Dublin council considers cycle paths on Liffey quays

MrMorooka

rte.ie/news/2015/0211/679492-dublin-cycle-transport/

Previously discussed, but now in the national news with maps etc.

While I'm all for this kind of thing and removing private cars from the city centre, I worry about the effect this will have on buses- I would hope any scheme would at the very least not add to journey times, they are already too long.

I would also prefer if in Option 2 and 3 the buses were routed on the quay road instead of shunted to Benburb St- they should have priority with the higher quality/less intersections/higher speed road along the quay side instead of private cars.

MrMorooka

Also let's hope option 4 is not chosen, it is not too different from the current setup, and does not solve the bus stop/left turning conflicts like the other options do.

cgcsb

Why does option 1 prioritise cars over buses???

Aard

Option 3 looks most promising, seeing as how it will likely incorporate flood mitigation measures at Wolfe Tone Quay.

monument

MrMorooka wrote: »

While I'm all for this kind of thing and removing private cars from the city centre, I worry about the effect this will have on buses- I would hope any scheme would at the very least not add to journey times, they are already too long.

I would also prefer if in Option 2 and 3 the buses were routed on the quay road instead of shunted to Benburb St- they should have priority with the higher quality/less intersections/higher speed road along the quay side instead of private cars.

Option 2 and 3 would be designed around giving buses as much priority as possible. A bus lane along the Luas tracks would call for giving buses and trams priority.

• At the west end: There's little or no issue with option 2 and zero issue with option 3
• At the east end: The designers said today that priority measures would be designed so that buses would cross into Church Street around the same time as trams cross the street, so there should be good priority.

Your suggestion of putting cars onto Benburb St and keeping buses on the quays would require criss-crossing flows of buses and general traffic -- that's about the worst thing you can plan for.

There's about the same amount of intersections on both routes -- possible fewer notable side streets / entrances on the inner route along the Luas tracks.

cgcsb wrote: »

Why does option 1 prioritise cars over buses???

What do you mean?

Pete_Cavan

MrMorooka wrote: »

Also let's hope option 4 is not chosen, it is not too different from the current setup, and does not solve the bus stop/left turning conflicts like the other options do.

It would be disappointing if number 13 on the list of options assessed on slide 24, One way Both Quays on Building Side of Quays (Option 4 later), has been chosen for further investigation while number 4 on that list, One Way Both Quays (which I assume is one direction cycle lane on both quays, along the river) has been dismissed.

To me, a one direction cycle lane on both quays, along the river, would be the best solution. There would be a lot fewer junctions than on the building side and also avoids buses/cars pulling in. It would also allow for wider cycle lanes, a ~1m cycle lane each direction would in insufficient for the volume of cyclists given the different speeds various cyclists travel at. Slow cyclists in the cycle lane would likely see faster cyclists move into the road space where drivers would be even less accommodating than at present (yes I am sure that is possible!). Having cycle space wide enough for overtaking would really improve the prospects for success and promoting cycling.

MrMorooka

monument wrote: »

At the east end: The designers said today that priority measures would be designed so that buses would cross into Church Street around the same time as trams cross the street, so there should be good priority.

I was thinking more about buses crossing back from Church St onto the quays to be honest.

LXFlyer

MrMorooka wrote: »

I was thinking more about buses crossing back from Church St onto the quays to be honest.

That's precisely the fear that I have as well - at the moment buses flow freely along the North Quays and are faster than the trams from Parkgate Street to O'Connell Bridge.


Moving them onto Benburb Street is only going to increase journey times as far as I can see, as they will have to wait at Church Street to get back onto the Quays.

Tenzor07

Option 4, one way cycle lanes on each side of the Quays, as a poster mentioned, a 2 way lane would not be sufficient to accommodate the amount of users, otherwise will lead to collisions and conflicts...

The main issue here is why this is not done already, the Quays are a deathtrap for the majority of cyclists due to the volume and speed of motor traffic which needs to be addressed.

MrMorooka

Realistically a one way cycle lane would just be a pain to use, someone going from, say the DCC offices on Wood Quay to Tara St station is not going to want to have to cross the river and then cross it again further east. May as well make it two way from the start.

Tenzor07

MrMorooka wrote: »

Realistically a one way cycle lane would just be a pain to use, someone going from, say the DCC offices on Wood Quay to Tara St station is not going to want to have to cross the river and then cross it again further east. May as well make it two way from the start.

Just thinking of the width of the cycle path, and the numbers of users, could create conflicts at peak times...ever tried cycling West along the canal cycle path in the weekday morning? It's like going against a heard of charging wild horses! :rolleyes:

hmmm

monument wrote: »

Your suggestion of putting cars onto Benburb St and keeping buses on the quays would require criss-crossing flows of buses and general traffic -- that's about the worst thing you can plan for.

Could you explain how this criss crossing occurs? At the moment buses travel along the quay bus lane, in the proposal the buses are routed on a circuitous route while general traffic carries on along the quays. How is this not slower than today for bus users?

loyatemu

MrMorooka wrote: »

Realistically a one way cycle lane would just be a pain to use, someone going from, say the DCC offices on Wood Quay to Tara St station is not going to want to have to cross the river and then cross it again further east. May as well make it two way from the start.

they already have to do that, the south quays are one way in the other direction.

cgcsb

monument wrote: »

What do you mean?

Meant to say option 2 where buses are diverted instead of cars

monument

cgcsb wrote: »

Meant to say option 2 where buses are diverted instead of cars

Diverted but given priority.

How would you suggest cars could be diverted without crossing the bus lane?

LXFlyer

monument wrote: »

Diverted but given priority.

How would you suggest cars could be diverted without crossing the bus lane?

Until I see what exactly they have planned in terms of priority I remain totally unconvinced by this.

In particular given that trams have no priority at any of the junctions along that section, I'm not sure how buses are going to get any more priority.

monument

lxflyer wrote: »

Until I see what exactly they have planned in terms of priority I remain totally unconvinced by this.

In particular given that trams have no priority at any of the junctions along that section, I'm not sure how buses are going to get any more priority.

Trams seem to have good proirty at Church Street but I'm no longer a regular user or in the area much, so I'm open to correction.

cgcsb

monument wrote: »

Diverted but given priority

what does diverted but given priority mean?

monument wrote: »

How would you suggest cars could be diverted without crossing the bus lane?

a simple traffic light system right before the switch, something like this:



cars would have to stop to allow buses cross their path.

LXFlyer

monument wrote: »

Trams seem to have good proirty at Church Street but I'm no longer a regular user or in the area much, so I'm open to correction.

They don't have priority - they have to go through the normal traffic cycle at each junction.


Buses currently use the main route along the Quays which has longer green cycles so I remain totally unconvinced that they will be better by being diverted.

Spanish Eyes

Maybe I am missing something, but why not just have the North Quays bus lane and segregated two way cycle lane only. Widen the footpaths with the extra space that cars would use.

Divert cars onto the bus space in Benburb Street.

There is no way that diverting buses along Benburb Street and back out again on to the Quays at Church Street would be any quicker at all than the present bus lane system on the Quays which works brilliantly IMV.

With the exception of the ridiculous layout at the Quill Pub/Church Street that is!

I travel this route by bus frequently, and it is very swift going down the Quays.

Someone might be able to point out where my thinking is going wrong!

beauf

I'm not a bus user. I would be looking forward to these cycle routes and would use them a lot.

But I think buses should have the most direct route where possible. Though I wouldn't always include taxis in that. As I think they are more hazardous to cyclists.

Tenzor07

beauf wrote: »

But I think buses should have the most direct route where possible. Though I wouldn't always include taxis in that. As I think they are more hazardous to cyclists.

Agree that priority bus lanes should be in place along with the re-design for the cycle lanes, Taxi's are service vehicles only, same as couriers/delivery vans etc, no use having a priority bus lane on the quays if a taxi is stopped in the lane picking up or dropping off.

beauf

That is true. But I was thinking more of new people to cycling. If one of the objectives is to encourage people to cycling, mixing with taxi's would put off a lot of people. But sure anything that speeds up buses is to be considered seriously. I dunno how significant taxi's stopping is for buses. Its major hazard for cyclists, due to their unpredictability and poor driving.

I think the quays is very daunting to a lot of people, mainly because of its reputation. While I think some of it is undeserved. I would say that a proper cycle route up the quays would probably watershed/landmark route for a lot of people. It would be the anchor for a lot of other routes to feed into.

AngryLips

If they went with option three then it would be nice to divert all traffic except cyclists away from the portion of the quays in front of Croppy Acre and extend this park right up to the river front with the cycle lane going through the park.

Mec-a-nic

Not even going to read this - isn't a plan like this announced every year? I've been cycling the quays for decades and don't want to get my hopes up unnecessarily, I'm still waiting for anything to move on the S2S route... /rant

seamus

Yeah, I don't get why Options 2 & 3 want to divert busses off the quays. Surely the better solution would be to divert cars off the quays and allow busses to proceed straight on.

Option 4 is just...no. Even putting one-way cycle lanes on the riverside would be better than building side. What happens at junctions, bus stops, etc? Stick a cycle lane on the building side and it will just become another walking lane.

monument

seamus wrote: »

Yeah, I don't get why Options 2 & 3 want to divert busses off the quays. Surely the better solution would be to divert cars off the quays and allow busses to proceed straight on.

I will reply in more detail to other posts but just to quickly say:

Having general west-east traffic cross a bus lane at grade twice ends badly for everybody or will have tailbacks back for miles past the M50 and would clog up the Church Street / Bridge Street junction.

I'm all for sustainable transport but such a shock move would cause a massive backlash even before it was put in place. Even if people want a near-car free city centre, this road is not one you want to go down.

You can put measures in place for buses but such would not work for far greater levels general traffic while retaining some level of traffic access. I can see buses working and they could replace the hopeless current bus stop just before the junction with Church St with a high-end stop beside the Smithfield Luas stop.

beauf

While I'm for the cycle lanes. You still have to consider the cars. They will still be the vast majority of the traffic.

Aard

I hope there will be some connection to south of the river. No point in having a two-way cycle track if you can't turn south onto Frank Sherwin Bridge and then onwards to St Johns Road West. Or would you be expected to use Rory O'Moore Bridge and Victoria Quay in that instance? Not the best solution imo.

Likewise, will there be a seamless connection onto Chesterfield Avenue?

hmmm

monument wrote: »

You can put measures in place for buses but such would not work for far greater levels general traffic while retaining some level of traffic access. I can see buses working and they could replace the hopeless current bus stop just before the junction with Church St with a high-end stop beside the Smithfield Luas stop.

It is a hopeless stop I agree. Sending buses off on a circuitous route and adding to travel times is a very strange option to present, and only makes sense to me if the planners want to present some options that are so ridiculous that the decision makers will be forced to go with a different plan. It's clear to me that Option 1 is what the planners want.

MrMorooka

I don't really see the need for the boardwalk at the pinchpoints in option 1- nobody uses the quayside paths at the minute anyway(unless accessing parked cars), and the building-side footpath remains, so doubt it would be used heavily enough to justify the expense.

Pete_Cavan

I agree, diverting cars onto Benburb Street is not workable. There is too much general traffic for Benburb Street to handle and it could also affect Luas. Buses could operate more easily alongside Luas and having both together would along with lights priority at junctions would make both faster. However, putting buses onto Church Street to get back to the quays will not work. With all the traffic on Church Street, you would only get one bus from Benburb Street onto Church Street in every lights cycle. Buses would be drip feed onto Church Street with all others queuing up behind, it would be too slow. Buses should use Chancery Place to join the quays and have their own dedicated lane along the quays from there.

MrMorooka

How could buses get to Chancery Place? The Four Courts Luas stop seems to be in the way.

markpb

beauf wrote: »

While I'm for the cycle lanes. You still have to consider the cars. They will still be the vast majority of the traffic.

They are the vast majority of the *vehicles* but do not account for the vast majority of *people* travelling in the city centre - Dublin bus are the winners there.

cgcsb

Adding journey time to buses to accommodate cars is madness and contrary to the City's development plan. The cars must be sent through benburb street. A simple traffic light system can allow the bus and traffic lanes switch at park gate street. Then merge them again past church st where the bus will continue on the right hand lane with general traffic and loading areas on the left. Bus stops will operate on island platforms with pedestrian crossings connecting them to the building side.

beauf

markpb wrote: »

They are the vast majority of the *vehicles* but do not account for the vast majority of *people* travelling in the city centre - Dublin bus are the winners there.

I didn't know that. I thought it was cars.

Spanish Eyes

Jays at this stage I'd nearly stop buses altogether at Heuston, and make Luas transfer mandatory!

When the Luas cross city is finished it will make perfect sense, one can get up to St. Stephen's Green and places South and North. But that will entail two transfers. AAAGH.

But the LEAP discounts for sub 90 minute journeys will help!

Might be quicker in the long run, and would not involve all the rigmarole for the buses on the North Quays.

Off the wall I know, But hey....

Just a Friday night rant.

LXFlyer

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Jays at this stage I'd nearly stop buses altogether at Heuston, and make Luas transfer mandatory!

When the Luas cross city is finished it will make perfect sense, one can get up to St. Stephen's Green and places South and North. But that will entail two transfers. AAAGH.

But the LEAP discounts for sub 90 minute journeys will help!

Might be quicker in the long run, and would not involve all the rigmarole for the buses on the North Quays.

Off the wall I know, But hey....

Just a Friday night rant.

All of that ignores the fact that buses are quicker than LUAS from Heuston to the city centre as it is.

Add to that the fact that there are significant numbers of already full buses passing by - are you seriously thinking that then switching onto a LUAS and again onto a further LUAS would be better than staying on the bus in the first place, as virtually all of them go to the St Stephen's Green area.

monument

markpb wrote: »

They are the vast majority of the *vehicles* but do not account for the vast majority of *people* travelling in the city centre - Dublin bus are the winners there.

Actually walking is. By a long shot.

Subpopulus

markpb wrote: »

They are the vast majority of the *vehicles* but do not account for the vast majority of *people* travelling in the city centre - Dublin bus are the winners there.

In 2013:
Cars were about 55% of the vehicles but only 35% of the people.
Busses are 0.75% of the vehicles but 29% of the people.

All the data is here:
http://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Canal_Cordon_Trends_2006-2013.pdf

Spanish Eyes

lxflyer wrote: »

All of that ignores the fact that buses are quicker than LUAS from Heuston to the city centre as it is.

Add to that the fact that there are significant numbers of already full buses passing by - are you seriously thinking that then switching onto a LUAS and again onto a further LUAS would be better than staying on the bus in the first place, as virtually all of them go to the St Stephen's Green area.

That was a slightly tongue in cheek post by me!

I use the route down the quays on the bus regularly. It is great, except for the Church Street Junction, and after the Hapenny Bridge, but that is because there are other buses other than DB allowed to stop there I think.

My preference would be be for buses to continue as they are, full bus lanes all the way down the quays, it works well now, and if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Aard

Subpopulus wrote: »

In 2013:
Cars were about 55% of the vehicles but only 35% of the people.
Busses are 0.75% of the vehicles but 29% of the people.

All the data is here:
http://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Canal_Cordon_Trends_2006-2013.pdf

The canal cordon doesn't include trips that originate within the canals (risking stating the obvious here). As such, a huge number of people who walk, cycle, and take bus/Luas exclusively within the canal aren't counted. There would be comparatively fewer car journeys that both start and end within the canals.

monument

Here we go... Replying to a few posts I did not get a chance to yesterday or before...

Mec-a-nic wrote: »

Not even going to read this - isn't a plan like this announced every year? I've been cycling the quays for decades and don't want to get my hopes up unnecessarily, I'm still waiting for anything to move on the S2S route... /rant

It's effectively same project since it was adopted in the city's development plan in 2010, following that there was some blue-sky thinking in 2011, a number of sets of stakeholder consultation workshops after that, and the city manager "announcing" it in an interview last June.

hmmm wrote: »

Could you explain how this criss crossing occurs? At the moment buses travel along the quay bus lane, in the proposal the buses are routed on a circuitous route while general traffic carries on along the quays. How is this not slower than today for bus users?

Firstly, the beside-Luas route is not circuitous in the most preferred plan, option 3.

As for how the crossing traffic happens: For general traffic to be put along the Luas and buses kept on the quays, the following would have to happen to with the main west-east flows of both:

Buses............ -- \\//-- General traffic
General traffic --//\\-- Buses

And then to get general traffic back onto the quays:

General traffic -- \\//-- buses
Buses.............. --//\\-- General traffic

lxflyer wrote: »

...Moving them onto Benburb Street is only going to increase journey times as far as I can see, as they will have to wait at Church Street to get back onto the Quays.

At the Church Street / quays junction there could be a fully segregated bus only turn into the bus lane onto the quays. On the Four Court corner of the junction where the current slip turn is you could have a traffic island jutting out protecting the turn.

lxflyer wrote: »

They don't have priority - they have to go through the normal traffic cycle at each junction.

Buses currently use the main route along the Quays which has longer green cycles so I remain totally unconvinced that they will be better by being diverted.

In that case I've been on and have seen a massive amount of well-timed or just lucky trams.

On the quayside, while there's long green cycles, I've done my fair share of waiting on and beside buses, not for long but around the same as the the short waits on trams.

cgcsb wrote: »

what does diverted but given priority mean?

cgcsb wrote: »

a simple traffic light system right before the switch, something like this:



cars would have to stop to allow buses cross their path.

Crisscrossing traffic flows is not what that traffic light does, but coming up with a traffic light is not the issue. The poor performance of the layout is the issue -- be that for both buses and cars or disproportionally for cars.

MrMorooka wrote: »

I was thinking more about buses crossing back from Church St onto the quays to be honest.

Was just covering all angles

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

My preference would be be for buses to continue as they are, full bus lanes all the way down the quays, it works well now, and if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

That's option 1 -- which has major issues with cost of the boardwalk and how the boardwalk would interact / can't interact with bridges / dump people into the pinch points at the bridges / effect on heritage.

thomasj

lxflyer wrote: »

That's precisely the fear that I have as well - at the moment buses flow freely along the North Quays and are faster than the trams from Parkgate Street to O'Connell Bridge.

lxflyer there were times this week traffic on the quays was at a standstill!

Tuesday and Wednesday this week in particular were bad, spent about 10 minutes on the bus getting from the James Joyce bridge to ormond quay bridge in the morning peak. At times the car lane was moving faster than the bus lane and the volumes of buses and taxis in the bus lane was telling!

The worry is, with the return of boom traffic were going to be seeing more of what we saw on the quays this week more often in the future.

Pete_Cavan

thomasj wrote: »

Hah lxflyer you obviously weren't using the north quays this week!

Tuesday and Wednesday this week in particular were bad, spent about 10 minutes on the bus getting from the James Joyce bridge to ormond quay bridge in the morning peak. At times the car lane was moving faster than the bus lane and the volumes of buses and taxis in the bus lane was telling!

The worry is, with the return of boom traffic were going to be seeing more of what we saw on the quays this week more often in the future.

This is the problem with buses, the more of them ther are, the slower they are. By not having off-board ticketing, buses have to queue just to get to the stop. If only they would get on with building Dart Underground, having high capacity, high frequency services directly into the city centre and linking with all other rail services would leave big scope for reallocating road space to cycling. Until DU is built, various lobby groups will ensure we will continue to get comprised camels instead of horses. Once it is operational (whenever that will be) we should hopefully see a trffic lane on both sides of the river given over to cycling.

LXFlyer

thomasj wrote: »

lxflyer there were times this week traffic on the quays was at a standstill!

Tuesday and Wednesday this week in particular were bad, spent about 10 minutes on the bus getting from the James Joyce bridge to ormond quay bridge in the morning peak. At times the car lane was moving faster than the bus lane and the volumes of buses and taxis in the bus lane was telling!

The worry is, with the return of boom traffic were going to be seeing more of what we saw on the quays this week more often in the future.

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

This is the problem with buses, the more of them ther are, the slower they are. By not having off-board ticketing, buses have to queue just to get to the stop. If only they would get on with building Dart Underground, having high capacity, high frequency services directly into the city centre and linking with all other rail services would leave big scope for reallocating road space to cycling. Until DU is built, various lobby groups will ensure we will continue to get comprised camels instead of horses. Once it is operational (whenever that will be) we should hopefully see a trffic lane on both sides of the river given over to cycling.

Well I would make the point that the numbers of buses hasn't really changed - there must be something else, such as the LUAS works in the city centre, that is causing the congestion.


And I fail to see anything in this proposal that will improve the situation. Quite the opposite if buses are being diverted.

Aard

The Hammond Lane to Inns Quay movement via Church Street can be achived with just a little bit of clever signalling:

- Flush vehicles from Church Street beliw the Luas tracks, giving a clear run between the Luas and the Quays.

- Stack vehicles on Church Street at the red light at the Luas tracks.

- Allow the Luas to cross (either eastbound, westbound, or both as the case may be)

- As the Luas is crossing, buses from Hammond Lane will have a free run to turn right onto Church Street then left onto Inns Quay.

- Once the buses have been let out of Hammond Lane and the Luas has crossed, vehicles will be given green to use Church Street.

LXFlyer

monument wrote: »

At the Church Street / quays junction there could be a fully segregated bus only turn into the bus lane onto the quays. On the Four Court corner of the junction where the current slip turn is you could have a traffic island jutting out protecting the turn.

I still am unconvinced by any argument that a bus having to turn right and then turn left is or could be faster than a bus travelling in a straight line.

monument wrote: »

In that case I've been on and have seen a massive amount of well-timed or just lucky trams.

On the quayside, while there's long green cycles, I've done my fair share of waiting on and beside buses, not for long but around the same as the the short waits on trams.

Well I can only tell you what I know - that is that the priority for LUAS was switched off along that section at the various junctions.


As someone who has had to travel along that section of road at various times, I can also assure you that by and large the bus will beat the tram from Heuston to O'Connell Bridge, except where there is something blocking the Quays.


Re-routing buses away from the Quays to Benburb Street is not the solution.

monument

lxflyer wrote: »

And I fail to see anything in this proposal that will improve the situation. Quite the opposite if buses are being diverted.

The diversion is not substantial and will clearly call for priority measures -- also with option 3 the diversion isn't any longer distance wide.

It also avoids two fairly poor junctions -- the one at Church St and the far less one at Blackhall place.

It would also be very helpful to buses using Blackhall Place which currently suffer a sometimes long delay at its junction with the quays -- buses don't need as much green time and quicker traffic light cycles are generally better for public transport.

It should also remove the vast bulk of people cycling in narrow sections of bus lanes -- having the growing numbers cycling mix with buses is just not sustainable.

lxflyer wrote: »

I still am unconvinced by any argument that a bus having to turn right and then turn left is or could be faster than a bus travelling in a straight line.

I'm not saying it would be faster, I'm saying it's the best of the four options or the lightly mentioned sub options of moving private traffic off the quays and along the Luas tracks.

Any project from Metro North to a cycle route does or should look at a matrix of possible benefits and downsides. Where there are possible downsides like slowing flow of public transport or reducing car capacity, then the goal should be to reduce the affect as much as possible -- reducing it to close to zero should be the aim.

But make no mistake here: Between Luas Cross City, BRT, and the cycle network, the city is clearly talking about reducing private capacity as an acceptable consequences of switching to modes which will move more people in the limited space between the canals and even inside the M50.

lxflyer wrote: »

Well I can only tell you what I know - that is that the priority for LUAS was switched off along that section at the various junctions.

The priority was somewhat downgraded mainly I understand because cars and truck drivers kept breaking red lights and hitting trams.

lxflyer wrote: »

As someone who has had to travel along that section of road at various times, I can also assure you that by and large the bus will beat the tram from Heuston to O'Connell Bridge, except where there is something blocking the Quays.

I used to live in Parkgate Street and later just north of Smithfield and picking bus or tram at all sorts of different times of the day was a great game.

Buses were always a bit faster outside of peak times, trams were however more reliable at peak times.

Even if you were going south of the river, getting a tram and walking from Jervis etc was the more dependable option most of the time.

lxflyer wrote: »

Re-routing buses away from the Quays to Benburb Street is not the solution.

When you balance everything out, it seems to be the best option and most realistic option on the table.

This it is worth mentioning is about more than just transport -- the livable city, tourism, and health benefits are massive. But with transport alone, it's about increasing the amount of people who can be moved and options 2 and 3 do that better than options 1 or 4.

HydeRoad

Diverting buses via Benburb Street is disgraceful. On NO planet could that be considered a good idea. I don't know who is coming up with these schemes, but if that is the calibre of proposal, then I can only come to the conclusion that there are agendas at play.

Bus services in Dublin are being slowly throttled, and we have a main bus operator in the city who seem wholly complicit in this. Other threads here speak of worse and worse reliability of bus services. I see no thread anywhere delighting in bus journey times getting quicker or more efficient, anywhere.

Just what is the bottom line here? Who are we actually trying to accommodate?

monument

HydeRoad wrote: »

Diverting buses via Benburb Street is disgraceful. On NO planet could that be considered a good idea. I don't know who is coming up with these schemes, but if that is the calibre of proposal, then I can only come to the conclusion that there are agendas at play.

Bus services in Dublin are being slowly throttled, and we have a main bus operator in the city who seem wholly complicit in this. Other threads here speak of worse and worse reliability of bus services. I see no thread anywhere delighting in bus journey times getting quicker or more efficient, anywhere.

Just what is the bottom line here? Who are we actually trying to accommodate?

If there was an agenda at play aiming to slow buses as much as possable they would divert cars along the Luas, crisscrossing bus and general traffic twice.

Yet, strangely, many pro-bus posters have suggested just that -- to crisscrossing bus and general traffic twice and somehow they see this as a better idea.