How will you vote in the Marriage Equality referendum? Mod Note Post 1

ohnonotgmail

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

he said comfortable

so he did. my apologies to DoctorEdgeWild

aloyisious

frostyjacks wrote: »

Gays already have equality in this country. This referendum is asking us to give them something that just isn't meant for them.

We do NOT have equality. To you, the constitution must be a means to an end; that of ensuring other citizens don't have the same rights existing in it you got from it. Hopefully a majority YES vote will prove you wrong about what our fellow citizens think and show you there is no THEM and US when it comes to constitutional rights.

VinLieger

yvo8hzxb9fku3e wrote: »

That's the Central point of the No campaign. Have you switched sides?

The difference being that the Yes side admit people are different but everyone is equal

galljga1

yvo8hzxb9fku3e wrote: »

That's the Central point of the No campaign. Have you switched sides?

Different but equal? No, that won't work.

Ah, you know what I mean: melting pot, all accepted regardless of differing characteristics.

frostyjacks

frostyjacks wrote: »

I have no issue with any of the above, provided the children are raised in a loving, healthy family unit.

Something which can be - and is - provided by people regardless of how many of them there are or what sex they are. Single parents offer a loving stable family unit. Heterosexual couples do it. Homosexual couples do it. Other configurations do it too - such as my own which is an MFF relationship with 2 children - and 2 more planned in the future.

It appears to be YOUR contention that how loving - caring - or stable a family unit is in terms of child rearing is related to the quantity or sex of the parents engaged in the project. Yet I see nothing from you backing this assertion up - nor any acknowledgement from you that this has absolutely nothing to do with this thread - topic - or referendum. All I see is you systematically ignoring posts calling you on these things or asking you to prove what you assert.

frostyjacks wrote: »

How many of us, hand on heart, would be comfortable sending our sons to a sleepover where the friend's parents are homosexuals?

I can see no issue with doing so - nor any basis for why I could should or would. Let alone from you. Quite the opposite in fact as I would be MORE likely to want to send them there and to single parent households so they can see a greater variety of peoples lives - and not get stuck with the naive and ignorant notion that there is "one way ok" about any of it.

aloyisious

GCU Flexible Demeanour wrote: »

I agree. It's becoming an absolute sewer of a campaign. Yes Voters really just want to have a go at someone. If they can't find a religious loon to have a go at, they'll just chuck the diatribe at you instead. Because they tots want to get it off their chest.

And, personally, I find that makes me want to give them two fingers. Because there's nothing funnier than watching an irate bigot.

Is this what you mean? Roll on the 23rd, hopefully I will be waving a WC salute and a large rainbow flag at Merrion Square.

wetfoot

frostyjacks wrote: »

How many of us, hand on heart, would be comfortable sending our sons to a sleepover where the friend's parents are homosexuals?

What is it that you think is going to happen? Seriously, I would love for someone to actually answer this..

I mean, do you think that it's all disco, drugs and x rated films? Do you think we are going to be sitting your child down in front of a flip board with a 10 page presentation on queer theory or dressing them up in rainbow colours? Or is it really that you think we are going to creep into the children's bedroom in the middle of the night?

ohnonotgmail

wetfoot wrote: »

What is it that you think is going to happen? Seriously, I would love for someone to actually answer this..

i would love frostyjacks to answer it. but he wont.

galljga1

Deleted User wrote: »

Something which can be - and is - provided by people regardless of how many of them there are or what sex they are. Single parents offer a loving stable family unit. Heterosexual couples do it. Homosexual couples do it. Other configurations do it too - such as my own which is an MFF relationship with 2 children - and 2 more planned in the future.

It appears to be YOUR contention that how loving - caring - or stable a family unit is in terms of child rearing is related to the quantity or sex of the parents engaged in the project. Yet I see nothing from you backing this assertion up - nor any acknowledgement from you that this has absolutely nothing to do with this thread - topic - or referendum. All I see is you systematically ignoring posts calling you on these things or asking you to prove what you assert.



I can see no issue with doing so - nor any basis for why I could should or would. Let alone from you. Quite the opposite in fact as I would be MORE likely to want to send them there and to single parent households so they can see a greater variety of peoples lives - and not get stuck with the naive and ignorant notion that there is "one way ok" about any of it.

Agreed 100%.

kunst nugget

Deleted User wrote: »

I can see no issue with doing so - nor any basis for why I could should or would. Let alone from you. Quite the opposite in fact as I would be MORE likely to want to send them there and to single parent households so they can see a greater variety of peoples lives - and not get stuck with the naive and ignorant notion that there is "one way ok" about any of it.

'Okay, Jessie darling, you're going to have a sleepover in Ronan's house tonight. What's that you say? You don't want to go because you think he's a dick? I don't care what you think of him! You're going because his parents are gay and I want to make you open-minded!'

wp_rathead

frostyjacks wrote: »

How many of us, hand on heart, would be comfortable sending our sons to a sleepover where the friend's parents are homosexuals? Like it or not, these are the issues people will be thinking about when they're casting their vote

I'd be much more uncomfortable sending them to a friends house whose parents hold bigoted views tbh

One eyed Jack

frostyjacks wrote: »

I have no issue with any of the above, provided the children are raised in a loving, healthy family unit. I just don't see why we should buy into the lie that a gay marriage should be classed as equal to a normal marriage.

You'd sooner buy into the lie that it's any different. Do you honestly and truly believe that a gay couple wouldn't have the same financial worries or whatever else that a heterosexual couple would have? Their problems or whatever else wouldn't be any different from anyone else who is married.

How many of us, hand on heart, would be comfortable sending our sons to a sleepover where the friend's parents are homosexuals? Like it or not, these are the issues people will be thinking about when they're casting their vote

Hand on heart I wouldn't let my child stay with anyone I didn't already know and trust very well, and I certainly wouldn't let him stay in a household where I knew the parents spent all their time obsessing about other people's relationships. I'd consider that kind of person a negative influence in my child's life and I wouldn't encourage any sort of a friendship where their own child was being influenced by their parents to be so intolerant of other people for any reason.

Like it or not, these are the issues that you're thinking about when casting your vote, and you really can't speak for anyone else.

DoctorEdgeWild

Just booked my flights home to Dublin to vote yes in this referendum.

I don't think I should be entitled to vote, considering I live abroad, but I'm very glad I can in this case.

kylith

frostyjacks wrote: »

How many of us, hand on heart, would be comfortable sending our sons to a sleepover where the friend's parents are homosexuals?

Why would you be? Do you think gay people are child abusers? More likely to be so than heterosexuals? Surely your daughter would be safer at a sleepover in a house with two gay men than a house with a heterosexual man.

StewartGriffin

OldNotWIse wrote: »

2. As I said, I am not willing to trawl through 20 pages of bitter tripe to find them. If you don't believe me, that's not my problem.

It's not a question of me believing you or not. This being a discussion forum it's good practice to reference what you are objecting to. You admit that you can't be bothered to do that. In my opinion that's just lazy debating.

aloyisious

frostyjacks wrote: »

I have no issue with any of the above, provided the children are raised in a loving, healthy family unit. I just don't see why we should buy into the lie that a gay marriage should be classed as equal to a normal marriage.

How many of us, hand on heart, would be comfortable sending our sons to a sleepover where the friend's parents are homosexuals? Like it or not, these are the issues people will be thinking about when they're casting their vote

Would it bother you if the homosexuals were female?

c_man

frostyjacks wrote: »

How many of us, hand on heart, would be comfortable sending our sons to a sleepover where the friend's parents are homosexuals? Like it or not, these are the issues people will be thinking about when they're casting their vote

They might hear the sounds of sodomy in the night :eek:

OldNotWIse

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cX8szNPgrEs

ohnonotgmail

c_man wrote: »

They might hear the sounds of sodomy in the night :eek:

remind us what that sounds like.

OldNotWIse

c_man wrote: »

They might hear the sounds of sodomy in the night :eek:

Sounds like something that would run on the West End :P

wp_rathead

One eyed Jack wrote: »

.
Hand on heart I wouldn't let my child stay with anyone I didn't already know and trust very well, and I certainly wouldn't let him stay in a household where I knew the parents spent all their time obsessing about other people's relationships. I'd consider that kind of person a negative influence in my child's life and I wouldn't encourage any sort of a friendship where their own child was being influenced by their parents to be so intolerant of other people for any reason.

That is rather unfair imo

kunst nugget

kunst nugget wrote: »

'Okay, Jessie darling, you're going to have a sleepover in Ronan's house tonight. What's that you say? You don't want to go because you think he's a dick? I don't care what you think of him! You're going because his parents are gay and I want to make you open-minded!'

A cute but complete twist of what I said into a rant of things I never once said or even implied. Ta for that. I think the rest of the forum was clear that the implication was that the child in question actually wanted to go to the friends house in particular - and the poster was asking if we would feel comfortable letting them go there.

ohnonotgmail

wp_rathead wrote: »

That is rather unfair imo

why so?

galljga1

aloyisious wrote: »

Would it bother you if the homosexuals were female?

Dresses, glitter, makeup......c'mon.

Neyite

frostyjacks wrote: »

How many of us, hand on heart, would be comfortable sending our sons to a sleepover where the friend's parents are homosexuals? Like it or not, these are the issues people will be thinking about when they're casting their vote

I would be completely comfortable with that - provided I know the family well like I would with any family that I would send my child to.

And I say that as a person who was sexually abused by a pedophile as a child. I am hyper-aware of the extent of child sexual abuse in this country. I'm ever vigilant that I know the people extremely well who would look after my child. Probably to ensure that NOBODY gets the chance to hurt him the way my abuser hurt me.

So yes, it wouldn't even cross my mind to send him to stay with adults who are only attracted to other adults. Because they are no more a paedophile than you or I.

wp_rathead wrote: »

I'd be much more uncomfortable sending them to a friends house whose parents hold bigoted views tbh

Exactly. At the moment he goes to a multicultural crèche. In his classroom he plays with intellectually disabled children, children of various ethnicities, cultures and backgrounds. I love that he will grow up with all kinds of cultural diversity around him where skin colour is as unimportant as hair colour, where he respects and understands disability. Where he respects the culture and religions of others. Where there is gender equality.
I don't want my child exposed to hatred, bigotry or inequality.

Bannasidhe

kunst nugget wrote: »

'Okay, Jessie darling, you're going to have a sleepover in Ronan's house tonight. What's that you say? You don't want to go because you think he's a dick? I don't care what you think of him! You're going because his parents are gay and I want to make you open-minded!'

You wouldn't believe the number of ***** kids I had to allow sleep-over so their parents could show they were open-minded :mad:

kunst nugget

Deleted User wrote: »

A cute but complete twist of what I said into a rant of things I never once said or even implied. Ta for that. I think the rest of the forum was clear that the implication was that the child in question actually wanted to go to the friends house in particular - and the poster was asking if we would feel comfortable letting them go there.

I just don't understand the notion that you would be MORE likely to send your kids on a sleepover in certain situations. If the kid they're going on a sleepover isn't a dick and their parent or parents aren't assholes, what difference would it make if they were gay, straight, single or married and why would you prefer some of these over the other?

kunst nugget

kunst nugget wrote: »

I just don't understand the notion that you would be MORE likely to send your kids on a sleepover in certain situations. If the kid they're going on a sleepover isn't a dick and their parent or parents aren't assholes, what difference would it make if they were gay, straight, single or married and why would you prefer some of these over the other?

All of which has nothing to do with the post you actually made - which was to build up a nonsense and fantastical scenario of me forcibly sending a child to a home they do not want to go to just to satisfy some political ideal I may or may not hold.

The only point I was making was that I would be more than happy sending my child to such a place in the knowledge they are going to experience a diversity of ways of life. I would welcome their exposure to scenarios that instil in them first hand the idea that there is not one template for the family that everyone either conforms to - or is somehow deficient.

It is all well and good verbally teaching your children about diversity - but there is no substitute for seeing it in operation first hand - and seeing that such people are every bit as happy and stable and normal as any one else.

kylith

wp_rathead wrote: »

That is rather unfair imo

How so? Would you encourage a friendship with a child who had been influenced by their parents to be racist or sexist?

OldNotWIse

StewartGriffin wrote: »

It's not a question of me believing you or not. This being a discussion forum it's good practice to reference what you are objecting to. You admit that you can't be bothered to do that. In my opinion that's just lazy debating.

"Can't be bothered" is not the same as "do not have time to trawl through 30 pages of rubbish". But then again, not being able to differentiate between
two points seems to be a frequent occurrence around here. Perhaps its catching