Ai Bulls for 2015 breeding season

mahoney_j

Anyone have Bulls picked for Ai for comming season??,gave last few nights messing around with herd plus matching cows and heifers to Bulls to improve individual traits.it a serious help.anyway came up with the following Bulls
Lwr
Yad
Zfg
Gxc
Pcz
Rrs
Npy
Omg
Average ebi 318
Milk 122
Fert 153
Milk kg 281
Fat kg 21.2
P kg 18.9
40 kg combined solids

Ruxin

Some very good bulls on the list havent even thought about breeding yet only started calving this evening let us get that out of the way first.

mahoney_j

Ruxin wrote: »

Some very good bulls on the list havent even thought about breeding yet only started calving this evening let us get that out of the way first.

It's a job out of the way before calving starts,always do It in January when u have time to research Bulls and match them to cows to improve traits.also some Bulls like lwr may be booked out or very scarce if u leave it till narch or april .

dar31

ordered the last of them earlier this week
lwr
npy
yad
pcz
cff
fyk

bgj
511007
111036
ljs
wfp

Timmaay

MJ what main individual trails do you use when matching up straws to a cow?, do you start on one and work down? I generally just have 4 or 5 straws picked out, in previous years I was quite ad hoc about the distribution of them across cows, I need to more careful this year however, ended up with one or two extremely leggy/screwy HO heifer calves last year!

whelan2

anyone going to use any sexed straws?

Deepsouthwest

That Lwr looks a great bull. Any idea on his availability?

Timmaay

whelan2 wrote: »

anyone going to use any sexed straws?

Got about 10 straws left over from last year. I've 6 nice healthy heifer calves in the shed at the second and no bulls so far, so reaping the rewards of using it, however there are certainly afew young cows who have pushed out until mid March this year, and I really got to question would they have stayed feb calving if I hadn't used sexed on them. In any case I should have a good number of heifers this year as a result of the sexed, and at the second the cull rate is looking low enough (fairly young herd now), so for next year I think I'd get alot more benefit from just waiting until May 1st to start serving, and go for alot more compact calving instead.

frazzledhome

Sexed semen, no place for it here. Conception rate too compromised. I feel that front loading heifers will give you more early heifers than any other system.

If sexed semen is pushing conception rates down your calving dates will slip and on the whole you become more inefficient.

Sexed is being pushed by one company in particular and is being used on the wrong cow as some kind of silver bullet. Pick hi fert bulls and use on the tops of your herd. A lot more to be gained working with top of herd than fighting with bottom third

Milked out

Deepsouthwest wrote: »

That Lwr looks a great bull. Any idea on his availability?

He's in progressive catalogue as a main bull but only in munster one as one of the bulls at the back, they're expecting strong demand so if you get onto your local rep early they should get him for you.

Milked out

frazzledhome wrote: »

Sexed semen, no place for it here. Conception rate too compromised. I feel that front loading heifers will give you more early heifers than any other system.

If sexed semen is pushing conception rates down your calving dates will slip and on the whole you become more inefficient.

Sexed is being pushed by one company in particular and is being used on the wrong cow as some kind of silver bullet. Pick hi fert bulls and use on the tops of your herd. A lot more to be gained working with top of herd than fighting with bottom third

+1, also claimed improvements in the technology aren't holding up imo. If you bull all heifers even once to dairy ai along with cows you should get enough replacements

Milked out

Will look thru the various companies this week but have gotten so far
HZB
Lwr
PHC
PCZ
GXC
S2249

Will order a few more of above and see what else is out there.

mahoney_j

frazzledhome wrote: »

Sexed semen, no place for it here. Conception rate too compromised. I feel that front loading heifers will give you more early heifers than any other system.

If sexed semen is pushing conception rates down your calving dates will slip and on the whole you become more inefficient.

Sexed is being pushed by one company in particular and is being used on the wrong cow as some kind of silver bullet. Pick hi fert bulls and use on the tops of your herd. A lot more to be gained working with top of herd than fighting with bottom third

+1 wouldnt touch sexed seven yet as its too unreliable ,20/50% conception rates.too much of a risk that calving date slips and its hard enough control that.as frazzld rightly points out front load heifers and use enough Ai fr or those jex yolks!!!! And you'll get enough replacements .

mahoney_j

Timmaay wrote: »

MJ what main individual trails do you use when matching up straws to a cow?, do you start on one and work down? I generally just have 4 or 5 straws picked out, in previous years I was quite ad hoc about the distribution of them across cows, I need to more careful this year however, ended up with one or two extremely leggy/screwy HO heifer calves last year!

I just look at individual cows traits for milk fertility and solids and pick a bull that will improve what she already has.theres a serious selection of top quality Bulls out there now,genomics for a large instance has been a revelation .im using nearly all genomic Bulls for last few years and for most part getting on quite well

stanflt

Milked out wrote: »

Will look thru the various companies this week but have gotten so far
HZB
Lwr
PHC
PCZ
GXC
S2249

Will order a few more of above and see what else is out there.

Raphael from pg????

stanflt

Sexed semen had added 20 days to ci here so far this year- only used it for first service in the spring

Spring calvers are too important to let slip

On the other side I've 27 heifers from 40 calvings so far

Timmaay

frazzledhome wrote: »

Sexed semen, no place for it here. Conception rate too compromised. I feel that front loading heifers will give you more early heifers than any other system.

If sexed semen is pushing conception rates down your calving dates will slip and on the whole you become more inefficient.

Sexed is being pushed by one company in particular and is being used on the wrong cow as some kind of silver bullet. Pick hi fert bulls and use on the tops of your herd. A lot more to be gained working with top of herd than fighting with bottom third

Agreed in general with all your points, but for me, it has helped to front load heifer calves, and let me be more selective and breed from my better cows who tend to stay early feb calvers every year. My aim last year was started AI about 10days early and be very selective on what to use sexed on, which has worked very well so far in giving me some very high EBI heifers from my best most fertile cows. My main flaw was I got alittle greedy and used it on some cows I shouldn't have, who either didn't have a strong enough heat, or were only an average EBI etc. So in summary I think sexed is certainly useful in some situations where you got an already very good very fertile cow who comes in heat for at least the 2nd time in mid April, and you are happy to start calving that slight bit earlier, for someone like me in wintermilk that isn't the end of the world.

stanflt wrote: »

Sexed semen had added 20 days to ci here so far this year- only used it for first service in the spring

Spring calvers are too important to let slip

On the other side I've 27 heifers from 40 calvings so far

I havn't worked out what if anything used sexed has added to the CI, but I'd be surprised if its more than afew days, mostly because I started serving earlier, the cows who held to the sexed reduced the average CI, and the ones who didn't probably pushed it out by the same, those ones who did push out I've just milked on the extra few weeks, the key thing would be pulling them back to be early feb calvers next year.

So all in all I've zero regrets for trying sexed, the only real downside for me this year was the extra labour in calving alittle earlier, moving forward I wouldn't have any issues using it again on say 10 of my best cows who are early spring calvings and always hold to the 1st serve, but front loading with high ebi/fertile heifers is still the main goal here to get the bulk of my replacements from.

jaymla627

whelan2 wrote: »

anyone going to use any sexed straws?

Have 100 sexed in the flask ready to go, get on well with it last year so going with it on all maidens,1 st calvers and selected cows.....trying to build numbers here so it's a no brainer....

Greengrass1

Not going yo bother with sexed here.
Have loads of heifers coming on and well be able to hit the 130 very easy by 17 with what we have.
Don't want to take one bug massive jump in numbers as were not set up right yet.
Might sit at 100 for a yr or two and do a bit of a clean up in the heard

Timmaay

jaymla627 wrote: »

Have 100 sexed in the flask ready to go, get on well with it last year so going with it on all maidens,1 st calvers and selected cows.....trying to build numbers here so it's a no brainer....

Given how cheap incalf heifers are now would it not make sense just to buy in and get the boost in milk now? As I said in my previous post I'm all up for using sexed on my few best cows (who I'd value a replacement heifer at 500 quid from), but using it across the board will drove up the cost of your replacement heifers, both direct cost of rearing them and indirectly if your CI suffers as a result of using them.

Coonagh

I'm with frazzledhome here on the sexed semen 6 wk calving rate is absolutely sacred here and I am not willing to compromise it. The other thing that occurred to me is if your 6 wk calving rate is where it should be why do you need to use them

jaymla627

Timmaay wrote: »

Given how cheap incalf heifers are now would it not make sense just to buy in and get the boost in milk now? As I said in my previous post I'm all up for using sexed on my few best cows (who I'd value a replacement heifer at 500 quid from), but using it across the board will drove up the cost of your replacement heifers, both direct cost of rearing them and indirectly if your CI suffers as a result of using them.

Will never buy in another mans stock here again am operating a fully closed herd here save stock Bulls that are sourced from the one man and tested etc before entering the herd, bought in all dairy stock here back in 2013 managed to bring in ibr, mortellaro, crypto, and rota virus and another virus that despite spending 1,000 euro testing cows still haven't discovered what it its.....will only do 3 weeks of sexed at the start of the season and serve 10 days earlier then usual, you really can't put a value and breeding your own quality replacements I see sexed as a investment, especially when your getting so many heifer calves of the best genetics in your herd

Timmaay

Coonagh wrote: »

I'm with frazzledhome here on the sexed semen 6 wk calving rate is absolutely sacred here and I am not willing to compromise it. The other thing that occurred to me is if your 6 wk calving rate is where it should be why do you need to use them

Coming from basically an AYR herd of fairly milky HOs here, a high 6wk calving rate is certainly the aim moving forward but it won't happen overnight. Late spring born replacements are an utter disaster, I eliminated all of them this year, and sexed allowed me to keep up the replacement rate. Utterly not saying sexed was my silver bullet, but it's a tool that is in part helping to achieve a decent number of early spring born replacements who in 2yrs time will let me front load calving better.

Coonagh

Timmaay wrote: »

Coming from basically an AYR herd of fairly milky HOs here, a high 6wk calving rate is certainly the aim moving forward but it won't happen overnight. Late spring born replacements are an utter disaster, I eliminated all of them this year, and sexed allowed me to keep up the replacement rate. Utterly not saying sexed was my silver bullet, but it's a tool that is in part helping to achieve a decent number of early spring born replacements who in 2yrs time will let me front load calving better.

I wasn't commenting on people like yourself that are in a transitioning phase and I can see how it's useful in your case.

I have come across cases of fertile enough herds who aren't hitting breeding targets due to bad management and are then being seduced by the sexed semen sales pitch as a solution to there problem of not breeding enough heifers, when all these lads really need to do is hit a 90% 21 day submission rate and work a bit harder during the breeding season.

Greengrass1

Coonagh wrote: »

I wasn't commenting on people like yourself that are in a transitioning phase and I can see how it's useful in your case.

I have come across cases of fertile enough herds who aren't hitting breeding targets due to bad management and are then being seduced by the sexed semen sales pitch as a solution to there problem of not breeding enough heifers, when all these lads really need to do is hit a 90% 21 day submission rate and work a bit harder during the breeding season.

+1 on that. Last yr calving for 8 months if the yr basicly.
This yr 5.5 months. Started in September finished 2nd WK of November and starting to kick off again now and finished 25th April
Hopefully only 4 months next yr AI on winter herd gone very well fingers crossed will only be 6 wks calving.
If I can get spring calving down to 8/10wks I'll be on the pigs back.
All down to more attention to detail during breeding and getting minerals right for cows.
Herd was always very fertile but it was effectively locked up with various problems

awaywithyou

used sexed on all maiden heifers last april... we usually just let them with aa bull 1st may... last yr we started ai on heifers 10h april.. and let them out wit aa bull 1st may as usual... he had a quiet summer... all bar 2 heifers kept to sexed and most of them are calved... have to say we are fair happy with it....

cosatron

really like the heifers we have out of KSK and PBM this year and they seem to holding there ebi well so might try them again with HZB or LWR. Looking for a good bull for this years heifers, there sired by ABO, ROF,CGH, AXN, any advice, one sire for them all.

mahoney_j

cosatron wrote: »

really like the heifers we have out of KSK and PBM this year and they seem to holding there ebi well so might try them again with HZB or LWR. Looking for a good bull for this years heifers, there sired by ABO, ROF,CGH, AXN, any advice, one sire for them all.

Your heifers for bulling this year are by very nice Bulls,sire advice on herd plus is a great tool for picking scream of bulls.dont think I'd use just one

Timmaay

Hmy

mahoney_j

Timmaay wrote: »

Hmy

Not enough milk ,tiny calves.good bull for very milky cows with high milk kg.ive hmy heifers calving down now and have to say not too impressed with how there bagging down ,don't think there's great potential in them.in calf to axn so he should put lots of milk back

Timmaay

mahoney_j wrote: »

Not enough milk ,tiny calves.good bull for very milky cows with high milk kg.ive hmy heifers calving down now and have to say not too impressed with how there bagging down ,don't think there's great potential in them.in calf to axn so he should put lots of milk back

Fair enough, none in the parlour yet but the few heifers have flown it, very hardy as calves and well ahead of target weights. Mostly calved to quite milky dams so hopefully won't have the same problems as you.

Main thing I really really need to breed out are small leaky teats!! Got about 10cows who are very leaky and it's sent my Scc sky high now that they are housed, the bloody cow is prb losing 20% of milk also. The worst of them I've just given up breeding replacements from, instead give a HE to.

Milked out

What are the best jersey bulls out there? Mite trial a few on big cows with low solids see what happens. Anything to watch for? Have been told to watch for ligaments that the udder could head south with some. Seems to be a large size difference within the herd already so they shouldn't make much odds that way and as I say it will only be a few, the rest I'm happy to keep going with hol / fr.

Milked out

cosatron wrote: »

really like the heifers we have out of KSK and PBM this year and they seem to holding there ebi well so might try them again with HZB or LWR. Looking for a good bull for this years heifers, there sired by ABO, ROF,CGH, AXN, any advice, one sire for them all.

OCP could be good on those heifers, particularly the ones off rof and cgh to help improve the bf. Calving figures is 91% reliability

Coonagh

Milked out wrote: »

What are the best jersey bulls out there? Mite trial a few on big cows with low solids see what happens. Anything to watch for? Have been told to watch for ligaments that the udder could head south with some. Seems to be a large size difference within the herd already so they shouldn't make much odds that way and as I say it will only be a few, the rest I'm happy to keep going with hol / fr.

Pka and okm are the only two JE Bulls I'd consider both daughter proven and both with progressive genetics/Munster PKA has a huge production sub index of 147 (I think)

Milked out

stanflt wrote: »

Raphael from pg????

Who's this Stan?

Milked out

Coonagh wrote: »

Pka and okm are the only two JE Bulls I'd consider both daughter proven and both with progressive genetics/Munster PKA has a huge production sub index of 147 (I think)

His fert index seems lowish at 77, do you think hybrid vigour would make up for it? Serious f and p kgs

Greengrass1

Milked out wrote: »

What are the best jersey bulls out there? Mite trial a few on big cows with low solids see what happens. Anything to watch for? Have been told to watch for ligaments that the udder could head south with some. Seems to be a large size difference within the herd already so they shouldn't make much odds that way and as I say it will only be a few, the rest I'm happy to keep going with hol / fr.

PKA would be my first choice fertility figures not massive but you will gain in the hybrid vigor.
OKM is another good bull

Coonagh

Milked out wrote: »

His fert index seems lowish at 77, do you think hybrid vigour would make up for it? Serious f and p kgs

I'm using him on hols with fertility sub indexes if 100+ So between that and hybrid vigour I'm not concerned

Greengrass1

DJB another one. Used a good bit of him.
We tend to put most of heifers here incalf to je and cows to fr/ho. Get s nice mixture in herd then

Milked out

Greengrass1 wrote: »

DJB another one. Used a good bit of him.
We tend to put most of heifers here incalf to je and cows to fr/ho. Get s nice mixture in herd then

Have u many 4th+ lactation, no functional issues? Neighbour has a good few but they would be young cows yet but look tidy enough

Greengrass1

Milked out wrote: »

Have u many 4th+ lactation, no functional issues? Neighbour has a good few but they would be young cows yet but look tidy enough

Ye loads. 5 heifers calvinv this yr are cross breds and two of my oldest cows here are jex.
Bags are getting a bit shook now alright but out of all the herd id say there's only one jex with a bad bag and she's 10 yrs old now.

stanflt

Milked out wrote: »

Who's this Stan?

potentially better than axn

bull may have it all?

type
milk
solids
fert


after all even ill admit that its nice to have good cows to look at while milking

Ruxin

Greengrass1 wrote: »

PKA would be my first choice fertility figures not massive but you will gain in the hybrid vigor.
OKM is another good bull

Dont think okm is available anymore couldn't get him last year.

just do it

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Ye loads. 5 heifers calvinv this yr are cross breds and two of my oldest cows here are jex.
Bags are getting a bit shook now alright but out of all the herd id say there's only one jex with a bad bag and she's 10 yrs old now.

GG
Make a bit of space in your inbox 😉

just do it

just do it wrote: »

GG
Make a bit of space in your inbox 😉

I see now where all the squiggly figures come from. That's a wink icon on a windows phone

Greengrass1

just do it wrote: »

GG
Make a bit of space in your inbox 😉

You must do the same 😀

mahoney_j

stanflt wrote: »

potentially better than axn

bull may have it all?

type
milk
solids
fert


after all even ill admit that its nice to have good cows to look at while milking

First of my axn heifers starting to calve down and have to say they really look the part ,good size ,great udders and serious looking milk potential

Milked out

stanflt wrote: »

potentially better than axn

bull may have it all?

type
milk
solids
fert


after all even ill admit that its nice to have good cows to look at while milking

Think I found him there, goldenfield? Looks very well balanced.

cosatron

Milked out wrote: »

Think I found him there, goldenfield? Looks very well balanced.

Have you a prefix or ai code for this magical bull, by any chance

Milked out

cosatron wrote: »

Have you a prefix or ai code for this magical bull, by any chance

He has no ai code yet, goldenfield Raphael is the name. Rang the rep there and he said he has no code because he wouldn't have enough straws put out for the coming season so they haven't him out there.

jaymla627

Lavaman (s1137) would be a bull well worth looking at his proof for fertility at 61 is crazy low should be well over 100....