Linux without C/C++

L.Jenkins

Found a somewhat interesting article on the possible departure of Linux from C. https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/linux-c-heading-quick-divorce-william-buchanan

I always thought that C is and always would be a fundamental part of Linux from a development and maintenance point of view. What language could be used or would even be suitable for the OS. Or would the replacement of some modules in an alternate language be more appropriate?

srsly78

People always confuse the OS with the kernel. The Linux kernel is written in C, everything else is written in a mix of languages. So to move away from C all that has to be done is rewrite the entire kernel. Not gonna happen anytime soon.

Also the article fails to mention that these "high level languages" are built on top of C/C++. How would you use them without having some sort of low level foundation?

L.Jenkins

I was thinking that it would be an absolute nightmare to first, redevelop that kernel and as you said, high level languages with a dependency on C/C++ is going to cause major problems if such a venture does go ahead. However, a Message Queue, "might" help solve the problem.

PrzemoF

small off-topic:

"Quite frankly, even if the choice of C were to do *nothing* but keep the C++ programmers out, that in itself would be a huge reason to use C."

That's my favourite saying about C++, so I don't think we'll see the kernel in C++ as long as Linus is at the steering wheel.

More here: http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/c++/linus

L.Jenkins

PrzemoF wrote: »

small off-topic:

"Quite frankly, even if the choice of C were to do *nothing* but keep the C++ programmers out, that in itself would be a huge reason to use C."

That's my favourite saying about C++, so I don't think we'll see the kernel in C++ as long as Linus is at the steering wheel.

More here: http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/c++/linus

I love how blunt and to the point he is, reaffirming some peoples opinions of him in the other thread.

syklops

For all the years that Microsoft Windows was probed, it has now pretty much got it's act together, and it's the increasing using of Android. Mac OS X and, especially, Linux, that are the new targets. While Linux has shown itself to be efficient and able to morph itself into many forms, from running wireless routers in the home to creating the majority of the Web infastructure in the world, it is now being showcased as having some pretty fundamental weaknesses. Shellshock showcased sloppy code at the core of it's infastruture, while Heartbleed showed has sloppy code could compromise it's complete infastructure for security.

It has, thus, a problem under its skin, and it was the same problem that OpenSSL had ... it is build with C/C++, which has the ability to:

do whatever it wants with the system, and especially its memory.

Thats all I read. Its all over the place and i dont just mean the grammar. So Linux is being show-cased as having fundamental weaknesses, but the two examples he uses are Shellshock and Heartbleed. Heartbleed affected OpenSSL, which isnt a part of Linux or the Linux project. "Shellshock showed sloppy code at the core", the same vulnerability exists in Windows. Even 7 still has the same vulnerability.

So C can do whatever it wants with the system, especially its memory. Well, yeah. Whats the alternative? Does he go on to suggest an alternative?

L.Jenkins

syklops wrote: »

...So C can do whatever it wants with the system, especially its memory. Well, yeah. Whats the alternative? Does he go on to suggest an alternative?

You could always use Java with JNI :P

28064212

syklops wrote: »

"Shellshock showed sloppy code at the core", the same vulnerability exists in Windows. Even 7 still has the same vulnerability.

??

jimgoose

Itzy wrote: »

I love how blunt and to the point he is, reaffirming some peoples opinions of him in the other thread.

Like I said, Linus is a prick. He's magnificent! !

jimgoose

syklops wrote: »

Thats all I read. Its all over the place and i dont just mean the grammar. So Linux is being show-cased as having fundamental weaknesses, but the two examples he uses are Shellshock and Heartbleed. Heartbleed affected OpenSSL, which isnt a part of Linux or the Linux project. "Shellshock showed sloppy code at the core", the same vulnerability exists in Windows. Even 7 still has the same vulnerability.

So C can do whatever it wants with the system, especially its memory. Well, yeah. Whats the alternative? Does he go on to suggest an alternative?

C does fcuk-all until it is compiled and assembled. The kernel, be it Linux, Solaris, AIX, HP-UX, Windows or Minix, is written in assembler or else it does not control the machine, and therefore it is not the kernel.

Colonel Panic

Man working in computer science academia blows hot air, makes sweeping statements and proposes no real solutions. Surprise surprise.

At least he didn't try to say something like "With Go soon to self-hosted, perhaps it's time to move away from this 1970s abomination which makes anti patterns easy to write and puts us all at risk!"

Khannie

Colonel Panic wrote: »

Man working in computer science academia blows hot air, makes sweeping statements and proposes no real solutions. Surprise surprise.

Hahaha. Kinda sums it up nicely in fairness.

L.Jenkins

Colonel Panic wrote: »

Man working in computer science academia blows hot air, makes sweeping statements and proposes no real solutions. Surprise surprise....

Had a lecturer just like that in College. Worked to obtain his Ph.D and spent the rest of his time teaching. Bit of a waste sadly.