How will you vote in the Marriage Equality referendum? Mod Note Post 1

gravehold

mickydoomsux wrote: »

I find it hilarious that the no campaign are using the buzzword "bullying" so much.

Children of same sex couples will be bullied, they themselves are being bullied for having an unpopular opinion, etc.

They basically picked something that they know people can't support in our modern PC society (bullyingt) to try to justify their own backwards, minority viewpoint.

Majority have the privilege and yes side are the majority so are the privileged bullies, this is just the first time they are feeling what privilege feels like.

Welcome to the 21st century where if you are in the majority you are a ****lord

Hyzepher

gravehold wrote: »

aai.gov.ie/index.php/domestic-adoption/faq-domestic-adoption.html

So wrong this is why I have a problem with the yes side saying it won't effect adoption

I think you are reading more into that link than is intended.

Quote the text on the AAI site that gives preferences

Maximus Alexander

Lt J.R. Bell wrote: »

It will be extremely difficult to discriminate between married gays and married straights , if gays are allowed to marry.

Oh no. You've changed my mind. I'm voting no now. It hadn't occurred to me we might be making it more difficult to discriminate against people with the ghey.

GCU Flexible Demeanour

Bannasidhe wrote: »

If you don't want to answer the question as asked that's fine.

If I ever pose a question which contains the phrase ' please critique the phrasing of this question' the above answer will be acceptable.

I'm not critiquing your phrasing, just the assumptions in how the matter is approach by folk on both the No and Yes side.

And, of course, I utterly respect your right to stick to the familiar path.

Lt J.R. Bell

floggg wrote: »

Quoting it a second time doesn't make it any more sense.

You would say that, you are in denial, beyond curing. The repeated quote was not for your benefit , I assure you.

gravehold

seamus wrote: »

Well for a start, that's not a list of priority. It's just a list. A married couple is not given "preference" over a single person.

And secondly, as has been pointed out to you a number of times, that's the old rules, which will cease to be in effect on 19th May.

This referendum will not affect the new rules which come into force on 19th May.

Anyone who claims this referendum will affect adoption is either ignorant or outright lying.

Gay couple cannpt adopt in those rules till the act comes into force, if no wins next government and revert it. But if yes win that's not possible cause the will be constitutionally married

Hyzepher

Lt J.R. Bell wrote: »

It will be extremely difficult to discriminate between married gays and married straights , if gays are allowed to marry. At least there might be some basis (and their is barely, especially when looking at the child's interest)) between married people and non married people

If the referendum is passed why would we what to discriminate them in the future?

At least now you are admitting that the current situation is discrimination.

Not a NSA agent

Lt J.R. Bell wrote: »

It will be extremely difficult to discriminate between married gays and married straights , if gays are allowed to marry. At least there might be some basis (and their is barely, especially when looking at the child's interest)) between married people and non married people

Wait wait wait. We'll be making it more difficult to discriminate? If I cant discriminate then Im being discriminated against!

gravehold

Hyzepher wrote: »

I think you are reading more into that link than is intended.

Quote the text on the AAI site that gives preferences

Quote where a gay couple are allowed to adopt

Zubeneschamali

kunst nugget wrote: »

Should people who agree with the general consensus on this thread not post for fear of hurting the feelings of those that don't?

I think the GCU is in favour of arguing the minority side to try to even things up, rather than just not posting.

smash

You'd swear that the No side are convinced that all gay people only want to get married so they can go and adopt a child.

One eyed Jack

gravehold wrote: »

Your missing the point yes side said it won't effect adoption at all and gave out to the no side for bringing it up. But a yes vote a very stong ramification to adoption not directly but secondarly so NO have a point in bring up adoption

Neither a yes or no vote will have any bearing on a person's suitability to apply for domestic or intercountry adoption of a child. There are many more factors taken into consideration in deciding whether a person is eligible or even suitable for adoption in the first place, and secondly other factors such as living relatives, ethnic, cultural and religious or non-religious factors are considered. There's a whole plethora of considerations are looked at actually and it's not just as easy as every application to adopt a child is approved by the Adoption Authority.

The NO side do not have any point in bringing up adoption because it's completely irrelevant to whether a couple actually meet the criteria for civil marriage. They have to meet a completely different set of criteria to be eligible or even considered suitable for adoption, but this has nothing whatsoever to do with their eligibility for marriage.

Hyzepher

gravehold wrote: »

Quote where a gay couple are allowed to adopt

You argue that married couples are given preference by the AAI when adopting - above all other group eligible to adopt - including single gay people.

That's what I'm pulling you up on.

Lt J.R. Bell

SpaceTime wrote: »

I'm just wondering when they're going to attempt to link Gay Marriage to an increase in water charges.

Well, considering a few business heads have notions that gay marriage will improve business , hey, it's worth a shot

gravehold

Hyzepher wrote: »

You argue that married couples are given preference by the AAI when adopting - above all other group eligible to adopt - including single gay people.

That's what I'm pulling you up on.

So the married straight couple get preference over the gay couple who cannot adopt

aloyisious

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Yea but now that your no longer saying marriage is just between a woman and a man, will somebody not get the hump and call it discrimination. I'm sure 2 gay parents wouldn't be happy with current status quo.

Your last sentence is right (if I'm reading it correctly) people are calling the message that marriage is just between a man and a woman discrimination. One such gay couple is Colm O'Gorman and his partner, a family with kids. If you meant that the argument for a YES vote is a new discrimination, then that is what all the NO vote groups are fighting against, though they won't describe themselves as being discriminated against. That's because they have access to marriage and they don't want to share it with their fellow Irish citizens.

Not a NSA agent

smash wrote: »

You'd swear that the No side are convinced that all gay people only want to get married so they can go and adopt a child.

I thought they were going to take the children away from unsuspecting mothers in the park leaving behind a stack of 50s?

No wait, thats surrogacy.

seamus

gravehold wrote: »

So the married straight couple get preference over the gay couple who cannot adopt

Yes, under the old laws. Under the new ones, no.

frostyjacks

Bannasidhe wrote: »

You could up to 1981. It could be argued that this 'redefined' marriage by making a promise to enter a contract of marriage no longer legally binding. :P

Interestingly enough one can sue a couple for not getting married if they don't return gifts...

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth_family_relationships/getting_married/legal_implications_of_a_broken_engagement.html

I would return all gifts bar Le Creuset. That's my Alamo, my Gorse Hill

Hyzepher

gravehold wrote: »

So the married straight couple get preference over the gay couple who cannot adopt

Up to the recent Children's Bill, yes - because gay couples weren't eligible.

But, and here's the kicker, the AAI do not give preference to married couples over those who are eligible.

In fact being married or not married is probably low down on the list of important factors when considering suitability to adopt.

MrWalsh

gravehold wrote: »

So the married straight couple get preference over the gay couple who cannot adopt

Oh my god, are you STILL flogging this horse - NO. There is no preference anymore!!

gravehold

seamus wrote: »

Yes, under the old laws. Under the new ones, no.

And if you vote no they can be changed back, vote yes and gay adoption is stuck constitutionally

Hyzepher

gravehold wrote: »

And if you vote no they can be changed back, vote yes and gay adoption is stuck constitutionally

And this is an issue why?

gravehold

MrWalsh wrote: »

Oh my god, are you STILL flogging this horse - NO. There is no preference anymore!!

There is untill the new act comes into force one that can be changed back in the future if you vote no

endacl

gravehold wrote: »

vote yes and gay adoption is stuck constitutionally

Not really. We have this procedure called a 'referendum', d'you see.

Not that your point makes any sense either way.

gravehold

Hyzepher wrote: »

And this is an issue why?

Cause yes said the referendum would have no effect on adoption

seamus

gravehold wrote: »

And if you vote no they can be changed back, vote yes and gay adoption is stuck constitutionally

Nope, incorrect.

Vote yes and the law can still be changed to make adoption more discriminatory.

There is no mention of adoption or adoptive rights in the constitution.

gravehold

endacl wrote: »

Not really. We have this procedure called a 'referendum', d'you see.

Not that your point makes any sense either way.

Hence why if someone doesn't want gay adoption they should vote no this time

eviltwin

gravehold wrote: »

And if you vote no they can be changed back, vote yes and gay adoption is stuck constitutionally

Adoption isn't mentioned in the constitution. Why can't it be changed? Married couples don't have an automatic right to adopt, if they aren't suitable they don't get approval, same will happen with gay couples so what is the issue?

gravehold

seamus wrote: »

Nope, incorrect.

Vote yes and the law can still be changed to make adoption more discriminatory.

There is no mention of adoption or adoptive rights in the constitution.

Discrimination laws won't allow it, if gays are married they are equal so the discrimination law will make it so they can adopt like the straights.