Applying for mortgage in sole name while co-habiting

GS2K

Hey guys,
Just a question on what sort of response to expect from my bank.
Myself and my GF have been renting together for 3 years approx.
Now i'm looking at applying for a mortgage in my own name.
The amount i would be applying for falls into the 3.5 times salary limit and i have over 20% deposit saved over the last 5 years.
Can i apply in my own name in the bank even though they will see from my tenancy agreement that i'm renting with my GF?
When i produce my documents they will see this and see the total rent coming out of my account every month but her paying rent into my account too.
We have no dependants or loans.

My job is permanent and can't see any obstacles other than the above.
I've been living my life mortgage ready for a few years so i could get everything together for the bank in a day or 2 as i'd be applying through BOI who are my bank.
If we were applying together it would be more difficult to get all our documents together and we would be applying for the same amount anyway.

All advice welcome

ted1

GS2K wrote: »

Hey guys,
Just a question on what sort of response to expect from my bank.
Myself and my GF have been renting together for 3 years approx.
Now i'm looking at applying for a mortgage in my own name.
The amount i would be applying for falls into the 3.5 times salary limit and i have over 20% deposit saved over the last 5 years.
Can i apply in my own name in the bank even though they will see from my tenancy agreement that i'm renting with my GF?
When i produce my documents they will see this and see the total rent coming out of my account every month but her paying rent into my account too.
We have no dependants or loans.

My job is permanent and can't see any obstacles other than the above.
I've been living my life mortgage ready for a few years so i could get everything together for the bank in a day or 2 as i'd be applying through BOI who are my bank.
If we were applying together it would be more difficult to get all our documents together and we would be applying for the same amount anyway.

All advice welcome

Shop around BOI interests rates are still higher than others. As your not married you should be ok going alone

MarkAnthony

Issues may arise in proof of savings for the deposit. Furthermore although you're applying in your own name, speak to a solicitor about any beneficial interest your GF may acquire; presumably you've not married for a reason and you never know what the future holds.

Mrs OBumble

MarkAnthony wrote: »

Issues may arise in proof of savings for the deposit. Furthermore although you're applying in your own name, speak to a solicitor about any beneficial interest your GF may acquire; presumably you've not married for a reason and you never know what the future holds.

As I understand it, once you're living together for five years, the marriage certificate is pretty irrelevant in the case of relationship endings. Can't remember the name of the act, but the gf gets rights.

OP would be well advised to discuss with a solicitor.

Rob Thomas

If you are applying on your own, as long as you are registering the property in your sole name, the Bank won't care who you live with.

Your GF won't have any rights to any property until after your buy one and even then that will depend on what input she has to paying the mortgage, improving the property etc. A proper will should take care of any issues here.

If there is any grey area in terms of your deposit, e.g. If you have saved more on foot of your GF having paid the rent to allow you to save, then you can simply get her to sign a deed of waiver of any interest in the property - your solicitor will take care of this.

john.han

The bank will probably want your partner to sign a deed of confirmation. This is a non-recourse mortgage essentially. She won't be a party to the loan agreement or need to be registered as an owner. Example here:
https://www.permanenttsb.ie/media/permanenttsb/pdfdocuments/Deed-of-Confirmation.pdf

Do the bank really need to know its your gf and not just a person you were house sharing with and you were in charge of the rent? As you are not jointly applying and not looking to have both your incomes considered why not just leave her out of the whole discussion apart from the fact you shared a house.

witchgirl26

My other half bought a house a while back solely in their own name. We had been renting together but it was only his name on application etc and bank didn't ask me to sign anything & I wasn't involved at all. Legally we have no connection to each other as not married.

Shiraz 4.99

You seem nice, would you like to meet my sister ?

Triceratops Ballet

When we (me and my sister) were completing mortgage paperwork in December '14 with our solicitor we had to sign a document saying that we were not co-habiting with any partners who could at a later date claim an interest in the house, while the bank has an interest. So I would advise checking in with your solicitor.

Ginny

There are rules brought in concerning co-habiting couples a few years ago.
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth_family_relationships/problems_in_marriages_and_other_relationships/redress_scheme_for_cohabiting_couples.html

Mrs OBumble

Some posters missing a significant point here, which is the joint impact of the Civil Partnership and Certain Rights and Obligations of Cohabitants Act 2010 (thanks for the link Ginny), and the laws governing what can happen re disposing of family homes. In particular, it's not only the GF's financial contribution that would be considered if you split up, but also any unpaid work (inc housework) or childbearing/rearing.

Banks are not blind to this, and will be very careful to make sure there's no risk you you defaulting but them being unable to see the house because your now-GF / future-ex (*) will not agree.

The CI site says that it is possible to contract out of redress scheme, so there is a way to address this - with the right legal advice - separately for both of you.


(*) Please be clear: I'm not trying to paint the devil on the wall. I sincerely hope you have a long and fulfilling life together. What I've described is a possible scenario which a competent banker WILL consider when assessing the risks of what could go wrong with a mortgage for you.

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Some posters missing a significant point here, which is the joint impact of the Civil Partnership and Certain Rights and Obligations of Cohabitants Act 2010 (thanks for the link Ginny), and the laws governing what can happen re disposing of family homes. In particular, it's not only the GF's financial contribution that would be considered if you split up, but also any unpaid work (inc housework) or childbearing/rearing.

Banks are not blind to this, and will be very careful to make sure there's no risk you you defaulting but them being unable to see the house because your now-GF / future-ex (*) will not agree.

The CI site says that it is possible to contract out of redress scheme, so there is a way to address this - with the right legal advice - separately for both of you.


(*) Please be clear: I'm not trying to paint the devil on the wall. I sincerely hope you have a long and fulfilling life together. What I've described is a possible scenario which a competent banker WILL consider when assessing the risks of what could go wrong with a mortgage for you.

I still don't see why the bank need to be told anymore detail other than you were sharing a house with this person and they paid you the rent.

A man and woman sharing say a two bed flat for a number of years who are not involved with each other is not unheard off. I know at least two sets of people living in this situation.

Sure a person could buy a house tomorrow, meet someone next week and be living together 6 months later and there isn't a thing the bank could do.

MarkAnthony

Ailani Substantial Sideshow wrote: »

I still don't see why the bank need to be told anymore detail other than you were sharing a house with this person and they paid you the rent.

A man and woman sharing say a two bed flat for a number of years who are not involved with each other is not unheard off. I know at least two sets of people living in this situation.

Sure a person could buy a house tomorrow, meet someone next week and be living together 6 months later and there isn't a thing the bank could do.

But that's not the OP's situation and I'd be very surprised if the question doesn't come up. He can't lie and even if he did I suspect there will be an easily followed paper trail on the bank statements.

chopper6

None of the banks concern.

They want to see savings,pay slips and job security...they're not in the slightest bit concerned who you're living or not living with.

As for any issues arising if your gf moves in and starts helping with the mortgage,helping you to do it up etc..that's more a legal matter after the fact and doesn't concern the banks at all.

Mrs OBumble

chopper6 wrote: »

None of the banks concern.

They want to see savings,pay slips and job security...they're not in the slightest bit concerned who you're living or not living with.

Do you have personal experience of a bank actually not being interested in co-habitation status during a mortgage application, or are you just saying that you think they shouldn't be interested?




And as far as just not telling them: if they ask and you lie and put your signature to it, then I'm pretty sure that would be called fraud.

chopper6

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Do you have personal experience of a bank actually not being interested in co-habitation status during a mortgage application, or are you just saying that you think they shouldn't be interested?


And as far as just not telling them: if they ask and you lie and put your signature to it, then I'm pretty sure that would be called fraud.

Yes I did it myself as did a friend of mine.

The banks have no interest in your personal life,they didn't even ask me where I got the deposit.

As long as your mortgage payments are a certain multiple of your net income the banks couldn't care less who you're seeing.

Fraud? Yeah,that's a good one...what percentage of mortgage applications contain some ommision/ falsehood or exaggeration?

Fraud is to obtain goods or services by deliberate deception, not failing to tell the banks who you're shacked up with.

Triceratops Ballet

chopper6 wrote: »

Fraud is to obtain goods or services by deliberate deception, not failing to tell the banks who you're shacked up with.

Fraud also includes signing a legal document in the presence of a solicitor stating that you are not cohabiting and there is no third party who can claim an interest in a property when in-fact that is not the case.

The bank do obviously care that in the event that you are unable to pay your mortgage that they can't stake their claim on their interest in the house due to the fact that there is a third party who has a claim to the property as they have been living in the house for x number of years.

chopper6

dottie_lottie wrote: »

Fraud also includes signing a legal document in the presence of a solicitor stating that you are not cohabiting and there is no third party who can claim an interest in a property when in-fact that is not the case.

The bank do obviously care that in the event that you are unable to pay your mortgage that they can't stake their claim on their interest in the house due to the fact that there is a third party who has a claim to the property as they have been living in the house for x number of years.

The OP clearly stated he is applying for the mortage by himself.

If there's an interested party the interest,financial or otherwise must be noted at the time of the application.

If a borrower cannot meet the mortage the banks will move to reposses the property and an issues with third party interest is conveyancing matter between the borrower and the third party.

The issue of cohabitation is only important if it's also one of co-dependence..ie if the OP is relying upon the input of his GF to meet the mortage payments.

MarkAnthony

MarkAnthony wrote: »

But that's not the OP's situation and I'd be very surprised if the question doesn't come up. He can't lie and even if he did I suspect there will be an easily followed paper trail on the bank statements.

Paper trail of what? A person transferring money for rent and maybe bills? This is a common situation amoung people house sharing. One of the few stumbling blocks would be if they have a joint account in the same bank they are applying to for the mortgage.

It never ceases to amaze me peoples willingness to volunteer information in these situations which will probably make their life more difficult and an easy alternative is available.

As I said previously a person could meet someone and move them in after the house is bought and the bank can't do one thing about it. Another scenario would be a person buying a house while going out with someone but not previously living with them and moving in together. Again the bank will have no clue. Im going out with someone for a number of years but I've never answered anything other than "single" on any bank form.

The Spider

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Do you have personal experience of a bank actually not being interested in co-habitation status during a mortgage application, or are you just saying that you think they shouldn't be interested?




And as far as just not telling them: if they ask and you lie and put your signature to it, then I'm pretty sure that would be called fraud.

The application for a mortgage asks the following questions:

Are you married?

Are you engaged?

Do you have children?

Nowhere does it ask about co-habiting and I remember at the time, as I was living with my then girlfriend now wife, pretty much deciding to give the information I was asked and not volunteer additional information.

In fact I purposely didn't ask her to marry me until everything was done dusted and we were in the house.

Only ever give the information that you're obliged to on the application form, if it doesn't ask the question then it's not relevant from my point of view. It's up to the bank to address anything like that in the application form.

Triceratops Ballet

It doesn't ask you to disclose co-habitation on the application form, that's correct.

However I was asked to sign a statement to say I was not co-habiting or there was no third party interest in the house after the application stage, just prior to drawdown (about 8 weeks ago) I'm not disputing that this hasn't always been the case, but it certainly seems to be now.

Signing that statement when you are co-habiting would be fraud. I don't have the exact wording of the statement as it comes in the solicitors pack for the mortgage rather than with the offer letter. Maybe it's something that not all banks are doing, but BOI certainly are.

The Spider

dottie_lottie wrote: »

It doesn't ask you to disclose co-habitation on the application form, that's correct.

However I was asked to sign a statement to say I was not co-habiting or there was no third party interest in the house after the application stage, just prior to drawdown (about 8 weeks ago) I'm not disputing that this hasn't always been the case, but it certainly seems to be now.

Signing that statement when you are co-habiting would be fraud. I don't have the exact wording of the statement as it comes in the solicitors pack for the mortgage rather than with the offer letter. Maybe it's something that not all banks are doing, but BOI certainly are.

If you're asked specifically if you're cohabiting then you have to say yes, however if you're not asked then don't volunteer the information.

witchgirl26

dottie_lottie wrote: »

It doesn't ask you to disclose co-habitation on the application form, that's correct.

However I was asked to sign a statement to say I was not co-habiting or there was no third party interest in the house after the application stage, just prior to drawdown (about 8 weeks ago) I'm not disputing that this hasn't always been the case, but it certainly seems to be now.

Signing that statement when you are co-habiting would be fraud. I don't have the exact wording of the statement as it comes in the solicitors pack for the mortgage rather than with the offer letter. Maybe it's something that not all banks are doing, but BOI certainly are.

That's odd coz my other half didn't have to sign anything like that & also with BOI. He was asked during the process if he was co-habiting. He said yes & they wanted to know how long. As it was under the limit & there were no children, it was no problem & never brought up again. This was only mid last year. It's an odd one.

MarkAnthony

Ailani Substantial Sideshow wrote: »

Paper trail of what? A person transferring money for rent and maybe bills? This is a common situation amoung people house sharing. One of the few stumbling blocks would be if they have a joint account in the same bank they are applying to for the mortgage.

It never ceases people willingness to volunteer information in these situations which will probably make their life more difficult and an easy alternative is available.

As I said previously a person could meet someone and move them in after the house is bought and the bank can't do one thing about it. Another scenario would be a person buying a house while going out with someone but not previously living with them and moving in together. Again the bank will have no clue. Im going out with someone for a number of years but I've never answered anything other than "single" on any bank form.

The issue there as has been pointed out by Mrs O'B and others is there might be a legal requirement to mention it. There certainly is if the contract requires it. Further on down the line there may be an issue if the GF sues. People are gonna do what they're gonna do. I've made lies of omission myself, it's not for me to comment on the morality of it. I'm simply pointing out some of the pitfalls.

chopper6

MarkAnthony wrote: »

The issue there as has been pointed out by Mrs O'B and others is there might be a legal requirement to mention it. .

There isn't.

MarkAnthony

chopper6 wrote: »

There isn't.

Please back up that statement in all conceivable scenarios for all lending institutions.

April 73

Why does the OP want to apply in his name only? Because the deposit is his & has been saved by him and the mortgage will be paid solely by him? Then it's fair enough to do that.

But he's been living with his GF for three years, she pays half the rent & he says they don't want to have to bother to produce the paperwork necessary for a joint application. If the GF intends to move in & contribute half the mortgage & bills to where they live together - I'd say that's potentially a very bad deal for her.

If it's just the hassle of paperwork, that's not a good enough reason not to buy together.

The Spider

April 73 wrote: »

Why does the OP want to apply in his name only? Because the deposit is his & has been saved by him and the mortgage will be paid solely by him? Then it's fair enough to do that.

But he's been living with his GF for three years, she pays half the rent & he says they don't want to have to bother to produce the paperwork necessary for a joint application. If the GF intends to move in & contribute half the mortgage & bills to where they live together - I'd say that's potentially a very bad deal for her.

If it's just the hassle of paperwork, that's not a good enough reason not to buy together.

Lot of assumptions there, maybe he's saved the deposit way before he met his girlfriend? Unless they get married then whatever he buys is his, and even if they get married it's still his unless kids come along.

His girlfriend might have her own debts incurred before they met that might prevent a joint mortgage?

Speaking as someone who had a long term relationship in the past that ended, (luckily we were renting so it wasn't as tough as if we had bought property together) if you can buy on your own then you should, if you get married at a later date great, but if the relationship ends you're left with a mess.

Even from a practical point of view if his girlfriend has no debts and he wants to buy, why shouldn't he? if they get married at a later date it's good to have one partner with no debts incurred.

If his girlfriend pays rent, because that's what it is unless they're married how is it a bad deal for her? If he's saved the deposit and bought the house then it's his, sorry but it'd be a bad deal for him if he went and put her name on the mortgage, did all the hard work of saving for years etc, and then the relationship broke down and she was claiming 'her' half of the house.

You have to go into this cold and leave emotion at the door, if he has no intention of getting married in the forseeable future then he really shouldn't put her name on the mortgage, hard to know what could happen down the road.

I think a lot of people ended up in situations where when a relationship broke down they couldn't go their seperate ways because of a house, in fact I know more than one couple in that situation.

April 73

I didn't make any assumptions. I said that if the OP has saved the deposit himself & will be paying the mortgage himself then it's fair to apply in his sole name.

If however they are treating it as a joint venture, but don't want the hassle of making a joint application with joint paperwork, then it's not a great idea for the other person not to be fully involved in the mortgage & the ownership of the house.

No issue with someone buying in their own name but both parties need to go into it fully advised about their situation & what it might mean in the future. "Living together" doesn't mean no legal obligations to each other anymore with changes to legislation.

The Spider

April 73 wrote: »

I didn't make any assumptions. I said that if the OP has saved the deposit himself & will be paying the mortgage himself then it's fair to apply in his sole name.

If however they are treating it as a joint venture, but don't want the hassle of making a joint application with joint paperwork, then it's not a great idea for the other person not to be fully involved in the mortgage & the ownership of the house.

No issue with someone buying in their own name but both parties need to go into it fully advised about their situation & what it might mean in the future. "Living together" doesn't mean no legal obligations to each other anymore with changes to legislation.

I didn't get that he didn't want the hassle, the OP said:

My job is permanent and can't see any obstacles other than the above.
I've been living my life mortgage ready for a few years so i could get everything together for the bank in a day or 2 as i'd be applying through BOI who are my bank.
If we were applying together it would be more difficult to get all our documents together and we would be applying for the same amount anyway.

All advice welcome

So more difficult can mean the bank may not look as favourably for whatever reason, the OP will be paying the mortgage himself if the house is in his name, however he's quite entitled to charge his girlfriend rent if she's living there.

Maybe he won't and will cover it himself, either way it's his property and he's entitled to charge his girlfriend or other tenants rent, or not as the case may be.

The OP has been saving since before he met his girlfriend and has been living his life mortgage ready for a few years, however this is a big investment on his side so he's better off making sure he has all his bases covered.

April 73

"If we were applying together it would be more difficult to get the documents together"

Only the OP knows exactly what he means by that. "Difficult" because of possible debt, job situation, couldn't be bothered with the hassle. Who knows?

Triceratops Ballet

if the Op's ability to pay is based on the fact that the girlfriend is paying rent into his account every month, the bank might also advise that they have to make a joint application. They may see it that without her contribution to rent he would not have been able to save at the same level he has been.

I'm not judging the op or saying he shouldn't buy alone, he is perfectly entitled to do what he wants. I'm just putting forward what might be seen as potential questions the bank may have.

The Spider

dottie_lottie wrote: »

if the Op's ability to pay is based on the fact that the girlfriend is paying rent into his account every month, the bank might also advise that they have to make a joint application. They may see it that without her contribution to rent he would not have been able to save at the same level he has been.

I'm not judging the op or saying he shouldn't buy alone, he is perfectly entitled to do what he wants. I'm just putting forward what might be seen as potential questions the bank may have.

That's a good point, he would have to prove that he could pay alone, however the bank will calculate that based on his salary and outgoings, in y experience all debts will have to be cleared before hand, car loans etc.

chopper6

The Spider wrote: »

That's a good point, he would have to prove that he could pay alone, however the bank will calculate that based on his salary and outgoings, in y experience all debts will have to be cleared before hand, car loans etc.

They will usually ask for details from his employer to show how much he's earning,overtime and the permanancy or otherwise of the job.

If the total mortage expenditure is less than 30% of his net pay then it's tickity boo.

In the case of a self-employed person they will need audited accounts for the previous three years(at least) and apply the same net income rule.


IF the op is actually dependent on the GF's financial imput to secure the mortage then things are different entirely...

Mrs OBumble

The Spider wrote: »

You have to go into this cold and leave emotion at the door, if he has no intention of getting married in the forseeable future then he really shouldn't put her name on the mortgage, hard to know what could happen down the road.

You didn't read the link that was provided.

The Civil Partnership and Certain Rights and Obligations of Cohabitants Act 2010 means that if you've been together for 5+ years (or 2+ with a kid in common), and your relationship ends, then you are in exactly the same position that you would have been if you were married. The shared home is regarded as a family home. The ex-partners can have a claim on each other's assets - and this will be judged on their contribtuion. This isn't only measured in cash terms either. Housework counts. So does fore-going the opportunity to get on the property-ladder (I hate that phrase, but there's something in it) buy yourself because you were living in an intimate relationship a person who chose not to share with you.

The days of saying "so long as we're not married, it doesn't matter" are over.

The Spider

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

You didn't read the link that was provided.

The Civil Partnership and Certain Rights and Obligations of Cohabitants Act 2010 means that if you've been together for 5+ years (or 2+ with a kid in common), and your relationship ends, then you are in exactly the same position that you would have been if you were married. The shared home is regarded as a family home. The ex-partners can have a claim on each other's assets - and this will be judged on their contribtuion. This isn't only measured in cash terms either. Housework counts. So does fore-going the opportunity to get on the property-ladder (I hate that phrase, but there's something in it) buy yourself because you were living in an intimate relationship a person who chose not to share with you.

The days of saying "so long as we're not married, it doesn't matter" are over.

They've been together 3 years so, he's ok if he buys on his own, granted they may have a claim after a couple of years, maybe a rentbook would be in order? (Joke)

chopper6

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

You didn't read the link that was provided.

The Civil Partnership and Certain Rights and Obligations of Cohabitants Act 2010 means that if you've been together for 5+ years (or 2+ with a kid in common), and your relationship ends, then you are in exactly the same position that you would have been if you were married. The shared home is regarded as a family home. The ex-partners can have a claim on each other's assets - and this will be judged on their contribtuion. This isn't only measured in cash terms either. Housework counts. So does fore-going the opportunity to get on the property-ladder (I hate that phrase, but there's something in it) buy yourself because you were living in an intimate relationship a person who chose not to share with you.

The days of saying "so long as we're not married, it doesn't matter" are over.

They need to be cohabiting for 5 years..to have any title to his new property she needs to move in at the same time as him and still be there 5 years later.

In practice,a claim on somebody's assets can only be made effectively if the person is married or they have made a substantial financial contribution to the upkeep or improvement of the home..either way,it's a matter for the partners to sort out and doesnt concern the bank unless there's an attempt to dispose of the property or the relationship ends and the gf wants her "share".

The usual outcome is that the mortage holder raises a personal loan to buy out the partner..it really need be no more complicated than that.