Wild-flower meadow for bees compatible with small sheep-herd?

Chisler2

Any advice welcome on whether fairly-rich wild-flower meadow (go give my intended bee-colonies a boost) is compatible with raising a specialist sheep-herd for wool (rather than meat) production? Have a long-term memory of being told in childhood that sheep preferred (?) poorer fare, grasses etc. True or false?

Capercaille

I have 25 acres of coastal machair. Mixed wildflower/grass meadow. Soil index 1. Last year fertilised with 75kg/acre with 0-0-50 and cut sward 50kg/acre. One cut of silage on September 14th. Aftermath grazing with sheep at 0.5 LSU from October to December 25th. Rank areas were grazed with cattle at 0.5 LSU as well

I have large amounts of knapweed/red clover which are beneficial to Great yellow bumblebees which are present on the farm. I assume they would be useful to honeybees as well.

Chisler2

Capercaille wrote: »

I have 25 acres of coastal machair. Mixed wildflower/grass meadow. Soil index 1. Last year fertilised with 75kg/acre with 0-0-50 and cut sward 50kg/acre. One cut of silage on September 14th. Aftermath grazing with sheep at 0.5 LSU from October to December 25th. Rank areas were grazed with cattle at 0.5 LSU as well

I have large amounts of knapweed/red clover which are beneficial to Great yellow bumblebees which are present on the farm. I assume they would be useful to honeybees as well.

Sounds beautiful as well as productive, Capercaille! Would you explain the "technical" references as I'm a newcomer to this........townie-turned-farmer. Is machaire a very specific, sandy soil? Mine is south-facing, steeply-sloped shale with thin layer of poor soil for the most part, with a couple of soggy acres where the slope levels out. I thought of using these latter for willow which would be coppiced to produce fuel for my own use. More detail of number of sheep which could be supported per acre etc. would be exciting..........and thank you so much for the above response.

ihatewinter

As it is a poor sod, it may only support 2-3 sheep per acre and if it is really bad maybe only 1.5 sheep per acre.

What type of sheep are you considering keeping. If the land is very poor, you'll have a long winter of feeding. Will they be worth keeping for wool, wool is worthless as you won't be selling lambs off ewes.

If you do keep sheep make sure you have excellent fencing.

Capercaille

Chisler2 wrote: »

Sounds beautiful as well as productive, Capercaille! Would you explain the "technical" references as I'm a newcomer to this........townie-turned-farmer. Is machaire a very specific, sandy soil? Mine is south-facing, steeply-sloped shale with thin layer of poor soil for the most part, with a couple of soggy acres where the slope levels out. I thought of using these latter for willow which would be coppiced to produce fuel for my own use. More detail of number of sheep which could be supported per acre etc. would be exciting..........and thank you so much for the above response.

Capercaille wrote: »

I have 25 acres of coastal machair. Mixed wildflower/grass meadow. Soil index 1. Last year fertilised with 75kg/acre with 0-0-50 and cut sward 50kg/acre. One cut of silage on September 14th. Aftermath grazing with sheep at 0.5 LSU from October to December 25th. Rank areas were grazed with cattle at 0.5 LSU as well

I have large amounts of knapweed/red clover which are beneficial to Great yellow bumblebees which are present on the farm. I assume they would be useful to honeybees as well.

A link to explain Machair
http://www.teagasc.ie/environment/Publications/BirdWatch/MachairSandyGrassland-TeagascBirdWatchIrelandleaflet.pdf
Soil index 1 is a level of soil fertility (very low). You can test the soil to determine the fertility. Main elements you check are Nirogen Phosphorous Potassium (NPK). 0-0-50 would basically be a fertilser with high Potassium. Cut sward would be a fertilser with 24-2.5-10 (ratios of NPK). You can also check for the Lime content of your land.

You will need to determine fertility to see how much sheep you're land could hold. Perhaps post up pictures of the land on main farming/sheep farming section. I'm not expert on sheep. I just use them for aftergrazing after silage is cut. This prevents the grass from becoming too rank for next seasons growth. 1 lowland ewe would be the equivalent to 0.2 LSU (livestock unit). I have very low stocking densities at 1 ewe per acre for 2 months in winter.

Capercaille

Some photos.






https://clyp.it/ojptdaap My Corncrake from last year. The farm is managed for corncrake.

Chisler2

ihatewinter wrote: »

As it is a poor sod, it may only support 2-3 sheep per acre and if it is really bad maybe only 1.5 sheep per acre.

What type of sheep are you considering keeping. If the land is very poor, you'll have a long winter of feeding. Will they be worth keeping for wool, wool is worthless as you won't be selling lambs off ewes.

If you do keep sheep make sure you have excellent fencing.

Hello I-H-W.............I am spinning and weaving and have a notion to produce and shear wool to feed my "habit"/feed my insatiable loom! Presently only at the "research phase" and learning skills from American spinners and weavers, including native (reservation) Navajo women in New Mexico who are shephards of (mainly Churro breed) flocks. From what I've read, the indigenous Irish breeds of sheep (up to around the Bill of 1699 passed by the English Parliament to destroy the Irish wool-trade) produced first-class wool (four million thriving sheep in 1672) of which Sir William Temple wrote in 1673 "The wool of Ireland seems not to be capable of any increase nor to suffer under any defect, the country being generally full stockt with sheep, clear of wolves.....the considerable flocks being of English breed and the staple of wool generally equal with that of Northampton or Leicestershire.........".

If that was so "back in the day", I assume I could develop a stock of Galway or Soay which would be happy in Mayo, and which might - according to what I've read (don't have any practical experience!) produce beautiful and useable wool. I would love to see/be a part of, reintroduction of these crafts to the west of Ireland, and eager for all and every advice and information. Small number per acre is not (I believe?!) a difficulty; I've got around 15 acres. There are sturdy dry-stone walls separating fields, so no need to build fences............though the neighbours' sheep are unimaginably acrobatic and have no problem with 6' high obstacles!!!!!

Chisler2

Capercaille wrote: »

A link to explain Machair
http://www.teagasc.ie/environment/Publications/BirdWatch/MachairSandyGrassland-TeagascBirdWatchIrelandleaflet.pdf
Soil index 1 is a level of soil fertility (very low). You can test the soil to determine the fertility. Main elements you check are Nirogen Phosphorous Potassium (NPK). 0-0-50 would basically be a fertilser with high Potassium. Cut sward would be a fertilser with 24-2.5-10 (ratios of NPK). You can also check for the Lime content of your land.

You will need to determine fertility to see how much sheep you're land could hold. Perhaps post up pictures of the land on main farming/sheep farming section. I'm not expert on sheep. I just use them for aftergrazing after silage is cut. This prevents the grass from becoming too rank for next seasons growth. 1 lowland ewe would be the equivalent to 0.2 LSU (livestock unit). I have very low stocking densities at 1 ewe per acre for 2 months in winter.

Thank you C'caile. Having no previous experience of uploading images to Boards this might take a little while...........so more later! Meanwhile my gratitude for this help and information to get me on the right road.

ganmo

soya sheep are small little yolks
Galway were a breed that were mainly used for their wool (thats why they're so unpopular now)
Jabobs are ment to have fine wool
scotch/horny/blackface mountain have poor wool

Lamb wool is finer than adult wool

What I think might be a good way for you to work is to buy ewe lambs shear them the following summer and sell as hoggats. this will give you the heaviest fleece to work with



in terms of flowers, sheep don't eat daffodils

Chisler2

ganmo wrote: »

soya sheep are small little yolks
Galway were a breed that were mainly used for their wool (thats why they're so unpopular now)
Jabobs are ment to have fine wool
scotch/horny/blackface mountain have poor wool

Lamb wool is finer than adult wool

What I think might be a good way for you to work is to buy ewe lambs shear them the following summer and sell as hoggats. this will give you the heaviest fleece to work with



in terms of flowers, sheep don't eat daffodils

Ganmo - thank you for that. Yes - I've spun and woven Jacobs, Border and Blue-Face Leicester and Lincoln Cross wool and they are all suitable, and that the wool of the local sheep bred for meat is not so easy to work with and not ideal for cloth-yarn........but I shall be making one-off large fine-art wall-hangings so the softness required for garments does not apply. I do need yarn of a staple which can be worked with.

Would Blue-faced and Border Leicester, Lincoln Jacobs and other heritage breeds - English wool-sheep generally - thrive in Mayo..........is my question, and if richer grazing is good for their general well-being and wool-quality/quantity.

Your last observation - about daffodils - is helpful and I know some flowering plants are poisonous to livestock.

Capercaille

Chisler2 wrote: »

Ganmo - thank you for that. Yes - I've spun and woven Jacobs, Border and Blue-Face Leicester and Lincoln Cross wool and they are all suitable, and that the wool of the local sheep bred for meat is not so easy to work with and not ideal for cloth-yarn........but I shall be making one-off large fine-art wall-hangings so the softness required for garments does not apply. I do need yarn of a staple which can be worked with.

Would Blue-faced and Border Leicester, Lincoln Jacobs and other heritage breeds - English wool-sheep generally - thrive in Mayo..........is my question, and if richer grazing is good for their general well-being and wool-quality/quantity.

Your last observation - about daffodils - is helpful and I know some flowering plants are poisonous to livestock.

In general if sheep in good health then the quality of the wool will be good. Sheep in poor health and not thriving will have poor quality wool.
Daffodils although poisonous are not palitable to sheep and will only eat them if they are starved.

Chisler2

C'caille - One of the local nurseries can supply wildflower mix but could not confirm if they are "sustainably sourced". What is the best way/source of meadow-flowers?

Capercaille

Chisler2 wrote: »

C'caille - One of the local nurseries can supply wildflower mix but could not confirm if they are "sustainably sourced". What is the best way/source of meadow-flowers?

This is a good site for wildflower mixes. They sell seeds that are of Irish strains. The soil sample would be helpful here also, to get species which would best suit your soil fertility/type.

One species which is great is yellow rattle. My meadows are full of it. It parasitizes fast growing species and allows slow grasses/wild flowers to grow. It is the second photo down in my photos.

Chisler2

Capercaille wrote: »

This is a good site for wildflower mixes. They sell seeds that are of Irish strains. The soil sample would be helpful here also, to get species which would best suit your soil fertility/type.

One species which is great is yellow rattle. My meadows are full of it. It parasitizes fast growing species and allows slow grasses/wild flowers to grow. It is the second photo down in my photos.

Very useful information C'caille. The land is sandstone and shall to Lower Palaezoic with bedrock of Silurian Metasediments and Volcanics with torrents flowing north to south and apart from a couple of damp acres at the bottom - adjacent to bohereen - where existing drains need to be redug, land is well-drained.

I've never seen a corncrake so went to Wikipedia and found John Clare's:- "Tis like a fancy everywhere/A sort of living doubt" - sublime representation of an elusive bird. The "Clyp" recording is useful and I will listen now for this call..........and search for yellow-rattle and flag-iris (would be helpful if you could PM me supplier, if you get a moment!). The fields were tilled in the distant past, potato-furrows apparent when the sun is low in the west. Given the steep slope and presence of shale and rock any cutting would have to be manual not mechanical so when established it would be a safe environment for species such as corncrake. It is a pleasing thought that a "bee-loud glade" and habitat for scarce species could be realised with a bit of work and I appreciate your time and knowledge towards that.

Capercaille

Chisler2 wrote: »

Very useful information C'caille. The land is sandstone and shall to Lower Palaezoic with bedrock of Silurian Metasediments and Volcanics with torrents flowing north to south and apart from a couple of damp acres at the bottom - adjacent to bohereen - where existing drains need to be redug, land is well-drained.

I've never seen a corncrake so went to Wikipedia and found John Clare's:- "Tis like a fancy everywhere/A sort of living doubt" - sublime representation of an elusive bird. The "Clyp" recording is useful and I will listen now for this call..........and search for yellow-rattle and flag-iris (would be helpful if you could PM me supplier, if you get a moment!). The fields were tilled in the distant past, potato-furrows apparent when the sun is low in the west. Given the steep slope and presence of shale and rock any cutting would have to be manual not mechanical so when established it would be a safe environment for species such as corncrake. It is a pleasing thought that a "bee-loud glade" and habitat for scarce species could be realised with a bit of work and I appreciate your time and knowledge towards that.

http://www20.gencat.cat/estatics/PalauRobert/RutesCat/pdf/733-La%20Mola%20summit,%20Garraf%20viewpoint-Angles.pdf
This is the link for the wildflowers, i never added it.
Where is Mayo are you? A coastal location? To attract corncrake you would need to be near breeding birds. Iris beds/nettle beds/umbellifers are good for attacting Corncrake.
Yellow iris is easily sourced. I have dug up by hand around 700kg of iris rhizomes and transplanted them to farm. Any damp corner in fields would have them . Just ask the landowner and they will say dig away.

Chisler2

700Kg of flag-iris!!! There will be no need for gym-membership when this game begins The nettles did not wait for starter's orders.

I'm between Westport and Louisburg, behind The Reek adjacent to Lug, which is predominantly commonage so a good spot for shy birds.

Your link is to a hike in French mountains. No urgency but if you get the chance at some stage the nursery details would be useful.

Capercaille

Chisler2 wrote: »

700Kg of flag-iris!!! There will be no need for gym-membership when this game begins The nettles did not wait for starter's orders.

I'm between Westport and Louisburg, behind The Reek adjacent to Lug, which is predominantly commonage so a good spot for shy birds.

Your link is to a hike in French mountains. No urgency but if you get the chance at some stage the nursery details would be useful.

http://www.wildflowers.ie/
Louisburg area can hold Corncrakes.

Chisler2

Capercaille wrote: »

http://www.wildflowers.ie/
Louisburg area can hold Corncrakes.

Many thanks Cc!