Do you support the Swedish model?

Ozymandius2011

The government is legislating for the Swedish model in the new Sexual Offences Bill. The Swedish model would make paying for sex a crime, punishable by a fine for each 'offence'.

Do you support this idea, which has been pushed by Ruhama for years? Did you know that Ruhama's trustees are the Sisters of Charity and Sisters of Mercy, which ran the Magdalene launderies? Is it not ironic that the religious orders - which are refusing to compensate the Magdalene women - are now posing as defenders of women's rights? And what about the rights of women who choose to be prostitutes? And indeed male prostitutes?

I am opposed to the Swedish model for a number of reasons:

- In 2009 the EU-funded Daphne II Report found that Sweden has the highest per-capita incidence of rape in the EU. This refutes claims I heard a Ruhama member make on the radio that it had reduced rape there.

More than 5,000 rapes are reported in Sweden per annum while reports in other countries of a comparable size amounted to only a few hundred.

- I am a social-liberal who believes consenting adults should be left alone by the State to pursue their private lives.

- Taxing prostitution would raise much needed revenue for the Exchequer. In Germany, where it is legal, it has become a major money-spinner for local governments, It brought in €828000 for the Cologne city council in 2006.

- I believe the Swedish model endangers prostitutes because the legislation would simultaneously outlaw them from working in groups, making them more vulnerable if assaulted.

- I believe regulation would free some prostitutes from pimps. The growth on online escort agencies allows the sex worker to work for themselves. Inspections could help crack down on the spread of STDs.

spikeS

The rape percentage is only so high cause they import so much diversity it's just the country's rape equilibrium finding it's place with their new culture


I'm a re-reg troll and am unable to think for myself. That's why I repeatedly post ridiculous things from other sites in the hopes that someone will love me.

Gatling

Legalised brotels are the way to go , I'd say it would make street prostitution a thing of the past ,

Set up brotels with very strict licence rules monthly health checks for the girls

Desolation Of Smug

With both hands tbh.

Gran Hermano

Support her? Whilst I might buy her drinks or dinner I wouldn't be in favour of providing her a monthly stipend.

anncoates

Thought the thread was about a wide range of equitable and efficient social services paid for by realistic taxes. Don't really care as much about the pressing needs of people that have to pay people to shag them.

jimgoose

So how many rapes per-capita would we get under the new scheme??

Ken.

Its unfair. You have to pay to fück a hooker and pay to be fücked by the government. Just charge vat to the hooker. Cuts out a lot of paperwork.

shruikan2553

spikeS wrote: »

The rape percentage is only so high cause they import so much diversity it's just the country's rape equilibrium finding it's place with their new culture

Or it could be they calculate the statistics differently than other places.

My name is URL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orcymx2B4Uw

spikeS

shruikan2553 wrote: »

Or it could be they calculate the statistics differently than other places.

Nope look up most of the rape increase is due to the high diversity imported into Sweden

Gatling

spikeS wrote: »

Nope look up most of the rape increase is due to the high diversity imported into Sweden

So your saying rapes are down to immigration

spikeS

Gatling wrote: »

So your saying rapes are down to immigration

Nope rape and murder have increase significantly with the new diverse culture of modern Sweden

Gatling

spikeS wrote: »

Nope rape and murder have increase significantly with the new diverse culture of modern Sweden

As opposed to the old culture of Sweden

spikeS

Gatling wrote: »

As opposed to the old culture of Sweden

Yes as opposed to undiversed Sweden, diversity is truly a gift that Sweden have imbraced

shruikan2553

spikeS wrote: »

Nope look up most of the rape increase is due to the high diversity imported into Sweden

Im sure you can contribute here with your evidence that its the foreigners raping them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_Sweden

Gatling

spikeS wrote: »

Yes as opposed to undiversed Sweden, diversity is truly a gift that Sweden have imbraced

Diversity due to immigration

spikeS

Gatling wrote: »

Diversity due to immigration

Yes they imported their new diverse culture

spikeS

shruikan2553 wrote: »

Im sure you can contribute here with your evidence that its the foreigners raping them.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_Sweden

That show rape went up significantly when they started importing culture in 2007

Banjo String

Scania R series ftw.

Underground

I thought this thread was going to be about the swedish economic model: higher taxes,slower,more sustainable growth,free education etc.

To answer the OP though,no I wouldn't agree with their view on prostitution criminalisation at all.

Ozymandius2011

It must be asked why all the political parties support this, and why Ruhama receives 90% of its funding from the taxpayer (in 2007 at least)?

jimgoose

Prostitution should be completely illegal, full-stop. It invariably and inevitably leads to abuse and misery, mainly of girls, even in Germany which is usually held up as the liberal leading-light in this area. Like fcuk like.

shruikan2553

spikeS wrote: »

That show rape went up significantly when they started importing culture in 2007

Windows vista was released in 2007. Coincidence? I think not.

Smiles35

I suppose they must have a reason.

Ozymandius2011

jimgoose wrote: »

Prostitution should be completely illegal, full-stop. It invariably and inevitably leads to abuse and misery, mainly of girls, even in Germany which is usually held up as the liberal leading-light in this area. Like fcuk like.

We are all against child prostitution. What is wrong is equating it with adult prostitution. Adults can consent whereas children cannot.

jimgoose

Ozymandius2011 wrote: »

We are all against child prostitution. What is wrong is equating it with adult prostitution. Adults can consent whereas children cannot.

I said "Prostitution". Full-stop.

hfallada

I find it weird how all women working in the sex industry are "victims". These organisations believe all these women are trafficked or work in the industry due to poverty. Yet they never work with men in the sex industry. They are completely ignore, even though they are exist. Also studies in the UK show there is a sizeable amount of women working in the sex industry with a third level degree. They choose to work in the sex industry due to better pay than in other fields of work.

Legalisation and regulation is the only way to deal with matters like soft drugs, porn, prostitution. Just criminalising something, doesnt make the problem go away eg. marijuana

Ozymandius2011

The composition of Ruhama's board of trustees includes 3 nuns - one third of the membership. What is Ruhama's agenda? To stop "trafficking" (how many convictions have their been for trafficking - I think zero) or to turn back the clock? Ruhama's funding sources are here. Why are taxpayer's money going to this astroturf NGO? Perhaps to create an illusion of public support for the Swedish model.

DoYouEvenLift

Best of luck driving prostitution rings even further underground where even worse abuse and victims will be the result

Venus In Furs

Think it should be legalised in order to protect the workers, and I don't think purchasing of sex deserves criminalisation - it being illegal is hardly protecting workers, it just leads to unregulated businesses, but I also think there should be supports for people who want to get out of it.
It's not true that they're all trafficked, supporting a drug habit and so on, but it's not true that they all decide this is the job they'd like to do in the conventional sense either.

The Diabolical Monocle

jimgoose wrote: »

Prostitution should be completely illegal, full-stop. It invariably and inevitably leads to abuse and misery, mainly of girls, even in Germany which is usually held up as the liberal leading-light in this area. Like fcuk like.

But all male-female heterosexual relations are based on a woman trading sex for something.

ok not all ... .just 99.9999%

NachoBusiness

I have never heard of a prostitute that worked from her own apartment, independent of an agency, being prosecuted in Ireland and so isn't that a nod and a wink that it is somewhat tolerated here. I'd also think that if such a prostitute was robbed or assaulted by a client, the authorities wouldn't automatically prosecute them for volunteering that information. Perhaps I'm wrong but have only ever seen those running brothels or taking part in them ever getting charged.

Falthyron

I am not sure legalised prostitution and brothels would solve the issue of rape. To my understanding, rape is more of an issue to do with power, than it is to do with sexual pleasure. It is about the idea of control and dominance over another human being and being able to inflict pain on that person. If we imagine the dominance as the sexual gratification, there is none to be had from a prostitute who willingly offers sex for money, therefore no attraction for the potential rapist.

SeanW

Ozymandius2011 wrote: »

Do you support this idea, which has been pushed by Ruhama for years? Did you know that Ruhama's trustees are the Sisters of Charity and Sisters of Mercy, which ran the Magdalene launderies? Is it not ironic that the religious orders - which are refusing to compensate the Magdalene women - are now posing as defenders of women's rights? And what about the rights of women who choose to be prostitutes? And indeed male prostitutes?

It would be a mistake to blame the Catholic Church here, yes Ruhama has been beating the drum for this.

But this model could never have come so far as it has done without the emphatic, vocal support of the feminist-left (hello Ivana Bacik). The radfems have been having it pretty much their own way these last few years, the introduction of the Swedish model, steep gender quotas in politics, specific tax breaks etc.

Additionally, on some issues (like this) feminists are indistinguishable from the religious-right.

And this is not a new phenomenon. It goes back at least as far as the 1980s when Andrea Dworkin was a key witness before the Meese Commission hearings under the socially conservatives, which preceeded one of the worst abrogations of the First Amendment in American history.

Closer to home, our Nordy cousins experienced the same phenomenon. Sinn Fein and the DUP can't agree on anything. Flegs, parades, dealing with the past, the budget, nothing. Except implementing the Swedish model there too, where Sinn Fein and the DUP were in absolute 100% agreement.

Ozymandius2011

SeanW wrote: »

It would be a mistake to blame the Catholic Church here, yes Ruhama has been beating the drum for this.

But this model could never have come so far as it has done without the emphatic, vocal support of the feminist-left (hello Ivana Bacik). The radfems have been having it pretty much their own way these last few years, the introduction of the Swedish model, steep gender quotas in politics, specific tax breaks etc.

Additionally, on some issues (like this) feminists are indistinguishable from the religious-right.

And this is not a new phenomenon. It goes back at least as far as the 1980s when Andrea Dworkin was a key witness before the Meese Commission hearings under the socially conservatives, which preceeded one of the worst abrogations of the First Amendment in American history.

Closer to home, our Nordy cousins experienced the same phenomenon. Sinn Fein and the DUP can't agree on anything. Flegs, parades, dealing with the past, the budget, nothing. Except implementing the Swedish model there too, where Sinn Fein and the DUP were in absolute 100% agreement.

Ironically Bacik used to favour decriminalisation years ago.

paleoperson

I feel like this whole idea of "the swedish model" is a brand name and a bit of a gimmick. Anything that comes from Sweden sounds like it would be at the forefront of women's movements, so as if this is working for women and not against them. The progressive, modernized movement, rather than the backwards likes of Ruhama and other religious groups scrambling for last shreds of power.

The gimmick of course is the idea that the punter would be the one in trouble, thus saving the prostitute from the ignominy of breaking the law, something that will mean feck all to any real prostitute.