My Landlord is trying to keep my Deposit unfairly

Generic Dreadhead

I'm moving out of a property I've rented for 7 years.
About 2 years ago we rescued 2 cats.
I said it to the landlord and he said we weren't meant to have pets but as long as they don't damage the house he's ok with them.
Yesterday I met him to discuss the deposit and let him have a walk through the property.
We agreed on a couple of small things that were deductions/replacements amounting to about 15% of the deposit.

The next day he text me to say he'd had an allergic reaction to the cats (he's a dog owner) and as a result we'd have to get the place cleaned.
Thing is he wants to get the entirety of the whole property industrially cleaned as apparently the "dander" that cats give off can be in surfaces for 6months and cannot be cleaned out by vacuuming etc.

So low and behold now he's trying to keep the whole deposit.
I said we'd vacuum and clean and shampoo the place but now he's saying even the blinds etc have to be chemically cleaned.

Can someone please advise me if he's allowed do this.
It's a lot of money and it seems far to convent given there was no damage and he calls for the rent monthly to the house and has not had a reaction before.

I understand we have to give the property back in the condition that we received it in, but does that include having the place blitzed so it's hypoallergenic?

I don't know what to do

davo10

Cormac... wrote: »

I'm moving out of a property I've rented for 7 years.
About 2 years ago we rescued 2 cats.
I said it to the landlord and he said we weren't meant to have pets but as long as they don't damage the house he's ok with them.
Yesterday I met him to discuss the deposit and let him have a walk through the property.
We agreed on a couple of small things that were deductions/replacements amounting to about 15% of the deposit.

The next day he text me to say he'd had an allergic reaction to the cats (he's a dog owner) and as a result we'd have to get the place cleaned.
Thing is he wants to get the entirety of the whole property industrially cleaned as apparently the "dander" that cats give off can be in surfaces for 6months and cannot be cleaned out by vacuuming etc.

So low and behold now he's trying to keep the whole deposit.
I said we'd vacuum and clean and shampoo the place but now he's saying even the blinds etc have to be chemically cleaned.

Can someone please advise me if he's allowed do this.
It's a lot of money and it seems far to convent given there was no damage and he calls for the rent monthly to the house and has not had a reaction before.

I understand we have to give the property back in the condition that we received it in, but does that include having the place blitzed so it's hypoallergenic?

I don't know what to do

I think it is very reasonable to have the property industrially cleaned. My son is asthmatic and allergic to cat hair, if I rented your property it would be a major issue.

But, as far as I'm aware, the LL has to show you evidence of the cleaning in the form of a receipt.

Generic Dreadhead

Can he legally do that though?

hfallada

Cormac... wrote: »

Can he legally do that though?

He can charge for cleaning as long as he has a receipt and can prove it was necessary. If a new tenant is allergic to cats, I think its reasonable to assume that it was necessary.

macyard

Cormac... wrote: »

I'm moving out of a property I've rented for 7 years.
About 2 years ago we rescued 2 cats.
I said it to the landlord and he said we weren't meant to have pets but as long as they don't damage the house he's ok with them.
Yesterday I met him to discuss the deposit and let him have a walk through the property.
We agreed on a couple of small things that were deductions/replacements amounting to about 15% of the deposit.

The next day he text me to say he'd had an allergic reaction to the cats (he's a dog owner) and as a result we'd have to get the place cleaned.
Thing is he wants to get the entirety of the whole property industrially cleaned as apparently the "dander" that cats give off can be in surfaces for 6months and cannot be cleaned out by vacuuming etc.

So low and behold now he's trying to keep the whole deposit.
I said we'd vacuum and clean and shampoo the place but now he's saying even the blinds etc have to be chemically cleaned.

Can someone please advise me if he's allowed do this.
It's a lot of money and it seems far to convent given there was no damage and he calls for the rent monthly to the house and has not had a reaction before.

I understand we have to give the property back in the condition that we received it in, but does that include having the place blitzed so it's hypoallergenic?

I don't know what to do

Deep clean is needed as a general clean won't get it all if you are allergic, it's fair as you bought in the cats first without telling him, telling him all later the fact does not reduce the need for the deep clean, get a receipt to make sure it is actually done though

foggy_lad

The LL agreed to the cats being there so if really responsible for at least half of the cost of the industrial type cleaning he claims to now be getting done.

If he keeps part of the deposit he must provide receipts from private companies for all cleaning and work carried out.

macyard

foggy_lad wrote: »

The LL agreed to the cats being there so if really responsible for at least half of the cost of the industrial type cleaning he claims to now be getting done.

If he keeps part of the deposit he must provide receipts from private companies for all cleaning and work carried out.

Agreed after the fact, they did not ask before bring them in, op should born the full cost as he said he would cover the costs from them the deep clean is a cost from the cats

foggy_lad

macyard wrote: »

Agreed after the fact, they did not ask before bring them in, op should born the full cost as he said he would cover the costs from them the deep clean is a cost from the cats

Landlord agreed and that is all that counts!

Todd Toddington III

If the lease says no pets then legally he can keep your deposit despite what may have been said at a later date. remember the lease is a contract and by bringing animals into the home you've essentially broken one of the terms of lease agreement. sucks but not much you can do

foggy_lad

Todd Toddington III wrote: »

If the lease says no pets then legally he can keep your deposit despite what may have been said at a later date. remember the lease is a contract and by bringing animals into the home you've essentially broken one of the terms of lease agreement. sucks but not much you can do

By agreeing to the cats the LL verbally changed the lease agreement.

macyard

foggy_lad wrote: »

Landlord agreed and that is all that counts!

If they didn't cause damage to the next rental, he needs to clean the damage from the cats fur.

Take the loss of the deposit as price to have 2 loving years with your cats, it's not a high price

firestarter51

op your going to lose your deposit
no way out of it as far as i know

firestarter51

foggy_lad wrote: »

By agreeing to the cats the LL verbally changed the lease agreement.

cant prove that though

Sleeper12

I think it should be cleaned as he says but if you have been there 7 years I think he should get it cleaned anyway. I strongly recommend that you get in touch with the prtb. They will give you free advice on this. Also their word is final.

Todd Toddington III

ops word vs the LL re the verbal agreement, lease has been signed by both parties...not a leg to stand on

Grandpa Hassan

I would be surprised if a PTRB judgment was based on any more than the fact that the lease prohibits pets and the OP was keeping cats. Anything other than that is one word against the other, and with no email etc, that isn't going to fly.

So I don't see how the OP can avoid the cleaning charge. But local cleaning firms should be contacted to check that the LL is charging a fair rate.

Personally I think all vacating tenants should pay for a professional clean, like here in the UK.

Arbiter of Good Taste

Cormac... wrote: »

I'm moving out of a property I've rented for 7 years.
About 2 years ago we rescued 2 cats.
I said it to the landlord and he said we weren't meant to have pets but as long as they don't damage the house he's ok with them.
Yesterday I met him to discuss the deposit and let him have a walk through the property.
We agreed on a couple of small things that were deductions/replacements amounting to about 15% of the deposit.

The next day he text me to say he'd had an allergic reaction to the cats (he's a dog owner) and as a result we'd have to get the place cleaned.
Thing is he wants to get the entirety of the whole property industrially cleaned as apparently the "dander" that cats give off can be in surfaces for 6months and cannot be cleaned out by vacuuming etc.

So low and behold now he's trying to keep the whole deposit.
I said we'd vacuum and clean and shampoo the place but now he's saying even the blinds etc have to be chemically cleaned.

Can someone please advise me if he's allowed do this.
It's a lot of money and it seems far to convent given there was no damage and he calls for the rent monthly to the house and has not had a reaction before.

I understand we have to give the property back in the condition that we received it in, but does that include having the place blitzed so it's hypoallergenic?

I don't know what to do

A few points

What matter is it to this if the LL is a dog owner? Someone can be allergic to cats without being allergic to dogs. Nevertheless, even if it that wasn't the case, what difference does it make that he has a dog in his private residence? The issue is with your cats in a rental property.

What's with the quotes around the word dander? Are you suggesting he's making something up? Dander is a real thing and exacerbates some peoples' allergies. Did you not research this before adopting the cats?

There is a difference between a normal clean/steam clean, and a proper industrial cleaning. If there are were animals in the property for two years, then I would say a proper cleaning is needed.

I don't know what PRTB can do. Technically you broke the lease. Unless the LL refuses to provide a receipt, what do you expect?

maggiepip

So many landlords seem to try to use any excuse to not give back a deposit, after 7 years, once youve left the place clean, if he wants to deep clean he should pay for it. Reasonable wear and tear is up to the landlord. I think hes being unfair OP and I would contact the PRTB. He said you could have the cats, he didn't say you would have to lose your deposit. He should have told you when he agreed to allow the cats stay that he would be keeping your deposit towards deep cleaning costs, then that would have given you the time to prepare (by saving or whatever) for this loss of money. You could argue a future tenant "may be" allergic to lots of things, doesnt give the right to demand the the present tenant pays. My husband by the way is a landlord and he feels this is unfair treatment.

macyard

maggiepip wrote: »

So many landlords seem to try to use any excuse to not give back a deposit, after 7 years, once youve left the place clean, if he wants to deep clean he should pay for it. Reasonable wear and tear is up to the landlord. I think hes being unfair OP and I would contact the PRTB. He said you could have the cats, he didn't say you would have to lose your deposit. He should have told you when he agreed to allow the cats stay that he would be keeping your deposit towards deep cleaning costs, then that would have given you the time to prepare (by saving or whatever) for this loss of money. You could argue a future tenant "may be" allergic to lots of things, doesnt give the right to demand the the present tenant pays. My husband by the way is a landlord and he feels this is unfair treatment.

Op need to clean the house to the standard he rented it, to do that he need a deep clean he has to pay for that deep clean.

The only way to return the place to original is with the deep clean due to the cats a hoover and wash cloth won't do.

maggiepip

macyard wrote: »

Op need to clean the house to the standard he rented it, to do that he need a deep clean he has to pay for that deep clean.

The only way to return the place to original is with the deep clean due to the cats a hoover and wash cloth won't do.

And as I said in my post he should have told them this at the time, when he gave permission for the cats to stay, that would have been fair treatment and given the OP time to get the money together. Landing it on them now by suddenly deciding he wont return deposit is very unfair. It sounds like the place is being left in good condition (small 15%loss of deposit) and the OP is offering to shampoo the place down. I do not consider the landlord is being fair at all.

macyard

maggiepip wrote: »

And as I said in my post he should have told them this at the time, when he gave permission for the cats to stay, that would have been fair treatment and given the OP time to get the money together. Landing it on them now by suddenly deciding he wont return deposit is very unfair. It sounds like the place is being left in good condition (small 15%loss of deposit) and the OP is offering to shampoo the place down. I do not consider the landlord is being fair at all.

He did he said as long as there was no damage(this was after the op brought them in without asking so it was too late anyway), the fur is damage and needs to be removed to rent it if people have allergies

maggiepip

macyard wrote: »

He did he said as long as there was no damage(this was after the op brought them in without asking so it was too late anyway), the fur is damage and needs to be removed to rent it if people have allergies

Fur is not damage.

davo10

maggiepip wrote: »

Fur is not damage.

Is dirt?

macyard

maggiepip wrote: »

Fur is not damage.

Yes it is, is stops the LL re renting the place till it's fixed, there was no fur when he rented the place he needs to return it to that state

Eric Cartman

Ive been in houses before where people have cats, and the smell of cat is in everything. People who live there can't smell it as they're used to it. I know well even in my house I can't smell the smoke anymore , even though everyone else who comes in knows theres smokers there by the smell.

Your landlord getting it industrially cleaned (blinds and all) is very reasonable, ask for a receipt and hope its less than whats left of the deposit.

Todd Toddington III

to an asthmatic or someone allergic to animal hair, fur is pretty damaging.

The_Morrigan

Your landlord is not being unfair, returning a property to the state that it was in before you arrived is standard. The fact that you brought cats into the equation has just heightened the need for a deep/industrial clean rather than a good scrubbing. Pet hair is above the normal wear and tear and is the reason why so many renters with pets and landlords who accept them seek an additional pet deposit.

Sleeper12

Does leaving the place to the standard of when you moved in getting sofa, mattresses, carpets etc industrially cleaned to remove the dust mites that have built up over 7 years? phone Prtb in the morning and see what they say.

smcgiff

OP got permission for the pets and must now pay for the cleaning. It's fair the LL is not left with a property that could cause allergies.

punisher5112

7 years though people.

All the places I have rented were filthy going into them and spotless when left.

Some people live in absolute filth.

Ask threshold for advice and then bring a case to prtb if you believe the deposit loss is unfair.

dissed doc

I have no idea what the legal perspective is, but it seems reasonable to have a full professional cleaning done after an animal has been living in a dwelling and it is being prepared for new tenants. You would hardly want to rent a place with cat hairs or skin, etc., .

As to him saying it was okay, it is indeed, but nothing changes on the contract. Drugs are also not allowed probably, but you can still do drugs if you like and simply have to deal with the consequences.

So, in this scenario, as a member of the court of internet judgement, I side with the landlord . Only because a professional clean is sort of reasonable if there were pets.

dissed doc

foggy_lad wrote: »

Landlord agreed and that is all that counts!

Yeah he agreed, but the tenant remains responsible. Someone might get permission to smoke in a property as well, it doesn't mean the landlord is responsible for the damage to paint, etc.,. Responsibility for the action is still 100% with the person doing the action, IMO.

firestarter51

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Ive been in houses before where people have cats, and the smell of cat is in everything. People who live there can't smell it as they're used to it. I know well even in my house I can't smell the smoke anymore , even though everyone else who comes in knows theres smokers there by the smell.

Your landlord getting it industrially cleaned (blinds and all) is very reasonable, ask for a receipt and hope its less than whats left of the deposit.

i agree i had indoor cats for years, never noticed the smell
went a year without a cat, called to someone that had a cat, the smell was very strong.
lease said no pets, need to pay for a deep clean simples

firestarter51

punisher5112 wrote: »

7 years though people.

All the places I have rented were filthy going into them and spotless when left.

Some people live in absolute filth.

Ask threshold for advice and then bring a case to prtb if you believe the deposit loss is unfair.

more fool you for renting a filthy place, madness imo

foggy_lad

dissed doc wrote: »

Yeah he agreed, but the tenant remains responsible. Someone might get permission to smoke in a property as well, it doesn't mean the landlord is responsible for the damage to paint, etc.,. Responsibility for the action is still 100% with the person doing the action, IMO.

If a LL gives permission to tenants to smoke in a kitchen or living room they can not come back after 7 years whinging that the walls are yellow and the whole house smells of smoke and the tenant will have to pay for painting/cleaning.

In this case the LL knew the risks as he has dogs himself so should know the damage animals can do as regards smells and hair/fur etc yet gave permission, What that means is that any hair/fur/smell etc becomes "normal wear and tear".

The place would be due a deep cleaning and repaint even if it hasn't been done in 7 years and this whole thing stinks of the LL trying to get the tenants to cover for what is normal wear and tear!

Generic Dreadhead

I should clarify that I am paid up to date on my rent.

I only mentioned he has dogs as he's trying to claim the Dander caused the allergic reaction, and his dogs are not a hypoallegic breed.
I'm not disputing cleaning the place to a standard of "no mess, dirt, fur etc" but he's digging out all sort of web documents which suit his stance.
Like "the dander will stay there for 6 months and cannot be gotten rid of by conventional cleaning means" etc etc.

I'm not arguing is that is/isn't the case but it's all very suitable for him given this came up the day after we discussed deposit deductions.

Regarding the other cleaning stuff, I've painted the entire house myself, I only mention this so noone gets the impression I haven't given a tuppence f**k about the house.

So should I say I refuse to accept that as reasonable as he accepted we had cats (didn't evict us etc)?
How am I supposed to know if the next tenants are allergic to cat dander (Not fur, I'll get rid of all that)?

Also, fwiw there's Bats in the eaves of the ceiling/roof and has been for a long while now. So this is all very coincedental

macyard

foggy_lad wrote: »

If a LL gives permission to tenants to smoke in a kitchen or living room they can not come back after 7 years whinging that the walls are yellow and the whole house smells of smoke and the tenant will have to pay for painting/cleaning.

In this case the LL knew the risks as he has dogs himself so should know the damage animals can do as regards smells and hair/fur etc yet gave permission, What that means is that any hair/fur/smell etc becomes "normal wear and tear".

The place would be due a deep cleaning and repaint even if it hasn't been done in 7 years and this whole thing stinks of the LL trying to get the tenants to cover for what is normal wear and tear!

He said only if no damage after the person already did it putting the LL under a barrel. If op asked before doing it he could have said no.

The fur is dirt and damage that op agreed be responsible for after he took in cats without asking first

Generic Dreadhead

macyard wrote: »

putting the LL under a barrel.

Not really no, he could have gotten tenants for this place in a heartbeat. I would not be moving if he was not increasing the rent. It's not like if he gave us a months notice to move out for "breaking the lease" that he would have had a vacant property for ages.... it's a nice, big 4 bedroom house in a student area (we're working professionals)

He accepted as he knew i'd stay living here and i'm pretty reasonable to deal with, have always paid the rent on time and have never cause any issues. He even gave me a written reference saying such

macyard

Cormac... wrote: »

Not really no, he could have gotten tenants for this place in a heartbeat. I would not be moving if he was not increasing the rent. It's not like if he gave us a months notice to move out for "breaking the lease" that he would have had a vacant property for ages.... it's a nice, big 4 bedroom house in a student area (we're working professionals)

He accepted as he knew i'd stay living here and i'm pretty reasonable to deal with, have always paid the rent on time and have never cause any issues. He even gave me a written reference saying such

Right way is to ask before taking them in, you left him in the bind telling him after I suspect you knew this hence why you took them in first, he said as long as you cover the damage he guess it was ok, now he asking you to pay for that damage

maggiepip

Don't give in to him OP as someone else pointed out, what if the next tenant "might" be allergic to bed bugs or dust mites, would that excuse justify his deep clean? Does an industrial deep clean even work 100%, Id look into that too. Hes looking for excuses in my opinion and I think its a rotten way to treat an obviously good tenant whos maintained his property for 7 years.

macyard

maggiepip wrote: »

Don't give in to him OP as someone else pointed out, what if the next tenant "might" be allergic to bed bugs or dust mites, would that excuse justify his deep clean? Does an industrial deep clean even work 100%, Id look into that too. Hes looking for excuses in my opinion and I think its a rotten way to treat an obviously good tenant whos maintained his property for 7 years.

Bed bug are a serious thing and need to be dealt with quickly, on house should be rented with them

maggiepip

macyard wrote: »

Bed bug are a serious thing and need to be dealt with quickly, on house should be rented with them

Ah for heavens sake every bed has bugs, you can't even see them.

Generic Dreadhead

macyard wrote: »

Right way is to ask before taking them in, you left him in the bind telling him after I suspect you knew this hence why you took them in first, he said as long as you cover the damage he guess it was ok, now he asking you to pay for that damage

Well give the 1st cat was rescued from next door in winter from the engine of a car when it was left to die as a kitten (by it's mother, not our neighbours etc) we didn't exactly think to have a big sit around the kitchen table to hammer out a plan. He was grand with the cats being there (we only got the 2nd a year later on the back of him being ok with the 1st, and the 1st being lonely while we were at work).

He could have said "NO CATS - look at the lease here, pack your things or throw the cat out" but he did not.

I really don't see how it's damage.... if you're not allergic to cats this makes no difference.... Maybe I could just say I'd pay it if the next tennant is indeed allergic to cat dander (not fur)? And if they are not, he can move along.

FWIW I also know he's torn between renting again and selling and this would be a lovely oppurtunity to have the place given the once over in the hazmat suits

garhjw

maggiepip wrote: »

Don't give in to him OP as someone else pointed out, what if the next tenant "might" be allergic to bed bugs or dust mites, would that excuse justify his deep clean? Does an industrial deep clean even work 100%, Id look into that too. Hes looking for excuses in my opinion and I think its a rotten way to treat an obviously good tenant whos maintained his property for 7 years.

Nonsense, it's reasonable for the landlord to have the place professionally cleaned after cats being in the place. It would be irresponsible to relet the place without having the place properly cleaned.

macyard

maggiepip wrote: »

Ah for heavens sake every bed has bugs, you can't even see them.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bed_bug

Not sure you realise how dangerous bed bug are if you had them you would want them gone.

They can cause serious health issues so can cat fur to the right people

Generic Dreadhead

macyard wrote: »

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bed_bug

Not sure you realise how dangerous bed bug are if you had them you would want them gone.

They can cause serious health issues so can cat fur to the right people

Why are people still saying "Fur", I could not have been clearer on that. There will be no fur. Dander is not fur. I'm not gonna leave any fur in the property.

He's going to get quotes for cleaning the property from 4 cleaning companies.

gozunda

macyard wrote: »

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bed_bug

Not sure you realise how dangerous bed bug are if you had them you would want them gone.

They can cause serious health issues so can cat fur to the right people

Well tbh so can peanuts but does that mean that the OP must ensure that the house is made free from ALL potential allergens?

Unless the landlord provides a certified allergen free house at a premium then I believe that argument is null.

Lantus

There has been an assumption that the landlord has had such a reaction to these cats without any proof whatsoever. While it 'may' be true it could also be a ploy.

Do you have any friends who are allergic to cats? Get them around for tea. You should know in a very quick amount of time if that is the case. If the lease prohibits pets then your landlord has walked you into breaching it and used your kindness against you. But, get advise from PRTB and threshold

However, he must keep all receipts and show the full cost to you of any cleaning including a breakdown of the costs if he is so keen to take your deposit.

Cats set me off awful bad so if I rented somewhere that was no pets but caused me a reaction I'd go ballistic as basically I'd be disabled and unable to work or function.

Eric Cartman

Lantus wrote: »

There has been an assumption that the landlord has had such a reaction to these cats without any proof whatsoever. While it 'may' be true it could also be a ploy.

Do you have any friends who are allergic to cats? Get them around for tea. You should know in a very quick amount of time if that is the case. If the lease prohibits pets then your landlord has walked you into breaching it and used your kindness against you. But, get advise from PRTB and threshold

However, he must keep all receipts and show the full cost to you of any cleaning including a breakdown of the costs if he is so keen to take your deposit.

Cats set me off awful bad so if I rented somewhere that was no pets but caused me a reaction I'd go ballistic as basically I'd be disabled and unable to work or function.

tbh allergies or not, the smell, the fur , cat litter in carpets . It all needs to be cleaned and the landlord has the option of paying for it to be professionally cleaned or try to half arsed clean it themselves and try air the smell out over a month before letting new tenants in.

If I went to see a house that smelled like cats, I would ask for it to be professionally cleaned, and I'm not allergic to them.

maggiepip

Eric Cartman wrote: »

tbh allergies or not, the smell, the fur , cat litter in carpets . It all needs to be cleaned and the landlord has the option of paying for it to be professionally cleaned or try to half arsed clean it themselves and try air the smell out over a month before letting new tenants in.

If I went to see a house that smelled like cats, I would ask for it to be professionally cleaned, and I'm not allergic to them.

Who said the house smells??

Grandpa Hassan

Pretty straightforward IMO. The OP had had cost cats so needs to get the place deep cleaned. You can't expect the LL to pay extra out of his own pocket to clean up after a tenant who wants pets. If you keep pets you should get the place clean of all traces....and a professional clean is the only way to to this. That's one of the costs of keeping pets. Its not the LLs responsibility to pick up that bill, even if pets are allowed. Let alone if they're not!