5x5. how to start

tom_tarbucket

hi

im about to start 5x5 stronglifts after sbout a 6 month break.
I have done weights on and off for about 10 years. have benched 100 kg x 5 times so not a total amateur : )
my weight is 90 kg.

so the 5x5 stronglifts website says to START with sn empty bar for all exercises...... if not sure of your ability.

However for bench I was thinking of starting with 40kg as im kinda used to that.

squat was thinking of starting with 30kg......as not used to it.

row thinking of starting with 30kg.

deadlift thinking of starting with 30kg


how do these sound ?

should I start my row at same weight as bench for symmetry ?
should I start even heavier on bench ?

should I start deadlift with 40 kg ?

just a bit confused. as sn example, I think me starting bench at 20kg is just too light. but then maybe it needs to be to keep in line with the row......although I doubt im gonna be able to keep my row up with my bench press weight.

what a waffle. ........hope ye get what I mean

Mellor

Bench at 4okg and Row at 30kg sounds fine. They'll increase together and eventually it'll be 90kg/80kg.

If you are going to start with 30kg on squat, you might as well start with 20kg. It's increases quickly and only takes a few days to get to 30kg.
With deadlift. You'll prob need 10kgs on each side to get the bar to the right height. Perhaps larger, depending on availible equipment.

Ri_Nollaig

It says it on the site that you can start at 50% your 1 rep max if you want to. But either way it you are completing the 3 workouts per week it will not take long to get to a challenging weight.

You can also increase the deadlift by 5kg instead of 2.5kg per session until you break 100kg.

tom_tarbucket

Thanks Mellor and Ri

I suppose the way im thinking is, if I do indeed start the bench at 40kg and then the squat at 20kg and row at 30kg.

In a few months if all goes well, ill be

benching 100kg
squatting 80kg
rowing 90kg

is it not better to have your squat heavier than your bench ?

and im thinking rowing 90kg will be tricky enough, never did it much before.

so with all that said, would I not be better off starting bench at 20kg also, just to keep things kinda even .

Alf Veedersane

tom_tarbucket wrote: »

I suppose the way im thinking is, if I do indeed start the bench at 40kg and then the squat at 20kg and row at 30kg.

In a few months if all goes well, ill be

benching 100kg
squatting 80kg
rowing 90kg

Not sure how you work that out.

Over a 4 week cycle, you will have squatted 12 times, adding 2.5kg each time so 4 weeks in, you'd be squatting 47.5kg after starting at 20kg.

You'll have benched 6 times, so starting at 40kg, you'll be at 52.5kg.

8 weeks in and you'll be squatting 77.5kg and benching 67.5kg.

You'd hit a squat of 100kg at the 11-week mark and that week your bench will be at 80kg.

Mellor

There's a mistake in you numbers there. They don't increase at the same rate.
You are squatting twice as often as the other lifts, so it increases twice as fast. By the time you are bench reaches 60kg, your squat will too.
Deadlift increases by 5kg each session, so it will be 80kg at that point.

Edit:Alf got there first. Same point though

tom_tarbucket

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Not sure how you work that out.

Over a 4 week cycle, you will have squatted 12 times, adding 2.5kg each time so 4 weeks in, you'd be squatting 47.5kg after starting at 20kg.

You'll have benched 6 times, so starting at 40kg, you'll be at 52.5kg.

8 weeks in and you'll be squatting 77.5kg and benching 67.5kg.

You'd hit a squat of 100kg at the 11-week mark and that week your bench will be at 80kg.

ooops, yeah , sorry, flippant of me, forgot the squat is happening every night........spanner. THANKS

tom_tarbucket

I know he says in his videos and pointed out by mellor to start the row and deadlift with 10kg's either side to get the bar at right height.

but im not too used to rows or deadlifts and havent done them much before so want to work on technique before starting with 40kg
so was thinking of starting with 20 kg......and resting the empty bar on the saftey bar on the power rack at a proper height.........so it would be teh same height as with a proper sized plate on,.

would this work ?

Mellor

That should work fine. In that case deadlift will increase alongside squat.

tom_tarbucket

Mellor wrote: »

That should work fine. In that case deadlift will increase alongside squat.

Thanks Mellor. will have to try and get the safety bar on power rack at the perfect height now so as its a copy of the bar resting on ground with the full size plate on : )

Alf Veedersane

There might be 5kg bumper plates.

tom_tarbucket

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

There might be 5kg bumper plates.

is that like a 5kg plate thats really tall in height and the same size as the big plates ?

Alf Veedersane

tom_tarbucket wrote: »

is that like a 5kg plate thats really tall in height and the same size as the big plates ?

Yup. Usually slim black plates about 18" in diameter.

tom_tarbucket

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Yup. Usually slim black plates about 18" in diameter.

right yeah, they don't have them in 5kg's, they start at 10kgs in my gym.......last time i was there anyway

tom_tarbucket

tom_tarbucket wrote: »

Thanks Mellor. will have to try and get the safety bar on power rack at the perfect height now so as its a copy of the bar resting on ground with the full size plate on : )

anybody know offhand if there is a height of the safety bar on a power rack what would replicate the height of the bar on the ground with weights, I cant even remember if the safety bar in a power rack goes this low.

Mr. CooL ICE

tom_tarbucket wrote: »

anybody know offhand if there is a height of the safety bar on a power rack what would replicate the height of the bar on the ground with weights, I cant even remember if the safety bar in a power rack goes this low.

Not all power racks are the same so it depends. In mine, the lowest bar setting leaves the large plates 1 inch from the ground.

tom_tarbucket

Nicolas Cage wrote: »

Not all power racks are the same so it depends. In mine, the lowest bar setting leaves the large plates 1 inch from the ground.

Thanks for reply.

evo2000

tom_tarbucket wrote: »

hi

im about to start 5x5 stronglifts after sbout a 6 month break.
I have done weights on and off for about 10 years. have benched 100 kg x 5 times so not a total amateur : )
my weight is 90 kg.

so the 5x5 stronglifts website says to START with sn empty bar for all exercises...... if not sure of your ability.

However for bench I was thinking of starting with 40kg as im kinda used to that.

squat was thinking of starting with 30kg......as not used to it.

row thinking of starting with 30kg.

deadlift thinking of starting with 30kg


how do these sound ?

should I start my row at same weight as bench for symmetry ?
should I start even heavier on bench ?

should I start deadlift with 40 kg ?

just a bit confused. as sn example, I think me starting bench at 20kg is just too light. but then maybe it needs to be to keep in line with the row......although I doubt im gonna be able to keep my row up with my bench press weight.

what a waffle. ........hope ye get what I mean

Pay a Personal Trainer 80 euro an hour you will see magical results people swear by them

Mellor

tom_tarbucket wrote: »

anybody know offhand if there is a height of the safety bar on a power rack what would replicate the height of the bar on the ground with weights, I cant even remember if the safety bar in a power rack goes this low.

The exact height is 211mm from the ground (to the underside). Obviously you can;t get that precise, but find what ever hole is closests.

Even though I warm up with the 20kg bar first. I don;t feel like im in the right position until I've a bit of weight on the bar. Tbh. you'd be just as well using the the 10kg bumper plates and starting on 40kg. Or, getting there as sooner by making 10kg increase the first two times..

Brian?

evo2000 wrote: »

Pay a Personal Trainer 80 euro an hour you will see magical results people swear by them

infracted for trolling.

tom_tarbucket

Mellor wrote: »

The exact height is 211mm from the ground (to the underside). Obviously you can;t get that precise, but find what ever hole is closests.

Even though I warm up with the 20kg bar first. I don;t feel like im in the right position until I've a bit of weight on the bar. Tbh. you'd be just as well using the the 10kg bumper plates and starting on 40kg. Or, getting there as sooner by making 10kg increase the first two times..

I gave it a blasht last night.
In regard to the barbell row.........
The lowest bar on the power rack was just too high.
I then balanced the bar on one of those small plastic benches and did it that way, but it just didn't feel right. ( this was exact height a full size plate would have been when resting on ground in the barbell)
but it just didnt feel right, would be way better with the proper full size plates......wont be long before I get to 10 kg bumper plates anyway : )

also, im 6ft 2, sometimes felt last night as if I was stretching too far down to rest the bar bell again.

Would I need to compensate for my height by not going down as far ? ( or maybe im just doing it wrong ))


I see some lads and they have these foam pads that they rest the plates on each time they do a squat or whatever.

Alf Veedersane

tom_tarbucket wrote: »

also, im 6ft 2, sometimes felt last night as if I was stretching too far down to rest the bar bell again.

Would I need to compensate for my height by not going down as far ? ( or maybe im just doing it wrong ))

Are you talking about setting the bar down between reps or at the end of a set?

tom_tarbucket

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Are you talking about setting the bar down between reps or at the end of a set?

between reps, just for a second like.

Alf Veedersane

tom_tarbucket wrote: »

between reps, just for a second like.

They sound kinda like pendlay rows (nothing wrong with that). It's hard to know how to suggest what to do without seeing what you're doing.

Brian?

tom_tarbucket wrote: »

I gave it a blasht last night.
In regard to the barbell row.........
The lowest bar on the power rack was just too high.
I then balanced the bar on one of those small plastic benches and did it that way, but it just didn't feel right. ( this was exact height a full size plate would have been when resting on ground in the barbell)
but it just didnt feel right, would be way better with the proper full size plates......wont be long before I get to 10 kg bumper plates anyway : )

also, im 6ft 2, sometimes felt last night as if I was stretching too far down to rest the bar bell again.

Would I need to compensate for my height by not going down as far ? ( or maybe im just doing it wrong ))


I see some lads and they have these foam pads that they rest the plates on each time they do a squat or whatever.

We're the same height. You don't need to compensate/cheat in any way. 90% of lads you see doing BB rows in the gym are doing them wrong.

IMO BB rows should be done like this:

http://youtu.be/ZlRrIsoDpKg

Brian?

OP, you self taught on the squat, deadlift etc. .

If you don't want to pay for coaching, video yourself and through them up here. Forget getting stronger until you have your technique bang on.

I have philosophical differences with strong lifts 5x5 by the way, but it's not the worst program you can follow.

DipStick McSwindler

This post has been deleted.

tom_tarbucket

IrishFeeney92 wrote: »

This x100. Technique and form over weight anyday. Egos have to take a hit for this but you will be better off for it!

yeah, that's why im starting light to try and get the technique right before anything

evo2000

Brian? wrote: »

infracted for trolling.

Haha desperate much?

How is that trolling? for one its correct up to date information, its completely relevant to the topic at hand, the prices are from the creme le creme of boards.ie PTs, who exactly am i provoking?

But hey, keep trying to ban me, you ll be waiting kid

Brian?

evo2000 wrote: »

Haha desperate much?

How is that trolling? for one its correct up to date information, its completely relevant to the topic at hand, the prices are from the creme le creme of boards.ie PTs, who exactly am i provoking?

But hey, keep trying to ban me, you ll be waiting kid

banned for trolling. I don't wait around.

tom_tarbucket

so ive been tippin away at this and trying to master technique. they make it look so feckin easy on you tube but when you go to do it then its a pain. .......head up, chest up, engage glutes (don't really know what this means) hips back, tense your core, look straight ahead and then after all this concentrate on breathing.

my question is in regard to the squat. im following what they say. legs shoulder width apart, toes pointing slightly outwards, dont let knees point inwards, kick hips back before starting to move down.........but even with all this, my knees are forward of my toes by a tiny bit when at very bottom of squat.

is it ok to have your knees slightly ahead of your toes at bottom of squat ?

papu

tom_tarbucket wrote: »

so ive been tippin away at this and trying to master technique. they make it look so feckin easy on you tube but when you go to do it then its a pain. .......head up, chest up, engage glutes (don't really know what this means) hips back, tense your core, look straight ahead and then after all this concentrate on breathing.

my question is in regard to the squat. im following what they say. legs shoulder width apart, toes pointing slightly outwards, dont let knees point inwards, kick hips back before starting to move down.........but even with all this, my knees are forward of my toes by a tiny bit when at very bottom of squat.

is it ok to have your knees slightly ahead of your toes at bottom of squat ?

yeah as long as it doesn't cause you any pain , the more your knees go forward though the deeper you're going to have to go to hit parallel. Work on opening up your hips , and pushing your knees out as you descend.

dinorebel

Have started weight training again after a few years away from it problem is I have Shoulder Impingement Syndrome which means I cant bench or shoulder press at any decent weight if anyone has any ideas for alternative lifts for the shoulder and chest which don't use that pressing movement it would be great.

Ri_Nollaig

tom_tarbucket wrote: »

so ive been tippin away at this and trying to master technique. they make it look so feckin easy on you tube but when you go to do it then its a pain. .......head up, chest up, engage glutes (don't really know what this means) hips back, tense your core, look straight ahead and then after all this concentrate on breathing.

my question is in regard to the squat. im following what they say. legs shoulder width apart, toes pointing slightly outwards, dont let knees point inwards, kick hips back before starting to move down.........but even with all this, my knees are forward of my toes by a tiny bit when at very bottom of squat.

is it ok to have your knees slightly ahead of your toes at bottom of squat ?

This video really helped me anyways

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bs_Ej32IYgo

For Stronglifts you are meant to do low-bar squats so skip to that.

But everyone is going to be a bit different, so some of the ques like feet shoulder width appear, toes outwards, etc etc, will vary person to person. Best to just try a bit of everything while the weight is low and find what you are comfortable with.

Also glutes are you arse muscles so squeeze them! Might have heard "retract the scapula" too, means drive the shoulder blades together and down, i.e. imagine trying to force your shoulder blades towards your back pockets.

If you are capable of benching 5 reps of 100KG it wont be long before you are squatting 150+KG ...I'm not envious at all

swimming in a sea

I think its a great workout 5X5, really puts noticeable muscle on. I found I plateaued pretty quickly though, but at the same point I was having trouble finding jeans that fitted as my thighs had got too big so I decided that I'd reached my max on 5x5.

Now I hit my max reduce by 25% and go back to max, I know my days of gains are over but its still a great workout.

tom_tarbucket

Ri_Nollaig wrote: »

This video really helped me anyways

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bs_Ej32IYgo

For Stronglifts you are meant to do low-bar squats so skip to that.

But everyone is going to be a bit different, so some of the ques like feet shoulder width appear, toes outwards, etc etc, will vary person to person. Best to just try a bit of everything while the weight is low and find what you are comfortable with.

Also glutes are you arse muscles so squeeze them! Might have heard "retract the scapula" too, means drive the shoulder blades together and down, i.e. imagine trying to force your shoulder blades towards your back pockets.

If you are capable of benching 5 reps of 100KG it wont be long before you are squatting 150+KG ...I'm not envious at all

So when they say to "engage" your glutes, they actually mean to just squeeze them ?

I just find it hard to squeeze my arse muscles while doing a squat, especially when thinking of all the other things I need to be doing.

it may sound weird but it does not come natural to me, I even tried last night on one set at the end, I said to myself forget about all the ****e and just do it naturally.........and my arse muscles were just relaxed.

I just find it hard to tense my arse muscles when they are just moving down and stuff.


its just a whole new ball game to me really, never really did much squatting or dead lifting etc before, and when I did before I didn't even think about technique

Ri_Nollaig

I only ever "engaged" the glutes [squeezed dat arse!] at the top of the rep? More of a way to ensure you are fully upright and hips back to a straight position.

I found this link before on reddit, some good tips for each of the lifts. Might help

I still think though, that once you aren't doing something obviously wrong, rounding you back/knees collapsing for example, and you are able to comfortably lift the weight and hit parallel you are doing it right.

Everything else just becomes a tip that may or may not apply to you. But I am far from an expert and not even going attempt to pretend to be. My 1 rm squat on a good day would be about 110KG, there are people who warm up on that

tom_tarbucket

Ri_Nollaig wrote: »

I only ever "engaged" the glutes [squeezed dat arse!] at the top of the rep? More of a way to ensure you are fully upright and hips back to a straight position.

I found this link before on reddit, some good tips for each of the lifts. Might help

I still think though, that once you aren't doing something obviously wrong, rounding you back/knees collapsing for example, and you are able to comfortably lift the weight and hit parallel you are doing it right.

Everything else just becomes a tip that may or may not apply to you. But I am far from an expert and not even going attempt to pretend to be. My 1 rm squat on a good day would be about 110KG, there are people who warm up on that

Thanks, jaysus christ. an awful lot to remember in that link for squatting

Tighten-upper back.
Make sure the bar is evenly spaced across your back.
Hands should be in line with forearms and NOT supporting the bar (i.e. keep thumbs over the bar).
Lift chest up and forward and keep it there (don't let it fall).
Keep shoulders back and down.
Keep elbows down.
Head neutral.
Keep bar low on back.
Wide foot stance.
Keep knees out!
Keep weight on HEELS and mid foot (curl toes if necessary to prevent putting weight on balls of feet).
Always keep your back neutral or slightly curved (but NEVER rounded).
At the bottom of your squat, drive up with your ass! (Imagine a chain from the ceiling pulling lower back straight up).
Try to raise chest at same time (i.e. do not turn the lift into a good-morning).
Squeeze dat ass at the top.


tryin to do all that would just drive ya loopy, worse than trying to get a golf swing right.
The one I just cant get is the

At the bottom of your squat, drive up with your ass! (Imagine a chain from the ceiling pulling lower back straight up).


Like to me I can only drive up with my knees, how do you drive up with your arse !!! but im probably thinking about it all wrong

tom_tarbucket

tom_tarbucket wrote: »

so ive been tippin away at this and trying to master technique. they make it look so feckin easy on you tube but when you go to do it then its a pain. .......head up, chest up, engage glutes (don't really know what this means) hips back, tense your core, look straight ahead and then after all this concentrate on breathing.

my question is in regard to the squat. im following what they say. legs shoulder width apart, toes pointing slightly outwards, dont let knees point inwards, kick hips back before starting to move down.........but even with all this, my knees are forward of my toes by a tiny bit when at very bottom of squat.

is it ok to have your knees slightly ahead of your toes at bottom of squat ?

just on this. when looking down at my knee position at the very bottom of squat, I was sure my knees were miles over my toes.

but then I had the aid of a mirror today, looked sideways in the mirror and my knees were in fact just level with my toes


so all about viewing perspective I suppose !!

Alf Veedersane

tom_tarbucket wrote: »

just on this. when looking down at my knee position at the very bottom of squat, I was sure my knees were miles over my toes.

but then I had the aid of a mirror today, looked sideways in the mirror and my knees were in fact just level with my toes


so all about viewing perspective I suppose !!

Video it. It's easier than looking sideways

tom_tarbucket

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Video it. It's easier than looking sideways

ah no one to video.

and wud need to build a feckin perch to position it correctly if doing a self video : )

Mellor

tom_tarbucket wrote: »

ah no one to video.

and wud need to build a feckin perch to position it correctly if doing a self video : )

I use one of these to hold my phone upright on the ground. Works fine.

tom_tarbucket

Mellor wrote: »

I use one of these to hold my phone upright on the ground. Works fine.

oh right. so you put it at ground level. would you normally just put it to the side of you ?

Alf Veedersane

To the side, yeah. It allows you to assess your form and depth.

Ideally it would be off the ground because angles but on the ground can still be of some use.

Mellor

tom_tarbucket wrote: »

oh right. so you put it at ground level. would you normally just put it to the side of you ?

On the ground or on a bench or box if availible