Buildup Thread: Ireland v France, Sat 14th of Febuary

.ak

Build up starts here... What are your thoughts? Do you think there'll be any changes in the matchday 23?

awec

Heaslip and Sexton back in at least.

aimee1

McGrath, Best, Ross, POC, Toner, POM, Jordi, Heaslip
Murray, Sexton , Zebo, Henshaw, Payne, Bowe, Kearney

Think Jordi will get the nod as he is a bit more abrasive then TOD who will bench. One other scenario is McCarthy is available and we have Henderson start so its Jordi or TOD on the bench. Fast Eddie never had these problems.

The bench will be interesting. I can see so many possibilities. Could we see Keatley and Madigan on the bench with Jones dropping out?

vienne86

I found it hard to fathom Jones getting a bench spot on Saturday, but I certainly can't see him in the 23 this weekend.

Fireball07

If I was picking the team, I'd be harsh and make a few changes. But I'm not Joe and I'm not sure he will.

I'd bring Heaslip, Sexton and Fitzgerald in at 8, 10 & 13 and I'd move POM to 7, with Henderson at 6. I'd also have Earls at 23, don't really mind about who of Keatley/Madigan are at 22.


Do we have word on Healy?


I'm only expecting the 2 obvious changes tbh, and believe he'll remain faithful with Jones too.

Risteard

Fireball07 wrote: »

If I was picking the team, I'd be harsh and make a few changes. But I'm not Joe and I'm not sure he will.

I'd bring Heaslip, Sexton and Fitzgerald in at 8, 10 & 13 and I'd move POM to 7, with Henderson at 6. I'd also have Earls at 23, don't really mind about who of Keatley/Madigan are at 22.


Do we have word on Healy?


I'm only expecting the 2 obvious changes tbh, and believe he'll remain faithful with Jones too.

Those are exactly the changes I would make

aimee1

Fireball07 wrote: »

If I was picking the team, I'd be harsh and make a few changes. But I'm not Joe and I'm not sure he will.

I'd bring Heaslip, Sexton and Fitzgerald in at 8, 10 & 13 and I'd move POM to 7, with Henderson at 6. I'd also have Earls at 23, don't really mind about who of Keatley/Madigan are at 22.


Do we have word on Healy?


I'm only expecting the 2 obvious changes tbh, and believe he'll remain faithful with Jones too.

Foley, Ryan and Tuohy are out. Not sure what the situation is with McCarthy so cant see Henderson starting if we have no 2nd row cover on the bench.

I would like to see more then the obvious changes, Fitz at 13 for example, but dont see it happening

vienne86

Fireball07 wrote: »

If I was picking the team, I'd be harsh and make a few changes. But I'm not Joe and I'm not sure he will.

I'd bring Heaslip, Sexton and Fitzgerald in at 8, 10 & 13 and I'd move POM to 7, with Henderson at 6. I'd also have Earls at 23, don't really mind about who of Keatley/Madigan are at 22.


Do we have word on Healy?


I'm only expecting the 2 obvious changes tbh, and believe he'll remain faithful with Jones too.

I like the look of that, but no, I don't think it will happen. It would mean dumping Payne, which he won't. I asked about McCarthy earlier, out of interest really, but actually his fitness (or lack of) could have quite an impact on the selection.

Swiwi.

There's always a difference between what I want and what I get...

I reckon what I get is Heaslip and Sexton back in, with Murphy moving to 7, and that's it.

As I posted in the match-day thread what I want is Moore at 3, Hendo at 6 with POM at 7, Heaslip back in at 8, Sexton at 10, and Fitzgerald at 13.

fitz

Swiwi. wrote: »

There's always a difference between what I want and what I get...

I reckon what I get is Heaslip and Sexton back in, with Murphy moving to 7, and that's it.

As I posted in the match-day thread what I want is Moore at 3, Hendo at 6 with POM at 7, Heaslip back in at 8, Sexton at 10, and Fitzgerald at 13.

This, exactly this.

Clareman

Swiwi. wrote: »

There's always a difference between what I want and what I get...

I reckon what I get is Heaslip and Sexton back in, with Murphy moving to 7, and that's it.

As I posted in the match-day thread what I want is Moore at 3, Hendo at 6 with POM at 7, Heaslip back in at 8, Sexton at 10, and Fitzgerald at 13.

I think this would be the best team as well, but the problem facing the management is that Ross is a much better starter than a sub, Moore will bring so much more to the last 30 minutes than Ross would Hendo is covering a lot of places by being on the bench, if you start him who's going to provide second and back row cover? Heaslip and Sexton are a no brainer, I'd like to see Fitz at 13 judging by the feedback on here but Payne doesn't get a lot of time there and there's only 7 games left till the RWC now.

accensi0n

Clareman wrote: »

and there's only 7 games left till the RWC now.

8

.ak

Clareman wrote: »

I think this would be the best team as well, but the problem facing the management is that Ross is a much better starter than a sub, Moore will bring so much more to the last 30 minutes than Ross would Hendo is covering a lot of places by being on the bench, if you start him who's going to provide second and back row cover? Heaslip and Sexton are a no brainer, I'd like to see Fitz at 13 judging by the feedback on here but Payne doesn't get a lot of time there and there's only 7 games left till the RWC now.

Have to say, I'm in the Luke fitz fan club, but if I'm being honest I think joe should stick with the midfield he has. Give it time, let it develop. Two big lads with plenty of guile under joe, it's bound to pay off eventually. Midfields need time to gel.

For me, I thought Ross was very positive at scrum time and we saw his value. The Italian loose head was really struggling with him, couldn't get under him at all. He might not be the sturdiest scrummager but he knows everyone's tricks.

If I was picking a team I'd go with...

McGrath
Best
Ross
POC
Toner
POM
Murphy
Heaslip
Murray
Sexton
Fitzgerald/Earls
Henshaw
Payne
Bowe
Kearney

Cronin
Healy
Moore
Henderson
TOD
Reddan
Madigan
Zebo

That's on the assumption if sob isn't fit. Even if he was I'd still have him on the bench, incase he pulls up again so there's no disruption to the starting lineup.

Fitzgerald at 11 for me because the way we seem to be using the wings doesn't suit Zebo's strengths. He got gobbled up in contact a few times against the Italians, Fitzgerald is stronger carrier in tight exchanges.. So is earls.

I'm not sold on the idea of Hendo starting at 6. He's a great carrier but we need more balance to the back row.

thomond2006

Heaslip and Sexton in, otherwise I don't see any changes. If Fitzgerald and Earls weren't considered for Italy I don't see why they would be brought in against France. The performances in the Pro12 weekends in the next two weeks might push Schmidt for changes but I don't see any changes outside of obvious ones for France.

Alexandre Menini and Alexandre Flanquart are out with injuries. Debaty and Suta have been called up to the squad. Debaty has played very little for Clermont this year but his use is as an impact player.

Squad for Ireland:
Ben Arous, Debaty, Mas, Slimani, Atonio,
Kayser, Guirado,
Maestri, Papé, Suta, Taofifenua,
Dusautoir, Chouly, Goujon, Le Roux, Lauret, Nyanga

Kockott, Parra,
Tales, Lopez,
Bastareaud, Fofana, Lamerat,
Guitoune, Huget, Nakaitaci, Thomas,
Dulin, Spedding.

Despite an underwhelming performance against Scotland I wouldn't expect many changes.

vienne86

thomond2006 wrote: »

Heaslip and Sexton in, otherwise I don't see any changes. If Fitzgerald and Earls weren't considered for Italy I don't see why they would be brought in against France. The performances in the Pro12 weekend in two weeks might push Schmidt for changes but I don't see any changes outside of obvious ones for France.

I think you're right about just those two changes for next week. And I suspect that we are all pretty well agreed that those will be the only two changes, barring illness/injury. It'll be interesting to see who is released for the Pro12 next weekend.

CIARAN_BOYLE

thomond2006 wrote: »

Heaslip and Sexton in, otherwise I don't see any changes. If Fitzgerald and Earls weren't considered for Italy I don't see why they would be brought in against France. The performances in the Pro12 weekend in two weeks might push Schmidt for changes but I don't see any changes outside of obvious ones for France.

Well earls looked out of gas at the end of 80 minutes for the wolfhounds maybe it was felt that an extra week will have himmin better shape.

bilston

With Sexton and Heaslip back I think we will push our performance to another level.

I'm pretty confident to be honest for some reason. I think we will take them by about 10.

phog

With POM being subbed yesterday, has Joe decided to go with POM, SOB and Heaslip as his backrow next week.

I think the only changes we can be sure of, if we can be sure of anyone returning from injury are Heaslip & Sexton, he might risk SOB, when he didn't use Earls or Fitz yesterday then I can't see him use them next Saturday. Ross did nothing wrong yesterday to suggest he won't start next week.

Hard to know will Joe drop Keatley or Madigan and which of Murphy or TOD, both TOD and Jordi played the full 80 yesterday and both played well.

thomond2006

phog wrote: »

With POM being subbed yesterday, has Joe decided to go with POM, SOB and Heaslip as his backrow next week.

I think the only changes we can be sure of, if we can be sure of anyone returning from injury are Heaslip & Sexton, he might risk SOB, when he didn't use Earls or Fitz yesterday then I can't see him use them next Saturday. Ross did nothing wrong yesterday to suggest he won't start next week.

Hard to know will Joe drop Keatley or Madigan and which of Murphy or TOD, both TOD and Jordi played the full 80 yesterday and both played well.

I think POM got a knock and then played through it before getting taken off? Open to correction...

rrpc

It's always hard to predict what Joe will do, especially this year where he said he wants to use more players. If it was up to me, I'd start Cronin and obviously Heaslip and Sexton but I'd leave SOB on the bench for a thirty minute run in the second half. I'd like to see Fitz with Henshaw but otherwise leave the team alone.

phog

thomond2006 wrote: »

I think POM got a knock and then played through it before getting taken off? Open to correction...

He certainly got a knock but did it warrant him being replaced also Diack was the only unused sub.

Flipper22

phog wrote: »

He certainly got a knock but did it warrant him being replaced also Diack was the only unused sub.

He got a stinger, best to be cautious with next week in mind given that he's the only back row who'll definitely start on Saturday. It was probably the intention for him to come off anyway though.

Just going from memory here but I don't think it's unusual for POM to get subbed off, seems to happen a fair bit?

In the backrow Heaslip has to come back in. Not sure about SOB tbh, if he'd played this weekend would say yeah definitely, but throwing him in cold against France just doesn't seem like a good idea.

Swiwi.

thomond2006 wrote: »

Squad for Ireland:
Ben Arous, Debaty, Mas, Slimani, Atonio,
Kayser, Guirado,
Maestri, Papé, Suta, Taofifenua,
Dusautoir, Chouly, Goujon, Le Roux, Lauret, Nyanga

Kockott, Parra,
Tales, Lopez,
Bastareaud, Fofana, Lamerat,
Guitoune, Huget, Nakaitaci, Thomas,
Dulin, Spedding.

Despite an underwhelming performance against Scotland I wouldn't expect many changes.

I've given up trying to discern a pattern in PSA's selections, players seem to go in and out of fashion, he must have used 60+ players to date in his tenure I reckon. What happened to Gael Fickou - is he injured?

Podge_irl

SOB will either start or not feature in the 23 I imagine. Schmidt has used the logic before (and i agree) that if there are fitness concerns with a player it's better to have them start so you can yank them off when needs be rather then have them on the bench where they may need to come on early and end up gassed.

phog

Is today a rest day for the squad or will we get a squad update?

During the game on Saturday, RTE said Reddan, Heaslip, Sexton and Healy were all fit for next week. Sexton & Heaslip will surely start, Reddan will probably get the bench spot ahead of Boss. Will Healy feature or will he play with Leinster, to me he seems to be laid off too long to be considered for an International game without some recent rugby under his belt.

galwaylad14

I just hope we actually try to play a bit of rugby this time and not the total muck we seen out in Rome last weekend, I think we may need to be a little more ambitious against France in any case though if we want to breach their defence.

Schmidt's results have been top class since he took over but the ultra conservative style he's got us playing can be dull enough to watch at times in fairness. I know you need to be pragmatic and obviously winning is the most important thing but I'd love to see is being more adventurous.

sydthebeat

There a huge difference between being conservative and being clinical.

I have absolutely no problem with the way we are playing. I think people have high light reels of Leinsters famous victories running around in their heads and thinking we played like that all the time.

Rugby is a battle, you need to physically match up against your opponents in order to beat them. That's means taking the ball into contact and recycling. You cannot off load out of the tackle every single time and when you do it must be perfect our you get what we got against Australia with their first try last year
We cannot be 100% all the time do as long as we are not making silly mistakes and are playing with a clear defined game plan im happy.

Remember this was Italy's heaviest opening day defeat in 6 years.

Quint2010

aimee1 wrote: »

Foley, Ryan and Tuohy are out. Not sure what the situation is with McCarthy so cant see Henderson starting if we have no 2nd row cover on the bench.

I would like to see more then the obvious changes, Fitz at 13 for example, but dont see it happening

If Henderson starts at 6 and gets injured POM switches over and we bring on back row replacement. If POC or Toner gets injured Henderson switches and we bring on that same back row replacement. I think Henderson is made for this game.

total former

Swiwi. wrote: »

I've given up trying to discern a pattern in PSA's selections, players seem to go in and out of fashion, he must have used 60+ players to date in his tenure I reckon. What happened to Gael Fickou - is he injured?

Fickou is just not favoured, he was in the extended squad for the Scotland game but was cut again. Lamerat has been in great form this season but I'd be shocked if PSA didn't stick with Fofana and Bastareaud.

(Fickou is still only 20 of course)

Quint2010

Do people really think SOB has a chance of being fit for this game? Hamstring are notorious and his facial expression said it all...

flangemeistro

Quint2010 wrote: »

Do people really think SOB has a chance of being fit for this game? Hamstring are notorious and his facial expression said it all...

I'm not sure if it was a fully torn hamstring, I heard one of the commentators afterwards saying he could have started but they didn't want to risk him.
To me I think O'Briens inclusion in the starting 15 after being out for such an extended period was a bad choice and must have been a real blow to O'Donnell's and Diacks confidence, I know O'Brien is a beast and is in a league of his own but when you hear so much about Schmidt's support system and the way they can lose the most influential of players and still play to their full potential then I wonder about the O'Brien inclusion.

Utah_Saint

flangemeistro wrote: »

I'm not sure if it was a fully torn hamstring, I heard one of the commentators afterwards saying he could have started but they didn't want to risk him.
To me I think O'Briens inclusion in the starting 15 after being out for such an extended period was a bad choice and must have been a real blow to O'Donnell's and Diacks confidence, I know O'Brien is a beast and is in a league of his own but when you hear so much about Schmidt's support system and the way they can lose the most influential of players and still play to their full potential then I wonder about the O'Brien inclusion.

If O'Brien is fit he has to start. Even when He hasn't had much rugby. He's just that important/good.

I def think we should start Henderson in this game. We desperately need his physicality. POM can easily switch to 7

aimee1

Quint2010 wrote: »

If Henderson starts at 6 and gets injured POM switches over and we bring on back row replacement. If POC or Toner gets injured Henderson switches and we bring on that same back row replacement. I think Henderson is made for this game.

POC is 35, how many times can he go 80 at this level?

Henderson is only just back after injury, and we have seen with SOB, can we afford to take such a risk?

We need specialist 2nd row cover on the bench IMO and I would be very surprised if JS didnt see it that way either.

Hamstrings can be a disaster if you tear them, but if it was just a twinge (he got straight up and was walking) you would be amazed how quick it can heal.

Put it this way, you can twinge a hamstring on a Saturday and with neurofen on a Sunday not even notice it.

vienne86

Swiwi. wrote: »

I've given up trying to discern a pattern in PSA's selections, players seem to go in and out of fashion, he must have used 60+ players to date in his tenure I reckon. What happened to Gael Fickou - is he injured?

The one I can't fathom is Parra. I don't get it that he doesn't start. I think he is great at directing things - they refer to him as the little general. OK, he's probably a right little bo****ks, and PSA might not like him, but for heaven's sake, it's the national team.

Utah_Saint

What are our other options at Lock? Outside of those who are already in the match day squad..

CIARAN_BOYLE

Utah_Saint wrote: »

What are our other options at Lock? Outside of those who are already in the match day squad..

Michael Kearney would probably be next given injuries to McCarthy, Tuohy, Foley and Ryan.

thomond2006

vienne86 wrote: »

The one I can't fathom is Parra. I don't get it that he doesn't start. I think he is great at directing things - they refer to him as the little general. OK, he's probably a right little bo****ks, and PSA might not like him, but for heaven's sake, it's the national team.

That's the problem. Unfortunately for France Rory Kockott isn't the same player who was untouchable two seasons ago. Playing in a struggling team can't help.

Utah_Saint

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Michael Kearney would probably be next given injuries to McCarthy, Tuohy, Foley and Ryan.

does he normally partner Muldowney or Roux?

Just looking for options so we can free up Henderson for 6

vienne86

flangemeistro wrote: »

I'm not sure if it was a fully torn hamstring, I heard one of the commentators afterwards saying he could have started but they didn't want to risk him.
To me I think O'Briens inclusion in the starting 15 after being out for such an extended period was a bad choice and must have been a real blow to O'Donnell's and Diacks confidence, I know O'Brien is a beast and is in a league of his own but when you hear so much about Schmidt's support system and the way they can lose the most influential of players and still play to their full potential then I wonder about the O'Brien inclusion.

Joe said in interview that the hamstring was just a twinge, and SOB could actually have played, but they decided not to risk it. I would be surprised if he is picked to start on Saturday. The real problem is lock. As another poster said, we can't expect POC and Toner to play 80 in every match. And IMHO, POC is not quite the force he used to be.

vienne86

thomond2006 wrote: »

That's the problem. Unfortunately for France Rory Kockott isn't the same player who was untouchable two seasons ago. Playing in a struggling team can't help.

PSA defies logic. The French fans must be going mad. On Saturday it was clear that Scotland had nothing like the amount of talent France had on the team, but they were well coached, and put down a marker.....they'll be a banana skin for someone, and I hope it isn't us. France had lots of talent, but their organisation......

total former

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Michael Kearney would probably be next given injuries to McCarthy, Tuohy, Foley and Ryan.

McCarthy is surely fit again though? He was kept in the squad after the Wolfhounds game so I'd say his concussion was mild enough.

CIARAN_BOYLE

total former wrote: »

McCarthy is surely fit again though? He was kept in the squad after the Wolfhounds game so I'd say his concussion was mild enough.

I dunno, I'll never make a judgement on a concussion. assume injured till the doctors tell him he can come back.

total former

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

I dunno, I'll never make a judgement on a concussion. assume injured till the doctors tell him he can come back.

Yeah obviously, but it looked innocuous enough at the time. Of course, he also got concussed in the Georgia game so it might be an ongoing thing.

Can't see anyone else being brought in though, Henderson will continue to bench I'd say.

.ak

total former wrote: »

Fickou is just not favoured, he was in the extended squad for the Scotland game but was cut again. Lamerat has been in great form this season but I'd be shocked if PSA didn't stick with Fofana and Bastareaud.

(Fickou is still only 20 of course)

It's a pity though as Fofana + Fickou would be awesome. I thought he was brilliant for Toulouse in recent games.

Quint2010

aimee1 wrote: »

POC is 35, how many times can he go 80 at this level?

Henderson is only just back after injury, and we have seen with SOB, can we afford to take such a risk?

We need specialist 2nd row cover on the bench IMO and I would be very surprised if JS didnt see it that way either.

Why? If POC goes off then Henderson goes to 5 and we bring on our back row sub.

CIARAN_BOYLE

total former wrote: »

Yeah obviously, but it looked innocuous enough at the time. Of course, he also got concussed in the Georgia game so it might be an ongoing thing.

Can't see anyone else being brought in though, Henderson will continue to bench I'd say.

and the previous February an osprey stomped on his face.

Thats three concussions in just over a year. Innocuous enough but I can't see the doctors just shrugging it off.

With the injuries in place I can't see anyone being added to the squad.

.ak

Don't think the Ospreys one resulted in concussion, not sure though.

total former

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

and the previous February an osprey stomped on his face.

Thats three concussions in just over a year. Innocuous enough but I can't see the doctors just shrugging it off.

With the injuries in place I can't see anyone being added to the squad.

Don't think he got concussed against Ospreys, just really badly cut.

CIARAN_BOYLE

total former wrote: »

Don't think he got concussed against Ospreys, just really badly cut.

I thought he suffered a concussion as well the cuts during that incident.