Inspectorate say scrap the garda pulse system..

carzony

It seems the Garda inspectorate has said he would like to see pulse scrapped as it's ''not fit for purpose''.. I wonder will he be listened to :pac::pac:

I know nothing about tecnology lol but I'd say it'd be a nightmare starting a fresh system? After the millions of incidents recorded already...


http://www.thejournal.ie/gardai-domestic-violence-1882500-Jan2015/

POGAN

carzony wrote: »

It seems the Garda inspectorate has said he would like to see pulse scrapped as it's ''not fit for purpose''.. I wonder will he be listened to :pac::pac:

I know nothing about tecnology lol but I'd say it'd be a nightmare starting a fresh system? After the millions of incidents recorded already...


http://www.thejournal.ie/gardai-domestic-violence-1882500-Jan2015/

I wrote a paper in college about getting rid of the pulse system. It's wouldnt that much work to port system to cloud based encryptd system
Problem would be the cost of this would take 3 years to do atleast

carzony

POGAN wrote: »

I wrote a paper in college about getting rid of the pulse system. It's wouldnt that much work to port system to cloud based encryptd system
Problem would be the cost of this would take 3 years to do atleast

No doubt the system will be upgraded eventually though. I'm sure it'll be done anyway.

I think this new DNA database is the beginning of the revamp?

carzony

carzony wrote: »

I think this new DNA database is the beginning of the revamp?

It won't. That Database will be held by the Forensic Science Lab, not AGS.

Locust

carzony wrote: »

I know nothing about tecnology lol but I'd say it'd be a nightmare starting a fresh system? After the millions of incidents recorded already...[/URL]

You certainly couldn't scrap the millions of crime records and information thats already there - i would presume that data would be transferred and uploaded to a new operating system...

cerastes

POGAN wrote: »

I wrote a paper in college about getting rid of the pulse system. It's wouldnt that much work to port system to cloud based encryptd system
Problem would be the cost of this would take 3 years to do atleast

A cloud based system hardly seems appropriate for a national police force? Im not an IT person, but surely the Servers should be physically in control/secured by the Gardai too?

I dont exactly know how much pulse can do, but there must be other systems out there that exist for other police forces that we can use rather than coming up with something from scratch, a system that can record crime details/statistics, schedule staff usage and resources, manage overtime, maintenance of equipment and account for changes in technology/ are adaptable and not a one off standalone setup specifically for us but can also be used to interface internationally with criminal data and activities?
Im not talking CSI graphics, just a modern system with things off the top of my head that I can think the Gardai might need.

chrismon

POGAN wrote: »

I wrote a paper in college about getting rid of the pulse system. It's wouldnt that much work to port system to cloud based encryptd system
Problem would be the cost of this would take 3 years to do atleast

I'm interested to hear why it would take so long.
I'm not poking fun, genuinely interested as someone in IT.

audidiesel

wont hold my breath for it. the computer dispatch system uses dos based command line technology from the early 90's...

pa990

I'm sure that there are plenty of other, more modern police database systems that are equally not fit for purpose, and reaching the end of their life, that can be purchased for a ridiculously insane amount of money.

audidiesel

audidiesel wrote: »

wont hold my breath for it. the computer dispatch system uses dos based command line technology from the early 90's...

That always works though. Nothing wrong with it.

pa990

foreign wrote: »

That always works though. Nothing wrong with it.

pencil and paper work as well,

but sometimes modern technology works better

pa990

pa990 wrote: »

pencil and paper work as well,

but sometimes modern technology works better

I know. It could be integrated in any new system, I'm just saying that it does the job it is supposed to do. Very rare for there to be downtime with that system too.

carzony

Locust wrote: »

You certainly couldn't scrap the millions of crime records and information thats already there - i would presume that data would be transferred and uploaded to a new operating system...

An uncle of mine was vetted for a charity fundraiser recently and a court appearance he had from the 1970's appeared.. So I don't think they'll have problems keeping the files :D

I think the most advanced technology introduced so far has been the anpr system for the cars?

irishrgr

Speaking of technology, I don't recall ever seeing an kind of computers in the Garda cars last time I was home. Do they have any? We went to them some time ago, pretty much eliminated most radio traffic, it's all handled on the MDC (Mobile Data Computer). You get the call address, directions, can run criminal histories, reg plates, insurance details, all sorts and then we submit our reports on them too.

The next step is a hand held bar code scanner for traffic tickets. Reads the bar code on driving license, auto populates the ticket, officer fills in the details, prints copy in car on small printer for subject. Saw a trial run of the thing, bloody brilliant, everything is faster, legible and no more losing paper forms.

Surely the Gardaí are moving in this direction?

Paulzx

irishrgr wrote: »

Speaking of technology, I don't recall ever seeing an kind of computers in the Garda cars last time I was home. Do they have any? ?

They won't fit in the 2004 Toyota Yaris

carzony

irishrgr wrote: »

Speaking of technology, I don't recall ever seeing an kind of computers in the Garda cars last time I was home.
QUOTE]

A small amount of the traffic cars have. I think that's a similar system in the picture from Twitter.

Canyon86

you d have to get the likes of accenture/ernst and young involved here to implement the change over/ data transfer,

id imagine this would be a timely and expensive process,

but crucially will need to be done to perfection

bravestar

carzony wrote: »

irishrgr wrote: »

Speaking of technology, I don't recall ever seeing an kind of computers in the Garda cars last time I was home.
QUOTE]

A small amount of the traffic cars have. I think that's a similar system in the picture from Twitter.

That's just an ANPR system, nowhere near the capability irishrgr spoke of.

irishrgr

Ours are set up like this (remember we are one officer units), it's a Panasonic Tuff Book with a docking station connected through a cellular modem which is encrypted. Has a GPS function, gives directions to calls, your location, shows other units in the area. Linked into the state & federal data bases for number plates, criminal history, licenses, etc. Really has made life easier on the street, you can run plates, people without having to tie up the airwaves.

The database is run by the feds and the state police, it's subject to the usual data protections of course and is housed on various server farms around the country. Some discussion of making it cloud based but security seems to be the concern (I'm not an IT guy, so I don't know if that's an issue or not). It's near real time for warrants, persons, etc. The paperless reports are great too, detectives can look them up easily, spell check, legible, easy to attach digital pictures from the scene, etc.

Now each agency is responsible for storing it's own data from cameras, etc. That's a growing field, we keep video for felonies for 50 years, (yes all the VHS tapes were converted) and a sliding scale for lesser offenses. With the renewed interest in body cameras, that poses another data storage challenge for us.

Do the Gardaí even use car video cameras, let alone personal ones? FYI, the car set up for wiring, emergency lights, radios, & kit is $17000 on top of the car itself excluding the laptop. Not exactly cheap are they?

A

gerire

irishrgr wrote: »

Ours are set up like this (remember we are one officer units), it's a Panasonic Tuff Book with a docking station connected through a cellular modem which is encrypted. Has a GPS function, gives directions to calls, your location, shows other units in the area. Linked into the state & federal data bases for number plates, criminal history, licenses, etc. Really has made life easier on the street, you can run plates, people without having to tie up the airwaves.

The database is run by the feds and the state police, it's subject to the usual data protections of course and is housed on various server farms around the country. Some discussion of making it cloud based but security seems to be the concern (I'm not an IT guy, so I don't know if that's an issue or not). It's near real time for warrants, persons, etc. The paperless reports are great too, detectives can look them up easily, spell check, legible, easy to attach digital pictures from the scene, etc.

Now each agency is responsible for storing it's own data from cameras, etc. That's a growing field, we keep video for felonies for 50 years, (yes all the VHS tapes were converted) and a sliding scale for lesser offenses. With the renewed interest in body cameras, that poses another data storage challenge for us.

Do the Gardaí even use car video cameras, let alone personal ones? FYI, the car set up for wiring, emergency lights, radios, & kit is $17000 on top of the car itself excluding the laptop. Not exactly cheap are they?

A

This is a dream

We could have used some of the tetra functions to receive address as a start. The problem is too many systems that do not talk to each other.

I could easily see it taking 3 years and a few hundred million as you'd need to bring in sap or IBM or equivalent to manage and implement, doubt there is enough of the required expertise in house.
That's just to change over, the cars don't have dash cams or internal cameras. Let alone the interest to bring in all the tech too. We're light years behind and it's all money.

Similarly this doesn't include members not being properly equipped or uniform there are a lot of issues out there

Stheno

Locust wrote: »

You certainly couldn't scrap the millions of crime records and information thats already there - i would presume that data would be transferred and uploaded to a new operating system...

Is there any reason why it could not run in parallel with a new system? I.e have an interface between the two that would search both or do so on the basis of date parameters?

Victor

carzony wrote: »

I know nothing about tecnology lol but I'd say it'd be a nightmare starting a fresh system? After the millions of incidents recorded already...

You need to separate computer software, e.g. Microsoft Excel and the database behind it, e.g. a single spreadsheet.

cerastes

Stheno wrote: »

Is there any reason why it could not run in parallel with a new system? I.e have an interface between the two that would search both or do so on the basis of date parameters?

I think this would have to be the case running something in parallel until a replacement system was up and running, which could take years really, aside from doing some kind of survey to determine what is needed, but not solely from inside the gardai, input from users yes, but I doubt there is the expertise to even know what they might need or how it could be used.

Run it in parallel where the new system can pull the information from the old system or have some other system to do that while the new system runs.

I think a system designed and built based on existing designs from some other law enforcement organisation that can be modified to suit specific gardai needs, cant see how that would be too much. Why re invent the wheel, surely there is some private organisation that has done this before and multi millions doesnt need to be spent in some other "local" organisation that has never done it before, where millions would be spent before they even determine dwhat the requirements would be.

yuloni

This post has been deleted.

POGAN

carzony wrote: »

irishrgr wrote: »

Speaking of technology, I don't recall ever seeing an kind of computers in the Garda cars last time I was home.
QUOTE]

A small amount of the traffic cars have. I think that's a similar system in the picture from Twitter.

Anpr is so limited MDT system would be next step for them but I don't think pulse could take it and internet in country areas in awful still. Only way check is with control again limited information to the member on the street

Handheld finger print terminals once the finger print database is sorted

BaronVon

yuloni wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

TBF, the Inspectorate report isn't exactly fact or research based. A couple of ex-polis went around, looked at things, spoke to some Guards. They then visitied a few other police forces, saw what they did, and then wrote a report based on their opinion, with very little facts to back it up, or specific recommendations as to how to improve it.

That quote you mentioned is typical of the kind of detail from the report.

infacteh

infacteh wrote: »

TBF, the Inspectorate report isn't exactly fact or research based. A couple of ex-polis went around, looked at things, spoke to some Guards. They then visitied a few other police forces, saw what they did, and then wrote a report based on their opinion, with very little facts to back it up, or specific recommendations as to how to improve it.

That quote you mentioned is typical of the kind of detail from the report.

Yup, because findings from people using the system is not enough.

BaronVon

foreign wrote: »

Yup, because findings from people using the system is not enough.

I'm not saying the findings are wrong, I just find the methods emplayed are somewhat questionable, and the recommendations lack sufficent detail, imo.

There's very little in it that mules haven't said already!

infacteh

infacteh wrote: »

I'm not saying the findings are wrong, I just find the methods emplayed are somewhat questionable, and the recommendations lack sufficent detail, imo.

There's very little in it that mules haven't said already!

But finally the government have to listen. Whett they do anything? That remains to be seen.

FGR

If the Government is serious about reform they will implement everything suggested by the Inspectorate. Some things I disagree with but can see their view point; however 99% of the report I agree with.

Given that this is Ireland however I have no doubt that things are only going to get worse.

irishrgr

You lads nailed it, it comes back to govt policy. it seesm historically the govt attitude to crime has been "hire more gardai" as opposed to creating more capacity in the force. AGS owns part of this too, institutional resistance to any changes. In the 21st century, the lack of in IT in AGS is appalling.


Don't get me wrong, we struggle with the same issues. Our dispatching/mapping/call taking software is 15 plus years old and is being maintained by the City IT dept (not the vendor), so it's endless patches, add on's and work arounds.


But it's a sunk cost, we own it and it would cost millions to start over, so we'll keep plodding along until it becomes ineffective, then spend millions to get a less than state of the art system upgrade. It's the dilemma of public sector IT. By the time an agency decides what capability it needs, gets it approved, gets it in the budget, goes through the tender process and actually buys one, it can take three years. In the IT world it's ancient by then.


Within our system it flows like this:


- dispatched on call with one system

- enter data into database, name, address, call type, call times, various codes, etc (all manually), data base won't talk to dispatch system

- open Word, write report narrative, cut/paste onto notepad on desktop, cut/paste narrative into report system (won't accept Word docs)

- open Outlook, email narrative to SGT for approval/review, once approved, save to agency report system )which won't talk to other systems).

- enter shorter narrative into dispatch system to close call (because you can't attach anything to the dispatch system)

- email report to jail printer (in the vain hope it's working). Save report to thumb drive, take prisoner to jail.

- fill manual booking forms (pen/paper), if printer not working, use thumb drive to re-print forms for jail.

- fill out evidence forms (pen/paper), turn in to station at end of shift. If using video evidence from car camera, meet SGT at station to upload relevant video to video system (we cant access the video hard drives in our cars, only SGT's & above).

- email detective name & info of video file using Outlook (but not actual file, too big for email servers)

- bang head against wall, wash, rinse, repeat......


I'm sure there is a better way, but it's not here and I'm sure it's cheaper (not really)....