Celtic Tiger Cowboy Builders

Kevwoody

Ok folks, I bought a house in 2008 that was built a year earlier. Everything looked grand when we moved in, but slowly but surely the cracks, literally, are beginning to appear.
A few of the problems are,
Cracks all over the plaster outside,
Damp on the inside walls,
Tiles coming off the roof,
Leaky plumbing and heating,
Loose block work in the attic.

I know some stuff will always happen after a while, but we keep the place well maintained. We had a leak under the bath and when we took off the bath surround, it looked like something a 5 year old put together! Bits of timber keeping the pipes tight was causing the leak!

So AH, are your Celtic Tiger gaffs still standing?

Desolation Of Smug

Building Boom 2 - fixing all the shyte that was built during Boom 1.

I was looking over a house built in 2007 for a mate who wanted to buy....jasus, rough. There's a lot of big bills heading a lot of peoples way - one look at any block of apartments or houses done with monocouche plaster will show just how badly it has degraded in a few short years.

The Backwards Man

Kevwoody wrote: »

Ok folks, I bought a house in 2008 that was built a year earlier. Everything looked grand when we moved in, but slowly but surely the cracks, literally, are beginning to appear.
A few of the problems are,
Cracks all over the plaster outside,
Damp on the inside walls,
Tiles coming off the roof,
Leaky plumbing and heating,
Loose block work in the attic.

I know some stuff will always happen after a while, but we keep the place well maintained. We had a leak under the bath and when we took off the bath surround, it looked like something a 5 year old put together! Bits of timber keeping the pipes tight was causing the leak!

So AH, are your Celtic Tiger gaffs still standing?

I'm lucky enough to be from an area where a lot of these 'tradesmen' originated, so had a fair idea who to avoid when building. In general, anyone who was in building for years and wasn't lured by the Dublin gravy train was OK, and anyone who had their name on the side of a van a week after they left school was to be avoided.

Wibbs

Oh man some of the horror stories I've seen with new builds from that time. Snag lists that made War and Peace look like a short story. Leaks and damp were right at the top in the ones I saw/heard of. Cracks and subsidence another. Just generally shoddy rushed work really. It wasn't just builders either, some of the architect work was real head scratching stuff.

Streetwalker

Pal I was in the building trade from 2003-2006. I didn't work on a single house in that time where dangerous practice and corner cutting weren't the norm. Ive seen it all, old cardboard boxes from deliveries stuffed between walls for insulation when none was available, concrete only let cure 2 days before being built on (industry standard is at least 7), fireplaces glued in place, wrong sized timber used in roof construction, the list goes on. I laid tiles by trade and the amount of guys who where just ordinary Joe labours doing tiling was hilarious. Had a Hungarian bloke who came on the site one day never worked a day on a site before was put top work doing roofing. The guy was actually a male nurse not his fault I wouldn't refuse my wages being tripled either the agency just sent him out nobody asked questions and if you did you where told to shut up. I got out in 2006 because I couldn't take it any more.

mad muffin

Indeed. I also worked in the building industry between 2004-08

Specifically making roof trusses. The moto was, we won't be there when they put it up.

Some friends building at the time asked me if I can get them a good price. I told them don't walk, run, run as fast as you can and don't look back. You don't want any of our trusses.

They were supposed to be certified and to get the cert, they would have had to be dry and all the timber and made trusses stored out from the elements.

The company would hide all the wet timber and trusses and the inspector got to see only what they wanted them to see.

In the winter none of the timber and completed trusses stored outside was covered up. The factory was open 24/7 churning out water logged trusses.

I shudder to think the state of the roofs.

Aircraft Freak

One of my mates bought a house in 2006 and it's worthless, riddled with pyrite and really bad workmanship, he doesn't want the house, the bank doesn't want it either so he's not paying the mortgage. All the plaster fell off the front of the house too.

Bit of a weird situation he's in, when the bank doesn't actually want the house back.

I also saw some really crappy houses other friends bought during that time, being able to hear your neighbors conversations next door very clearly when they are just talking normally is not something I would like to live with over the life of the mortgage.

Streetwalker

Funny enough some of the best built houses from the celtic tiger era are council housing units. They had a guy on site nearly every day checking up that every T was crossed and every I was dotted. Their inspectors wouldn't sign off on anything at all unless it had passed their quality controls. That said they couldn't check everything but not much got passed them compared to private developments.

They checked tradesmen qualifications also good luck with that on a private site.

Aircraft Freak

Streetwalker wrote: »

Funny enough some of the best built houses from the celtic tiger era are council housing units. They had a guy on site nearly every day checking up that every T was crossed and every I was dotted. Their inspectors wouldn't sign off on anything at all unless it had passed their quality controls. That said they couldn't check everything but not much got passed them compared to private developments.

I can vouch for this, saw a couple built in that era and they had brick walls separating the rooms, I suppose they want them to last, solid as a rock they were.

The Backwards Man

Streetwalker wrote: »

Funny enough some of the best built houses from the celtic tiger era are council housing units. They had a guy on site nearly every day checking up that every T was crossed and every I was dotted. Their inspectors wouldn't sign off on anything at all unless it had passed their quality controls. That said they couldn't check everything but not much got passed them compared to private developments.

Most of the contractors specialising in council work during the boom didn't let greed get the better of them. They are still going today.

The_Valeyard

I hear they are fixing roofs in Oz now.

mad muffin

Streetwalker wrote: »

Funny enough some of the best built houses from the celtic tiger era are council housing units. They had a guy on site nearly every day checking up that every T was crossed and every I was dotted. Their inspectors wouldn't sign off on anything at all unless it had passed their quality controls. That said they couldn't check everything but not much got passed them compared to private developments.

They checked tradesmen qualifications also good luck with that on a private site.

The only trusses that had timber that was treated was for council houses. The rest of the trusses we made would be luck to be dry.

mikemac1

Streetwalker wrote: »

Funny enough some of the best built houses from the celtic tiger era are council housing units.

+1

There is local authority housing across the road from our estate and it's vastly better built then what we have.

FalconGirl

Mold on the window sills and walls during the winter, low water pressure, Cracks in the walls and the wind comes through the plug sockets just a few problems. All this in a modern apartment built in 2005! And the developer is still one of a few building away. The neighbours have the same problems.

gipi

Aircraft Freak wrote: »

I also saw some really crappy houses other friends bought during that time, being able to hear your neighbors conversations next door very clearly when they are just talking normally is not something I would like to live with over the life of the mortgage.

Nothing new, I'm afraid - I bought a new house back in 1985 and could hear next door stirring their tea.....

suicide_circus

The future earnings of any builder who threw up these celtic tiger timebombs should be earmarked for their repair as well as all current assets seized. But as with so many things in Ireland, there are no consequences for willful ineptitude.

Menas

Does insurance not cover these type issues? Or are these badly built houses uninsurable?

SEPT 23 1989

Slam a door and the walls shake:D

Aircraft Freak

Trigger Happy wrote: »

Does insurance not cover these type issues? Or are these badly built houses uninsurable?

If you bought a pyrite house, it's uninsurable and worthless in extreme cases, my mates house was valued at €0:00

suicide_circus

Aircraft Freak wrote: »

If you bought a pyrite house, it's uninsurable and worthless in extreme cases, my mates house was valued at €0:00

I'll throw him a tenner for it

Aircraft Freak

Aircraft Freak wrote: »

If you bought a pyrite house, it's uninsurable and worthless in extreme cases, my mates house was valued at €0:00

pardon my ignorance, but what will eventually happen to the house? will it, become unlivable, do walls start falling fall down at some point ? Do neighbouring houses get affected, say you were semi detached, if one of your walls crumbled an inch or so, would it affect next doors walls too?

Some houses near where I live have a pyrite problem, always wonder what will happen to them

Desolation Of Smug

Jake1 wrote: »

pardon my ignorance, but what will eventually happen to the house? will it, become unlivable, do walls start falling fall down at some point ? Do neighbouring houses get affected, say you were semi detached, if one of your walls crumbled an inch or so, would it affect next doors walls too?

Some houses near where I live have a pyrite problem, always wonder what will happen to them

A nice chap down the road from me will get around to fixing it, eventually. His boom never ended - he repairs the crap others threw up. I wouldn't be a million miles away from that work either. As rubbish as the domestic buildings were, the commercial stuff wasn't much better, or even worse. The pigeons are coming home to roost at the moment. You've a Leaky roof? How unusual.

We stuck to doing what we were doing before the boom, during the boom and now after the boom and kept our standards the same throughout. It is only now people are starting to appreciate that and the trust earned is paying dividends.

Remmy

mad muffin wrote: »

Indeed. I also worked in the building industry between 2004-08

Specifically making roof trusses. The moto was, we won't be there when they put it up.

Some friends building at the time asked me if I can get them a good price. I told them don't walk, run, run as fast as you can and don't look back. You don't want any of our trusses.

They were supposed to be certified and to get the cert, they would have had to be dry and all the timber and made trusses stored out from the elements.

The company would hide all the wet timber and trusses and the inspector got to see only what they wanted them to see.

In the winter none of the timber and completed trusses stored outside was covered up. The factory was open 24/7 churning out water logged trusses.

I shudder to think the state of the roofs.

Feck that's some real mafia style shenanigans.

mad muffin

Remmy wrote: »

Feck that's some real mafia style shenanigans.

Oh yeah. I'm sure if I mentioned the names of the companies involved and you were in the building trade at the time, you wouldn't be surprised.

Going Strong

Desolation Of Smug wrote: »

A nice chap down the road from me will get around to fixing it, eventually. His boom never ended - he repairs the crap others threw up. I wouldn't be a million miles away from that work either. As rubbish as the domestic buildings were, the commercial stuff wasn't much better, or even worse. The pigeons are coming home to roost at the moment. You've a Leaky roof? How unusual.

We stuck to doing what we were doing before the boom, during the boom and now after the boom and kept our standards the same throughout. It is only now people are starting to appreciate that and the trust earned is paying dividends.

My brother is in the same boat as you. He's feigned work overload whenever he hears of a job coming up on such and such a building. "Half a dozen contractors were on that and nobody talked to one another so the the building is a complete bodge and everyone involved have all gone bust. Not touching it as my name will be the last one on there and all future liabilities will be mine."

Sir Osis of Liver.

Did a few electrical nixers on some of the timberframe houses.

Bloody nightmare trying to get a solid fixing on any internal or external walls.

Best avoided.

Aircraft Freak

Jake1 wrote: »

pardon my ignorance, but what will eventually happen to the house? will it, become unlivable, do walls start falling fall down at some point ? Do neighbouring houses get affected, say you were semi detached, if one of your walls crumbled an inch or so, would it affect next doors walls too?

Some houses near where I live have a pyrite problem, always wonder what will happen to them

I'd imagine unless they are fixed they will succumb to the weather. My mates whole estate is affected, 2 of the residents got their houses fixed through insurance at the very start of the pyrite problem, then when it became widespread the insurance wouldn't cover the rest of the houses. The 10 year home bond "garauntee" wasn't worth the paper it was printed on.

He's been quoted >80k for repairs, something he can't afford.

Ghost Buster

My sister looked at a house in Galway a few years back and on a whim decided to plug in her phone to charge whilst viewing the house. The charger wouldnt go into the socket. On further investigation she discovered that most of the plug sockets were glued to the walls with no actual electric behind them!:eek:

crockholm

The question is, what do we do to make sure the same mistakes aren't made should Another boom or mini-boom come around again?

I would imagine that the cycle will just repeat itself,One of the biggest builders still building in Ireland recently came out saying that apprenticeships should be 9 months long,and the old ANCO methods were the best.

You go to a doctor because of a cough or a cut,ache or something-you get blinded by certificates and such.You build a house and spend 20+ years paying off and you don't check these guys for certs?

Time for a fresh start.

Letree

There was no golden era of house building in Ireland. Cracks in houses are extremely common. Most are simply as a result of plaster drying and some natural settlement in the building. Cracks that get worse and grow may be something to have investigated but having a few hairline cracks is common. Most are filled and painted over as any painter will tell you, they do it day and daily. Go look at the walls in your parents house or ask them and I'm sure they will have some cracks.

Yes there were some Cowboys during the boom but there were also Cowboys years ago and there will be more in the future no doubt.

Jawgap

All that self-regulation for Building Reg approval is going to bite big time in the next 5 years or so........

Aircraft Freak

Ghost Buster wrote: »

My sister looked at a house in Galway a few years back and on a whim decided to plug in her phone to charge whilst viewing the house. The charger wouldnt go into the socket. On further investigation she discovered that most of the plug sockets were glued to the walls with no actual electric behind them!:eek:

That sounds like an urban legand, I have heard that one before.

Outkast_IRE

Honestly the only solution i see is a system where you have a local authority or national body that comes at various phases of house builds and signs off each phase before the next can begin. I think the UK & some states in the US have this system.

Aircraft Freak

Jawgap wrote: »

All that self-regulation for Building Reg approval is going to bite big time in the next 5 years or so........

That's something the Brits have done recently, they have de-regulated the building industry and started affordable housing schemes, Cameron was eyeballing Bertie's performance and copying it so it seems.

arayess

only yesterday I move a pipe in the attic that wasn't attached to the fan in the shower .
the fan was just sucking water vapour into the insulation

only found it by chance a month ago while i was in far end of the attic.
house built 15 years , mentioned it to my neighbors and each and everyone of them found the same problem.

cnuts.

Aircraft Freak

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

Honestly the only solution i see is a system where you have a local authority or national body that comes at various phases of house builds and signs off each phase before the next can begin. I think the UK & some states in the US have this system.

70's Ireland was like that.

Baxtardo

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

Honestly the only solution i see is a system where you have a local authority or national body that comes at various phases of house builds and signs off each phase before the next can begin. I think the UK & some states in the US have this system.

That would put liability on the council / local authority. Instead, recent regs (SI9) have further removed government bodies from any sort of involvement or liability in building construction. This was introduced in the wake of the Priory Hall mess. Architects / quants / engineers / assigned certifiers now have the onus of ensuring adherence of construction to building standards, contractors & builders are still unregulated. Certifiers open to crazy liability for work they do not undertake and cannot fully inspect.

Aircraft Freak

arayess wrote: »

only yesterday I move a pipe in the attic that wasn't attached to the fan in the shower .
the fan was just sucking water vapour into the insulation

only found it by chance a month ago while i was in far end of the attic.
house built 15 years , mentioned it to my neighbors and each and everyone of them found the same problem.

cnuts.

That's a common one, same with mine, 2001 build. Thank god I can't hear my neighbours talking and for the most part, the house is solid, never had any settling cracks, I think most settling cracks are a result of building on foundations that haven't cured long enough.

I watched the builders build our house, the foundations were down for a week in the summer before they started building.

They put the finishing plaster on my friends house in January when it was frosty, he thinks that's why when summer came and there was a bit of expansion, it cracked and fell off.

Senna

Someone was telling me, no house in Ireland should have smooth plaster, pebble dash or modern equivalent is much better for our weather. Can't remember that last house I seen built without smooth plaster.

Ghost Buster

Aircraft Freak wrote: »

That sounds like an urban legand, I have heard that one before.

I saw it myself cos they bought the house after getting this rectified!" Perhaps it was a legend but the 'Developer' who built this house made it a reality!

Aircraft Freak

Senna wrote: »

Someone was telling me, no house in Ireland should have smooth plaster, pebble dash or modern equivalent is much better for our weather. Can't remember that last house I seen built without smooth plaster.

There's an estate across the road from me with smooth plaster, no dashing built in 2005, prices started at €440,000 for a 960 square foot 3 bed semi. €520,000 for the 4 bed semi, guess what? The builder went bust, the estate has been sold to a vulture enterprise from the states, don't know what the craic is with the mortgages, some got sub-prime and others went to EBS.

Aircraft Freak

Ghost Buster wrote: »

I saw it myself cos they bought the house after getting this rectified!" Perhaps it was a legend but the 'Developer' who built this house made it a reality!

Holy fcuk!!

Letree

Some of the developers building estates back then put up some shoddy houses. People who did self build themselves and only hired people they knew and trusted would have ended up with decent houses. But even in terms of the estates we have to remember this is ireland, where it rains constantly and plaster gets wet, it dries, gets wet and dries, is subject to frost, sunshine etc. these forces have an effect over the years.

foxy farmer

Lad on the labour saving and general gunthering thread had a leak and when he pulled of the side off the bath there was a sod of turf keeping up the waste pipes. That and what looked like a can of expanding foam explosion under the bath.
I've seen some quarry things myself.
Electric sockets with 2 feet of cable shoved up the wall but not connected to anything.
Tiles put on floors without sealing the floors. 6 years later the whole floor pops up.
Houses built on ground that was filled in the previous 5 years.
Now the regulations come in when the damage is done.
Mandatory inspections would have stopped a lot of the scutting.

FalconGirl

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

Honestly the only solution i see is a system where you have a local authority or national body that comes at various phases of house builds and signs off each phase before the next can begin. I think the UK & some states in the US have this system.

Ah yeah, but the profits will get smaller if they have to do things right. Because of that it will never happen. That is the crux of the issue. Governments, regulators, developers all with vested interests. Property is a huge money-spinner for many in Ireland when it shouldn't be. Just look at the craziness of the housing situation at the moment. All engineered no doubt by few.

Streetwalker

Streetwalker wrote: »

Funny enough some of the best built houses from the celtic tiger era are council housing units. They had a guy on site nearly every day checking up that every T was crossed and every I was dotted. Their inspectors wouldn't sign off on anything at all unless it had passed their quality controls. That said they couldn't check everything but not much got passed them compared to private developments.

They checked tradesmen qualifications also good luck with that on a private site.

Councils generally had a responsibility to the future tenants and so were liable should anything happen due to shoddy construction and also future maintenance bills are much smaller if the job is done properly the first time.

It was in the councils best interests to get the job right first time, unlike the CT "developers" who just grabbed the money and ran.

sozbox

FalconGirl wrote: »

Mold on the window sills and walls during the winter, low water pressure, Cracks in the walls and the wind comes through the plug sockets just a few problems. All this in a modern apartment built in 2005! And the developer is still one of a few building away. The neighbours have the same problems.

Cork development by any chance?

FalconGirl

sozbox wrote: »

Cork development by any chance?

No Dublin 15, Ashtown.

sozbox

FalconGirl wrote: »

No Dublin 15, Ashtown.

You described my apartment perfectly, rented thank fook!

Jhcx

Ive notice any new houses going up seem to be much slower and workers are actually staying right into the dark working. here on sundays, rain and wind. Is there actually a change in builders since they cowboys are gone?

Kevwoody

sozbox wrote: »

You described my apartment perfectly, rented thank fook!

I'd say she could be describing anywhere in the country going by some of the stories here