How will you vote in the Marriage Equality referendum? Mod Note Post 1

Maximus Alexander

gravehold wrote: »

It's the married couple protection

There is no married couple 'protection' relating to adoption. There is nothing at all in the constitution relating to adoption.

You're a liar.

Bannasidhe

gravehold wrote: »

Referendum needs to pass so gay couples can be married then get the same constitutional protection for adoption as straights

Not True.

No mention of adoption in the Constitution. Married couples do not have a right to adopt.

And Children and Family Relationship Act has changed Adoption Law to broaden the criteria for when people can adopt as a couple.

Full act available here http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Children%20and%20Family%20Relationships%20Act%202015.pdf/Files/Children%20and%20Family%20Relationships%20Act%202015.pdf

One eyed Jack

gravehold wrote: »

Not in force yet so gay couples havn't got the same chance to adpot yet as married couples and the legislation can change on a whim once it comes into force. Referendum needs to pass so gay couples can be married then get the same constitutional protection for adoption as straights

How many more times are you actually going to spread that lie? Because that's what it is at this point. You're no longer just misinformed, you're outright lying!


It wasn't because a couple were gay that they weren't eligible for adoption btw. Heterosexual cohabiting couples were also prohibited from applying jointly to adopt a child (my friend who is cohabiting with her boyfriend for years, had to apply solely to adopt a child they had fostered. They could not apply as a couple).

The relevant section of the Children and Family Relationship Act 2015 you're looking for is this bit -

The Bill amends the Adoption Act 2010 to extend its provisions
to civil partners and cohabiting couples. Civil partners and cohabiting
couples, where the latter have lived together for three years, will
have the right to apply jointly to adopt a child. It provides for such
couples to be subject to the same assessment processes and eligibility
criteria as for married couples. It also makes provisions for a civil
partnered or a same-sex cohabiting couple to place a child for
adoption where that child is the child of both of them. The Bill
provides for civil partners and cohabiting couples to be eligible for
adoptive leave.

Source: https://www.iasw.ie/attachments/Chil...andum_2015.pdf


The situation for unmarried couples under the terms of the Adoption Act 2010 are set out below -

Unmarried couples may not jointly adopt a child. A joint adoption by a couple is only possible where that couple is married and living together. This rule prevents an unmarried couple from jointly adopting a child even where one of the parties is the biological or legal parent of the child. There are no proposals to change adoption law in Ireland to permit adoption by unmarried couples.

Under the adoption legislation, it is possible for a single person to adopt if the Adoption Authority considers it desirable and it must regard the welfare of the child as its first and paramount consideration. This means that if you are living with a same-sex or opposite-sex partner, you may apply to the Authority to adopt a child in your own right, intending to raise the child with your partner. However, your partner would have no legal rights in relation to the child. The fact you are in a relationship is relevant only when evaluating circumstances that might affect the child's welfare.

For a foreign adoption to be recognised in Ireland, it must comply with the definition of adoption in Irish law. This means that the rule that only married couples may jointly adopt will apply.

Source: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en...d_couples.html

gravehold

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

There is no married couple 'protection' relating to adoption. There is nothing at all in the constitution relating to adoption.

You're a liar.

Currently married couple are the ones considered preferential for domestic adoption, once ssm comes in the staright and married couple will be equal and discrimination law will stop the adoption board preferring a straight couple. Have constitutional protection will bring way more then justnbeing married it has ramifications on other things

MrWalsh

gravehold wrote: »

Currently married couple are the ones considered preferential for domestic adoption, once ssm comes in the staright and married couple will be equal and discrimination law will stop the adoption board preferring a straight couple. Have constitutional protection will bring way more then justnbeing married it has ramifications on other things

Again, this is incorrect.

gravehold

One eyed Jack wrote: »

How many more times are you actually going to spread that lie? Because that's what it is at this point. You're no longer just misinformed, you're outright lying!


It wasn't because a couple were gay that they weren't eligible for adoption btw. Heterosexual cohabiting couples were also prohibited from applying jointly to adopt a child (my friend who is cohabiting with her boyfriend for years, had to apply solely to adopt a child they had fostered. They could not apply as a couple).

The relevant section of the Children and Family Relationship Act 2015 you're looking for is this bit -




The situation for unmarried couples under the terms of the Adoption Act 2010 are set out below -



I have never said unmarried couples, married couples have the preference.

Maximus Alexander

gravehold wrote: »

Currently married couple are the ones considered preferential for domestic adoption

A lie.

gravehold wrote: »

, once ssm comes in the staright and married couple will be equal and discrimination law will stop the adoption board preferring a straight couple.

A lie.

gravehold wrote: »

Have constitutional protection will bring way more then justnbeing married it has ramifications on other things

Vague nonsense.

smokingman

gravehold wrote: »

Currently married couple are the ones considered preferential for domestic adoption, once ssm comes in the staright and married couple will be equal and discrimination law will stop the adoption board preferring a straight couple. Have constitutional protection will bring way more then justnbeing married it has ramifications on other things

So what you're saying, is that gay couples are "lesser" somehow? Do please tell me why again?

Bannasidhe

gravehold wrote: »

Currently married couple are the ones considered preferential for domestic adoption,

Incorrect.

Currently (for approx the next 8 days) only a married couple may adopt as a couple.

They do not get 'preference' over a single person.

gravehold

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

A lie.



A lie.



Vague nonsense.

aai.gov.ie/index.php/domestic-adoption/faq-domestic-adoption.html

Here is the current one, where does it say a gay couple can adopt only a married couple are able to adopt.

DanDublin1982

gravehold wrote: »

Currently married couple are the ones considered preferential for domestic adoption, once ssm comes in the staright and married couple will be equal and discrimination law will stop the adoption board preferring a straight couple. Have constitutional protection will bring way more then justnbeing married it has ramifications on other things

Adoption is not a bidding war. There is no hierarchy of who gets any child through adoption.

Maximus Alexander

gravehold wrote: »

aai.gov.ie/index.php/domestic-adoption/faq-domestic-adoption.html

Here is the current one, where does it say a gay couple can adopt only a married couple are able to adopt.

Not current. Another lie.

upinthesky

So the referendum is about equality and marriage, but it also gives gay couples all the rights that goes along with been married, this to include adoption, which is fine.

MrWalsh

gravehold wrote: »

aai.gov.ie/index.php/domestic-adoption/faq-domestic-adoption.html

Here is the current one, where does it say a gay couple can adopt only a married couple are able to adopt.

Once again this has been superceded by the Children and Family Relationships Act 2015.

gravehold

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Incorrect.

Currently (for approx the next 8 days) only a married couple may adopt as a couple.

They do not get 'preference' over a single person.

A married couple are obviously not a single person hence why I said a married couple. And without the ssm constitutional protection what allows gay couple to adopt in a few days can easily be removed while constitutional protections can't

Ave Sodalis

lisar816 wrote: »

So the referendum is about equality and marriage, but it also gives gay couples all the rights that goes along with been married, this to include adoption, which is fine.

Nope, they can already adopt and will be able to do so after the referendum whether it passes or not.

gravehold

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Not current. Another lie.

It's is the current no changes have gone into force yet

jobbridge4life

lisar816 wrote: »

So the referendum is about equality and marriage, but it also gives gay couples all the rights that goes along with been married, this to include adoption, which is fine.

No the rights concerning adoption are completely separate matter dealt with in independent legislation that has already passed the Oireachtas and been signed by the President and awaits only enactment. Gravehold and others have been deliberately trying to falsely associate the two together.

Maximus Alexander

lisar816 wrote: »

So the referendum is about equality and marriage, but it also gives gay couples all the rights that goes along with been married, this to include adoption, which is fine.

Adoption law has been changed in the Children and Family Relationships Act, so it doesn't give gay couples that right. They already have it.

Well, actually nobody has it because there's no such thing as 'a right to adopt', but they are now eligible to adopt as a couple where the relevant authorities consider them the most suitable candidates.

Ave Sodalis

gravehold wrote: »

A married couple are obviously not a single person hence why I said a married couple. And without the ssm constitutional protection what allows gay couple to adopt in a few days can easily be removed while constitutional protections can't

But a change to the constitution won't protect adoption

gravehold

lisar816 wrote: »

So the referendum is about equality and marriage, but it also gives gay couples all the rights that goes along with been married, this to include adoption, which is fine.

Yes exactly

upinthesky

sup_dude wrote: »

Nope, they can already adopt and will be able to do so after the referendum whether it passes or not.

Really, they can adopt a child that has no biological relation to either, didnt no that.

Ave Sodalis

gravehold wrote: »

It's is the current no changes have gone into force yet

It's already written into law though so it is current.

GCU Flexible Demeanour

my friend wrote: »

As David Norris said:

'If you don't know, vote No'

Me, David Norris, John Waters.

Quis separabit?

Bannasidhe

lisar816 wrote: »

So the referendum is about equality and marriage, but it also gives gay couples all the rights that goes along with been married, this to include adoption, which is fine.

It really doesn't.

The Referendum will allow Gay people to get married if passed and this will grant them Constitution protection as a family whether or not they ever have children by any means. Same as heterosexuals.

The Children and Family Relationship Act extends who can adopt as a couple beyond the old 'only married couples'. This has been signed in to law and will come into force before the Referendum.

The results of the Referendum has no impact on who can adopt.

MrWalsh

gravehold wrote: »

It's is the current no changes have gone into force yet

It has been signed into law and will be in force in a week or so.

How are you so obtuse? Seriously? Its like a discussion forum with a woodpecker pecking away making the same senseless noise repeatedly.

gravehold

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Adoption law has been changed in the justice.ie/en/JELR/Children%20and%20Family%20Relationships%20Act%202015.pdf/Files/Children%20and%20Family%20Relationships%20Act%202015.pdf"]Children and Family Relationships Act[/URL], so it doesn't give gay couples that right. They already have it.

Well, actually nobody has it because there's no such thing as 'a right to adopt', but they are now eligible to adopt as a couple where the relevant authorities consider them the most suitable candidates.

This right can easily be removed by the next goverment unless ssm passes then gay married couples get the same protection to adopt as straights

Bannasidhe

gravehold wrote: »

A married couple are obviously not a single person hence why I said a married couple. And without the ssm constitutional protection what allows gay couple to adopt in a few days can easily be removed while constitutional protections can't

You said a married couple gets preference.

They don't.

gravehold

lisar816 wrote: »

Really, they can adopt a child that has no biological relation to either, didnt no that.

In 8 days and the right can be removed unless you vote yes for ssm

Ave Sodalis

gravehold wrote: »

This right can easily be removed by the next goverment unless ssm passes then gay married couples get the same protection to adopt as straights

The referendum will not protect it.