Well known name footballers face bankruptcy and poverty

Harry Palmr

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/jan/23/footballers-tax-demands-hmrc

More than 100 footballers including recently retired Premier League players are in severe financial difficulties and even face bankruptcy, due to demands from Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs for repayment of huge disputed tax reliefs, the Guardian has learned. Some players who earned six-figure and million-pound-plus salaries during good careers in English football’s current boom time face losing everything.

Around 100 players, said to be in financial “dire straits”, are understood to have sought help from the players’ union, the Professional Footballers Association. Xpro, the welfare organisation for former players, is representing 40 more, according to its chief executive, Geoff Scott. He said all 40 are seriously affected by HMRC demands for the repayment of tax reliefs granted on various investment schemes, with around 20 facing potential bankruptcy and some even homelessness.

Pretty serious state of affairs, reminds me a bit of the way 70s rock groups invested in various schemes for tax purposes (in the era of the 95% Supertax rate) and who came croppers.

AllGunsBlazing

We are representing 40 players, many are divorced

Hmmm... I think it was more than just the tax man who bankrupted them.

NIMAN

Feel sorry for guys paid more in a week than most earn in a year?

Naw, don't think so. I'll not be losing any sleep over them I'm afraid.

SEPT 23 1989

NIMAN wrote: »

Feel sorry for guys paid more in a week than most earn in a year?

Naw, don't think so. I'll not be losing any sleep over them I'm afraid.

People fcuk up its just the economiy of scale

its not the big fish getting roasted here

Dirty Steve

Bit baffled as to how a person like David James can be bordering on bankruptcy.
Guy played 18 years in the Premier League, the vast majority of it as a first choice keeper.

He'd have to have been averaging £30,000 over those years,
which even after tax would mean 15 or 20 grand a week.

£15,000 over 18 years works out at just over 14 million pounds.
What the hell was he doing with it..

Edit: He declared bankruptcy in March of last year.

dreamers75

Have to agree with Niman here, sadly these lads were given immense wage packets ( 2k a week to me is immense) and managed to **** it away.

No education clearly doesnt help BUT this is what the PFA are for readying these lads for the money and ensuring it lasts.

NIMAN

Sure didn't Neville say last month that when he retired he didn't know how to make a cup of coffee, thats how little they had to do for themselves when a pro-footballer.

If you hand guys of that intellectual ability millions, they will probably p1ss it away.

I bet we'll never see the likes of Bergkamp, Henry, Zola, Van Nistelrooy etc declaring bankruptcy.

newballsplease

NIMAN wrote: »

Sure didn't Neville say last month that when he retired he didn't know how to make a cup of coffee, thats how little they had to do for themselves when a pro-footballer.

If you hand guys of that intellectual ability millions, they will probably p1ss it away.

I bet we'll never see the likes of Bergkamp, Henry, Zola, Van Nistelrooy etc declaring bankruptcy.

Where did neville say that?

Rojiblancos

newballsplease wrote: »

Where did neville say that?

It was phil neville. He said he had to ring his wife to ask how to make a cup of tea when he had a guest over. Also didn't know where the ironing board was in his house or never loaded the dishwasher

NIMAN

newballsplease wrote: »

Where did neville say that?

http://www.express.co.uk/life-style/life/550687/The-cosseted-life-of-modern-footballers-Spoilt-sport-stars-unable-to-make-tea-or-coffee

pappyodaniel

Rojiblancos wrote: »

It was phil neville. He said he had to ring his wife to ask how to make a cup of tea when he had a guest over. Also didn't know where the ironing board was in his house or never loaded the dishwasher

That's nothing got to do with being molly-coddled, Phil Neville is just a thick cnut.

bucketybuck

Dirty Steve wrote: »

Bit baffled as to how a person like David James can be bordering on bankruptcy.
Guy played 18 years in the Premier League, the vast majority of it as a first choice keeper.

He'd have to have been averaging £30,000 over those years,
which even after tax would mean 15 or 20 grand a week.

£15,000 over 18 years works out at just over 14 million pounds.
What the hell was he doing with it..

Edit: He declared bankruptcy in March of last year.

In fairness, there are a lot of supposedly intelligent businessmen who went bankrupt after having a lot more than £14 million.

Some headscratchers in the broke ranks.

Like John Barnes. Who should have had a fine career and made a lot in the 90s. Or John Aarne Riise, who was admittedly married a gazillion times.

They can't all be Paul Madeleys.

AllGunsBlazing

Some of these lads probably didn't know how to cut back on their spending habits once their career ended. I'd say heavy gambling would also account for some losses and quite a few might have made investments that went sour as well. Apparently Robbie Fowler made big bucks in shrewd property deals, but for every winner in the market there are also countless losers.

VW 1

Or for anyone who has read the likes of Keith Gillespie's book. A combination of betting habits, bad investment advice such as film schemes that leave you with a massive tax bill 5 years plus after initial onvestment and the amount of hangers on and so called trusted friends all eager to get a piece of you.

Can see how it could happen quite easily to a young, relatively uneducated lad who knows nothing else.

Sanity_Saviour

dreamers75 wrote: »

Have to agree with Niman here, sadly these lads were given immense wage packets ( 2k a week to me is immense) and managed to **** it away.

No education clearly doesnt help BUT this is what the PFA are for readying these lads for the money and ensuring it lasts.

it has to be noted that its very difficult when people become accustomed to a lifestyle to break out of that financial way of thinking. there's a natural inclination to emulate your peers and live in tune with your current means and saving isn't a natural thought.

From an outsiders point of view it's easy not to be able to empathise, but when you're propelled into a situation where your financial situation can literally go from 1m to zero it's very difficult to alter your decision making and lifestyle behaviours to a completely different world.

Obviously they shouldn't think like that but people aren't that simple!

Dirty Dingus McGee

Sanity_Saviour wrote: »

it has to be noted that its very difficult when people become accustomed to a lifestyle to break out of that financial way of thinking. there's a natural inclination to emulate your peers and live in tune with your current means and saving isn't a natural thought.

From an outsiders point of view it's easy not to be able to empathise, but when you're propelled into a situation where your financial situation can literally go from 1m to zero it's very difficult to alter your decision making and lifestyle behaviours to a completely different world.

Obviously they shouldn't think like that but people aren't that simple!

It's not that difficult for professional sportsmen to plan for the future.

Every player knows their going to have around a 10-15 year career and start saving a certain percentage every year so that you'll have a decent amount to live on afterwards.

Its really difficult to feel much sympathy for millionaire sports men who piss away all their money, when even a small proportion of saving would have them set for life after they retire, particularly when they have read loads of stories of players wasting all their money and been left with nothing when they retire.The ESPN documentary Broke was infuriating to watch.

Holsten

Boo hoo.

I pay my tax, all of it, on substantially less pay than these guys.

How anyone in the right frame of mind can leave a footballers career without being set for life is mindboggling.

brevity

Too much money at too young an age probably ****s with people. They might stuck into gambling or get bad investment advice..it happens.

thebaz

realistically the majority of modern EPL players should be comfortable for life - BUT - I believe that gambling could be a huge problems for those who go broke - how else could you squander such money - but Gambling can wipe any fortune , if one becomes addicted - just a theory

Kirby

Boo hoo. No sympathy for these people.

COYVB

Holsten wrote: »

Boo hoo.

I pay my tax, all of it, on substantially less pay than these guys.

And many of them pay more tax in a week than you do in a year

ToxicPaddy

Its not difficult to spot the ones that will be broke within 5 years of ending their career. Driving £100k sports cars, living in ridiculously huge houses with the usual perma tanned bimbo on their arm.

The sensible ones live on a few grand a month and are looking after their bodies to try and prolong their careers so instead of out partying endlessly, they are at home eating well and getting plenty of rest. These are the ones that get their coaching badges, get into the media and some even go back to uni at night.

I know one pro footballer who never made the premiership but did well in Div1 and is now a police officer for the Met and doing well for himself. Bought a few properties and saved his money, is mortgage free and happily married with a few kids.

Kinda surprising really as he came from nothing and suddenly was on a few grand a week. Never went to his head either which was nice to see. Wish more were like him.

No sympathy for a multi millionaire that can't handle their finances

dfx-

I don't see why how much money someone had at their disposal once upon a time is the qualifier for the level of sympathy.

12gauge dave

To be fair if i had every model in the country after me and nightclubs throwing vip sections at me and my love for cars and my face all over tvs and papers to top it off i can see how it could get very expensive and how id lose the run of myself

Dirty Steve

pappyodaniel wrote: »

That's nothing got to do with being molly-coddled, Phil Neville is just a thick cnut.

Yellow card for this? Bloody hell, I didn't know Phil Neville was on boards.

Or could read for that matter..

dfx-

dfx- wrote: »

I don't see why how much money someone had at their disposal once upon a time is the qualifier for the level of sympathy.

It doesn't really but that's the subject matter.

How hard is it to manage finances? Not too hard if you have a half decent paid job.

Now, these guys earn enough to employ people to look after their finances if they wish. If they waste it away I couldn't have much sympathy for them.

I'd imagine financial services and advice are probably offered to professional footballers from their clubs and the PFA. Probably free of charge too.

An interesting take on the same phenomenon in American sports, where 60%!of NBA players are broke within 5 years of retirement, and 78% of NFL players are bankrupt or in financial trouble within just 2 years.

http://youtu.be/TSOAwNSv8EM

Kirby

dfx- wrote: »

I don't see why how much money someone had at their disposal once upon a time is the qualifier for the level of sympathy.

It is an excellent qualifier for the level of sympathy. It's not bad luck.....Stupidity and greed is the crux of the issue. Using an analogy is probably the easiest way to convey it.

Imagine a guy is stranded on an Island. He knows he is going to be there for exactly 15 years and then he'll be rescued. He has enough food to last a hundred people comfortably, yet he gorges himself. He throws some of it into the sea, he builds himself a Ferrari coconut car, and uses boxes of Jaffa cakes to built a mansion hut. He eats more than he needs every day and scoffs it all down and gets nice and fat.

And then he runs out of food.

Most people who get stranded on an Island have to scrounge for food but this lucky fecker had more food than he could possibly use handed to him.....and he still f*cked it up due to greed and stupidity.

How much sympathy does he deserve?

Kirby

Kirby wrote: »

Imagine a guy is stranded on an Island. He knows he is going to be there for exactly 15 years and then he'll be rescued. He has enough food to last a hundred people comfortably, yet he gorges himself. He throws some of it into the sea, he builds himself a Ferrari coconut car, and uses boxes of Jaffa cakes to built a mansion hut. He eats more than he needs every day and scoffs it all down and gets nice and fat.

And then he runs out of food.

Most people who get stranded on an Island have to scrounge for food but this lucky fecker had more food than he could possibly use handed to him.....and he still f*cked it up due to greed and stupidity.

Have some heart.

He has to waste a lot of coconuts on the coconut leaf bikini beauties on the beaches of his desert island...

keeponhurling

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Have some heart.

He has to waste a lot of coconuts on the coconut leaf bikini beauties on the beaches of his desert island...

Are you referring to breasts ?

Hidalgo

[Deleted User] wrote: »

An interesting take on the same phenomenon in American sports, where 60%!of NBA players are broke within 5 years of retirement, and 78% of NFL players are bankrupt or in financial trouble within just 2 years.

http://youtu.be/TSOAwNSv8EM

This is something NFL are attempting to tackle. When all college players that have declared for the draft attend the combines, they have to attend classes in money management. Problem is though that players pay little or no heed in these classes.
ESPN had an excellent documentary (could have been part of the 30 for 30) which focused on a retired pro NFL player who was broke. The hangers on/ so called friends/ extended family weren't long eating into his stash

Talib Fiasco

Something people tend to forget a lot is that when a famous sports star retires from their sport their life and personality is altered massively. They no longer have that adrenalin rush from their sport. They no longer have the millions of fans roaring their name. They no longer have their face all over television and magazines. It is a massive shock to the system. Many turn to gambling, drugs and other stuff in order to fill that void. It's crazy how multi millionaires can go broke so quickly but it is not hard to believe at all.

dfx-

Kirby wrote: »

It is an excellent qualifier for the level of sympathy. It's not bad luck.....Stupidity and greed is the crux of the issue. Using an analogy is probably the easiest way to convey it.

Imagine a guy is stranded on an Island. He knows he is going to be there for exactly 15 years and then he'll be rescued. He has enough food to last a hundred people comfortably, yet he gorges himself. He throws some of it into the sea, he builds himself a Ferrari coconut car, and uses boxes of Jaffa cakes to built a mansion hut. He eats more than he needs every day and scoffs it all down and gets nice and fat.

And then he runs out of food.

Most people who get stranded on an Island have to scrounge for food but this lucky fecker had more food than he could possibly use handed to him.....and he still f*cked it up due to greed and stupidity.

How much sympathy does he deserve?

Maybe the desert island wasn't the idyllic place most thought it was. Maybe the coconut eating monkeys were stealing his coconuts every time his back was turned.

Imagine the mansion hut was built on the windy side of the island before a tropical storm ran through and blew it all away. Maybe it was impossible to get a fire going on his island and his life was a misery, though a misery with lots of coconuts and jaffa cakes.

Indeed, maybe the amount of coconuts or jaffa cakes he had left was the last thing he needed to worry about to survive...until they ran out.

It doesn't make his survival any less an achievement than the nearby paradise with no food.

rarnes1 wrote: »

It doesn't really but that's the subject matter.

How hard is it to manage finances? Not too hard if you have a half decent paid job.

Now, these guys earn enough to employ people to look after their finances if they wish. If they waste it away I couldn't have much sympathy for them.

I'd imagine financial services and advice are probably offered to professional footballers from their clubs and the PFA. Probably free of charge too.

It can be very difficult to manage finances. People who live beyond their means may well do so whether they are on €100 a week or €100,000 a week. If they have more, they'll spend more.

gosplan

Pah, all these working class people brought from a world of hand to mouth to a false world of endless resources should clearly have MY sensible middle-class attitude towards financial prudence and investment.

And it's clearly their own fault that money management has never applied to anyone in their lives ever.

dfx-

dfx- wrote: »

It can be very difficult to manage finances. People who live beyond their means may well do so whether they are on €100 a week or €100,000 a week. If they have more, they'll spend more.

If you're reckless with your cash, try to dodge tax, gamble it away, or put all your eggs in one basket, well that's just tough.

gosplan wrote: »

Pah, all these working class people brought from a world of hand to mouth to a false world of endless resources should clearly have MY sensible middle-class attitude towards financial prudence and investment.

And it's clearly their own fault that money management has never applied to anyone in their lives ever.

Take Fowler, he's as working class as you get, and yet he made tens of millions because he invested properly.

Class has little to do with it. Sure wasn't it middle class of Ireland that lost their bóllocks after the crash.

Greed doesn't care what social class you belong to

Dirty Dingus McGee

gosplan wrote: »

Pah, all these working class people brought from a world of hand to mouth to a false world of endless resources should clearly have MY sensible middle-class attitude towards financial prudence and investment.

And it's clearly their own fault that money management has never applied to anyone in their lives ever.

Perhaps people who come from poor backgrounds should be even more appreciative if they happen to become a millionaire overnight as they've seen how tough life can be without money.Its hard to have much sympathy for someone who pisses loads of money away regardless of how poor they may have been in the past.

It doesn't take a lot of effort to save a good bit of money if you happen to be a professional sportsman.Surely they are intelligent enough to realise they a short career but will have to live for a long while on any money they earn during their career.

CSF

Its funny seeing this thread and the Footballers You Met And How Were They thread as the top 2 on the forum.

Hilarious that the general consensus on here is one of resentment for the huge sums that these people have accumulated and the extravagant lifestyles they enjoy as a result, but we'd still be horrified if one of these guys didn't want to talk to us in a pub.

gosplan

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Perhaps people who come from poor backgrounds should be even more appreciative if they happen to become a millionaire overnight as they've seen how tough life can be without money.Its hard to have much sympathy for someone who pisses loads of money away regardless of how poor they may have been in the past.

It doesn't take a lot of effort to save a good bit of money if you happen to be a professional sportsman.Surely they are intelligent enough to realise they a short career but will have to live for a long while on any money they earn during their career.

Fair enough but I think if you take any teenager and start paying him tens of thousands a week, the chances of him ever appreciating money are very very slim.

What are we saying though? They all deserve it?

70% of NFL players were just greedy?

There's clearly a root cause that goes beyond just blaming te guys and calling them idiots.

Blue giant

gosplan wrote: »

Fair enough but I think if you take any teenager and start paying him tens of thousands a week, the chances of him ever appreciating money are very very slim

I think this I a huge point. Take for example that Norwegian lad odegaard who signed for Real Madrid during the week. There are some reports saying he will be paid €80,000 a week. Now I'm not sure if that figure is correct and doubt it is. He would probably be doing his junior cert here. Can you imagine giving some lad here that age even €1,000 per week. The last thing on his mind would be saving it.

Blue giant

Blue giant wrote: »

I think this I a huge point. Take for example that Norwegian lad odegaard who signed for Real Madrid during the week. There are some reports saying he will be paid €80,000 a week. Now I'm not sure if that figure is correct and doubt it is. He would probably be doing his junior cert here. Can you imagine giving some lad here that age even €1,000 per week. The last thing on his mind would be saving it.

Surely a club as big as Real Madrid can offer financial advice for the guy. I'd be shocked if they don't.

Also, assuming they are alive, his parents would surely be able to lend a hand.

Grown men not able to control their finances. God love them

gosplan

rarnes1 wrote: »

Surely a club as big as Real Madrid can offer financial advice for the guy. I'd be shocked if they don't.

Also, assuming they are alive, his parents would surely be able to lend a hand.

Grown men not able to control their finances. God love them

But you have to consider that there's a reason footballers are less able to control their finances than other people.

Just blaming them is kind of standard irish begrudgery.

I mean how come you could take a person who works on the average industrial wage and if you have them the same money, they'd be far less likely to mess it up.

If you we're signed at the age of 12 by a premiership club, how good would your management of life's challenges be?

SantryRed

Talib Fiasco wrote: »

Something people tend to forget a lot is that when a famous sports star retires from their sport their life and personality is altered massively. They no longer have that adrenalin rush from their sport. They no longer have the millions of fans roaring their name. They no longer have their face all over television and magazines. It is a massive shock to the system. Many turn to gambling, drugs and other stuff in order to fill that void. It's crazy how multi millionaires can go broke so quickly but it is not hard to believe at all.

You make it sound like it's a large minority of people who do this. The main reason why many professionals go broke is because they live as if they're going to earn the same money for the rest of their lives. Suddenly, the income stream of a million or two per year is gone and they're still paying mental money for a big house and the expenses that come into it too.

gosplan

gosplan wrote: »

But you have to consider that there's a reason footballers are less able to control their finances than other people.

Just blaming them is kind of standard irish begrudgery.

I mean how come you could take a person who works on the average industrial wage and if you have them the same money, they'd be far less likely to mess it up.

If you we're signed at the age of 12 by a premiership club, how good would your management of life's challenges be?

Begrudgery is certainly isn't.

Ok, tell me why most of them can control their finances?

I know people my own age that are a disaster with money too, we all do. Living beyond your means etc

On your last point, no idea, but I'd hope to be able to do basic maths. If not I'd pay someone to do it.

It's estimated David James earned £25m in his career.

Now bankrupt.

Dirty Dingus McGee

gosplan wrote: »

Fair enough but I think if you take any teenager and start paying him tens of thousands a week, the chances of him ever appreciating money are very very slim.

What are we saying though? They all deserve it?

70% of NFL players were just greedy?

There's clearly a root cause that goes beyond just blaming te guys and calling them idiots.

They'd appreciate money if they used their heads or got some decent advice from their family etc.I'm sure club management in most big soccer clubs could recommend a decent financial adviser and offer advice to young players who sign big contracts. Surely anyone who is starting a career in sport knows it isn't going to last and although it's bound to be tempting for young players to spend like there is no tomorrow when they get a big contract I can't see someone losing millions when there is no need to as anything other than idiocy.

There are enough examples of players losing all their money to act as a warning for any pro sportsmen today to save their money and not spend it foolishly, and really it's hard to feel any sympathy for players who blow their fortune when even a tiny bit of sense would have them set for life.

Sanity_Saviour

gosplan wrote: »

But you have to consider that there's a reason footballers are less able to control their finances than other people.

Just blaming them is kind of standard irish begrudgery.

I mean how come you could take a person who works on the average industrial wage and if you have them the same money, they'd be far less likely to mess it up.

If you we're signed at the age of 12 by a premiership club, how good would your management of life's challenges be?

I wouldn't take any heed of that posters posts, it's a classical example of refusing to do any perspective taking. It's very easy to look at it on paper and say "Oh they have lots of money, they should have saved it all...how hard is it to manage finance.."boo hoo". It's a known fact that a high proportion of footballers do not come from money, so when your relative income increases substantially, your lifestyle fits in with your new position. If you're earning 50,000 a week and it shows no sign of slowing down, why not buy a Bentley twice a year? However, the same is true for when that does disappear: your cognition doesn't just adapt whenever you want it to and that can very dangerous as we saw in eith Gillespie and David James.

Unfortunately, a common position people take is that "Oh they have lots of money, therefore they have no excuse", which just shows a real lack of intelligence and outright bitterness. It's very common when money is involved. It's also easy to say they should have taken financial advice when it was given to them but I'd the first thing on many new-rich footballers minds in their early 20s isn't saving for the future.

If posters don't want to look like morons, realise everything isn't just black and white.

gosplan

rarnes1 wrote: »

Begrudgery is certainly isn't.

Ok, tell me why most of them can control their finances?

I know people my own age that are a disaster with money too, we all do. Living beyond your means etc

On your last point, no idea, but I'd hope to be able to do basic maths. If not I'd pay someone to do it.

I'm guessing it has something to do with never actually having to consider finances till you're about 40 and maybe not having the most solid background where planning for the long term future is a standard practice.

I mean why would you say a disproportionate amount of sports people end up this way? Are they all greedy?

OnTheCouch

Talib Fiasco wrote: »

Something people tend to forget a lot is that when a famous sports star retires from their sport their life and personality is altered massively. They no longer have that adrenalin rush from their sport. They no longer have the millions of fans roaring their name. They no longer have their face all over television and magazines. It is a massive shock to the system. Many turn to gambling, drugs and other stuff in order to fill that void. It's crazy how multi millionaires can go broke so quickly but it is not hard to believe at all.

Very much so and it must be extremely hard to take, the day after they retire or whatever, them realising that the party is now over. So either they are in demand for punditry positions, (which are still not particularly prevalent), they find another source of income or cut back on their outgoings considerably. The latter option is the most frequent, but also probably the hardest to do when you've been accustomed to such luxuries.

I may be falling slightly into stereotypical ideas here, but also many young footballers from working-class backgrounds come from families where people simply don't save money, either through habit or because they simply cannot. Putting something aside is simply an alien concept, you spend what you make. So even when a footballer earns far far more than he actually requires, this mentality which has been ingrained in him his whole life is hard to shake, unless you are well-advised.

There was something also in the Secret Footballer books about this topic, it was mentioned that it's not as straightforward as one thinks, you are constantly being asked to invest in this and that and you think you will be able to pay off a big house, but in the end your career ends before all your debts are paid. Or something along those lines. Certainly gave the impression that it wasn't all about every footballer being totally reckless with cash.

Blue giant

rarnes1 wrote: »

Grown men not able to control their finances. God love them

I think there's your problem right there. The vast majority of these people are not “grown men" when they get all of this money.