What's the point of protesting?

PizzamanIRL

The government know people are unhappy with x, y and z. It's not as if they think 'Oh no, the public aren't happy with the water charges. Look they're protesting'

It's a waste of time and money.

Venus In Furs

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poll_Tax_Riots

It can work if vociferous enough. Although I hate thuggery.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

PizzamanIRL wrote: »

The government know people are unhappy with x, y and z. It's not as if they think 'Oh no, the public aren't happy with the water charges. Look they're protesting'

It's a waste of time and money.

Brough the Berlin Wall down.

It's not that protesting doesn't work - the government does listen and these are voters with a tight election comig up next year - it's the fact that it's undermined consistantly by people who are either apathetic about the whole thing or, as far as I can tell, happy with the way things are.

bigdaddy2010

Council tax replaced it though.......

DoYouEvenLift

It's a day out of the house

Tugboats

PizzamanIRL wrote: »

The government know people are unhappy with x, y and z. It's not as if they think 'Oh no, the public aren't happy with the water charges. Look they're protesting'

It's a waste of time and money.

Its not. It's get the unemployed and the left out of the house for some fresh air and exercise

Letree

It worked for the water charges, do you not remember what they were proposing charging us before they backed down?

wretcheddomain

Many protesters, despite their protestations, are actually profoundly anti-democratic.

Many protesters false assume they are fighting the good fight on behalf of everyone else, even though they have no authority to assume this - most recently coming in the form of the anti-Water crowd.

This small clique will then demand a snap election, even though a sizeable amount have, and will continue, to vote for the governing powers - at least if current polls are to be believed.

They have no regard or respect for the democratic system, and will even go so far as to tar President Higgins and demand his resignation.

There are many causes where a universal protest is what's required - and history has taught us this - but this doesn't mean we need respect all forms of protest, as the anti-Water brigade give us some reason to suggest.

c_man

To pull hot chicks :cool:

Streetwalker

Tugboats wrote: »

Its not. It's get the unemployed and the left out of the house for some fresh air and exercise

I work a full time job and part time every second weekend to make ends meet for me and mine. I also have attended several protests against the water charges. I suppose im a "looney leftie" or a "sponger" though right?

Streetwalker

Letree wrote: »

It worked for the water charges, do you not remember what they were proposing charging us before they backed down?

True but very few have fallen for that trick. Even those with the very lowest of IQ's realise it's just to lure people in and thank god it looks like the majority aren't falling for it.

the_syco

The good; it shows people that there are many people that also disagree with the protests.

The bad; it shows people an element/party that they don't want to associate with, and thus ignore the protests.

Letree

Streetwalker wrote: »

True but very few have fallen for that trick. Even those with the very lowest of IQ's realise it's just to lure people in and thank god it looks like the majority aren't falling for it.

Have the majority not signed up?

wretcheddomain

Letree wrote: »

Have the majority not signed up?

Yes - slightly more than half have already signed-up.

The lower you travel down the socioeconomic scale, the more likely you are not to have signed up - or have concocted some convoluted reason why they shouldn't pay. Though, if you ask them what tax they would be willing to pay in order to improve our water systems, they'll never come up with one. It's all take, take, take...

DamagedTrax

Letree wrote: »

Have the majority not signed up?

out of 1.5 mill only just over half have signed up according to RTE's latest figures.

NotASheeple

DamagedTrax wrote: »

out of 1.5 mill only just over half have signed up according to RTE's latest figures.

RTE's figures? So when they say half, we're probably really talking about a quarter.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

DamagedTrax wrote: »

out of 1.5 mill only just over half have signed up according to RTE's latest figures.

And therein lies the aforementioned problem - apathy. Tens of thousands protest, hundreds of thousands pay up.

Not sayign the water shcrge is unfair or even unnnessecary, but specific to the topic at hand, you need a hell of a lot more solidarity to make protesting work.

Tugboats

Streetwalker wrote: »

I work a full time job and part time every second weekend to make ends meet for me and mine. I also have attended several protests against the water charges. I suppose im a "looney leftie" or a "sponger" though right?

Yep if you want free that makes you a sponger

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Tugboats wrote: »

Yep if you want free that makes you a sponger

Not sure you're following the line of thought here: you implied it was the unemployed who protested, he pointed out he wasn't unemployed and still protested...

... and now you're saying it's something to do with wanting freebies and sponging...?

Filmer Paradise

Any protest march or demonstration in this country is always & I mean always by hijacked by Shinners, Hippies, Crusties, Cranks, People with nothing else to do, & other professional Soap Dodgers.

And most Irish people don't want to be associated with that style of people.

Protesting in this country is spoiled by the high Scumball Quotient in most areas unfortunately.

Banjo String

wretcheddomain wrote: »

Yes - slightly more than half have already signed-up.

The lower you travel down the socioeconomic scale, the more likely you are not to have signed up - or have concocted some convoluted reason why they shouldn't pay. Though, if you ask them what tax they would be willing to pay in order to improve our water systems, they'll never come up with one. It's all take, take, take...

What a load of bollox.

I work for myself, and employ a few people.... and haven't (nor will I) sign up.

Also, laughably, IW and the government are falsely claiming (and contradicting each other) about numbers.

Sever hundred thousand have registered with IW to let them know they're on gws or private wells. (so let's take them out)

Also, IW registered all the "no consent", other profanities on their forms up (which was nice of them)

So, they reported the other day, a million had signed up (and they mentioned the well/gws figures), so let's assume that we have to take 200,000 (from the several hundred thousands of the well and gws numbers) from that.

Then take away the people who wrote profanities, no contract no consent, and the lad who wiped his backside with his (stay classy)...

I'd say that gives a figure of well under 800k (from a base of 1.6m)

In my maths, that's short of 50% by a good bit.

But, besides that, rte report that IW have said they now have 827 k signed up as of today......

Did 173k people (from the earlier "million" reports) take their forms back?

Lol..... Someone's telling spoofs........

In reality, I reckon about 30/40% have signed up.

To be blunt. IW (and prob the Govt) are fcuked.

Bubbaclaus

You would think the lefties would like water charges. Paying for what you use is a very lefty thing.

Banjoxed

Banjo String wrote: »

What a load of bollox.

I work for myself, and employ a few people.... and haven't (nor will I) sign up.

Also, laughably, IW and the government are falsely claiming (and contradicting each other) about numbers.

Sever hundred thousand have registered with IW to let them know they're on gws or private wells. (so let's take them out)

Also, IW registered all the "no consent", other profanities on their forms up (which was nice of them)

So, they reported the other day, a million had signed up (and they mentioned the well/gws figures), so let's assume that we have to take 200,000 (from the several hundred thousands of the well and gws numbers) from that.

Then take away the people who wrote profanities, no contract no consent, and the lad who wiped his backside with his (stay classy)...

I'd say that gives a figure of well under 800k (from a base of 1.6m)

In my maths, that's short of 50% by a good bit.

But, besides that, rte report that IW have said they now have 827 k signed up as of today......

Did 173k people (from the earlier "million" reports) take their forms back?

Lol..... Someone's telling spoofs........

In reality, I reckon about 30/40% have signed up.

To be blunt. IW (and prob the Govt) are fcuked.

My household income is €38k pa. We'll be the fukkee and SF/SWP will be the fukker when they get into power next year.

Tugboats

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Not sure you're following the line of thought here: you implied it was the unemployed who protested, he pointed out he wasn't unemployed and still protested...

... and now you're saying it's something to do with wanting freebies and sponging...?

I said unemployed and the left, he then asked me is he a sponger for wanting free water. The answer is yes

Capt'n Midnight

DamagedTrax wrote: »

out of 1.5 mill only just over half have signed up according to RTE's latest figures.

actually it's more like half have been signed up.

Anyone who replied , even if they stated on the form they weren't accepting the terms was signed up.

I went on line. I did not create an online account because of data privacy concerns. ( Board Gais only got the gig because they claimed to have working system, then spent lots of money setting up, rushed software and procedures aren't robust ). I have no idea if I'm signed up properly because when I tried to log into the site again to check the details it wouldn't allow me in again.


All in all it's not totally dissimilar to the same way that if you unsubscribe from spam your email address is now worth more because you've confirmed it's a valid address.

Chucken

Tugboats wrote: »

I said unemployed and the left, he then asked me is he a sponger for wanting free water. The answer is yes

I've no problem paying for water.

ONCE.

And NOT to a quango set up to screw us out of more money down the line.

That's why I've been to protests.

Venus In Furs

The protesters are a mixed bunch in and of themselves. They're not all "lefties" - plenty of them have no political affiliations and wouldn't have the slightest notion about same. And there are people who are centre, and to the right.
People have differing reasons for protesting too - the fact we were already paying towards the water supply and while they would have no issue with taxes going towards legitimate services, they're not fans of bank bailouts; the messy set-up of things, the bonuses (I'd agree with those points of view).
And then there's the crowd who just see "A charge - we won't pay" and don't think any deeper than that. They're the charming folk who physically attack people and come across as complete dullards. They unfortunately let the reasonable people down.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Tugboats wrote: »

I said unemployed and the left, he then asked me is he a sponger for wanting free water. The answer is yes

Fair enough, he brought up the sponger but the same point remains - what does being unemployed or being left-wing politically have to do with protesting?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Venus In Furs wrote: »

The protesters are a mixed bunch in and of themselves. They're not all "lefties" - plenty of them have no political affiliations and wouldn't have the slightest notion about same. And there are people who are centre, and to the right.
People have differing reasons for protesting too - the fact we were already paying towards the water supply and while they would have no issue with taxes going towards legitimate services, they're not fans of bank bailouts; the messy set-up of things, the bonuses (I'd agree with those points of view).
And then there's the crowd who just see "A charge - we won't pay" and don't think any deeper than that. They're the charming folk who physically attack people and come across as complete dullards. They unfortunately let the reasonable people down.

The problem is that people do, as someone else said, hijack protests without any idea how to protest or what they're protesting against. But bringing along your gay equality/feminism now/animal rights banners just confuses people, despite being fair causes.

And confused people have no idea what the issue is and start condemning the proterstors.

donegaLroad

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Brough the Berlin Wall down.

It's not that protesting doesn't work - the government does listen and these are voters with a tight election comig up next year - it's the fact that it's undermined consistantly by people who are either apathetic about the whole thing or, as far as I can tell, happy with the way things are.

Im not so sure it will be that tight... just saying.

keith16

wretcheddomain wrote: »

It's all take, take, take...

It certainly is.

Venus In Furs

Venus In Furs wrote: »

Although I hate thuggery.

Thuggery on both sides.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

donegaLroad wrote: »

Im not so sure it will be that tight... just saying.

Last poll I say had a three or four parties within a few percentage points of each other.

donegaLroad

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Last poll I say had a three or four parties within a few percentage points of each other.

yep, but there is a way to go yet before the election.. the mud slinging hasn't properly started yet.

DeJa VooDoo

DamagedTrax wrote: »

out of 1.5 mill only just over half have signed up according to RTE's latest figures.

How many of those who signed up before the climbdown's and scandal after scandal in IW will pay up come April though?

IW is dead in the water (pardon the pun), it's an embarrassment to the country.
The only reason FG won't get rid is because they know they'd have to go to the people and the people would pass judgement on them, their incompetence and their cronyism.

DeJa VooDoo

PizzamanIRL wrote: »

The government know people are unhappy with x, y and z. It's not as if they think 'Oh no, the public aren't happy with the water charges. Look they're protesting'

It's a waste of time and money.

So far, protesting against Irish Water has seen the end of demands for PPS numbers, an end to metering for the foreseeable future, a massive reduction in the amount they're going to try and charge, an attempt by FG/Lab to bribe people with a miserable €100 and a government running scared of the people who elected them.

Almost a media blackout these days by FG/Lab unless they're smearing opponents, the end of debate in Dail Eireann by the FG cheann comhairle resulting in the opposition refusing to take part in the sham and walking out en masse.

Democracy is dying in this country, being killed by the power trips of the moan and enda.

uck51js9zml2yt

Bring a picnic and its a nice family day out. Who needs die hard when can watch violence in real life.

Banjo String

Adele Aggressive Harbor wrote: »

Bring a picnic and its a nice family day out. Who needs die hard when can watch violence in real life.

What violence?

DeJa VooDoo

Banjo String wrote: »

What violence?

I think someone tried to climb the gates of Leinster house yesterday to hang a placard on it.

'Will someone pleeeeaaasssssseeeeeeee think of the children!!!'

0byme75341jo28

wretcheddomain wrote: »

Yes - slightly more than half have already signed-up.

The lower you travel down the socioeconomic scale, the more likely you are not to have signed up - or have concocted some convoluted reason why they shouldn't pay. Though, if you ask them what tax they would be willing to pay in order to improve our water systems, they'll never come up with one. It's all take, take, take...

So what percentage of the population just "take, take, take"? It's certainly not in the 40-50% range, the same 40-50% of the population who, by your logic, are yet to sign up. Also not factoring in the fact that the lower you travel down the socioeconomic the ability to pay diminishes so naturally you will receive a greater number of protestations from this group.

r93kaey5p2izun

I view those who automatically oppose any and all protests, and who fall over themselves to make sad little derogatory comments about protestors, with exactly the same level of suspicion as I view the yobs who hijack protests to throw bottles at the gardai. They're both equally as damaging to society imo.

DeJa VooDoo

Mateo Mysterious Sodium wrote: »

I view those who automatically oppose any and all protests, and who fall over themselves to make sad little derogatory comments about protestors, with exactly the same level of suspicion as I view the yobs who hijack protests to throw bottles at the gardai. They're both equally as damaging to society imo.

Anti-democratic is the phrase I think.

The same way kenny has his boot boy shut down debate in the national chamber causing mass walkouts from the opposition.

FG will get their reward, again, from the electorate in the next GE.

There's a reason why they've never served consecutive terms in office here.

S.O

People protest to make their views known if they re unhappy about an issue; Take Pegida protesting in Germany they are obviously unhappy about what they see as too much Islamic Immigration;; they could just ring radio shows to vent and complain; ( like some do with Joe Duffy here ) or they could march to express their views about an issue they feel strongly about.

Little CuChulainn

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Brough the Berlin Wall down.

Wasn't that an occupation though? Is there not a very big difference between fighting an occupying force and protesting against a service charge?

steddyeddy

wretcheddomain wrote: »

Yes - slightly more than half have already signed-up.

The lower you travel down the socioeconomic scale, the more likely you are not to have signed up - or have concocted some convoluted reason why they shouldn't pay. Though, if you ask them what tax they would be willing to pay in order to improve our water systems, they'll never come up with one. It's all take, take, take...

So the less money people have to pay the Lessing willing they are to pay more? No **** Sherlock.

Galwayguy35

I agree with protest, it can achieve results, the pensioners weren't long getting the Government to back down.

Unfortunately protests like the ones about water meters are attracting a skanger element who just want to get in the faces of the Gardai.

It's a bit hard to take having some track suited strote with his smartphone out recording as he shouts abuse at you.

gerry_seinfeld

the whole purpose of protesting ( in this country anyway ) is to force change so someone else pays for a service you are receiving

while their may be differences in terms of backround etc between protestors , it all boils down to getting others to put their hand in their pockets instead of me

DeJa VooDoo

gerry_seinfeld wrote: »

the whole purpose of protesting ( in this country anyway ) is to force change so someone else pays for a service you are receiving

while their may be differences in terms of backround etc between protestors , it all boils down to getting others to put their hand in their pockets instead of me

Bullsh1t!

steddyeddy

gerry_seinfeld wrote: »

the whole purpose of protesting ( in this country anyway ) is to force change so someone else pays for a service you are receiving

while their may be differences in terms of backround etc between protestors , it all boils down to getting others to put their hand in their pockets instead of me

So you don't believe that certain groups of people cannot afford to pay more?

gerry_seinfeld

steddyeddy wrote: »

So you don't believe that certain groups of people cannot afford to pay more?

thats a different arguement , even its true it doesnt change what motivates protestors

i mean what is the central message of those politicans who lead this campaign


" MAKE THE RICH PAY "

shruikan2553

Tugboats wrote: »

Yep if you want free that makes you a sponger

Indeed, we should charge fees for all schools. That will show the spongers. If you want your children to go to school you can pay for it.