I read the article in the Indo this morning and while the wedding went ahead, the reception was cancelled. That's something. The poor couple. Regardless of their age, they should not have their wedding ruined.

    Dont worry in a few years when they are all grown up with kids they will be breaking into your house on your wedding day.


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    #101
    conorhal
    Registered Users Posts: 6,983 ✭✭✭conorhal


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    Maybe in Law but the catholic church has had its own law for years and they bend the rules to suit. plus you dont want to end uo in the middle of a traveller feud

    There's no bending of any law, simply the application of it as it stands. You have to show up at a church with a marriage licence from the state, which they didn't do in the South because they wouldn't have gotten one, so actually it's N. Ireland and it's problematic recognition of Travellers as an ethnic minority with a special status and exemption on the age at which they marry that's the problem.


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    #102
    ardmacha
    Registered Users Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »
    So much for their spiel about being devout Catholics when they bring weapons into the house of their God.

    On a technicality, the shooting was near, but not in the grounds of, the church. Had it been in the church, no doubt the wedding too would have been cancelled.

    I note that when the priest was interviewed this the radio on Morning Ireland he said that there was often an undercurrent of tension at traveller weddings, of course the PC interviewer felt the need to inject that this wasn't unique to traveller weddings! I'd say the priest dreads a booking for travellers.


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    #103
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Unfortunately it wasn't the only traveller wedding that was in the news this week

    http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/news/tragic-jacqueline-mcdonaghs-wedding-day-at-the-age-of-18-turned-her-family-into-film-stars-30980147.html


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    #104
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    ardmacha wrote: »
    On a technicality, the shooting was near, but not in the grounds of, the church. Had it been in the church, no doubt the wedding too would have been cancelled.

    There was also a stabbing. My guess is, if there had been no shooting, there would still have been at least one person in the church with a knife on them.


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    #105
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    conorhal wrote: »
    There's no bending of any law, simply the application of it as it stands. You have to show up at a church with a marriage licence from the state, which they didn't do in the South because they wouldn't have gotten one, so actually it's N. Ireland and it's problematic recognition of Travellers as an ethnic minority with a special status and exemption on the age at which they marry that's the problem.

    They dont need a licence from the State, they need a blessing from a priest, that is good enough. There used to be a priest who used to do it specially. His get out of jail card was "it was better than them having sex out side of marriage". Tough culture. But that was at least 5 years back. Personally I think it is facilitating Statutory rape.


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    #106
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    ardmacha wrote: »
    On a technicality, the shooting was near, but not in the grounds of, the church. Had it been in the church, no doubt the wedding too would have been cancelled.


    The priest was effectively told by the family to continue with the wedding. It would appear that he was not aware that someone had actually been shot. He claimed to have been shocked when he heard a man had died.

    The would appear to be some difficulties in the investigation this brutal story

    Two men shot and a third man allegedly stabbed.

    The victims of the shooting were then bundled into a van and driven to a PSNI station. The van was abandoned outside the police station.

    The continuing of the wedding effectively meant that the scene of the crime was not preserved.

    One person who fled the scene was apprehended in Lisnaskea

    The rest of the wedding party left the scene of the crime and headed for the border, where they entered the south - with the result that the PSNI are going to have a very difficult time taking witness statements or questioning members of the party and other suspects.

    It is of interest that the wedding party appeared to have no connection with the town of Newtownbuttler and travelled from another jurisdiction just to get married. This remains unexplained - were they expecting trouble or is there advantages to getting married in the North as opposed to the south?

    I don't envy the PSNIs job with this incident tbh. The NI taxpayer will also be footing the bill for this latest incursion ..,


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    #107
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,729 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    Poor girl will be too busy getting over the many beatings she has in store to be worried about such things!

    Sure all the women want 50 shades of grey?


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    #108
    conorhal
    Registered Users Posts: 6,983 ✭✭✭conorhal


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    They dont need a licence from the State, they need a blessing from a priest, that is good enough. There used to be a priest who used to do it specially. His get out of jail card was "it was better than them having sex out side of marriage". Tough culture. But that was at least 5 years back. Personally I think it is facilitating Statutory rape.

    You're not married without a licence from the state, at best the priest in question (who I believe to be misguided) is consecrating a 'Romeo and Juliet' relationship that the state itself has been wrestling with legislation to accomodate within the confines of the legal age of consent. There's no shortage of support to decriminalise sexual acts between teenagers of a similar age while maintaining a ban on adult-minor relationships.


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    #109
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    gozunda wrote: »
    were they expecting trouble
    It wouldn't be a traveller wedding without a bit of trouble.

    Hotels don't routinely discriminate against travellers because they don't like them. It's because there's a high chance of a fight developing in the car park with slash hooks, or just a plain old brawl in ballroom.


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    #110
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Regarding the age of the parties getting married

    In the south
    Age requirement
    If you are ordinarily resident in the Irish State, the minimum age at which you may marry is 18 years (unless you have a Court Exemption Order). This is the case even if you marry outside of Ireland. Even if you are not ordinarily resident in the Irish State, you must be over 18 years of age if you wish to marry someone in Ireland.

    There is no requirement for parental consent to a marriage, irrespective of the ages of the parties concerned.

    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth_family_relationships/getting_married/legal_prerequisites_for_marriage.html


    This is for Northern Ireland
    Who can be married in Northern Ireland?

    Any two persons may marry in Northern Ireland provided that:

    both persons are at least 16 years of age on the day of their marriage - anyone under 18 will need parental consent, or if appropriate an order of a court dispensing with consent
    they are not related to each other in a way which would prevent their marrying
    they are unmarried (any previous marriage must have been ended by divorce, death or annulment)
    they are not of the same sex
    they are capable of understanding the nature of a marriage ceremony and of consenting to marriage

    http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/sm/guidance-on-marriage-procedures-in-northern-ireland

    Explains why the young pair (he 16, she 17) were doing an across the border style wedding. In the US, Mexico afaik is also used for similar purposes.


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    #111
    Forest Demon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 632 ✭✭✭Forest Demon


    People discriminate against travellers as a group (not a race) for what they do and not who they are. It's a large section letting its own group down. Any traveller in education or making an effort getting nothing but praise in the media.

    I know a few travellers who are grand but even they are weary of each other. Are people supposed to be blindly impartial?

    Look up Tower Hill and see the history of the situation and see if this is the type of behaviour that breeds discrimination. They are their own worse enemy and the media and Polititions are doing them no favours by pretending this problem does not exist.


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    #112
    Odyssey 2005
    Registered Users Posts: 21,065 ✭✭✭✭Odyssey 2005


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    Where does the money come from for these lavish weddings?

    Copper, Tarmac and ropey generators.:P


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    #113
    jmayo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,092 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    ardmacha wrote: »
    On a technicality, the shooting was near, but not in the grounds of, the church. Had it been in the church, no doubt the wedding too would have been cancelled.

    I note that when the priest was interviewed this the radio on Morning Ireland he said that there was often an undercurrent of tension at traveller weddings, of course the PC interviewer felt the need to inject that this wasn't unique to traveller weddings!

    I heard that this morning and I couldn't believe the fooking cheek of the b*tch.
    How many non traveller funerals and weddings have pitch battles ?

    Yeah the odd guy may get too drunk and say something, but they are usually quickly escorted off the premises.
    You don't have people going at each other with slash hooks and now guns.

    A traveller funeral in Ballymote, Co. Sligo a number of years back ended with guys being chased, by other travellers with shotguns, through elderly people's houses beside the graveyard.

    It's the shyte talk engaged in by people like that interviewer that excuses the violence that appears to be endemic in the traveller community.


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    #114
    tom_k
    Registered Users Posts: 1,062 ✭✭✭tom_k


    Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »
    So much for their spiel about being devout Catholics when they bring weapons into the house of their God.

    Well I didn't hear any concrete evidence that weapons were brought inside the church in this case but it's happened before.

    http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=14776:slash-hook-attack-at-ballinrobe-confirmation-mass&catid=23:news&Itemid=46


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    #115
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    jmayo wrote: »
    I heard that this morning and I couldn't believe the fooking cheek of the b*tch.
    How many non traveller funerals and weddings have pitch battles ?

    Yeah the odd guy may get too drunk and say something, but they are usually quickly escorted off the premises.
    You don't have people going at each other with slash hooks and now guns.

    A traveller funeral in Ballymote, Co. Sligo a number of years back ended with guys being chased, by other travellers with shotguns, through elderly people's houses beside the graveyard.

    It's the shyte talk engaged in by people like that interviewer that excuses the violence that appears to be endemic in the traveller community.

    This is the elephant in the room that pc authorities seem unwilling to challenge. Anyone can be violent but it appears to be part of the culture of travellers. Any disagreement or feud can only be solved by violence. It's seen as just part of life and therefore accepted and this is being passed down to kids who grow up seeing this as normal. Most kids don't grow up seeing their dad's and uncles kicking lumps out of each other. For travellers kids it's normal and the authorities just let it happen. The traditional traveller way of life is no place for children.


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    #116
    jmayo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,092 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    eviltwin wrote: »
    This is the elephant in the room that pc authorities seem unwilling to challenge. Anyone can be violent but it appears to be part of the culture of travellers. Any disagreement or feud can only be solved by violence. It's seen as just part of life and therefore accepted and this is being passed down to kids who grow up seeing this as normal. Most kids don't grow up seeing their dad's and uncles kicking lumps out of each other. For travellers kids it's normal and the authorities just let it happen. The traditional traveller way of life is no place for children.

    The thing is Pavee point and the usual apologists will in the future be on some radio show or tv program complaining that some poor traveller couple have just had their wedding ruined because a hotel cancelled the reception once they found out they were travellers.

    Of course there will be charges of racism, discrimination, lack of knowledge, etc levelled at the hotel.

    Not once will the supporters of the couple actually admit the reason the hotel is doing it is because of the type of shyte that occurred yesterday.

    If travellers want to be treated as a homogenous ethnic group then they better get their act together as a group and do something about the crap that often happens once they get together socially.


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    #117
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    jmayo wrote: »
    The thing is Pavee point and the usual apologists will in the future be on some radio show or tv program complaining that some poor traveller couple have just had their wedding ruined because a hotel cancelled the reception once they found out they were travellers.

    Of course there will be charges of racism, discrimination, lack of knowledge, etc levelled at the hotel.

    Not once will the supporters of the couple actually admit the reason the hotel is doing it is because of the type of shyte that occurred yesterday.

    If travellers want to be treated as a homogenous ethnic group then they better get their act together as a group and do something about the crap that often happens once they get together socially.
    What I find most hilarious is that they'll be crowing about their minority status for no end of freebie handouts, but if anybody makes any judgement on them besides how much free stuff they should get there'll be uproar.


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    #118
    keano_afc
    Registered Users Posts: 8,711 ✭✭✭keano_afc


    Travellers. It's the 99% that give the 1% a bad name.


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    #119
    JimAllister
    Site Banned Posts: 4 ✭JimAllister


    Maybe if we build a wall dividing Britain and Ireland then these travellers don't enter into our wee Ulster


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    #120
    whiskeyman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,564 ✭✭✭✭whiskeyman


    JimAllister wrote: »
    Maybe if we build a wall dividing Britain and Ireland then these travellers don't enter into our wee Ulster

    Problem is, they'll probably offer to build it at the best price boss.







    Then watch it crumble a little while later...


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    #121
    kingchess
    Registered Users Posts: 795 ✭✭✭kingchess


    JimAllister wrote: »
    Maybe if we build a wall dividing Britain and Ireland then these travellers don't enter into our wee Ulster

    Very smart idea-build a wall on the Ocean floor:rolleyes:


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