Bidding on a house

leahyl

Hi all,

Currently have an offer in on a house which is absolutely the "perfect" house for me. It only went on the market on Monday though. Anyway, the auctioneer has come back to me and said that while the sellers appreciate the offer they are not willing to accept it as they want a higher amount. I'm obviously not going to bid against myself so I am going to wait until another offer comes in, which no doubt it will because the house is immaculate. The only thing is, it is in an area of Cork which would perhaps be seen as not as desirable as other areas but where it is is a good area because I know it well.

My question is, how likely in this climate is it that the house would go for more than asking price. It's slightly above what I can afford which is why I bid lower but also I don't think because of the address that they will get the asking price but at the same time you wouldn't know with the lack of supply at the moment and the condition the house is in.

Will the new mortgage rules have any effect on people bidding over the 220k mark??

I'm just REALLY interested in this house and I don't want to let it go but I have convinced myself that I'm going to be disappointed yet again because I'm used to it at this stage

Thanks

Desmonddoyle

There is no answer to this as every house sale is dependent on how many people want to buy, and for how much, at any particular time. The important thing is
1) you need to stick to what you can afford, regardless of any emotional response to a house.
2) waiting it out 'could' save you a large amount of money. If no other offers come in, you are in a much better position and they might find themselves in a position where they will be biting your hand off.
If other offers come in, you probably would have been out bid anyway, and it saves you over paying for a house, which you could end up regretting.

Buyers wont be able to get as much cash now, so in theory, the pool of buyers should be less, and the amount they are willing to pay should be less. It should be shifting back towards a buyers market, but this is Ireland, so who knows.

sKeith

leahyl wrote: »

I'm obviously not going to bid against myself so I am going to wait until another offer comes in,

Nobody told me that was a no no, before i went house hunting.
I made a bid below asking, vendor wanted more, i offered 5k more and it was accepted.

I wanted the house, there was no other bidders. I was willing to spend another 5k and it got me the house and made vendor happy enough to accept.

leahyl

Desmonddoyle wrote: »

There is no answer to this as every house sale is dependent on how many people want to buy, and for how much, at any particular time. The important thing is
1) you need to stick to what you can afford, regardless of any emotional response to a house.
2) waiting it out 'could' save you a large amount of money. If no other offers come in, you are in a much better position and they might find themselves in a position where they will be biting your hand off.
If other offers come in, you probably would have been out bid anyway, and it saves you over paying for a house, which you could end up regretting.

Buyers wont be able to get as much cash now, so in theory, the pool of buyers should be less, and the amount they are willing to pay should be less. It should be shifting back towards a buyers market, but this is Ireland, so who knows.

This is what I mean, people are getting antsy now and with the lack of property around the price range I'm thinking, whenever something comes up that is decent and is fairly well priced, then there is normally huge interest. I've booked a second viewing and agent told me that there are already 2 viewings booked before me on the same day so we'll see - still no other offer, not that I've been informed of anyway.

leahyl

sKeith wrote: »

Nobody told me that was a no no, before i went house hunting.
I made a bid below asking, vendor wanted more, i offered 5k more and it was accepted.

I wanted the house, there was no other bidders. I was willing to spend another 5k and it got me the house and made vendor happy enough to accept.

Thanks, I am willing to offer more but I don't want to just keep upping the price myself with no other offers in. But I get where you are coming from too, someone else could come in and offer way more than me and then I'd have to drop out anyway. This is so frustrating.

Some people on this forum might remember me posting over the last few years about buying - still haven't found anything and it's getting beyond heart breaking at this stage. This the first house I have seen that ticks all the boxes.

Bob24

One thing to keep in mind: never believe what the estate agent tells you with regards to the position of the seller.

They might tell you things like "they are in a rush and if you offer the asking price by the end of the week you can secure the house" already knowing that they actually want to use your offer to pressure someone else to place a higher bid.

desertcircus

leahyl wrote: »

This is what I mean, people are getting antsy now and with the lack of property around the price range I'm thinking, whenever something comes up that is decent and is fairly well priced, then there is normally huge interest. I've booked a second viewing and agent told me that there are already 2 viewings booked before me on the same day so we'll see - still no other offer, not that I've been informed of anyway.

If it's feasible, I'd suggest heading there fairly early to see if there actually are two other viewings.

TheDriver

Can I ask OP what you consider not a good address? Also depends on price and affordability, big mansion in boherbue wont get much interest compared to 3 bed in mount oval

mel.b

sKeith wrote: »

Nobody told me that was a no no, before i went house hunting.
I made a bid below asking, vendor wanted more, i offered 5k more and it was accepted.

I wanted the house, there was no other bidders. I was willing to spend another 5k and it got me the house and made vendor happy enough to accept.

leahyl wrote: »

Thanks, I am willing to offer more but I don't want to just keep upping the price myself with no other offers in.

Some people on this forum might remember me posting over the last few years about buying - still haven't found anything and it's getting beyond heart breaking at this stage. This the first house I have seen that ticks all the boxes.

It happened the same for me as for sKeith. Made a low ball offer which I knew wouldn't be accepted , they came back and said 'no'. Waited a week, upped my offer and gradually we moved towards an acceptable price for both parties. I didn't and don't see it as bidding against myself but rather a negotiation to find a point where you are both happy. You're not going to offer more than you think it's worth either way and you have less chance of getting into a bidding war with another party who may have deeper pockets than you.

I remember your other posts and if you are finding it heartbreaking and this house actually does tick all the boxes, then really, why are you waiting?

etymon

We put an offer in on a house and said it's there til Friday evening 5pm… then we are bidding on another property… we got the house alright! That was in Dublin about 3 months ago when things were mental so we had to play tough ;-)

leahyl

TheDriver wrote: »

Can I ask OP what you consider not a good address? Also depends on price and affordability, big mansion in boherbue wont get much interest compared to 3 bed in mount oval

Ok well there aren't many houses for sale in the area so I don't want to give away where it is but let's just say that the address might be seen by some people as being a troubled area just by the name, when in fact where the house is its bordering on another area and is actually rather quiet. I'm just not sure if people still think the same way about certain areas. It's all very cryptic! Anyway, I guess time will tell whether it's meant for me or not! I hate waiting! Fingers crossed!

Supercell

Leahyl, I would just wait. If a higher offer comes along no doubt you will be the first to know by the estate agent. The test though is whether you believe the higher offer or not! Such is the non transparent nature of house bidding in this country and in my opinion a major reason for the boom/bust we Irish seem to love so much.
FWIW i think we are in for price carnage again in the near future, bid what you think its worth and be prepared to stick to your guns. If it sounds like a phantom bidder against you just say thanks and advise the agent that should that bid fall though you are still interested at your current offer.

April 73

It's impossible to strategise buying a house in this country because of the system.

We bid less than the asking price on a house last year which ticked a lot of our boxes. It wasn't accepted. We attempted to find out if there was a price that the vendor wanted & to see if we could agree on it. No go. The EA told us the vendor wanted to see how the market played out. So we said fine & waited for several weeks with nothing happening. Then another bidder appeared & bettered our offer. Then they bettered their own offer before we even responded in a bid to get the vendor to bite. I thought it was a joke when the EA told me they had upped their own offer.
After a couple of days we offered more which they then matched. We were told they were FTB with no house to sell whereas we had to sell. I was a bit dubious about this other bidder & said we'd leave our bid on the table & it would be up to the vendor to choose. We debated it over the weekend & decided to make one last offer with an extra €5k but told the EA that it was our absolute max & if that wasn't accepted we were happy to step back & wait for another house. It was accepted.

You can run all the possibilities through your head a million times & it's impossible to know if there are other bidders, what way they will play it if they exist, what their max might be etc etc. it's a terrible system with no transparency at all.

TheDriver

don't forget the bid book............about as transparent as a boarded up window.
However a good few EAs are not playing games about other bidders but simply saying they want more money........which in effect is not bidding against yourself but upping your offer to get the house

DrBass

Ask to have a second viewing - Bring somebody with you - if the house needs work of any kind bring a trades man or DIY Brother/Father. Ask EA where is the vendors sweet spot in terms of selling price.

Call EA within a couple of days with your revised offer.

Inform him at this stage that you are anxious to close asap. Say that you can give him a cheque for the deposit now, and you can send him your AIP by email (with loan amount blanked out obviously)

This shows you are serious and not wasting time.

Have the set amount that you are willing to pay and what you think the house is worth, and increase your offers slightly until you get to this point.

cpoh1

April 73 wrote: »

It's impossible to strategise buying a house in this country because of the system.

You mean people not the system i presume? Buying a house is a lottery in every country because ultimately you are at the mercy of your fellow punters. Want a house nobody else is interested in? You are the one in control. Want to buy a house with 5 other buyers also looking? It'll go to the person who has the most money to spend.

um7y1h83ge06nx

Don't forget that the system can allow non existent phantom bidders too. Granted if you're bidding against a phantom bidder you'll probably still get the house but will pay more than necessary for it.

Bob24

cpoh1 wrote: »

You mean people not the system i presume? Buying a house is a lottery in every country because ultimately you are at the mercy of your fellow punters. Want a house nobody else is interested in? You are the one in control. Want to buy a house with 5 other buyers also looking? It'll go to the person who has the most money to spend.

In sane countries though, EAs are not allowed tu run auctions where you don't even know if the people you are bidding against even exist. Also, it is clear that someone who is offering the asking price gets the property with no further discussion, which prevents sellers from advertising low prices to lure as many people as possible into this a bidding war.

Two systemic differences that would indeed make it much easier to plan.

BabySlam

etymon wrote: »

We put an offer in on a house and said it's there til Friday evening 5pm… then we are bidding on another property… we got the house alright! That was in Dublin about 3 months ago when things were mental so we had to play tough ;-)

exactly what i did over a year ago with success also - offered close to (-5k)asking.

cpoh1

Bob24 wrote: »

In sane countries though, EAs are not allowed tu run auctions where you don't even know if the people you are bidding against even exist, and someone who is offering the asking price gets the property with no further discussion.

Two systemic differences that would indeed make it much easier to plan.

Phantom bidders are irrelevant though, and personally from experience I dont believe they exist. Any house I was suspicious about always backed up the EA on the price register afterwards.

Regardless you are still at the mercy of other potential buyers if you want to buy any house in this country. You will only get it if you are the one willing to pay the most money for it. The system doesn't stop you buying a house, other people do.

leahyl - my advice, take it nice and handy. Dont show the EA you are too keen. Dotn respond immediately if someone makes a counteroffer. EA's can smell desperation and I would be worried you are showing him all your cards!

cpoh1

BabySlam wrote: »

exactly what i did over a year ago with success also - offered close to (-5k)asking.

This only works when you have the upper hand with demand. No demand and desperate seller and a time limit works. If there is lots of interest and its early in the process an EA will laugh a timelimit bid out the door unless its well over asking.

This is not great advice for the OP when the house is only up for sale a week. It means when they reject it she has lost all credibility if she comes back.

etymon

cpoh1 wrote: »

This only works when you have the upper hand with demand. No demand and desperate seller and a time limit works. If there is lots of interest and its early in the process an EA will laugh a timelimit bid out the door unless its well over asking.

This is not great advice for the OP when the house is only up for sale a week. It means when they reject it she has lost all credibility if she comes back.

True, we waited til the house was on the market about a month, there were two bidders at about 30k under so we put it in at 10k under and with the time limit they had to accept as other bidders couldn't be reached…. also I know the sellers needed cash for their own new house

leahyl

Thanks for the advice guys. Had a second viewing of the house last night and it looked even better this time! Anyway doesn't matter, because got a call from estate agent just now to say they got an offer of asking price and I can't go beyond that. Absolutely heartbroken....again

Woshy

leahyl wrote: »

Thanks for the advice guys. Had a second viewing of the house last night and it looked even better this time! Anyway doesn't matter, because got a call from estate agent just now to say they got an offer of asking price and I can't go beyond that. Absolutely heartbroken....again

So sorry to hear that fingers crossed you'll get something soon. House hunting is a stressful business!

leahyl

This was the first house I have seen in 3 years of looking that I really, really wanted. I'm sort of numb. Maybe a bit of an overreaction but that's how I feel.

Dr Strange

leahyl wrote: »

This was the first house I have seen in 3 years of looking that I really, really wanted. I'm sort of numb. Maybe a bit of an overreaction but that's how I feel.

Sorry to hear that, I know how that feels. Could you not just put in the same offer? You may be in a better position than the other bidder and the vendor may go with you instead if they think they can get to close quicker/easier with you? May be worth a shot and if someone then goes higher you know it is definitely not supposed to be.

April 73

Preusse wrote: »

Sorry to hear that, I know how that feels. Could you not just put in the same offer? You may be in a better position than the other bidder and the vendor may go with you instead if they think they can get to close quicker/easier with you? May be worth a shot and if someone then goes higher you know it is definitely not supposed to be.

That's true. Another bidder matched an offer we made on a house - they were a FTB while we needed to sell our house. They felt their bid might be looked on more positively.

If you have mortgage approval, proof of deposit funds it could be worth showing these to the EA (without showing him how much your approval is for) and matching the other offer. If it doesn't work & you are really at your limit say to the EA you're sorry not to have secured the house & if anything happens down the line with the successful bidder not being able to complete then please get in touch with you.

Don't despair - there's always another house out there at a price you are willing to pay.

Mr. Loverman

sKeith wrote: »

I made a bid below asking, vendor wanted more, i offered 5k more

April 73 wrote: »

decided to make one last offer with an extra €5k

etymon wrote: »

there were two bidders at about 30k under so we put it in at 10k under

Some absolutely bizarre posts above. Please don't take their advice.

I understand "200" is a big number, so adding a "5" seems small, but "5" is EUR 5,000. How many months do you have to save to have 5k in your bank?

Do not do any of this insanity like casually adding 5k to your bid. Add EUR 200.

And adding an extra 20k above the next highest bidder? Unbelievable.

ABajaninCork

leahyl wrote: »

This was the first house I have seen in 3 years of looking that I really, really wanted. I'm sort of numb. Maybe a bit of an overreaction but that's how I feel.

Not at all! I know how you feel. When I lost the flat I eventually bought, I cried for a week!! No matter how hard you try to be dispassionate about the process, feelings always get in the way...

When I bought my flat, we lost it due to the fact our vendor's property they were bidding on was about to be repossessed by the bank. Bank steamed in at the last minute asking for more money. Both sales fell through. But we asked the flat vendors to let us know if they wanted to sell again, as we were still interested. Nine months later, we got that call.

Maybe, you could leave a note with the EA saying if the sale falls thorough for any reason, then you'd like to be informed?

I agree with Mr L. Some people get so carried away with the bids, they lose the run of themselves (as you say here!) , blow the budget and forget when the bidding's over, they've still got to raise the extra deposit money, and pay the extra mortgage.

Don't worry - you'll get something you like very soon!

April 73

There are no hard & fast rules when it comes to bidding on a house.
We'd been looking for a year & had bid & been outbid on two previous houses when they went above our comfort zone.
To me adding €5,000 as a final offer worked out, because we secured the house we wanted, the vendor agreed to wait for us to sell our house & we got it for considerably less than what we had set as our limit for that house.
So yes, we have to pay €5,000 more - maybe we could have secured it by adding €200 more but I doubt it! The truth is who knows?

Mr. Loverman

April 73 wrote: »

So yes, we have to pay €5,000 more - maybe we could have secured it by adding €200 more but I doubt it! The truth is who knows?

Curious - why didn't you try?

leahyl

I did say that if anything happened that the sale didn't go through that I am still very much interested and would he come back to me and he said he would. I doubt anything will change but sure no harm in saying it anyway.

I never thought of matching their bid but it's too late now as I have already said that I'm "out"

April 73

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

Curious - why didn't you try?

The other bidder was a first time buyer who had matched our previous offer. We told the EA that our offer stood & it would be up to the vendor to decide between us. We mulled it over & decided that the house ticked 9.5 out of ten boxes for us at a price we were very comfortable with.
So in order to make us the more attractive proposition (with a house that still had to put on the market & sold) we felt we should offer the extra money as an incentive. We knew the house hadn't reached a price that the vendor was really happy with at that stage. We did say that would be as far as we would go & if the vendor didn't accept it we were happy then to walk away. Yes we could have offered a smaller bump up but if I was selling a house to a FTB or to someone who had to sell a house €200 or even a €1000 wouldn't provide an incentive. By offering a decent amount it bumped the price up to a point where the vendor felt they had extracted all there was to extract from the bidders.
You could say that we should have stayed firm over the weekend & let the cards fall where they would. Maybe we ended up paying €5000 more than we could have but we secured the house at a price that we were happy to pay - we had initially thought it would end up about €25,000 higher. I wouldn't have been so sanguine at that kind of money!

mel.b

leahyl wrote: »

Thanks for the advice guys. Had a second viewing of the house last night and it looked even better this time! Anyway doesn't matter, because got a call from estate agent just now to say they got an offer of asking price and I can't go beyond that. Absolutely heartbroken....again

Leahyl, i'm really sorry to hear this. Were you in a position to offer asking or not? This is where the strategy of 'not bidding against yourself' doesn't work. If you were able to afford asking you could have negiotated up to this and potentially have secured the house before the other party even saw it, rather than waiting for others. Maybe something to think about for next time?

leahyl

mel.b wrote: »

Leahyl, i'm really sorry to hear this. Were you in a position to offer asking or not? This is where the strategy of 'not bidding against yourself' doesn't work. If you were able to afford asking you could have negiotated up to this and potentially have secured the house before the other party even saw it, rather than waiting for others. Maybe something to think about for next time?

Yeah to be honest that was my plan but it didn't work out - I was prepared to go to asking cos it's in such good condition, but didn't get the chance. Thought maybe they'd start at 10k below asking and then I'd be able to bid more. Ah well, that's the way the cookie crumbles i guess

Dr Strange

I know you said that you're "out" to the EA but if this is really what you want why not go back and say that while you can't bid higher you thought about it and can at least match the offer? At least you won't be thinking "what if?" as you have thrown everything in and you never know, stranger things have happened, you may get it. And if not, at least you've tried your best. I don't think there's any shame in going back to the EA about it, even after saying you're out.

leahyl

Preusse wrote: »

I know you said that you're "out" to the EA but if this is really what you want why not go back and say that while you can't bid higher you thought about it and can at least match the offer? At least you won't be thinking "what if?" as you have thrown everything in and you never know, stranger things have happened, you may get it. And if not, at least you've tried your best. I don't think there's any shame in going back to the EA about it, even after saying you're out.

My mum said the exact same thing to me this morning! But I don't see how matching the price will make any difference. I'll try anyway, but sure he's probably informed the bidders that their bid has been accepted cos he wanted an answer from me yesterday

Ok, just sent an email saying that I could match the other bidders offer of asking price and that I understand that he has probably informed other bidders that their offer has been accepted but that should anything happen that the sale falls through I would like to be kept in the loop. I told him I was first time buyer and ready to go with finance - sure the other bidders could be FTB's too but sure it doesn't hurt to say it.

I've done the best I can do now.

Thanks as always for the advice on here :-)

DrBass

leahyl wrote: »

I don't see how matching the price will make any difference.

Why not? your 200k has the same value as another persons 200k - no?

leahyl wrote: »

cos he wanted an answer from me yesterday

Never be rushed into making a decision, and never make a decision on the phone with the EA - Tell him that you need some time to think(or discuss with a partner) and that you will get back to him asap.

leahyl wrote: »

First time buyer and ready to go with finance

Do you have underwriter loan approval? no harm if you do to send them your full loan approval.

If you really like the house, don't give it up with out a fight eh - I wish you luck!

April 73

That was a good idea to go back & give them your offer. If you have finance approved & a solicitor ready to go, let them know that too. It shows you are a serious bidder.
I know from dealing with EAs last year that they like to put a bit of pressure on to bring things to a close. Often the vendor doesn't push for decisions like that at all & it's quite likely that it's not sale agreed at all yet. Good luck!

leahyl

DrBass wrote: »

Do you have underwriter loan approval? no harm if you do to send them your full loan approval.

If you really like the house, don't give it up with out a fight eh - I wish you luck!

I don't have full approval yet because I need the property in order to process it but he had already asked me for a letter from the bank when I put in my original bid saying that I would be able to get a mortgage - which I did, so he knows I'm serious.

I have had full loan approval before a few times and am now in an even stronger position with savings etc so I know that I will be approved.

Thanks for encouragement

ABajaninCork

Did you follow up the e-mail with a call?

PetuniaT

Definitely follow up your email with a call as it could easily get "lost" in with other emails and spam etc. Know how disheartening it can get trying to buy in this climate. I'm sale agreed and waiting for contracts to be issued since before Xmas and hoping it's not the third one to fall through in a row. Good luck with your offer and keep us posted!

leahyl

I'm really bad on the phone - can't assert myself too well and I have been in contact with him by email over the last week also so I'm thinking he will see my email.

TheDriver

call his office and leave a message with the secretary that there is an email for him etc etc

ABajaninCork

If you want the house (or indeed any house), then you have to get over the phone nerves! If it helps, write down a few bullet points with what you need to tell them first.

This is a business transaction. You want the house? You've mailed the agent. No guarantee he's even SEEN the mail yet, if he's been out of the office/busy with clients.

As above. Call the office. If he's not there, speak to his secretary/boss, and tell them you've mailed in another offer and you're following up.

um7y1h83ge06nx

I would also say to always deal with the EA directly and not the office staff when putting in bids. That way you can get a better feel for things from his reaction. I think it shows you're possibly a bit more serious too.

leelee77

LeahyL please don't give up. You don't know what the vendors circumstances are.

My friends recently sold their second home. They were under pressure to sell it quickly. One couple offered them under the asking but have no chain. The other couple offered €6k more than the other couple but both had houses to sell. My friends went with the first couple. There were too many things that could go wrong/be delayed with the second couple.

leahyl

Just got an email from auctioneer - they already put a deposit on house today :(

leelee77

leahyl wrote: »

Just got an email from auctioneer - they already put a deposit on house today :(

Sorry to hear that.

ABajaninCork

leahyl wrote: »

Just got an email from auctioneer - they already put a deposit on house today :(

That's a shame. I'd still tell the EA you'd like to be kept informed - just on the off-chance the sale goes to the pictures.

Dr Strange

leahyl wrote: »

Just got an email from auctioneer - they already put a deposit on house today :(

That's a pity. At least you can start clearing your head and when you're ready start looking again. Don't give up.