Luas - lack of security

How Soon Is Now

On the Luas home from the square went to see a film..... Anyway was waiting at the stop outside square when gang of bout 5 teenagers turned into about 30 and two traveller young ones starting thumping the head off each other.

Luas was held up they where on the track cops didn't turn up of course why would they! So most them ran some them got on Luas but ya more scumbag s being scumbags and as usual they get away with it at the public s expense!

There seriously needs to be security on the Luas all day every day to keep an eye on what's going on because the red line is a total free for all.

They know it's a problem as well but unfortunately there's no choice a lot of people need to use public transport so it can't be avoided.

GLaDOS

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stehyl15

Ireland should have its own transport police who can make arrests also i noticed security at the balally luas stop on Thursday why would they be there when there is no trouble on the green line and they could easily be deployed on the red line where there is usually most of the trouble. I think transport police would be a lot better than security though i dont think would be any trouble with proper police around

How Soon Is Now

stehyl15 wrote: »

Ireland should have its own transport police who can make arrests also i noticed security at the balally luas stop on Thursday why would they be there when there is know trouble on the green line and they could easily be deployed on the red line where there is usually most of the trouble. I think transport police would be a lot better than security though i dont think would be any trouble with proper police around

I'm on it everyday one way or another with work etc you see security coming out of town at night most nites but that's about it. They should be there as long as its running in some form.

The problem with red line is there's a lot of dead spots it travels threw that people get up to all kinds and if there's no one around to tell them otherwise it turns into a total mess.

Every weekend I have to watch and listen to the same crap and it seems every Sunday there's fighting at one the Tallaght stops why Sunday I don't know!

AlekSmart

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

I'm on it everyday one way or another with work etc you see security coming out of town at night most nites but that's about it. They should be there as long as its running in some form.

The problem with red line is there's a lot of dead spots it travels threw that people get up to all kinds and if there's no one around to tell them otherwise it turns into a total mess.

Every weekend I have to watch and listen to the same crap and it seems every Sunday there's fighting at one the Tallaght stops why Sunday I don't know!

All well and good,except you will soon be told that you are exaggurating,or being a wuss etc etc....some posters will tell you that they use the Red Line every day/night and have never seen anything out of the ordinary....nothing to see here..move along now....everything is cool.

How Soon Is Now

AlekSmart wrote: »

All well and good,except you will soon be told that you are exaggurating,or being a wuss etc etc....some posters will tell you that they use the Red Line every day/night and have never seen anything out of the ordinary....nothing to see here..move along now....everything is cool.

Chances are u won't see something every day but it's frequent enough to be an issue that needs to be sorted.

It's a playground for scumbags at times and anyone who wants to be a prick. The weekends or holiday periods are even worse.

AlekSmart

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

Chances are u won't see something every day but it's frequent enough to be an issue that needs to be sorted.

It's a playground for scumbags at times and anyone who wants to be a prick. The weekends or holiday periods are even worse.

My contention is that the refusal to confront and control this codology is restricting the ability of Luas Red Line to prosper to the extent it should.

How Soon Is Now

Someone will be seriously injured or hurt someday maybe then they will take notice which is stupid.

I mean what I watched was just a simple example today that wouldn't of happend if there where a few heavys around.

One Luas driver on his own can't sort these situations out.

coylemj

stehyl15 wrote: »

Ireland should have its own transport police who can make arrests also i noticed security at the balally luas stop on Thursday why would they be there when there is no trouble on the green line and they could easily be deployed on the red line where there is usually most of the trouble.

Because if they deployed all of the security resources on the red line, the bleeding heart socialist TDs and councillors from Dublin West would be whinging about heavy-handed tactics, discrimination and all that sort of stuff.

LXFlyer

stehyl15 wrote: »

Ireland should have its own transport police who can make arrests also i noticed security at the balally luas stop on Thursday why would they be there when there is no trouble on the green line and they could easily be deployed on the red line where there is usually most of the trouble. I think transport police would be a lot better than security though i dont think would be any trouble with proper police around

There certainly are problems on the green line, in the vicinity of Ballyogan in particular - a friend was spat upon by a group of children in an unprovoked attack.

moc moc a moc

lxflyer wrote: »

a friend was spat upon by a group of children in an unprovoked attack.

Good lord, how will they ever recover from the trauma? This must rank up there with the worst of Luas-related incidents.

jrar

moc moc a moc wrote: »

Good lord, how will they ever recover from the trauma? This must rank up there with the worst of Luas-related incidents.

Maybe not but it IS just another example of how feral little scumbags are being allowed to behave as they wish and to impose their low-life values on the rest of us.

If that was a family member of yours that it happened too, would you be so blasé about it ? No, thought not !

How Soon Is Now

jrar wrote: »

Maybe not but it IS just another example of how feral little scumbags are being allowed to behave as they wish and to impose their low-life values on the rest of us.

If that was a family member of yours that it happened too, would you be so blasé about it ? No, thought not !

Ah it wouldn't be fun for anyone but I'd imagine there's a huge difference in what happens on both lines. I never had any issues on the green line when I lived in Rathmines actually but that was years ago.

LXFlyer

moc moc a moc wrote: »

Good lord, how will they ever recover from the trauma? This must rank up there with the worst of Luas-related incidents.

Do you consider that acceptable behaviour?

It's possibly one of the most disgusting things anyone can do.

My friend was sitting on the tram at the time minding his own business and they all spat upon him as they jumped off the tram.

Perhaps you may think that an insignificant episode, but he certainly didn't.

AlekSmart

moc moc a moc wrote: »

Good lord, how will they ever recover from the trauma? This must rank up there with the worst of Luas-related incidents.

Oh well OP,.....post#5 ....as I was saying.......:rolleyes:

stehyl15

Anyway i think the guards should patrol the luas as often as the private security do there would a lot less trouble if they were all truncheon charged

MGWR

lxflyer wrote: »

Do you consider that acceptable behaviour?

It's possibly one of the most disgusting things anyone can do.

My friend was sitting on the tram at the time minding his own business and they all spat upon him as they jumped off the tram.

Perhaps you may think that an insignificant episode, but he certainly didn't.

These children were riding unaccompanied? Of what age?

moc moc a moc

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

Ah it wouldn't be fun for anyone but I'd imagine there's a huge difference in what happens on both lines.

Exactly my point. Being spat on by children is pretty tame in comparison to what red line users see day-to-day. Lord help the timid Southsiders when the two lines are linked in a few years :eek: Y'all gonna see some sh1t.

jrar wrote: »

If that was a family member of yours that it happened too, would you be so blasé about it ? No, thought not !

I don't know if you're aware of this, but on Boards I'm not actually able to answer your question in the middle of your own post. Hence, your follow-up is nonsensical.

SteM

moc moc a moc wrote: »

Exactly my point. Being spat on by children is pretty tame in comparison to what red line users see day-to-day. Lord help the timid Southsiders when the two lines are linked in a few years :eek: Y'all gonna see some sh1t.

Why do people think this? The scumbags that are causing trouble on the red line are on it because they are going from one place to another. Why do people think that just because the 2 lines will be joined they'll go onto the green section to cause trouble? They're happy enough causing trouble on the red line and it's closer to home. Scumbags are lazy people, almost by definition.

Polar101

moc moc a moc wrote: »

Good lord, how will they ever recover from the trauma? This must rank up there with the worst of Luas-related incidents.

I've never been spat on on public transport - nor would I expect it to happen. I'd consider it completely unacceptable.

Not sure how much a transport police would help with the antisocial behaviour (LUAS 'feral' kids, forced route changes on certain Dublin Bus routes, etc). At least I don't think the benefits are too obvious.

stehyl15

Polar101 wrote: »

Not sure how much a transport police would help with the antisocial behaviour (LUAS 'feral' kids, forced route changes on certain Dublin Bus routes, etc). At least I don't think the benefits are too obvious.

They'd certainly be an improvment on the current security

LXFlyer

I could also point out that the two lines are not joining - they will still be separate!

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

lxflyer wrote: »

I could also point out that the two lines are not joining - they will still be separate!

But the one going through the city up to cabra etc will be another homing ground for similar idiotic carry on and a "junkie express" to the city per say. (Not calling everyone who will use it a junkie but will have similar or if not more crummy carry on than the red line due to the nature of the areas it will be serving)

Conway635

MGWR wrote: »

These children were riding unaccompanied? Of what age?

I am the friend that lxflyer refers to.

The gang of kids - probably aged 7-13 (I'm not great at judging child age) were at that time riding back and forth between Ballyogan Wood and Glencairn constantly every day from early afternoon onwards, some boarding LUAS by foot, some with bikes. The size of the gang would vary from 4 or 5 up to around 10.

As I was being spat on by one half of the gang leaving through the door I was near, the other half were doing the same to a young woman who they referred to as "you slitty-eyed chinky C***"

Not too long after that incident, my main work location changed from southside to northside, so I can't say that this gang is still carrying on, but they were certainly riding unchecked every day for a period of several months.

C635

LXFlyer

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

But the one going through the city up to cabra etc will be another homing ground for similar idiotic carry on and a "junkie express" to the city per say. (Not calling everyone who will use it a junkie but will have similar or if not more crummy carry on than the red line due to the nature of the areas it will be serving)

Some of the areas that the Green Line extension serves would have "issues" alright, but I'm not sure that you're suddenly going to get hordes of troublemakers coming south along the Green Line beyond the city centre.

The issues that the Red Line suffers from were all there before on the buses that served that route (78a, 79, 77, 77a) but as many people never bothered with the bus it was "out of sight, out of mind". In other words the issues migrated to the trams from the buses and are far more obvious.

Slippin Jimmy

When the line is extended most of the trouble makers will get off in town. That seems to be their stomping ground. The odd few might head out towards the south side, but I would imagine they would be few.

LXFlyer

Duffff-Man wrote: »

When the line is extended most of the trouble makers will get off in town. That seems to be their stomping ground. The odd few might head out towards the south side, but I would imagine they would be few.

Exactly - those on the Red Line are still making the same trips as before, but on a tram rather than the bus.

BetterThanThou

The luas is grand, I think, in terms of security,a lot better than the DART or Dublin Bus, I've seen a total of one inspector and zero security on Dublin Bus, on the DART I've rarely seen an inspector and never security.(though, that said, I probably use the DART about once a month), red line Luas isn't nearly as bad as people say it is, and it's my main mode of transport, I've used it at least twice a week pretty much every week for the last 4 years or so. I've used it at all hours, worst I've seen is someone rolling a joint or a few people who are obviously off their face having an argument a bit louder than they should be, no one has ever given me any hassle. It's easy to say they should put security on every tram, but then they'd need at least 2 or 3 guys per tram, I'd imagine there's probably about 12 trams running on the red line at any one time, so that would be a minimum of 24 guys working security at all times. I just don't think it's realistic and it would lead to an increase in ticket price. Thinking there should be security on every luas is like thinking there should be a police officer on every single street in Dublin at all times, it's just not realistic.

yosser hughes

No security on Red Luas this evening going in to town, when there normally is security. A bunch of skangers got on in Kylemore, swinging out of bars etc.

foggy_lad

stehyl15 wrote: »

They'd certainly be an improvment on the current security

So people want Gardai dedicated to public transport while the rest of the country goes to lawlessness and disorder hell?

BIGGER cities and countries are able to have transport police simply because they are so much bigger in scale than Irish public transport but to provide the same levels of policing on the buses and trains and trams would cost more than the value gained.

Nothing will stop these tramps on public transport until the laws are changed to allow for harsh treatment by police and security where they can be put to the ground and restrained using suitable non lethal force at the first sign of non-compliance.

Duffff-Man wrote: »

When the line is extended most of the trouble makers will get off in town. That seems to be their stomping ground. The odd few might head out towards the south side, but I would imagine they would be few.

There are two groupings of troublemakers, older drug taking addicts, drug dealers, drunks, mentally ill/unstable poeple etc

these people are who we see in the city centre as it is where they beg and steal and pickpocket etc. You would think that the "homeless" would have stopped hanging around Busaras now that there are so many places for them but there are still loads there every night looking to rob genuine travellers of their bolongings phones etc and pick pockets and beg.

and then there are gangs younger kids between 8-18 who i would describe as soon to be drug taking addicts, drug dealers, drunks, mentally ill/unstable poeple etc. The only solution for these little scrotes is a zero tolerance on travel without tickets, flood the lines affected with security who check tickets and eject the little ****.photograph them and then ban them from the trams so when they have to go to school by bus they have to explain to mummy what little ***** they have been!


Edit Apologies for any offence caused by my use of a word I have only now been made aware was banned in this forum. There was no intention to offend anyone in my use of the word.

stehyl15

Pickpockets and junkies are a problem in every main train station in the world nothing new and unique to ireland they should not have security as they should not be classed as private property

How Soon Is Now

stehyl15 wrote: »

Pickpockets and junkies are a problem in every main train station in the world nothing new and unique to ireland they should not have security as they should not be classed as private property

It's not just them it's all kinds.

If there was security there it would stop a lot of this because a lot of it happens because there's no one there to scare them or tell them otherwise.

Its like leaving a class room full of kids or teens unattended for to long they go crazy and get up to all kinds.

For every normal journey I have on the red line there's two that involve some sort of anti social crap and it's the paying customers that have to deal with it.

stehyl15

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

It's not just them it's all kinds.

If there was security there it would stop a lot of this because a lot of it happens because there's no one there to scare them or tell them otherwise.

Its like leaving a class room full of kids or teens unattended for to long they go crazy and get up to all kinds.

For every normal journey I have on the red line there's two that involve some sort of anti social crap and it's the paying customers that have to deal with it.

This is why i hate the public transport system in this country because people think they are customers on trams/trains because they so shagging over-priced. Public transport is for everyone including toerags unfortunately i dont mind being on a tram where everyone is killing each other once its cheap tbh. This why i have a problem with companies like veoila runing the luas i think that fares should just be there to cover the fuel/electricity costs and drivers wages i do not like profit making companies running our public transport. They are not there to make a profit they there to provide a service.

How Soon Is Now

stehyl15 wrote: »

This is why i hate the public transport system in this country because people think they are customers on trams/trains because they so shagging over-priced. Public transport is for everyone including toerags unfortunately i dont mind being on a tram where everyone is killing each other once its cheap tbh. This why i have a problem with companies like veoila runing the luas i think that fares should just be there to cover the fuel/electricity costs and drivers wages i do not like profit making companies running our public transport. They are not there to make a profit they there to provide a service.

I wouldn't mind paying a bit more if it meant the whole service was run correctly for everyone.

It's basic stuff it's not fair on the staff or the customers to have wanker s making there jobs/trip ****. Everyone has a right to use it and avail of it but everyone has a right to a safe some what comfortable trip as well.

As it is its better value then the bus and a quicker service but at times there's no control on the Luas or at the stops.

Like I said before one of these days something very serious will happen and then everyone will be questioning the system when it's to late.....

mickoc

after reading and hearing everything about the Luas red line I thank the stars I have never had to travel on it. it obviously has a **** load of problems and anyone that says otherwise should probably count themselves lucky. I am sure everyone that has ever travelled on it has felt some edge at some stage.

cdebru

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

Someone will be seriously injured or hurt someday maybe then they will take notice which is stupid.

I mean what I watched was just a simple example today that wouldn't of happend if there where a few heavys around.

One Luas driver on his own can't sort these situations out.

Isn't that the way Ireland works though, no point addressing obvious problems until someone gets killed, then the hand wringing starts but little changes.

Transport police are what is required private security are next to useless in reality and the people causing the problems no they can do SFA.

Transport police and undercover transport police so scumbags never know when the tram is actually being policed and have to presume it always is.

Qualitymark

Bus conductors used to keep order on buses and it worked well. In Holland recently I encountered conductors on trams. No need for gardai, a conductor should be enough.

stehyl15

Qualitymark wrote: »

Bus conductors used to keep order on buses and it worked well. In Holland recently I encountered conductors on trams. No need for gardai, a conductor should be enough.

The inpectors on the luas are a joke they look for a names and adresses/fines off people who cleary wont co-operate with them rather than doing the simple thing and kicking them off

Qualitymark

stehyl15 wrote: »

The inpectors on the luas are a joke they look for a names and adresses/fines off people who cleary wont co-operate with them rather than doing the simple thing and kicking them off

Whereas the conductors on the old buses used simply point and say "Off!" and whoever was causing trouble would slink off, sometimes with a bit of a whinge first, but off.

Del2005

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

Someone will be seriously injured or hurt someday maybe then they will take notice which is stupid.
.

A person was killed a few weeks ago and nothing has been done.

coylemj wrote: »

Because if they deployed all of the security resources on the red line, the bleeding heart socialist TDs and councillors from Dublin West would be whinging about heavy-handed tactics, discrimination and all that sort of stuff.

stehyl15 wrote: »

Anyway i think the guards should patrol the luas as often as the private security do there would a lot less trouble if they were all truncheon charged

Security in this country is useless, as the scumbags know, only the Gardaí can deal with the trouble on the Red Line.

Qualitymark wrote: »

Bus conductors used to keep order on buses and it worked well. In Holland recently I encountered conductors on trams. No need for gardai, a conductor should be enough.

I don't think that conductors on buses would have as much influence these days as people think. People used to respect people in roles of authority now it seems to be a game to get them to react to video and claim, the scumbags give every type of abuse to the Luas staff and they always operate in groups.

How Soon Is Now

Del2005 wrote: »

A person was killed a few weeks ago and nothing has been done.

Really!?

I heard nothing what happened?

cdebru

Qualitymark wrote: »

Whereas the conductors on the old buses used simply point and say "Off!" and whoever was causing trouble would slink off, sometimes with a bit of a whinge first, but off.

A different age that's 30 years ago or more the world has changed

end of the road

moc moc a moc wrote: »

Good lord, how will they ever recover from the trauma? This must rank up there with the worst of Luas-related incidents.

being spat upon is disgusting. he's right to point it out that the red line isn't the only line where something can happen.

Del2005

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

Really!?

I heard nothing what happened?

Can't find the story but a person was attacked on the Luas on the way back from a gig in the Point a few months ago.

n97 mini

cdebru wrote: »

A different age that's 30 years ago or more the world has changed

I was on the DLR recently and a few people were caught without tickets. "You have to leave now" followed by the inspector holding the doors open using the key in the panel yoke. Offenders slinked off (probably only to get on again on the next train).

How Soon Is Now

Del2005 wrote: »

Can't find the story but a person was attacked on the Luas on the way back from a gig in the Point a few months ago.

Ahhh ok ya I remember that I work beside where it happened didn't know he died though.

Qualitymark

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/man-beaten-with-bottle-in-horror-attack-on-luas-30832867.html

Man beaten with bottle in horror attack on Luas

A 40-year-old man suffered horrific facial injuries after he was savagely beaten over the head with a bottle in an unprovoked attack while on a Luas tram as he travelled home after a concert.

Gardaí warned the public to be vigilant. If you're attacked, it's because you're not vigilant, you know!

When the red-line tram that [Noel O'Rourke] was travelling on reached the Smithfield stop, a gang of thugs caused a disturbance, these included a female and a number of males.

They targeted Mr O'Rourke who was hit a number of times with a bottle during a vicious assault.

Unsurprisingly, he's described as "deeply traumatised", having had his eye socket fractured and needed staples in his head.

The gardaí at the time said they had "good-quality CCTV" of the incident. This was on December 13, 2014, so Christmas intervened and there may not yet have been any prosecutions.

Almost 1,000 incidents of anti-social behaviour and threats to passengers and staff occurred on the Luas last year, according to recent figures.

The article goes on to give the numbers for 2013 (677 incidents, several prosecutions pending), and 2012 (212, including spitting and "serious verbal abuse").

So if the number of incidents has ballooned from 212 two years ago to 1,000 last year, this is clearly a problem out of control.

listermint

Del2005 wrote: »

A person was killed a few weeks ago and nothing has been done.

This is a complete fabrication.

Qualitymark

listermint wrote: »

This is a complete fabrication.

Or maybe a mistake… we're all human, we misremember things.

stehyl15

I was in London at the weekend and I have to say i was very impressed with the amount of btp patrolling all the main tube/mainland rail stations and tfl officals. They act as a real deterant to any anti-social behavior and are friendly and when appoarched unlike the stt lads who you'd nearly be affraid to ask directions or for help with the ticket machines for example.

pappe

I happened to witness a similar situation on the 29th Jaunary:
At Red Cow a group of people took seats at the bottom, just behind me. They were around 6 of them, and they started immediately to shout, intimidating people around, mostly sitting but sometimes standing, creating a very unpleasant atmosphere all around to the other luas customers. This situation lasted for several stops, until they apparently arrived to destination, at Cheevestown stop, 4:55 pm,
It is at that point that the aggression towards a guy waiting at the narrow door to open started. It started inside the Luas and it finished outside. Many people added to the group, one or two passengers stepped out to help the customer that received the aggression, who was soon bleeding just outside Luas. A lady kept the door blocked open, to consent the ones that were helping to come back, one of them stepped back into luas bleeding too.
I reported it immediately to Luas by email, but nobody ever came back to me despite they promise to respond to all emails within a week. I asked for an update and silence again...