Another Mahon Office Development

duchalla

http://www.eveningecho.ie/news/cork-news/2015/02/04/go-ahead-granted-for-another-mahon-office-development/

What do people make of this? While the new jobs are welcome, the traffic at present in the evening is fairly chocca, this no doubt, will make it much much worse. I think the infrastucture should have been sorted first. Another case of putting the cart before the horse??

Loire

One word....TRAFFIC !!!

Milly33

Do they actually give locals jobs then. I was nearly choking one night chatting to lads who worked in Big Fish. They were flown over from America, given contracts, and accommodation (they had to pay a small bit but not a lot)... I was like mmm I thought it was suppose to bring jobs to the area..

And traffic nightmare, bunch of eijits...

namloc1980

The old railway line should really be a priority transport corridor to support these types of developments.

kub

Someone please say that the City Council will now expand the road on which this magnificent new building is being put alongside..

But of course this is Ireland and things don't work like that, so I suppose another couple of hundred people, thankfully in employment, but will be stuffed onto an already chaotic road.

H3llR4iser

The access roads and the million of traffic lights are the part of the issue. Right now, in the morning you have queues of cars going all the way through Skehard road, past Supervalu, and then some more. Not good on the other side either, with the link road and JL tunnel.

In the evening it's even worse - sometimes it takes 30 minutes just to get out of the car parks, as the road is simply completely covered with cars. There would be the need for some additional access route - the issue is, with essentially water and houses all around, I don't see how.

The old railway is probably too narrow, it wouldn't accommodate a proper road as is and it'd need plenty of work.

Another part of the issue is made by the people: many workers enjoy flexitime these days, yet they all still stubbornly insist about going in at 9.00 and finishing up at 18.00; Even the ones who don't have reasons like "bringing the kids to school". If more people went in and out earlier or later, congestion would not be so dramatic and the traffic distributed through time.


There would be one possibility: ramp up public transport. Right now, the only way to get to Mahon without using a car is the 215, which has too much of a long journey all the way from Blarney, and the Ghost Bus, aka 219: many legends are told about its existence, but anybody claiming to have seen it or, heavens forbid, traveled on it is destined to be ridiculed as a balooney-teller.

Milly33 wrote: »

Do they actually give locals jobs then. I was nearly choking one night chatting to lads who worked in Big Fish. They were flown over from America, given contracts, and accommodation (they had to pay a small bit but not a lot)... I was like mmm I thought it was suppose to bring jobs to the area..

And traffic nightmare, bunch of eijits...

All nice and good, but the main issue is the availability of workforce. As simple as it is, for certain roles there aren't enough skilled people in Ireland, end of it. If you need an experienced Software Engineer, you can't hire a Builder and hope he'll "do all right"...

kub

Well within the next few weeks Bus Eireann Cork are taking delivery of lots of new double deck buses and the 215 will become all decker operated.
Hopefully this will attract people onto that service.

Pablo Escobar

Milly33 wrote: »

Do they actually give locals jobs then. I was nearly choking one night chatting to lads who worked in Big Fish. They were flown over from America, given contracts, and accommodation (they had to pay a small bit but not a lot)... I was like mmm I thought it was suppose to bring jobs to the area..

And traffic nightmare, bunch of eijits...

As mentioned above, that is an over-simplified conception. In my job, this happens in reverse and I actually will probably end up in the US over the next year. Would it be better to use somebody local or somebody trained and qualified and already on the payroll?

It all depends on the role really, but at the end of the day it comes down to what makes sense financially.

Ludo

At least two of the major employers the (that I know of) refuse flexi-time and insist on a set finish time. Stupid and certainly doesn't help matters. In this day and age that mind set has no place in software dev companies.

H3llR4iser

kub wrote: »

Well within the next few weeks Bus Eireann Cork are taking delivery of lots of new double deck buses and the 215 will become all decker operated.
Hopefully this will attract people onto that service.

The problems with the Bus Eireann service are frequency, information and routes more than capacity. Up until a few months ago, I lived in Douglas. It's one of Cork's main residential areas and it has no direct connection to one of the main business areas; Or better, there is one connection: the 219. Which runs hourly and, even more ridiculously, has its final run from Mahon at 18.00. I can imagine there are many other areas in a similar situation.

Another big issue is that they insist in not having times set for the different stops and stick to them. What I mean is a time that is the earliest the bus will leave that stop at. For example, let's say the bus stops in one spot at 8.39 - it means it won't leave before 8.39, even if there's little traffic and gets to said stop at 8.30. It seems like a small thing, but it makes a huge difference - if you get to the stop at 8.38 and the bus is nowhere to be seen, you know it hasn't got there yet as opposed to having to wonder if it's about to show up , or if it might have been early and the next one won't be around before an hour.

The way the system is currently set up is essentially catered towards shoppers and generally people who don't have set times to move around.

Ludo wrote:

At least two of the major employers the (that I know of) refuse flexi-time and insist on a set finish time. Stupid and certainly doesn't help matters. In this day and age that mind set has no place in software dev companies.

It certainly is the case, but I can also tell from personal experience that even where there is flexitime in function, most people will still stick to the classic 9-to-6 routine. I could understand those who have forced obligations - schools unfortunately all start at a certain time et cetera, but many others do not really have set times other than the ones they arbitrarily decide, and they decide to go with habit

Bacchus

H3llR4iser wrote: »

T
Another big issue is that they insist in not having times set for the different stops and stick to them. What I mean is a time that is the earliest the bus will leave that stop at. For example, let's say the bus stops in one spot at 8.39 - it means it won't leave before 8.39, even if there's little traffic and gets to said stop at 8.30. It seems like a small thing, but it makes a huge difference - if you get to the stop at 8.38 and the bus is nowhere to be seen, you know it hasn't got there yet as opposed to having to wonder if it's about to show up , or if it might have been early and the next one won't be around before an hour.

This. It's soooo annoying playing that guessing game. And then after 15 minutes waiting you see the bus only arriving from the Skehard road and your heart sinks as you know it's still about 15-20 minutes away from picking you up

These 3 things would help somewhat with the traffic problems...
- Double Decker buses
- Bus every 20 minutes at peak times (7-10am & 4-7pm)
- and H3llR4iser's suggestion that each stop has a set departure time (if the bus is early for one, it waits)

The next thing that needs to be done though is to improve the flow of cars in and out of the area. A lot of people, no matter how frequent and reliable the 215 is, will not use that route. I don't know what can be done though to fix this problem. There's no room for more roads! A flyover for the roundabout on the far side of the tunnel could help as you'd no longer have traffic backing up as far as Mahon waiting to get through the roundabout. Other than that though

pwurple

Public transport is sadly lacking alright. If you live in rochestown, and work in mahon, how are you supposed to get there except by car.

We live in ballintemple/blackrock, and both of us can work in Mahon some of the time. We both cycle from nearby, which is great alright... but as a local resident access to the N25 is effectively blocked a lot of the time due to traffic volume.

I'm delighted to see more offices coming along though. It brings great business to the local shops and supporting places will hopefully thrive and create yet more employment. (lunches, car servicing, shops)

cgcsb

Get on to your councillors and TDs, tell them you need BRT or Luas right now, no more faffing.

Milly33

haha local councillors don't give a feck!! Jes Mogonigle thought it was a stupendous idea to take away a perfectly functional roundabout and put in a super duper traffic light system that cost well I just cant say..Stupid money...

Even our own one we have neighbours that have more or less ruined the place. robbed the shop, broke into houses, damage cars it goes on and the loverly Des Cahill does sweet F all about it....

H3llR4iser

pwurple wrote: »

Public transport is sadly lacking alright. If you live in rochestown, and work in mahon, how are you supposed to get there except by car.

Exactly. It's absurdly short sighted - the only semi-practical route to get there goes through city centre. It's a major residential area and I would speculate at least as many people living in Rochestown/Douglas work in Mahon as these who live in the city centre. You'd need to get a bus to town, then the 215. Unrealistic and impractical - again, I sometimes did it when I lived in Douglas: instead of waiting for the ghost ship, got the 206/207 to town and the 215. The downside? It takes an awful long time; You'll easily get into the realms of 1 hour - to essentially move 5 km. When the weather was fair, I used to walk back in the evening - it only took 45 minutes.

Also, the cost issue: ticketing is silly. The fact there is no such thing as a "journey ticket" amazes me - you need two tickets even if you are essentially going on one journey (206 to city, then 215 to Mahon). On a rainy day where walking back was not possible, it'd cost 7.20 (8.00 today) to come and go from work - 72 cents per km, essentially. My 1.9 petrol car doesn't cost that much to run. Heck, a Ferrari F430 would not cost that much to run!

Yes, there is a monthly ticket...78.50 Euro. If you use it for work only, and use the car in the week end like most people would, it comes just shy of 4 euro per day; Which again puts it at a disadvantage compared to using the car.

H3llR4iser

Milly33 wrote: »

haha local councillors don't give a feck!! Jes Mogonigle thought it was a stupendous idea to take away a perfectly functional roundabout and put in a super duper traffic light system that cost well I just cant say..Stupid money...

Even our own one we have neighbours that have more or less ruined the place. robbed the shop, broke into houses, damage cars it goes on and the loverly Des Cahill does sweet F all about it....

Don't get me started; A portion of the Mahon area traffic is due to completely pointless lights. Cork suffers from lightitis; Even roundabouts have lights slammed in the middle...and the idea behind roundabouts is that once you are inside it, you never stop until you leave it. But no, most in Cork have 2-3-4 sets of lights in the middle. Great stuff.

Milly33

I know it is crazy.. I remember hearing ages ago that the council overspent and ordered a lot of traffic lights. I nearly believe this as they have plonked them everywhere. Sure Rochestown was mad too and then they put a set half way up the hill by garyduff..

Ludo

pwurple wrote: »

Public transport is sadly lacking alright. If you live in rochestown, and work in mahon, how are you supposed to get there except by car.

In fairness, there cannot be a direct bus route from everywhere to Mahon. There simply would not be the demand/usage to make them feasible. And as for Rochestown to Mahon...walk/cycle. 30 min walk roughly , 10 minute cycle along the old railway track. It is so short and flat that the usual no showers in work excuse wouldn't really matter.

Milly33

still though in fainess if they are going to make it into a mini cosmopolitan city or whatever you would like to call it. They should have services. A bus to and from Rochestown/Ringaskiddy would only work in their favour. and take the car traffic away

H3llR4iser

Ludo wrote: »

In fairness, there cannot be a direct bus route from everywhere to Mahon. There simply would not be the demand/usage to make them feasible. And as for Rochestown to Mahon...walk/cycle. 30 min walk roughly , 10 minute cycle along the old railway track. It is so short and flat that the usual no showers in work excuse wouldn't really matter.

But it is one of, if not the main commercial/business area of Cork. It should be one of the focuses of the transport "network", and it's not even remotely so. Even if they just made the 219 into a proper service, with a bus every 15 minutes 8-10 and 17-19, extending it until 20 or 21, it'd help greatly.

An unified ticket would also be a huge step: get your 2.00 Euro Rochestown-Mahon ticket, jump on a bus that gets to Douglas, step off and get the "ramped up" 219 with the same ticket.

As for walking/cycling, as I said I used to do from Douglas. It's not a feasible/valid solution all year round - you don't want to get to work soaked in rain. Fair weather - no problem, but most of the autumn/winter aren't that friendly.

pwurple

Ludo wrote: »

In fairness, there cannot be a direct bus route from everywhere to Mahon.

No, but there should be functioning orbital routes. Why every line is dragged through the city center is beyond me. And if anyone can provide a link to a map of the route the 219 actually takes, I'd be delighted.

Ludo wrote: »

There simply would not be the demand/usage to make them feasible.

Pity an ould survey of commutes isn't done to determine demand.

D'Agger

An oyster card styled system, while expensive to implement, would make public transport faster and easier to use imo

Ron Burgundy II

If the Council and NRA can get moving on the Dunkettle works ASAP, this will provide huge relief on the roads around the area. Dunkettle is a serious bottle neck in the mornings and evenings and as a result has a knock effect on all approach roads.

Using the railway line as an access route into the city for cars is the wrong idea. Its too good of a walk for it to be ruined by cars etc.

In my opinion putting lights on roundabouts is a good idea. Well on heavily trafficked roundabouts anyway. If you didn't place lights on these roundabouts its only going to cause serious delays on the small roads connecting to the roundabout and this as a consequence will lead to people taking unnecessary risks pushing out onto traffic etc.

Now some roundabouts don't need lights and this was proven in Togher where the council spent thousands on a minor roundabout to only make the situation worse.

cgcsb

Milly33 wrote: »

haha local councillors don't give a feck!! Jes Mogonigle thought it was a stupendous idea to take away a perfectly functional roundabout and put in a super duper traffic light system that cost well I just cant say..Stupid money...

NRA and council policy across Ireland has been to remove busy roundabouts in urban areas to replace them with more people friendly layouts. I don't think it's anything to do with your councillor, just standard NRA guidelines. Roundabouts are rapidly disappearing in Dublin.

cgcsb

Ludo wrote: »

In fairness, there cannot be a direct bus route from everywhere to Mahon. There simply would not be the demand/usage to make them feasible. And as for Rochestown to Mahon...walk/cycle. 30 min walk roughly , 10 minute cycle along the old railway track. It is so short and flat that the usual no showers in work excuse wouldn't really matter.

I don't think people really want a direct bus from everywhere, just integrated ticketing and a reliable orbital route, please thanks, standard things in the developed world really.

cgcsb

H3llR4iser wrote: »

As for walking/cycling, as I said I used to do from Douglas. It's not a feasible/valid solution all year round - you don't want to get to work soaked in rain. Fair weather - no problem, but most of the autumn/winter aren't that friendly.

I wonder how the residents of Amsterdam, Stockholm and Copenhagen get to work in the snow sleet and rain everyday??

cgcsb

D'Agger wrote: »

An oyster card styled system, while expensive to implement, would make public transport faster and easier to use imo

It would cost nothing to convert the existing leap card into an integrated ticket.

pwurple

cgcsb wrote: »

NRA and council policy across Ireland has been to remove busy roundabouts in urban areas to replace them with more people friendly layouts. I don't think it's anything to do with your councillor, just standard NRA guidelines. Roundabouts are rapidly disappearing in Dublin.

It wasn't a busy roundabout... was a very quiet one.

Money had to be spent on something or the funding was lost, was their rational at the time.

Milly33

cgcsb wrote: »

NRA and council policy across Ireland has been to remove busy roundabouts in urban areas to replace them with more people friendly layouts. I don't think it's anything to do with your councillor, just standard NRA guidelines. Roundabouts are rapidly disappearing in Dublin.

I would like you to go up and have a look at what they done.. it was madness absolute madness. There was a roundiebout there working perfectly, you would never get stuck in traffic or anything like that.

Then they put in this complicated array of lights and lanes that would have anyone confused. They have a bike lane there where if you are in it, you could easily get hit by a car as you have to change lanes to go left. The other lane is used for parking for people going to the pub or matches.. it is a joke... And it was the councillor as she had it all up on her page about the plans for it..

namloc1980

D'Agger wrote: »

An oyster card styled system, while expensive to implement, would make public transport faster and easier to use imo

You'd be amazed at the number of people who don't know that you can pay bus fares in Cork with Leap Card. Cash fare in Cork is €2 versus €1.60 on Leap - 20% saving. Yet the vast majority of people continue to pay the higher cash fare and bitch and moan about it while ignoring the much cheaper and easier Leap option.

kub

duchalla wrote: »

http://www.eveningecho.ie/news/cork-news/2015/02/04/go-ahead-granted-for-another-mahon-office-development/

What do people make of this? While the new jobs are welcome, the traffic at present in the evening is fairly chocca, this no doubt, will make it much much worse. I think the infrastucture should have been sorted first. Another case of putting the cart before the horse??

Thanks OP, lads and lassies have a look at the attachment above to the picture in the Evening Echo.
I note the developer must also be demolishing a lot of the houses behind the building in Mahon, because they sure as he'll don't look like they are pictured above

cgcsb

pwurple wrote: »

It wasn't a busy roundabout... was a very quiet one.

quiet from the perspective of a driver or a pedestrian? Different perspectives can vary wildly.

namloc1980

kub wrote: »

Thanks OP, lads and lassies have a look at the attachment above to the picture in the Evening Echo.
I note the developer must also be demolishing a lot of the houses behind the building in Mahon, because they sure as he'll don't look like they are pictured above

No houses need demolishing. It's an existing derelict site. Click

kub

namloc1980 wrote: »

No houses need demolishing. It's an existing derelict site. Click

Oh no it is not I am referring to Balinure Place and those houses do not look like the way they are depicted in that picture in the paper.

pwurple

cgcsb wrote: »

quiet from the perspective of a driver or a pedestrian? Different perspectives can vary wildly.

Uh... both? I've relatives who live in a house by the lights. They/we don't use their garden anymore. Fumes from queues of traffic and noise of cars revving to start from standstill. When it was a roundabout it was free flowing.

I also cycle, avoid that section as I think directing a lane of traffic through/over a cycle lane is potentially lethal.

I also drive. Can't remember a single time I haven't been queued at that junction since the roundabout went. So environmentally unsound, Increased pollution for no good reason bugs me no end.

I know some of the brickfields residents also, and they never wanted the roundabout removed either. They just wanted lights on the skehard road access...

I wish they had spent that money solving the real road problems down by SuperValu or in mahon instead of that white elephant.

namloc1980

kub wrote: »

Oh no it is not I am referring to Balinure Place and those houses do not look like the way they are depicted in that picture in the paper.

There are no houses being demolished. Take a look at the planning drawings on the city council website and you'll see that.

kub

namloc1980 wrote: »

There are no houses being demolished. Take a look at the planning drawings on the city council website and you'll see that.

Oh for God's sake it was an off the cuff remark, my jab was at the typical glossy images in these pictures.
My sincerest apologise for taking me literally..

Douglas Eegit

kub wrote: »

Oh for God's sake it was an off the cuff remark, my jab was at the typical glossy images in these pictures.
My sincerest apologise for taking me literally..

haha... love how you turned this

kub

Douglas Eegit wrote: »

haha... love how you turned this

Whatever

who_me

Douglas Eegit wrote: »

haha... love how you turned this

He/she is right; if you look at the houses in the background of the Evening Echo photo, they don't really match up with what's there in reality (link)

It's a bit of a typical case of 'glamourising' the area in the mockups.

Fabio

D'Agger wrote: »

An oyster card styled system, while expensive to implement, would make public transport faster and easier to use imo

There is one, it's called the Leap card. No idea how good it is but it's a very similar system to the Oyster card.

Fabio

Look there's no point putting on extra buses if they are going to be caught in traffic all of the time. What should have been put on that road was dedicated bus lanes to enable rapid transport to be...well...rapid. I know there are plans for the upper Skehard Rd, past Supervalu fpor a bus lane there to run by the houses but apart from that I don't see how they can extend further along Skehard Road as there is no land for the road to widen east of Supervalu. However there is some land available on either side of the road going from the CSO to MahonPoint along which at least one bus lane could be put.

Oh, and take a look at the first picture in that article and the junction immediately after the current traffic lights by CSO. Imagine trying to get out of that!!! Cars coming around from Skehard Rd, trees in the way and a slight kink so as to ENSURE that no one can see a bloody thing on exit there. Great.

pwurple

The whole point of buses is that it removed cars from the roads. If you put 30 people on a bus, that's 30 less cars. You don't require a bus lane for every route. If the buses run frequently enough at peak times, and service the right areas, they are fantastic.

And yes, the Leap card is available, is cheaper at 1.60... and even cheaper again because some of the time the machine isn't working, so the driver waves you on for free.

SpaceTime

Milly33 wrote: »

Do they actually give locals jobs then. I was nearly choking one night chatting to lads who worked in Big Fish. They were flown over from America, given contracts, and accommodation (they had to pay a small bit but not a lot)... I was like mmm I thought it was suppose to bring jobs to the area..

And traffic nightmare, bunch of eijits...

One way or the other, they pay Irish income tax, PRSI and spend money in Cork. It still is a huge boost for the local economy.

clerk

SpaceTime wrote: »

One way or the other, they pay Irish income tax, PRSI and spend money in Cork. It still is a huge boost for the local economy.

Firstly, you're right of course. Cork cannot afford to say no to these developments.

Having said that there is no point in not having a discussion about what the traffic will be like down there.

l live in Blackrock and have seen the traffic set up at Mahon at first hand for the last 10 Years. With an extra we'll say 750 ( for argument sakes ) cars coming out onto the 'one' lane, after work, to head to the tunnel the traffic up the Skehard Road is going to get seriously gridlocked on a Daily basis.

The thing is the new development will probably have a slip lane as the previous development got, so the traffic back along is going to get more and more backed up. I really don't have a clue how they are going to resolve it because the road infrastuture does not support this level of development.

If it goes ahead that link road is going to become a no go zone between 5 and 6.30 every work Day.

Douglas Eegit

For non customer facing roles i don't understand why flexi time is not an option, maybe it is. I would much rather, given the option go to work for 7 and leave at 4. It's a win win.. no traffic and guaranteed parking. I'm currently working in a customer facing IT role, therefore need to be in until 6pm. But as i HATE traffic, I'm usually in for 8 am and leave at 6.30. Win win for the company but flexitime is not encouraged.

Obviously if your're doing a lot of your business with USA then it would favour you to work in the evening, flip that around and if you're dealing with Asia a lot then morning shift is more favourable.

Not sure if this is common in the offices around Cork or if the option of flexitime is available but surely, there must be a demand in order to 'skip' the traffic

KCAccidental

Flexitime got such a bad rep as a 'perk' in the public service that had to be abolished during the recession, that most companies here won't even consider it.

TheChizler

They'd have to change the light sequence and put in a smarter management system, half the time there's nothing moving through the big junction. That junction's so large as well that they have to have long breaks between red and green, maybe they might be able to squash it together to minimise the transit time through it. Same with the knock on junctions on the flyover.

They could extend the third lane dedicated to going north to the big junction and this might encourage drivers to use the two lanes on the right to full capacity, normally now the outside lane is backed up a lot more than the left.

BUNK1982

Late on to this thread - but I think this is a terrible proposal.

I work in the area and it takes 20 minutes just to get out of the car park!

The area is not able to manage what is there already so how does building more help anything?

D'Agger

Douglas Eegit wrote: »

For non customer facing roles i don't understand why flexi time is not an option, maybe it is. I would much rather, given the option go to work for 7 and leave at 4. It's a win win.. no traffic and guaranteed parking. I'm currently working in a customer facing IT role, therefore need to be in until 6pm. But as i HATE traffic, I'm usually in for 8 am and leave at 6.30. Win win for the company but flexitime is not encouraged.

Obviously if your're doing a lot of your business with USA then it would favour you to work in the evening, flip that around and if you're dealing with Asia a lot then morning shift is more favourable.

Not sure if this is common in the offices around Cork or if the option of flexitime is available but surely, there must be a demand in order to 'skip' the traffic

One word - Support

Many companies today, and a large amount of the ones you'll find in the CitiGate developments aren't customer facing but they provide support & services to their customers in a 'follow the sun' style. The fact that they're not customer facing makes no difference.

EMEA will come in and work the 9-5, around 3pm GMT The US will start waking up and their staff will provide relief, EMEA staff will continue to provide support whilst spending the evening following up on their mornings work - the same is done in the US until the Chinese offices wake up etc.

Look at the companies around that area - VCE, Solarwinds, McAfee, Voxpro. These are companies that provide global support - flexitime for their staff isn't an option as it essentially creates holes in their support nets. Say the US team is up the walls - they might need some EMEA staff to take some calls, take over tickets etc. - half the office being gone from half 3 because they worked up their hours in the mornings that week doesn't cut it. It's not up to you to come in when it's quieter and leave a region up the creek when you're needed.

Now that's one example but you get my point - customer facing or not, business demands mean that flexi time isn't an option for many companies in todays market.

cgcsb

Fabio wrote: »

There is one, it's called the Leap card. No idea how good it is but it's a very similar system to the Oyster card.

if you use it to change buses, you still get charged twice and you can't use it on Cork Commuter rail, so it's almost useless.