overtraining, how to correct it?

Amprodude

I have been training hard recently and now got to a stage where I am wrecked and I'm not improving. This week I went hard for three days and I was recently dropped by my club mates on a club spin where we were going very hard. I only got 5 hours sleep last 3 days so my performance has gone back and I have been going very well up to lately and now I'm tired and going backwards.

This week I did 100km last Sat at 25km/h avg speed with 10 hard sprints thrown in at end of spin. Sunday I did a recovery spin on turbo in the morning and Mark Kavanadish dvd video Sunday evening. On Monday I did 62km solo at 29.5km/h hard effort and 32km/h yesterday on a club spin (50km)and got dropped at the end by two strong riders who I was matching performance wise until yesterday. I have got my fitness spot on until mid January and now I'm going backwards.

OK I know I've burned out but what I'm doing now is I'm taking 3-5 days off bike to recover and trying to get 8-9 hours of sleep from today on. Anyone can offer me advice on how I should plan a week without burning out bad. I have no energy now, feel very negative about my cycling and not feeling good form wise. Will I reach my Peak performance again? I'm planning to do Lacey cup and I have overtrained and need to get something going again to get my form back.

Thanks for any advice given.

Lumen

Chill out! It's supposed to be fun!

TiBoy

Amprodude wrote: »

Will I reach my Peak performance again?

Of course you will. Relax and try not to overtrain.

Tomred13

Dont freak yourself out, as mentioned above just relax, eat a little more, sleep alot more, have a pint and a laugh, dont think about the bike for a few days and let your body recharge n repair. the bodys an amazing bit o kit ( medical term) and you will definetly get your form back. Also just go out for slow amblinging cycles and fall back in love with cycling. you'll be fine..

Kaisr Sose

Its January..you seem to have the intensity wrong. It should mainly be about volume.. Long steady spins...some efforts but not too intense..build a good base. Work from that. What you are doing is putting too much stress on the body too early. Its on the rest cycle that the body repairs and adapts to training load. No recovery eventually leads to fatigue which cab lead to over training.
How long are you racing? What Cat are you?

Amprodude

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

Its January..you seem to have the intensity wrong. It should mainly be about volume.. Long steady spins...some efforts but not too intense..build a good base. Work from that. What you are doing is putting too much stress on the body too early. Its on the rest cycle that the body repairs and adapts to training load. No recovery eventually leads to fatigue which cab lead to over training.
How long are you racing? What Cat are you?

Year 2 racing in A4 cat. I know my plan isn't working and I have hit a wall at this stage. Very annoyed but I want to peak in 4 weeks and I haven't the training right.

Lusk_Doyle

It's quite obvious. Cycle less intensive efforts so close together. Read a book about training also.

pprendeville

There's no point in comparing yourself against other riders at this stage of the year. Several reasons. They might not have trained hard like you for several days and so were fresh for climbs. They may still be focusing on endurance and not done any interval work. Coach (if they have one) may have told them to do specific things in their workout etc etc. Come race time is the time to make comparisons.

Not sure if it's wise to peak for the 1st race of the year. If you're feeling burned out now, you should get good rest. That's critical. Maybe your iron levels are low? Spatone is useful for that. When you get back on the bike don't go hell for leather straight away again. Build it up slowly for 2 weeks.

Do you have an annual training plan by the way or a coach? Do you check your accumulated training stress scores at the end of the week or compare acute training load v chronic training load? If you use Trainingpeaks or Golden Cheetah these tools help you a lot to prevent overtraining.

Amprodude

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

It's quite obvious. Cycle less intensive efforts so close together. Read a book about training also.

What do you recommend when spacing out intensive efforts? Monday Wednesday Friday or Monday Thursday and how hard should I go? I scrapped my plans for this week because of total burn out.

nak

Amprodude wrote: »

What do you recommend when spacing out intensive efforts? Monday Wednesday Friday or Monday Thursday and how hard should I go? I scrapped my plans for this week because of total burn out.

No one on here can tell you how hard to train; depends what you're training for, level of fitness etc. If you're not sure, maybe enlist the help of a coach.

Amprodude

nak wrote: »

No one on here can tell you how hard to train; depends what you're training for, level of fitness etc. If you're not sure, maybe enlist the help of a coach.

I have a very good level of base fitness. Started this in September and have over 8 hours put in each week of base fitness. I did 1-2 short intervals every week. I'm on week 21 now so that's where I'm at but it nearly all base fitness with over 300km covered each week since then. I try to read books on training but everyone always suggests different ways of doing your training and then I find I can't adopt anything to suit my training needs.

bcmf

Take at least 4,days of your bike. Your body is telling you to stop so stop! Listen to it.
You won't lose any fitness by taking 4-5 days off and in fact the recovery will probably make you stronger.
The next time you go out on your bike either leave your computer at home or in your pocket so you can cycle to how your body feels.
If your feeling low on energy get a blood works done from your GP.
If your iron has gone low it will take about 5weeks to get it back to normal levels.
I know I have been there!

QueensGael

Amprodude wrote: »

...
Started this in September…
...I'm on week 21 now

Did you take any time off between seasons? It's no wonder you're burnt out in January if you've been going hard at it since Sept. My advice would be to get a coach to help you review and reset (if necessary) your winter training and your racing plans.

codie

Do you drink a lot of coffee

CramCycle

Take two weeks off from any hard effort (leisurely spins), eat well, drink plenty. In two weeks, go for distance in comfort, rather than anything near max. effort.

Amprodude

QueensGael wrote: »

Did you take any time off between seasons? It's no wonder you're burnt out in January if you've been going hard at it since Sept. My advice would be to get a coach to help you review and reset (if necessary) your winter training and your racing plans.

I was off for 5 months prior to September so that's why I have put in a good winter base training. I was starting from scratch again last September. Im trying to learn my training as I go along but at this moment in time I am not going good form wise. Looking at a coach would be a good option but I guess I have left it too late?

Amprodude

codie wrote: »

Do you drink a lot of coffee

1 cup a day.

Lusk_Doyle

Amprodude wrote: »

I was off for 5 months prior to September so that's why I have put in a good winter base training. I was starting from scratch again last September. Im trying to learn my training as I go along but at this moment in time I am not going good form wise. Looking at a coach would be a good option but I guess I have left it too late?

It's never too late.

Lusk_Doyle

Amprodude wrote: »

What do you recommend when spacing out intensive efforts? Monday Wednesday Friday or Monday Thursday and how hard should I go? I scrapped my plans for this week because of total burn out.

I don't actually know what is best, even for myself. I just go out and ride what I think is right for me to do at that particular time. However, I am not a good example of what to do as I had very little time on the bike last year for several reasons. That said, I got out when I could and I participated in the Swords League and got some good results in the TTs and Hill Climbs. The races I did nothing as I was not tuned enough for that. Despite my total lack of training, I managed to place 2nd on the Hill Climb, 2nd on one 16km TTs, 3rd on another and 4th on the 40km TT. This just shows that you don't have to destroy yourself with training to achieve results. Obviously, I would have been destroyed in the races as I was not ready for them.

Take a step back from what you are doing. Write down some goals for the year. Talk to a more experienced club member about same. Take out a month's worth of coaching if you want to. Re-assess your goals and go forth from there. Your coach will hone your focus on what is wrong and what is right.

Most important is too relax. You are an A4 part time rider with a job(?) and maybe a family(?). Don't take it too seriously. It's not worth it.

Amprodude

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

I don't actually know what is best, even for myself. I just go out and ride what I think is right for me to do at that particular time. However, I am not a good example of what to do as I had very little time on the bike last year for several reasons. That said, I got out when I could and I participated in the Swords League and got some good results in the TTs and Hill Climbs. The races I did nothing as I was not tuned enough for that. Despite my total lack of training, I managed to place 2nd on the Hill Climb, 2nd on one 16km TTs, 3rd on another and 4th on the 40km TT. This just shows that you don't have to destroy yourself with training to achieve results. Obviously, I would have been destroyed in the races as I was not ready for them.

Take a step back from what you are doing. Write down some goals for the year. Talk to a more experienced club member about same. Take out a month's worth of coaching if you want to. Re-assess your goals and go forth from there. Your coach will hone your focus on what is wrong and what is right.

Most important is too relax. You are an A4 part time rider with a job(?) and maybe a family(?). Don't take it too seriously. It's not worth it.

I'm very determined to getup to A3. I feel with 5 points from last year in A4 I think I have the ability to get there. I know you won't get anything without hard work and I'm very focused that way. I want to chase after something I think I can achieve results. I work 40 hours a week and cycle 8-12 depending. I have no family so without family I have the ideal circumstances for getting the training in.

Lusk_Doyle

Amprodude wrote: »

Amprodude wrote: »

I'm very determined to getup to A3. I feel with 5 points from last year in A4 I think I have the ability to get there. I know you won't get anything without hard work and I'm very focused that way. I want to chase after something I think I can achieve results. I work 40 hours a week and cycle 8-12 depending. I have no family so without family I have the ideal circumstances for getting the training in.

I have the same target as you. I know that I will get there this season. I have only started back training within the past two weeks. It's not necessary to destroy yourself training. Train smart. Race smarter. Watch this space!

zurbfoundation

"burned out", "overtrained" - you are probably not - these require a lot of effort over a long period of time, you are not doing that, you might be a bit sick - impossible to know - so just rest up and get lots of sleep till you freshen up feel like riding again. Skip the Lacey Cup - you don't have to race - race when you feel ready - if its local to you then just tap around easy I am sure you can come home with the other A4's in the bunch -

enjoy the (long) season, unless you are a pro there is no need to panic about these things

Inquitus

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

That said, I got out when I could and I participated in the Swords League and got some good results in the TTs and Hill Climbs. The races I did nothing as I was not tuned enough for that. Despite my total lack of training, I managed to place 2nd on the Hill Climb, 2nd on one 16km TTs, 3rd on another and 4th on the 40km TT.

And the "illegal" TT rig Cancellara would be proud of had nothing to do with it?

Beasty should he not be stripped of some points for the TT's predating the nationals?

Amprodude

zurbfoundation wrote: »

"burned out", "overtrained" - you are probably not - these require a lot of effort over a long period of time, you are not doing that, you might be a bit sick - impossible to know - so just rest up and get lots of sleep till you freshen up feel like riding again. Skip the Lacey Cup - you don't have to race - race when you feel ready - if its local to you then just tap around easy I am sure you can come home with the other A4's in the bunch -

enjoy the (long) season, unless you are a pro there is no need to panic about these things

I feel burned out, tired and exhausted. Early starts for work don't help either and my sleeping pattern has been poor up to yesterday.

outfox

Would it be better for you if you used the weekly club spin as a more relaxed affair, rather than using it as a hard session? There's surely enough damage done to the body on the trainer several times a week, without punishing it on the weekend club spin too?

Raam

Amprodude wrote: »

1 cup a day.

There's your problem. Increase that to 8 cups a day and you will be flying.

Amprodude

outfox wrote: »

Would it be better for you if you used the weekly club spin as a more relaxed affair, rather than using it as a hard session? There's surely enough damage done to the body on the trainer several times a week, without punishing it on the weekend club spin too?

I nnormally go on spins at weekends but they're at 25km average so they aren't flat out club and solo spins most times, I threw a few sprints in last weekend on them but I won't do that again. I did alot of press ups lunges and pull ups too on Sunday after my spin so I'm thinking it's all just catching up with me now.

JK.BMC

What club are you with? Is there anybody there to help you?

CramCycle

Amprodude wrote: »

I'm very determined to getup to A3.

I was too, got up with minimal effort in the end.
I asked nicely :pac:

have been shot out the back at every race since but I made it to A3 so I achieved my goal.

SWL

Seems like you haven't built a proper aerobic base, space your interval/hard session a couple of days apart give your body a chance to recover, recovery is where the gains are made not during the hard session, train don't strain.

Amprodude

JK.BMC wrote: »

What club are you with?

Well if I told you that now I would reveal my identity. I think I'm going to get a coach to help me out. Obviously I'm not getting the balence right at all. Flying one week and dieing the next.

Amprodude

SWL wrote: »

Seems like you haven't built a proper aerobic base, space your interval/hard session a couple of days apart give your body a chance to recover, recovery is where the gains are made not during the hard session, train don't strain.

When you mean aerobic base is that not being able to sustain Max heart rate effort over a long period?

Raam

Amprodude wrote: »

When you mean aerobic base is that not being able to sustain Max heart rate effort over a long period?

No. It is being able to ride at a low intensity for a long time. No one can sustain max HR.

tunney

Amprodude wrote: »

When you mean aerobic base is that not being able to sustain Max heart rate effort over a long period?

Get a book before a coach. Or a clue.

Amprodude

CramCycle wrote: »

I was too, got up with minimal effort in the end.
I asked nicely :pac:

have been shot out the back at every race since but I made it to A3 so I achieved my goal.

I would rather go up on merit then going up at my own accord. If I can't get out of A4 then I have no business up in A3. That's my theory.

willow46

great discussions here, i'm new to A4 racing, previous Ironman training. 300km per week? Wow i'm not doing that but i can keep up with the A2 guys in my club. So Maybe (just my thoughts) your body is saying hey i'm running at half empty? As suggested take a few days off? I did that last week after 3 hard sessions with the club (31km/h 100km+) Sleep a big part too, and as suggested have you been going hard since Sept? When i did Ironman i followed Joe Friel 3weeks hard 1 week recovery etc…
Our coach or guy who calls the shots, made us do very easy but long spins since i joined in about Sept, we only picked up the pace now this month. Admittedly he pushes us very hard now but always says, take Monday/Tuesday off and then maybe Wed/Thurs out. He told me only A1/2 do 3-5/6 days a week and its many years before they get to that level.

Amprodude

Raam wrote: »

No. It is being able to ride at a low intensity for a long time. No one can sustain max HR.

I'm fine here. I could cycle at low intensity for 4-5 hours and I would feel fine. It's when the hard efforts come or sudden hard surges of pace thats where I get caught.

zurbfoundation

i think you are putting too much pressure on yourself - and i don't mean physically - as since we cant really tell what you are doing, and what you should be doing/capable of - we cant advise on your training

just rest till you feel improved, take a more relaxed attitude in general - don't be killing/worrying yourself over a few A4 races - remember, its supposed to be fun.

rainbow kirby

Amprodude wrote: »

Early starts for work don't help either and my sleeping pattern has been poor up to yesterday.

This is part of your problem too. Your training needs to fit in with everything else that's going on in your life too. Sleeping poorly and training hard is burning the candle at both ends really and it never ends well.

Raam

Amprodude wrote: »

I'm fine here. I could cycle at low intensity for 4-5 hours and I would feel fine. It's when the hard efforts come or sudden hard surges of pace thats where I get caught.

That's what everyone finds hard.

SWL

Amprodude wrote: »

When you mean aerobic base is that not being able to sustain Max heart rate effort over a long period?

No, I do a lot of running as well as cycling, I have had the same experience as you during my running career. loads of hard training followed by long inconsistent performance often terrible, my solution was to train harder and the cycle went on.

Then I started building my aerobic base in running terms that is running at max of 75% of Max HR, built up the miles and slowly the times increased for the same effort, but more importantly the adaptions made interval/hard session easier and resulted in larger volume of harder efforts and incredible recovering performance, my times slowly improved.

So get a coach/book whatever and build your aerobic base, easy rides will feel very very slow and you will think this can't make me fit but it works. easy on the easy days - hard on the hard days

ford2600

Rather than stressing take control of what you can
*Improve your confidence, you seem unsure of what your doing and why(education key here)
* Get talking to knowlegable experieced racing cyclist in club
* Develop a hard chin, truth hurts sometimes
* Get better sleep, very important (http://www.aclai.ie/blog/3663/sleep-part-1/)
* Eat plenty protein, especially after cycling with good carb source
* Eat better in general
* Allow your body time to recover after hard efforts, more is often less
* Enjoy the sport, we have enough crap to be dealing with without our hobbies becoming a source
* Be open to new ideas

Good luck

Amprodude

rainbow kirby wrote: »

This is part of your problem too. Your training needs to fit in with everything else that's going on in your life too. Sleeping poorly and training hard is burning the candle at both ends really and it never ends well.

I agree it's not helping but I'm planning on getting to bed alot earlier from now on and hopefully I can discover my form. I'm going to treat sleeping and eating well more important than training and hopefully than can help things along.

tunney

Amprodude wrote: »

I have been training hard recently and now got to a stage where I am wrecked and I'm not improving. This week I went hard for three days and I was recently dropped by my club mates on a club spin where we were going very hard. I only got 5 hours sleep last 3 days so my performance has gone back and I have been going very well up to lately and now I'm tired and going backwards.

This week I did 100km last Sat at 25km/h avg speed with 10 hard sprints thrown in at end of spin. Sunday I did a recovery spin on turbo in the morning and Mark Kavanadish dvd video Sunday evening. On Monday I did 62km solo at 29.5km/h hard effort and 32km/h yesterday on a club spin (50km)and got dropped at the end by two strong riders who I was matching performance wise until yesterday. I have got my fitness spot on until mid January and now I'm going backwards.

OK I know I've burned out but what I'm doing now is I'm taking 3-5 days off bike to recover and trying to get 8-9 hours of sleep from today on. Anyone can offer me advice on how I should plan a week without burning out bad. I have no energy now, feel very negative about my cycling and not feeling good form wise. Will I reach my Peak performance again? I'm planning to do Lacey cup and I have overtrained and need to get something going again to get my form back.

Thanks for any advice given.

You haven't overtrained. Overtraining takes much much longer to achieve. Overtraining is a specific condition with specific symptoms and markers.

Once again you have not overtrained, you are a little tired from training badly.

What you are described is short term under recovery. You done the wrong training, too close together while not sleeping enough. One could argue you are just tired cause you had a few bad nights sleep.

You've also gained awareness of lots and lots of training related terms without any knowledge or understanding of them.

Billycake

Sleep is a huge piece of the training and recovery picture but it's one that a lot of people seem to overlook or think they can manage without. Check out point #3 and it's links in this....http://sigmanutrition.com/feel-like-****/

Like someone said earlier, it's supposed to be fun. Like life really!!

willow46

Agree, 300km a week for A4, you're flying man! There are a good few A2's in my club who are defo not doing 300 a week.

Amprodude

willow46 wrote: »

Agree, 300km a week for A4, you're flying man! There are a good few A2's in my club who are defo not doing 300 a week.

They would still kick my a$$ if I was to compete against them.

JK.BMC

I've been following this thread and I'm on the verge of wondering what the OP will learn from even more 'advice' being tendered at this stage.

Holy bejeezus OP, I just hope you don't get a puncture in the Lacey Cup. And that you know where the finish line is. And pin on your number correctly. And sign-on in good time. That's about as much as I would say.

bwalsh1983

Its all a bit of fun but sleep and eating correctly are part of it if you want to progress...TBH they are part of normal life but most people i.e (everyone I work with) think you are a 'fitness' freak if you do such things correctly

harringtonp

tunney wrote: »

You haven't overtrained. Overtraining takes much much longer to achieve. Overtraining is a specific condition with specific symptoms and markers.

Once again you have not overtrained, you are a little tired from training badly.

What you are described is short term under recovery. You done the wrong training, too close together while not sleeping enough. One could argue you are just tired cause you had a few bad nights sleep.

You've also gained awareness of lots and lots of training related terms without any knowledge or understanding of them.

I'd posted a thread a few days ago wondering about being a bit burnt out:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057369269

Any thoughts on this ?

outfox

The solution to the OP's problem is simple - a new bike.