New rifle :)

dodderangler

First blood. managed to get 2 rabbits and missed one.
This one was at 72 yards.

aaakev

What ammo ya using?

dodderangler

aaakev wrote: »

What ammo ya using?

55g American eagle

aaakev

fmj or hollow point?

dodderangler

aaakev wrote: »

fmj or hollow point?

Hollow point

noeleire

dodderangler wrote: »

First blood. managed to get 2 rabbits and missed one.
This one was at 72 yards.

Any photos of the rifle i can only see the rabbit.

aaakev

dodderangler wrote: »

Hollow point

I bought a hundred of them last year and found them great out of my cz, accurate and perfect for foxes. Got them for €12 A box at the time so very cheap too. Fired my last one 2 weeks ago and replaced them with 50gr vmax that i got at a good price

Nekarsulm

noeleire wrote: »

Any photos of the rifle i can only see the rabbit.

Fierce effective Camo. !

dodderangler

aaakev wrote: »

I bought a hundred of them last year and found them great out of my cz, accurate and perfect for foxes. Got them for €12 A box at the time so very cheap too. Fired my last one 2 weeks ago and replaced them with 50gr vmax that i got at a good price

€16.50 I paid for box of em. Very expensive I found but better than the other ammo I was using. What are they like for foxes damage wise?

dodderangler

aaakev wrote: »

fmj or hollow point?

My apologies aaakev.
I bought two boxes and never checked them. I have a box of each. Hollow point and fmj boat tail.
Ones I used today were fmj boat tail.
Any experience with them?
Again apologies for my last post.

amadablam

dodderangler wrote: »

My apologies aaakev.
I bought two boxes and never checked them. I have a box of each. Hollow point and fmj boat tail.
Ones I used today were fmj boat tail.
Any experience with them?
Again apologies for my last post.

FMJ are not really suitable for hunting, you will find they pass through a lot as there is no expansion.

In my experience, Only good for paper punching, leading up the barrel and plinking. Definitely not for use on live quarry.

outdoors247

Nice rifle I'd stick with HP's

dodderangler

amadablam wrote: »

FMJ are not really suitable for hunting, you will find they pass through a lot as there is no expansion.

In my experience, Only good for paper punching, leading up the barrel and plinking. Definitely not for use on live quarry.

Would they pass through rabbits and foxes?

amadablam

dodderangler wrote: »

Would they pass through rabbits and foxes?

Yep unless they hit bone and even then they can exit as they are not designed to expand. The American Eagle fmj are fine for cheap plinking on targets but not much else.

Stick to ballistic tips, soft points and hunting hollow points.

dodderangler

Cheers mate.
As you can see from the photo the shot on the rabbit was fairly obvious and leaves a nice hole but the second rabbit I shot there was no entry nor exit wound on him. Any suggestion on that?

amadablam

dodderangler wrote: »

Cheers mate.
As you can see from the photo the shot on the rabbit was fairly obvious and leaves a nice hole but the second rabbit I shot there was no entry nor exit wound on him. Any suggestion on that?

Second one probably died of fright after seeing the size of the hole in the first one only joking.

Hard to say but have you given it a thorough examination and skinned it? The entry might be quite small.

That looks like the exit on the first one though and the bullet likely hit bone.

Chesapeake

FMJ for paper or isis targets fella,
get yourself a good 50 /55 gr hp or bt that the rifle likes an mulah suff to your hearts content.

dodderangler

amadablam wrote: »

Second one probably died of fright after seeing the size of the hole in the first one only joking.

Hard to say but have you given it a thorough examination and skinned it? The entry might be quite small.

That looks like the exit on the first one though and the bullet likely hit bone.

Yeah the hole was the exit and was straight the shoulder( despite aiming for it's head
What are fmj bullets designed for? Is it just targets?

dodderangler

After searching the web on fmj I see they quite dangerous for hunting small game as they will pass through and they don't lose much energy after hitting it's mark unless it hits into bone and the like so I can imagine a headshot on a rabbit wouldn't be much bone for a bullet to stop at. Perhaps foxes it's ok.

amadablam

dodderangler wrote: »

After searching the web on fmj I see they quite dangerous for hunting small game as they will pass through and they don't lose much energy after hitting it's mark unless it hits into bone and the like so I can imagine a headshot on a rabbit wouldn't be much bone for a bullet to stop at. Perhaps foxes it's ok.

I was thinking as much on the exit wound.

If you were aiming for the head at reasonably short distance, it might be worth a rezero and some trigger time to tighten up your grouping. At 72 yards with a 223 if you aimed for the head, you should hit the head unless something is not right.

FMJ is not designed for a humane kill and should not be used on any animal, foxes included.

Really, you shouldn't use them on anything you hunt.

Fmj isn't even an optimum target round and is more suited to military use due to its non expanding nature.

For cheap target practice, its fine but that's about it.

Hunting ammo is designed to expand/fragment and should be your only choice.

Try some of the Hornady vmax or similar if you plan on shooting foxes or hunting.

aaakev

dodderangler wrote: »

My apologies aaakev.
I bought two boxes and never checked them. I have a box of each. Hollow point and fmj boat tail.
Ones I used today were fmj boat tail.
Any experience with them?
Again apologies for my last post.

I thought they were from the minimum damage to the rabbit that's why I asked. Like has already been said the fmj are only good for plinking defo not hunting any animal at all. If actually had rfd try sell me American eagle fmj for hunting saying they are perfect for it, I spent my money elsewhere and won't go back to the scumbag

The hollow points are good and if not been able to eat rabbits after shooting them with hp as they expell a fair bit of energy even in a small rabbit. I've used them on goats too and dropped them on the spot so they are very good.

dodderangler

amadablam wrote: »

I was thinking as much on the exit wound.

If you were aiming for the head at reasonably short distance, it might be worth a rezero and some trigger time to tighten up your grouping. At 72 yards with a 223 if you aimed for the head, you should hit the head unless something is not right.

FMJ is not designed for a humane kill and should not be used on any animal, foxes included.

Really, you shouldn't use them on anything you hunt.

Fmj isn't even an optimum target round and is more suited to military use due to its non expanding nature.

For cheap target practice, its fine but that's about it.

Hunting ammo is designed to expand/fragment and should be your only choice.

Try some of the Hornady vmax or similar if you plan on shooting foxes or hunting.

I was getting good groups of inch and half with them at 100 yards so I wouldn't say it's the gun. More than likely it's me. I took that shot freehand

Sparks

Mod Note: Both of you re-read the forum charter, specifically Rule One. Break it again in here and people who should know better will be getting time off to cool down.

Sparks

And that being said, dodder, seriously, lose the FMJ stuff. Even muggins here knows that's the wrong stuff for that job.

yubabill1

Sparks wrote: »

And that being said, dodder, seriously, lose the FMJ stuff. Even muggins here knows that's the wrong stuff for that job.

Been shooting rabbits with 223 FMJ for ten years now.

Never lost one - a record only equalled by my old 17HMR (which always caused unacceptable meat damage).

Actually killed 2 rabbits with one shot at 175 yds lasered.

I always try to hit them in front shoulder and usually around 75yds, but have killed clean at just over 200yds lasered (self-imposed max distance).

Don't recommend FMJ for fox - never tried it, but imagine it's irresponsible - I'm sure a headshot or heartshot would be fine, but for me, after 30-odd years, I've learned to take the percentage shot which means expanding ammo.

tomtucker81

I copied the below extract from Wikipedia on FMJ bullets. They are not designed for hunting purposes, but for military use. Hollow points or soft tipped are.

Disadvantages

There are some disadvantages to jacketing a bullet.[6] For instance, full metal jacket bullets have different behavioural properties, both inside the barrel of the gun and also in flight. Whereas hollow point and soft-tipped bullets are designed to expand upon impact, metal jacketed bullets have a very limited capacity to expand. This generally makes the bullet pierce through a soft target, often leading to less severe wounding, and possibly failing to disable the target. Hollow point and soft tipped bullets are for use against soft targets only, such as animals or people, whereas full metal jacketed bullets can be used effectively against both soft and hard targets.

yubabill1

tomtucker81 wrote: »

I copied the below extract from Wikipedia on FMJ bullets. They are not designed for hunting purposes, but for military use. Hollow points or soft tipped are.

Disadvantages

There are some disadvantages to jacketing a bullet.[6] For instance, full metal jacket bullets have different behavioural properties, both inside the barrel of the gun and also in flight. Whereas hollow point and soft-tipped bullets are designed to expand upon impact, metal jacketed bullets have a very limited capacity to expand. This generally makes the bullet pierce through a soft target, often leading to less severe wounding, and possibly failing to disable the target. Hollow point and soft tipped bullets are for use against soft targets only, such as animals or people, whereas full metal jacketed bullets can be used effectively against both soft and hard targets.

That's absolutely correct insofar as it goes - but 1000+ ft/lbs passing through a rabbit-sized target is enough to kill by pure shock alone.

Wound channel not required in this instance.

Rabbits have been killed with .22LR for generations with less than 100ft/lbs muzzle energy and even the most efficient expanding ammo will not translate all that muzzle energy into the quarry.

So, if you accept that a rabbit can be killed with less than 100ft/lbs and the average 223 FMJ has more than 10x that at the muzzle; then it follows that less than 10% of the FMJ muzzle energy is required to kill a rabbit.

The point I'm making is that the 223 FMJ does not have to be efficient in translating its energy into the rabbit to kill it.

My experience is that a 223 FMJ knitting-needle wound in the boiler house will kill rabbits as far as you can hit them.