Small Claims Court - monetary value -vs- replacement value?

PDD

Hi Folks,

I have had a few issues lately with a parcel company who it seem's have lost several items that were for me but somehow walked out the door in-transit. I know options are to avail of whatever compensation the company offers or alternatively to bring a claim in the small claims court.

My issue is that if I bring the claim to the small claims court am I limited in claiming the monetary value of the item lost or can I claim an amount that would allow me to replace it? I got a very very good bargain on eBay with an item about a third of its retail price so a claim of equal monetary value will not allow me to replace the item lost by the company.

I've never been through small claim's before so unsure as to what I am able to claim etc and what the courts perspective on the above would be. Any and all input appreciated.

Regards,

Dave

Pat Mustard

If I was in your position, I would check to see if this is a matter that can be dealt with in small claims court:

Type of claims dealt with

(a) a claim for goods or services bought for private use from someone selling them in the course of a business (consumer claims)
(b) a claim for goods or services bought for business use from someone selling them in the course of a business (business claims)
(c) a claim for minor damage to property (but excluding personal injuries)
(d) a claim for the non-return of a rent deposit for certain kinds of rented properties. For example, a holiday home or a room / flat in a premises where the owner also lives provided that a claim does not exceed €2,000.

Do you have contract with the courier company?

FreudianSlippers

Depends on your contract but I'd be fairly sure if it's just a standard eBay transaction you'd only be able to claim the price you paid and shipping costs

GerardKeating

PDD wrote: »

Hi Folks,

I have had a few issues lately with a parcel company who it seem's have lost several items that were for me but somehow walked out the door in-transit. I know options are to avail of whatever compensation the company offers or alternatively to bring a claim in the small claims court.

My issue is that if I bring the claim to the small claims court am I limited in claiming the monetary value of the item lost or can I claim an amount that would allow me to replace it? I got a very very good bargain on eBay with an item about a third of its retail price so a claim of equal monetary value will not allow me to replace the item lost by the company.

I've never been through small claim's before so unsure as to what I am able to claim etc and what the courts perspective on the above would be. Any and all input appreciated.

Regards,

Dave

Can you even take a case against the courier company, your contract is with the seller, you case might be with the seller, and it is for them to sue the courier company, assuming the seller booked/paid for the transit.

PDD

Hi Folks, thanks for the feedback and all the questions. Just to clarify a few things.

@The Mustard: Nope there is no contract, there is simply a set of Terms Of Service. Still covered under consumer act for goods and services without contract or TOS. Or at least thats my understanding. And the service would fall under (a) a claim for goods or services bought for private use from someone selling them in the course of a business (consumer claims).

@FreudianSlippers: I would have to disagree, there is no contract and the obligation to provide service is not the seller it is with the courier company, when the courier company signed for a parcel they took responsibility for it. The seller has done their part by shipping it to the address of the courier company.

@GerardKeating: See above, it would be easier to explain if I could name the company but don't want to do that on a public forum like this. The seller shipped my item to the courier company (their obligations end there) the courier company received the parcel from the seller and was to deliver it to me however it seems to have just walked out the door. I have a the package being signed for by the courier company so they are liable one way or the other.

Yawns

You don't wanna name the company but I'd hazard a guess the ebay seller sent your item to Northern Ireland and from there a courier company was to bring it south. This company has had an awful time of it the last xmas period. If that's the case, then the contract is between you and the courier in this case but I'm not sure how a small claims case would go. Even if you were refunded what you were paid, it will not cover the cost of replacing the item as you got it at a great deal, but that line of thinking could be used about anything and if it were to go to a small claims court, then the most I could see you getting would be what you actually paid.

So it might be easier to go through the company's resolution process and get your money back via them.

Pat Mustard

PDD wrote: »

@The Mustard: Nope there is no contract, there is simply a set of Terms Of Service. Still covered under consumer act for goods and services without contract or TOS. Or at least thats my understanding. And the service would fall under (a) a claim for goods or services bought for private use from someone selling them in the course of a business (consumer claims).

I'm not saying that you have no case against the courier.

I'm saying that you need to be aware of the jurisdiction of the Small Claims Court and you should check if this matter is something that should be in the District Court instead.

Pat Mustard

Yawns wrote: »

You don't wanna name the company but I'd hazard a guess the ebay seller sent your item to Northern Ireland and from there a courier company was to bring it south. This company has had an awful time of it the last xmas period. If that's the case, then the contract is between you and the courier in this case but I'm not sure how a small claims case would go.

This is not how contract law works.

See privity of contract.

PDD

@Yawns: True I may only be able to get the amount that I paid. I can only hope they are going to be reasonable as it's not free for a company to go to court even the small claims court so they generally factor that into the equation for costs etc

@The Mustard: I am certain this is the jurisdiction of the small claims court because a friend took a different courier company to court a few years ago for the same reason (loosing a package) but it was a brand new iPhone and he just wanted it replaced. The entire purpose of the small claims court is to prevent the circuit court from being clogged up with these small cases with what are essentially civil cases hence the upper limit of the amount and low cost to the consumer. I'm not sure why you have mentioned privity of contract - how was anything in Yawns quote bring in a third party other than me and the courier company?

Yawns

The Mustard wrote: »

This is not how contract law works.

See privity of contract.

I was talking about if it was a company such as Parcel Motel for instance. The contract exists between PM and the customer. The customer contract with ebay seller ends when the item is signed for by PM as that transaction is separate and upon delivery is completed. Assuming no defects etc here.

Of course OP hasn't named the company and Parcel Motel are not the only company offering this type of service so it may or may not be them.

Could also just be a regular courier from UK straight to his door for all I know.

FreudianSlippers

PDD wrote: »

@FreudianSlippers: I would have to disagree, there is no contract and the obligation to provide service is not the seller it is with the courier company, when the courier company signed for a parcel they took responsibility for it. The seller has done their part by shipping it to the address of the courier company.

That's your problem though isn't it? The seller, if they failed to ship, could potentially be liable for expectation damages (with huge caveats here in relation to Hadley v Baxendale, etc.) but the shipper almost certainly couldn't have foreseen that their potential negligence would result in them paying out a considerable sum more than the item is "worth". Likely, you'd get reliance damages and put back where you were before you were wronged.

Potentially, if you incurred additional costs in reliance on the item arriving, they could be liable to pay expectation damages.

Pat Mustard

Yawns wrote: »

I was talking about if it was a company such as Parcel Motel for instance. The contract exists between PM and the customer. The customer contract with ebay seller ends when the item is signed for by PM as that transaction is separate and upon delivery is completed. Assuming no defects etc here.

Of course OP hasn't named the company and Parcel Motel are not the only company offering this type of service so it may or may not be them.

Could also just be a regular courier from UK straight to his door for all I know.

Ah, okay, that makes more sense. In any case, the OP has confirmed that he had no contract with the courier company.

FreudianSlippers

The Mustard wrote: »

Ah, okay, that makes more sense. In any case, the OP has confirmed that he had no contract with the courier company.

OP sues seller for breach of contract; seller sues couriers for breach of contract.

Either way, I'd imagine OP is looking at only getting reliance damages

PDD

@FreudianSlippers: reliance damages? I am confused.com

I just want to get what I had ordered but I've a s

@TheMustard: You keep saying that I don't have a contract which I find confusing because even without any kind of noterised contract there is still legislation such as the consumer goods act etc. Or is there something I have missed? I mean ultimately this is a consumer issue, I have purchased a service and a company has failed to deliver on that service in-line with its own Terms Of Service.

FreudianSlippers

PDD wrote: »

@FreudianSlippers: reliance damages? I am confused.com

I just want to get what I had ordered but I've a s

@TheMustard: You keep saying that I don't have a contract which I find confusing because even without any kind of noterised contract there is still legislation such as the consumer goods act etc. Or is there something I have missed? I mean ultimately this is a consumer issue, I have purchased a service and a company has failed to deliver on that service in-line with its own Terms Of Service.

It really depends on what the item is, but reliance damages means you would only really be entitled to get the money you spent back.

PDD

The item was a rucksack, new from factory they cost 180GBP and I managed to pick one up for 60GBP in an auction.

28064212

PDD wrote: »

I have purchased a service and a company has failed to deliver on that service in-line with its own Terms Of Service.

Did you pay the courier or did the seller?

PDD

@28064212: The seller on eBay paid for postage which was signed Royal Mail post, this delivered the package to the courier companies depot in Northern Ireland for which it was signed for. It was then the courier companies responsibility to deliver the package to me but the item went missing from their depot.

28064212

PDD wrote: »

@28064212: The seller on eBay paid for postage which was signed Royal Mail post, this delivered the package to the courier companies depot in Northern Ireland for which it was signed for. It was then the courier companies responsibility to deliver the package to me but the item went missing from their depot.

Did you pay the courier company in NI or did the seller? If you paid the courier, you may have a case against the courier (and a contract, implied or explicit). If the seller paid the courier, you probably don't

Yawns

Seems like he paid a courier company to bring it down from Northern Ireland and they lost it. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Little CuChulainn

PDD wrote: »

@28064212: The seller on eBay paid for postage which was signed Royal Mail post, this delivered the package to the courier companies depot in Northern Ireland for which it was signed for. It was then the courier companies responsibility to deliver the package to me but the item went missing from their depot.

Did you arrange any of this with the courier or was it the seller that arranged for all the delivery?

FreudianSlippers

Yawns wrote: »

Seems like he paid a courier company to bring it down from Northern Ireland and they lost it. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Yep - exactly what he said.

Next person to even attempt to name and shame the courier company gets a ban.