Time for a New Adventure

Neady83

Monday PM

6.07miles, 57:37, 9:30/mi
My DCM plan called for 6miles so 6miles it was. I didn't enjoy this as much as Sundays run and I was going to call it a day at mile 5 but because it's on the plan I stuck with it and got the 6 in. I'm calling it a recovery run because I think my legs are still tired from the Street of Galway 8km and there's still a bit of the Beast lurking around in there.

Tuesday AM

10 minute warm up on the watttbike before circuits 4x1minute
Circuit
1) Kneeling down, throw medicine ball followed & do a push up
2) Front lunge with medicine ball over my head
3) One knee Russian twist with a medicine ball
4) Walking squats with 10kg weight for company
5) Ropes & abs roller
6) Kettle bell swings and lifts over the head
7) Three cones/ play tag with partner. Lots of short sharp bursts of energy
8) Mountain climbers with dyna bands

Tough session but good core workout

Tuesday PM

Club intervals: 8x4mins (60sec recovery), 6.55miles, 57:24

1 mile WU
4 mins (0.50 miles)
1 rec
4 mins (0.53 miles)
1 rec
4 mins (0.52 miles)
1 rec
4 mins (0.52 miles)
1 rec
4 mins (0.54 miles)
1 rec
4 mins (0.52 miles)
1 rec
4 mins (0.51 miles)
1 rec
4 mins (0.51 miles)
1 mile WD

I was with the girls I usually run with but wasn't quite able to keep the pace for the last two so I knew the distances would fall short. We did a similar session back in early June and I was covering 0.53 - 0.54 miles in the 4 minutes back then so I was a little off the pace tonight.

Neady83

Wednesday

5 miles, 44:38, 8:55/mile
This was an out and back run on the prom. I was well entertained by the leaving certs not very discretely drinking their buckfast and falling off their high heels.

Thursday

15 minutes on the wattbike warming up before circuits.
Circuits: 8 circuits – 4x1minute

Most of these were done with dyna bands just to add an extra element of toughness.

Friday

6 miles, 54:35, 9:06/mile


Saturday

115km/72mile cycle, 5:00
NUI Galway – Moycullen – Oughterard – Maam Cross – Casla – Seanafeistin – Oughterard – Moycullen – Galway

My friend Annette asked me to do this one with her though I had warned her that my legs might not be up to it and up to it they were not. On the first itsy bitsy excuse for a hill my thighs burned. I could short course it at Moycullen and make I 50km instead but when we got there I was feeling ok, suffering on the climbs but ok on the flats.

By the time we got to Maam Cross (30ish miles) I was cooked though. We had a nice train going with a guy but I kept falling off the back of the choo choo. I was worried I wouldn’t be able for the rest and I could see that Annette thought I was cooked too. I pleaded with her to head on without me but she insisted on staying. I took two ibuprofen to take away the aches ( I don’t normally do this in case it masks and injury but this was just aches) and drank some nuun drink and off we went. I picked up a lot after this and was happy to grab some pasta and cicken when we stopped for 10 minutes at Casla.

Next up was Seanafeistin, a climb we’d been hearing lots of people talk/complain about. It wasn’t so much a mountain as lots and lots of rolling hills and I really loved it especially as some energy came into my legs and I was able to keep up with Annette. There was a big descent into Oughterard and we had been warned that the surface was uneven and there were some hairy bends so I stayed low, lost Annette, and got better acquainted with my brakes, I’m such a wuss (had watched this too many time on Friday https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRM3bFXlyNk).

The cycle back to Galway city was fun as we slotted in with a nice group from Wicklow. Back in Galway the organisers had some nummy BBQ burgers waiting for us so we all sat on the grass with the warm sun beating down on us and enjoyed the banter.

I’m not sure if it’s my lack of biking or whether the Beast is still playing havoc with my legs but I was way off the pace today. Annette and I were doing 4:00 minute miles in June on much steeper terrain compared to 4:15 minute miles today – hopefully I can work on this.

Sunday

13 miles, 2:00, 9:18/mile
I did this Whest Clare style and my Dad was very good to do a water drop for me as I knew it was going to be a warm one. I was dam glad of the water mixed with some electrolytes at mile 8. I threw in some miles at HMP for good measure though I nearly died on mile 13. I don’t know how I’m going to double this distance in 10 weeks.

Weekly Totals

Running: 5:34 (37 miles)
Circuits: 2:00
Cycling : 5:00 (72 miles)
Wattbike: 1:00

Total: 13:34hours

shotgunmcos

Jaysus 13 hours. You are back at it already! If its any consolation I needed a nap after a 90 minute steady MTB today :cool:

career move

I'm sorry to be an interfering old witch but you are running way too fast. Pace for a 4:30 marathon is 10:16, 4:15 is 9:45 and 4hr is 9:08 all with a 30sec buffer. So practically all your runs are at marathon pace or faster. Sometimes way faster. That's not how you should be training for a marathon. You need to run slower than MP to build endurance and get your fat burning into gear or you are going to hit the wall big time.

Nice cycle btw

mossym

career move wrote: »

I'm sorry to be an interfering old witch but you are running way too fast. Pace for a 4:30 marathon is 10:16, 4:15 is 9:45 and 4hr is 9:08 all with a 30sec buffer. So practically all your runs are at marathon pace or faster. Sometimes way faster. That's not how you should be training for a marathon. You need to run slower than MP to build endurance and get your fat burning into gear or you are going to hit the wall big time.

Nice cycle btw

or take the other option and drop your goal time.

Neady83

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Jaysus 13 hours. You are back at it already! If its any consolation I needed a nap after a 90 minute steady MTB today :cool:

It sort of snowballed into 13 hours phew, heres hoping this Beastie tiredness gets kicked in the ass soon

annapr

career move wrote: »

I'm sorry to be an interfering old witch but you are running way too fast. Pace for a 4:30 marathon is 10:16, 4:15 is 9:45 and 4hr is 9:08 all with a 30sec buffer. So practically all your runs are at marathon pace or faster. Sometimes way faster. That's not how you should be training for a marathon. You need to run slower than MP to build endurance and get your fat burning into gear or you are going to hit the wall big time.

Nice cycle btw

+1 especially the long runs. I think 4:30 is a very conservative target for you, but even if you aim for 4:00 as CM says, your long runs should be around 9:45/min.

Having said that, your endurance is amazing, between cycling and everything else so soon after the beast!

Neady83

career move wrote: »

I'm sorry to be an interfering old witch but you are running way too fast. Pace for a 4:30 marathon is 10:16, 4:15 is 9:45 and 4hr is 9:08 all with a 30sec buffer. So practically all your runs are at marathon pace or faster. Sometimes way faster. That's not how you should be training for a marathon. You need to run slower than MP to build endurance and get your fat burning into gear or you are going to hit the wall big time.

Nice cycle btw

mossym wrote: »

or take the other option and drop your goal time.

All advice welcome CM, thank you You're bang on the money, yesterdays run was way too fast, it's no wonder I was bo***xed by the end of it. I find it very difficult to judge my pace but I just checked my watch settings and I can set it to warm me when I go over or below a certain pace so I might try that.

Mossy, good point. Maybe I need to be more realistic and aim for a 4 hour marathon. My marathon pace should be 9:08 so training runs should be 9:30 - 9:45?

Neady83

annapr wrote: »

+1 especially the long runs. I think 4:30 is a very conservative target for you, but even if you aim for 4:00 as CM says, your long runs should be around 9:45/min.

Having said that, your endurance is amazing, between cycling and everything else so soon after the beast!

You beat me to it, thanks Anna. I'm going to aim for a 4 hour marathon and really slow down my long runs

annapr

Neady83 wrote: »

You beat me to it, thanks Anna. I'm going to aim for a 4 hour marathon and really slow down my long runs

Good woman, you should be in with a great shot at that. and as we keep getting told around here, you can't go too slow on an LSR!!

career move

Your race times, in particular your HM suggest a 4hr marathon should be well within your capabilities I suppose just to remember a couple of things. The Beast was tough and it may yet bite you in the ass as regards fatigue especially when you up the distance of the long run. Also you have great endurance but it's not run endurance and it's not for your run muscles. I think you need to be very strict about your run pace for the next few weeks and it won't be easy because you're comfortable running at a faster pace so it will feel quite slow.

nop98

annapr wrote: »

Good woman, you should be in with a great shot at that. and as we keep getting told around here, you can't go too slow on an LSR!!

+1. I'll cling to your coat-tails for 4h!

Almost all DCM novices are struggling with slowing down their pace. You should almost aim for, and be proud to run (for example) 5M in 50 minutes. The weird thing is that it does seem to work. Most (me included) are now running further and longer than before.

Another thing to consider is to reduce the amount of cross-training (maybe just in the next 10 weeks). One day is fine, but 5 days of running and one rest day don't leave much room for anything else.

Neady83

nop98 wrote: »

+1. I'll cling to your coat-tails for 4h!

Almost all DCM novices are struggling with slowing down their pace. You should almost aim for, and be proud to run (for example) 5M in 50 minutes. The weird thing is that it does seem to work. Most (me included) are now running further and longer than before.

Another thing to consider is to reduce the amount of cross-training (maybe just in the next 10 weeks). One day is fine, but 5 days of running and one rest day don't leave much room for anything else.

Thanks for the advice Nop, it's very much appreciated I will do much better with my runs this week and hopefully they will be as fun as yours

Going to cut down on the cross training this week too, it's kinda difficult after doing nothing but for the past 9 months but I'm sure I'll find something else to do with my time

aquinn

I can't believe you are back out training and now DCM. I'd still be in bed or limping about shoving nurofen into me. Some experience, I'd hate it but you were incredible. I thought reading Coast to Coast was tough. Wow, well done. Now SLOW DOWN!

Neady83

aquinn wrote: »

I can't believe you are back out training and now DCM. I'd still be in bed or limping about shoving nurofen into me. Some experience, I'd hate it but you were incredible. I thought reading Coast to Coast was tough. Wow, well done. Now SLOW DOWN!

Thank you Seriously though, you'd love it I didn't think I would and I do, it's so addictive. I never though it would be this difficult to slow down but I'm getting there

Neady83

Monday

Rest

Tuesday

Session with the club that called for:
1 mile wu
5x6minutes (90 sec recovery)
1 mile wd

This was a disaster from start to finish. I warmed up and tucked in behind the girls I usually run with. We ticked along nicely for the first interval but on the last minute of the second I fell away, I had nothing in my legs and I was really unmotivated to dig deep and catch them. I was able to keep with them for half of the third interval and then I fell away completely in the second half. On the fourth and fifth, I had given up mentally and physically and was literally crawling along with everyone passing me by. I was quite annoyed heading for home but there was no point in letting it ruin my week completely so hit the hay and tried to put it behind me.

5.94 miles in total in 52:42

Wednesday

5 miles, 48 minutes, 9:36/mi
I did this on the treadmill before a circuit class. Running on the treadmill is soooooooo boring but on the upside, it's so much easier to control the pace.

Circuits: 4x60 seconds x 7 stations

1) Medicine ball slams & side jumps
2) Boxing
3) Dead lifts with barbell & weights
4) Ropes: 8 slams & 2 squats
5) Backward lunges with kettle bell lifts
6) Kickboxing
7) medicine ball throwing game type thing

Thursday AM

2 miles on the treadmill, 20:00, 10:00/mile

Circuits: 6x40 seconds x 7 stations

1) Boxing
2) Squat clean and press with 10kg dumbbells
3) Soft squishy medicine ball throwing game, works the core
4) Kettle bell swings & forward lunges with a kettle bell
5) Planks - those ones where you shimmy your toes way way back and stretch as far as you can, groan
6) Playing foot tag with cones that weren't spread very far apart, a really dynamic station
7) Ropes: 12 smacks & 4 power lunges, double groan

Dilbert75

So how did you feel Wed and Thur?

Neady83

Dilbert75 wrote: »

So how did you feel Wed and Thur?

I felt so much better on Wednesday and Thursday, thanks Dilbert. I waited until Wednesday evening to do the 5 miles & circuits so I had 24 hours recovery and a good sleep. Mind you my runs since Tuesday have been at a slow pace and the circuits are more about strength which I have plenty of.

The circuit classes always get me back on track mentally, there's something about holding planks and lifting dumbbells that pushes me to keep going. I haven't done anything with pace since Tuesday though.

I'm wondering if it's any training that requires an increase in pace that I'm not able for - last weekends cycle and this weeks interval session.

Neady83

Thursday PM

7.28miles, 1:12, 9:52/mile
After reading the Garmin manual for the first time and fiddling with my watch for ages, I finally set it to vibrate if I went slower than 10:00min miles and faster than 9:30min miles. Out the gap and the bloody thing was vibrating every 5 seconds, too fast, slow down, too slow, speed up, too fast and on and on. I was concentrating on nothing but the watch and not able to set a consistent pace so after half a mile or so I stopped and shut off the buzzer telling me when I was going too slow - keeping the boardsies advice in my head that I can never go too slow.

It took me about two miles to settle into a consistent pace and the watch finally stopped buzzing. I had only planned 5 miles but I was feeling good and enjoying figuring this new slower pace out so I kept on motoring for 7ish miles.

Friday

4 miles, 39:40, 9:54/mile
I did this sleepy style before work. I had no problem slowing this one down. My legs don't tend to want to go too fast after dragging them out of bed and straight into a pair of runners.

aquinn

Neady83 wrote: »

Thursday PM

7.28miles, 1:12, 9:52/mile
After reading the Garmin manual for the first time and fiddling with my watch for ages, I finally set it to vibrate if I went slower than 10:00min miles and faster than 9:30min miles. Out the gap and the bloody thing was vibrating every 5 seconds, too fast, slow down, too slow, speed up, too fast and on and on. I was concentrating on nothing but the watch and not able to set a consistent pace so after half a mile or so I stopped and shut off the buzzer telling me when I was going too slow - keeping the boardsies advice in my head that I can never go too slow.
.

I tried this recently and it nearly broke me and sent the watch flying. I changed it to no slower than 10:10 and it was much better. It takes me a few miles to settle but the fast/slow pace and constant buzzing was too much.

Neady83

aquinn wrote: »

I tried this recently and it nearly broke me and sent the watch flying. I changed it to no slower than 10:10 and it was much better. It takes me a few miles to settle but the fast/slow pace and constant buzzing was too much.

Thanks for the tip, I did just that at the weekend and there was much less cursing and blinding at my watch

Neady83

Saturday

15.17 miles LSR, 2:25, 9:39/mi
Himself said that he wouldn't mind stretching the legs and doing some of this with me so I mapped out a 6 mile loop around the city that took in some nice hills (Taylors Hill) and included a length of the prom for entertainment/distraction purposes I have a love hate relationship with running the prom: I love people watching so it's a great distraction as there's always lots of people walking it, I love the smell of the salty air and I like that it's flat. On the other hand I dislike that it's flat because it's boring in parts, there's always fast runners on it so it's very tempting to take off after them and it's concrete and there's gentle waves in stretches of the concrete that can be hard on the legs.

Off we set with me warning himself that this was to be very very slow. It was great to have company and we chatted away though I had to tell him quite often to wow wow wow, slow it down The first six miles passed quite quickly and were quite uneventful, I dropped him off and kept on going for lap two. I had a bottle of water with an electrolyte tablet stashed inside the door of the house and planned on taking a swig of it when I came around the second time.

Taylors hill was a bit more taxing the second time around so it was easy to keep the pace low. People watching on the prom was a nice distraction but I was starting to get thirsty so at mile 10, passing a shop, I stopped & used my emergency €2 on a bottle of water. 500mls and 2 dextro tablets down the hatch I was off again. I stopped using gels and switched to natural food during the beast training and only used natural food during the beast so I'm going to see how marathon training goes without gels though I may have to resort to them for the longer runs but for now, I'm good with water & electrolytes.

When I finished the second loop I continued to the top of Taylors Hill via Westside so that I would have the advantage of a nice descent down Taylors for the last mile and a bit. The two miles after 13 were tough mentally because it's the first time I've covered this distance on my own (mostly on my own). It's a whole new ball game not having teamies with me all the time.

Was happy to be done and have another LSR in the bag

Sunday

5 miles recovery, 50:13, 10:02/mile
Nice and easy 5 miles

Weekly Totals

Running: 7:07 (44.5 miles)
Circuits: 2:00

Total: 9:07 hours

nop98

Well done on the LSR, and equally well done on a very nice and slow 5M recovery!

sconhome

Well done Neady.

annapr

nop98 wrote: »

Well done on the LSR, and equally well done on a very nice and slow 5M recovery!

+1 on the LSR....

BUT I think your pace is still too fast... for a target 4:00 marathon, vdot calculator suggests 10:00-10:35 for easy runs and recovery should be at the slower end of that again.

I only know this of course because I was chastised myself recently by someone more knowledgeable!

Dory Dory

I have always had a tendency to go too fast on my LSRs, it seems so counterintuitive, but you're getting there!!! And I'd suggest you do your runs with whatever nutrition you plan to consume on the day....which, I would imagine, will indeed be the gels. Train the way you will race.

sconhome

I knew there was something I was going to ask...

Are you using a Heart Rate monitor with your Garmin? That's possibly the best way to target your training paces and effort. I'm not a big fan of pace based training as it does not account for fatigue caused by cross training or work or any-other stressor.

Neady83

annapr wrote: »

+1 on the LSR....

BUT I think your pace is still too fast... for a target 4:00 marathon, vdot calculator suggests 10:00-10:35 for easy runs and recovery should be at the slower end of that again.

I only know this of course because I was chastised myself recently by someone more knowledgeable!

Thanks Anna, yikes, still to fast. I hadn't heard of the vdot calculator before, thanks for the pointing me in it's direction. I was using guess work to figure out my easy and recovery pacing - will slow down more

Dory Dory wrote: »

I have always had a tendency to go too fast on my LSRs, it seems so counterintuitive, but you're getting there!!! And I'd suggest you do your runs with whatever nutrition you plan to consume on the day....which, I would imagine, will indeed be the gels. Train the way you will race.

Thanks DD, maybe I'll try one gel towards the end of my long run this weekend and see how it agrees or disagrees with me

AKW wrote: »

I knew there was something I was going to ask...

Are you using a Heart Rate monitor with your Garmin? That's possibly the best way to target your training paces and effort. I'm not a big fan of pace based training as it does not account for fatigue caused by cross training or work or any-other stressor.

I don't use a heart rate monitor, I don't have one. Himself has one though, I could dig it out and give it a go. Does it matter that I haven't done lactate threshold testing to figure out my maximum heart rate? Easy and long runs should be done at 65 - 75% of MHR right?

aquinn

Neady83 wrote: »

I don't use a heart rate monitor, I don't have one. Himself has one though, I could dig it out and give it a go. Does it matter that I haven't done lactate threshold testing to figure out my maximum heart rate? Easy and long runs should be done at 65 - 75% of MHR right?

I've only used the HRM once. There are a few ways to establish your max HR, the Novices thread has mentioned it a few times so will try and dig it out. You can also try it on a race so I did a Parkrun to test mine so maybe try that?

Neady83

Monday

Rest yeaeeeeeeee

Tuesday AM

Circuits: 8 station, 5x45 seconds on each
This involved lots of forward lunges, reverse lunges, walking lunges and squats. Needless to say my legs were a bit shot coming down the stairs after the class.

Tuesday PM

5 Miles Easy, 47:48, 9:30/mi
This was supposed to be a session with the club but my legs were stiff from circuits and I'd had a three course lunch/dinner at work so I was barely able to waddle. This was done quite late and in the dark. I quite like running when it's dark so I really enjoyed it though I realise now that my pace was too fast for an easy run. Will do better today