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Landlord wants to kick us out after signing a four year lease

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    #62
    cerastes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭cerastes


    drumswan wrote: »
    Can anyone actually confirm that the tenant signs a lease under the RAS scheme? Has anyone seen one? Is it a fixed term lease or not? How do they manage to have a lease that covers a fixed period without it being considered a fixed term lease?

    Citizens information says tenancies covered under the RAS scheme are governed by the RTA. There must be some council bylaw or additional legislation that changes the legality of tenancies under this scheme, anyone any clue?

    A fixed term lease is a lease for a specified time, ie one year, two years etc
    Both the landlord and the tenant would be bound to rent the property (to and from the other) for that time period, unless by mutual agreement they decided to end it. The only other exceptions to this would be by some breach of the lease of either party, anti social behaviour or by some break clause.

    A periodic lease agreement may be for a set period of time too, but its not fixed in the sense that either party is bound to it for the complete time period. In the case of a 1 year lease, a landlord may terminate the agreement (lease) inside the first 6 months, no explanation or reason required (but with the appropriate set down notice period), this is a reasonable enough thing as it gives the landlord some time to determine what a new tenant is like, and if they are a problem, they can move them on being legally able to do so.
    After 6 months the tenant acquires Part 4 rights, where they can keep the tenancy for up to 4 years if they wish, a lease may have been written for 1 year or 2 or 4 (usually 1 I believe), but that doesnt mean its for a fixed term unless the lease says it is.
    In a periodic lease a tenant may exercise their right to give a notice to quit also (with the appropriate notice period), they may have a lease document which specifies 1 or any number of years, but they arent bound to it like a 1year (or any number of years) fixed term lease. In this case the landlord may only give a notice to quit for breaches of the lease, and then only after the appropriate warnings have been given and not rectified by the tenant.

    All leases from what I can see come under the RTA and Part 4 rights cannot be reduced or written out in any lease, but that does not mean having a lease that says its for 1,2,3 or however many years necessarily mean that its a fixed term lease, if it doesnt say its a fixed term, then it must be a periodic lease.
    It seems I have been criticised by some, but if anyone reads back the entire thread, I have stated facts as I am aware, suggested tenant approach landlord to discuss, and check their lease, there is no bias, I am being objective.


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    #63
    antoinolachtnai
    Registered Users Posts: 9,773 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    The essence of the RAS arrangement is that the landlord commits to making the property available to the local authority's tenants for a number of years. That is why I think it is extremely unlikely that the landlord can evict the tenant without reference to the local authority. Of course it depends on what the paperwork with the local authority and the lease actually says.


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    #64
    MRBASS
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭MRBASS


    is the ras lease not between you and the council,and the council and the landlord ..as in the council take control off the house and you sign lease with them?


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    #65
    drumswan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,592 ✭✭✭drumswan


    cerastes wrote: »
    A periodic lease agreement may be for a set period of time
    CitizensInfo wrote:
    A periodic tenancy is not for a fixed amount of time

    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/types_of_tenancy.html

    Someone else can debunk the rest.


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    #66
    antoinolachtnai
    Registered Users Posts: 9,773 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    No, generally RAS does not work like that in my experience. The council does not take on the role of landlord. There may well be different practices in other local authorities and there may be exceptions.


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    #67
    Nekarsulm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,191 ✭✭✭✭Nekarsulm


    A RAS contract is between 3 parties. Landlord, Tenant and Council as Housing Authority.

    I have one in front of me (I am landlord) and it states that rent shall be Open Market rent minus 10%. Reviews every 2 years.
    It states that the term is for Six months from commencement date, thereafter from month to month.
    Although, at time of signing I was promised that it would run for 5 years.

    It also outline the following.

    6.1 Subject to clause 6.2, Termination of this tenancy is governed by the residential tenancies Act 2004.
    6.2 During the first 6 months of the Term, the Landlord shall not be entitled to terminate the tenancy other than on the first ground set out in section 34 of the RTA 2004, namely the Tenant has failed to comply with any of its obligations in relation to this tenancy


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    #68
    omnithanos
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 710 ✭✭✭omnithanos


    Seems a bit underhand that they would set it as six months when they told you it was 5 years.

    By your rationale it appears that the Tenants should be safe in the property for 6 months anyway as they have just signed a new lease.


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    #69
    cerastes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭cerastes


    drumswan wrote: »
    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/types_of_tenancy.html

    Someone else can debunk the rest.

    A periodic lease may say a lease is for one year and initially that is very likely what a tenant may get, but it does not mean the tenant has a fixed term lease.
    After 6 months the tenant acquires part 4 rights, before that, they can be given the required notice and after it they can stay so long as they dont breach the lease.


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    #70
    Nekarsulm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,191 ✭✭✭✭Nekarsulm


    omnithanos wrote: »
    Seems a bit underhand that they would set it as six months when they told you it was 5 years.

    By your rationale it appears that the Tenants should be safe in the property for 6 months anyway as they have just signed a new lease.

    Well they are there five years last November, great tenants.Trying to get the RAS organiser pinned down to a meeting to organise a renewal of the scheme, but he is proving elusive !


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    #71
    omnithanos
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 710 ✭✭✭omnithanos


    Great Tenants seem to be harder to find these days.


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    #72
    Nekarsulm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,191 ✭✭✭✭Nekarsulm


    omnithanos wrote: »
    Great Tenants seem to be harder to find these days.

    Great tenants are very rare.
    I worked in the House letting business for 6 years and know how valuable a good tenant is!
    These ones are. Unfortunately, here in Cavan, a 3 bed semi is renting at just under €500 a month, which is nowhere near what the Mortgage is costing......
    On the positive side, the Council pay the agreed amount into the Mortgage account each month on the agreed date, which at least keeps a regular flow of money going in, and the tenants pay their contribution to the council each week.


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    #73
    maggiepip
    Registered Users Posts: 1,099 ✭✭✭maggiepip


    Nekarsulm wrote: »
    Well they are there five years last November, great tenants.Trying to get the RAS organiser pinned down to a meeting to organise a renewal of the scheme, but he is proving elusive !

    Many councils dont do the longterm contracts any more, they were losing money as rent was guaranteed even if the tenant left. They operate now on a month to month basis, but as you're registered with them if your tenant leaves they should give you a new tenant from the waiting list. The tenant in sitting can stay as long as they wish, once the landlord is agreeable .


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    #74
    Susandublin
    Registered Users Posts: 85 ✭✭Susandublin


    If your kids have important exams and it takes a few months to leave the house then where's the problem. Their exams will be done in the summer and you can look for something then. It's a tough situation to be in but the owner of the property has a right to use it ad he/she sees fit. I wouldn't ignore the advice tho / I know it's tough and almost mean but two sides to everything - once he gives enough notice and is being honest then that's just unlucky. At the end if he day it's only a house so don't get too annoyed - nothing is worth the stress.
    Hope it all works out for you.


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    #75
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    One thing you have to be mindful of if you take the wrong advice and over stay you could well find yourself been removed from the RAS scheme all together and a landlord who will happily tell anyone who will listen including other potential landlord's your a risky tenant who can't be trusted ,

    I'd personally talk to the Ras section of your local authority and find out what would happen if you ignored your lease termination date
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #76
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Susandublin wrote: »
    the owner of the property has a right to use it ad he/she sees fit.

    That's a very interesting interpretation of the RTA.


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    #77
    The_Morrigan
    Moderators Posts: 9,368 ✭✭✭The_Morrigan


    Graham wrote: »
    That's a very interesting interpretation of the RTA.

    It's not an interpretation. A landlord may give notice in some instances and needing the house for a family member is a valid reason as per the RTA.


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    #78
    nc19
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,395 ✭✭✭nc19


    Dub. wrote:
    This is my home. It is my house. Me and my kids have been living here for years.


    it really isnt


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    #79
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    The_Morrigan wrote: »
    It's not an interpretation. A landlord may give notice in some instances and needing the house for a family member is a valid reason as per the RTA.

    So not as as he sees fit, rather as permitted under the RTA and any other legal agreement in place at the time between the landlord and tenant and in this specific maybe even the local authority.


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    #80
    The_Morrigan
    Moderators Posts: 9,368 ✭✭✭The_Morrigan


    Graham wrote: »
    So not as as he sees fit, rather as permitted under the RTA and any other legal agreement in place at the time between the landlord and tenant and in this specific maybe even the local authority.

    Stop being so pedantic. The OP has stated the reason in the thread already, that is what everyone is discussing.


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