Any excuse to get into a pair of Budgie Smugglers

Steroo

Hi All,
2015 is my year of starting Triathlon. I've signed up for Ironman 70.3 Dublin.
Experience so far: Ran Dublin Marathon in 2012 in a time of 4:16. I wanted to improve so got into a more advanced training plan for 2013 & ran a Half Marathon in 1:38 and just before the Target Marathon I hit injury big time!
So 2014 was all about recovery for me & strengthening my Legs & Core.

I've been back running since November & the longest run I've done is 7 Miles. I think I'll have to convert my thinking to KM's for this log?

I've invested in a new bike - first road bike for me - I had a hybrid before & used it for commuting & short leisurely spins so nothing serious or over 30 Miles to date.

I spent a lot of time in 2014 learning to swim. I can't even say I learned as a child.. I did lessons like everyone but never managed a length without feeling like I was going to die. So I've done 3 terms in NAC as Improver - Intermediate - Advanced. The end result is I can swim up & down & form is okay but still not great. Still struggling with Breathing over 50m distances without a break.

Last week I joined a local Tri Club & started the swim sessions twice a week, with coaching. So far it's great & feels like the push I need. I'm the weakest in the group but I'm thinking I have a few months to work on that. I also got the Swimsmooth book from Santa & it's a great help.

I'm doing this because I never believed I could. Also upon witnessing the Ironman Lanzarote on HOlidays in 2012 I was truly inspired. I would like to do a full IM in the coming years depending on how this year goes of course.

I have access to NAC at lunchtime each day so I use the Gym & Pool.

I'm currently getting out about twice a week for short runs & haven't yet taken the bike on a decent spin... I'm blaming the winter.

So I'll start to keep record & monitor progress here. It helped big time for Marathon training.

So as ever I'm wide open to & would be appreciate any Feedback & tips along the way from you guys who've been there & done it... or those just learning like myself.

First Question - Should I get budgie Smugglers for the pool?

tang1

Best of luck with the log Ste, nice to see you the otherside of the injuries.

sconhome

Best of luck with the goals this year.

Any self respecting triathlete would only wear jammers in the pool. Budgie smugglers are for the aul lads who hang around the sauna!

Steroo

AKW wrote: »

Best of luck with the goals this year.

Any self respecting triathlete would only wear jammers in the pool. Budgie smugglers are for the aul lads who hang around the sauna!

I'm not an oul lad but I do like the Sauna

Enlighten me, what are jammers? In my house this means Tampons lmao

... Okay a quick google & I'm enlightened... I'll get some

career move

Good luck dude. I'll be keeping watch ..... just to see how many of the others come over here on the sly

( cough cough *Tang* )

Stone Deaf 4evr

Steroo wrote: »

I'm not an oul lad but I do like the Sauna

Enlighten me, what are jammers? In my house this means Tampons lmao

lol, you can use one of them too but it wont help performance!

think the type of trunks daniel craig wore in his first bond movie.

tunney

AKW wrote: »

Best of luck with the goals this year.

Any self respecting triathlete would only wear jammers in the pool. Budgie smugglers are for the aul lads who hang around the sauna!

Lets play spot the lad with the tiny weener.

sconhome

Jammers go to the knee. #justsaying

MojoMaker

Yeah that 007 attire is Aquashorts, which are fine if you have the build, if not then definitely jammers.

Budgie smugglers definitely for the auld lads!

Steroo

MojoMaker wrote: »

Yeah that 007 attire is Aquashorts, which are fine if you have the build, if not then definitely jammers.

Budgie smugglers definitely for the auld lads!

Ok Ok spot the newbie... I'll order a pair online this evening! I can feel the drag from my shorts when I kick off the wall so at least that'll be sorted.

tunney

Steroo wrote: »

Ok Ok spot the newbie... I'll order a pair online this evening! I can feel the drag from my shorts when I kick off the wall so at least that'll be sorted.

Being honest being a total newbie you are probably lacking in kit and overwhelmed in what you need for swimming.

You need a buoy buoy
http://gottarun.ie/index.php?rt=product/product&path=65&product_id=391

A kick board
http://gottarun.ie/index.php?rt=product/product&path=65&product_id=392

And a good hat
http://gottarun.ie/index.php?rt=product/product&path=65&product_id=292
(why the hat - cold irish water means you double up on hats and the ones they give you in races are usually crappy plastic ones - a good silicone under one of them makes a world of difference)

Some fins as well

Really this is probably what you want
http://gottarun.ie/index.php?rt=product/product&path=65&product_id=390

and add in the hat.

Being honest it sounds like you have your work cut out for you in the swim as if you struggle to swim more than 50m then you are not yet able to swim. Swim regularly, look for advice, listen to it. Its an uphill battle but achievable.

tunney

tunney wrote: »

Being honest being a total newbie you are probably lacking in kit and overwhelmed in what you need for swimming.

You need a buoy buoy
http://gottarun.ie/index.php?rt=product/product&path=65&product_id=391

A kick board
http://gottarun.ie/index.php?rt=product/product&path=65&product_id=392

And a good hat
http://gottarun.ie/index.php?rt=product/product&path=65&product_id=292
(why the hat - cold irish water means you double up on hats and the ones they give you in races are usually crappy plastic ones - a good silicone under one of them makes a world of difference)

Some fins as well

Really this is probably what you want
http://gottarun.ie/index.php?rt=product/product&path=65&product_id=390

and add in the hat.

Being honest it sounds like you have your work cut out for you in the swim as if you struggle to swim more than 50m then you are not yet able to swim. Swim regularly, look for advice, listen to it. Its an uphill battle but achievable.

Oh and the jammers

http://gottarun.ie/index.php?rt=product/product&path=65_94&product_id=544

Steroo

tunney wrote: »

Being honest being a total newbie you are probably lacking in kit and overwhelmed in what you need for swimming.

You need a buoy buoy
http://gottarun.ie/index.php?rt=product/product&path=65&product_id=391

A kick board
http://gottarun.ie/index.php?rt=product/product&path=65&product_id=392

And a good hat
http://gottarun.ie/index.php?rt=product/product&path=65&product_id=292
(why the hat - cold irish water means you double up on hats and the ones they give you in races are usually crappy plastic ones - a good silicone under one of them makes a world of difference)

Some fins as well

Really this is probably what you want
http://gottarun.ie/index.php?rt=product/product&path=65&product_id=390

and add in the hat.

Being honest it sounds like you have your work cut out for you in the swim as if you struggle to swim more than 50m then you are not yet able to swim. Swim regularly, look for advice, listen to it. Its an uphill battle but achievable.

Thanks for all that. Much appreciated. I had a buoy & new hat in mind alright.
I just need a little break after 50m... this morning I did a warm up 150m. then 8 x 50m. then some kick drills. Then some sprinting.
But I hear ya.... I'm under no illusion that I've plenty of work to do.
I was thinking of swimming 5 days next week... incorporating drills etc. I have the time so will hopefully make it happen.

tunney

Steroo wrote: »

Thanks for all that. Much appreciated. I had a buoy & new hat in mind alright.
I just need a little break after 50m... this morning I did a warm up 150m.

The need for a little break means, at the very least, your balance and breathing are very bad.

Steroo wrote: »

then 8 x 50m. then some kick drills. Then some sprinting.

Why the sprints? Being blunt these would be worse than staying in bed. You need to learn to swim first. Technique, not speed and strength, are your issue.

Steroo wrote: »

But I hear ya.... I'm under no illusion that I've plenty of work to do.
I was thinking of swimming 5 days next week... incorporating drills etc. I have the time so will hopefully make it happen.

5 days a week isn't a bad idea. thats what I did in 2004 when I started to learn to swim.

I think its best to work off the belief that you cannot swim and that is what you are trying to learn to do - not get better at swimming, you are learning to swim. A suitable change in mindset but one that would stop you doing silly things like sprints when you cannot swim 100m comfortably.

Steroo

tunney wrote: »

Why the sprints? Being blunt these would be worse than staying in bed. You need to learn to swim first. Technique, not speed and strength, are your issue.

It was just part of the Tri club session so finish us off... not my idea!
I was told it would improve fitness.
I take all your advice on board there. A few big weeks of Swimming ahead with the new gear & drills & focus on technique etc.

tunney

Steroo wrote: »

It was just part of the Tri club session so finish us off... not my idea!
I was told it would improve fitness.
I take all your advice on board there. A few big weeks of Swimming ahead with the new gear & drills & focus on technique etc.

And that is the problem with tri club sessions.

Steroo

tunney wrote: »

And that is the problem with tri club sessions.

Ok so is it that they are not ideal for the likes of me?
I will get into Kurts 'swimming for tri beginners' session from Monday.
One on one leasons a good idea?

RedRunner

Best of luck with the new goals Ste. Delighted you are over the worst of your injuries. So are you waxing now?:pac:

Kurt Godel

Steroo wrote: »

So I've done 3 terms in NAC as Improver - Intermediate - Advanced. The end result is I can swim up & down & form is okay but still not great. Still struggling with Breathing over 50m distances without a break.

WTF? They let you move on from improver when you can't swim over 50m without a break? And... "advanced"? That's nuts. The six-year-olds at our local pool have to be able to swim 200m straight before they can progress beyond the most basic beginner level.

You need to look elsewhere for lessons. Getting one-on-one would be useful, there's gotta be some major limiter if you need a break after 50m after all those lessons.

I'm baffled by this?!?

Steroo

Kurt Godel wrote: »

WTF? They let you move on from improver when you can't swim over 50m without a break? And... "advanced"? That's nuts. The six-year-olds at our local pool have to be able to swim 200m straight before they can progress beyond the most basic beginner level.

You need to look elsewhere for lessons. Getting one-on-one would be useful, there's gotta be some major limiter if you need a break after 50m after all those lessons.

I'm baffled by this?!?

So am I. The intermediate class is done in 15m pool shallow so it's nit great, with a good kick you're across half way. So it's not great. Anyone can sign up for any class.

I've just read the drills in swim smooth appendix A. I'll be getting stuck into them next week. My breathing is really holding me back and it's the reason I didn't take part in your thread to date. But it's probably due to poor technique and anxiety in the water.

Kurt Godel

Steroo wrote: »

My breathing is really holding me back and it's the reason I didn't take part in your thread to date. But it's probably due to poor technique and anxiety in the water.

You've done the right thing, you've gone for lessons (plenty of DublinHIM newbies won't), they just haven't worked for you. To be honest the coaches shouldn't allow that progression flowchart if a swimmer can't master the basics. I can't believe any coach worth their salt would allow someone who struggles to breath after 50m to progress without helping them further. You were let down badly by them. Imagine a "learn to Bike" course where "Intermediate-Advanced" had to stop for breath every 500m?

Every swimmer needs to feel comfortable with being able to breath in the water, before they can make further progress, so that should be your starting point. One of the first lessons on the Swim for Beginners thread was about breathing (see here), maybe have a read through that or ask on that thread and others might suggest what worked for them. Anxiety will tense you up and hinder breathing, so get over that ASAP.

griffin100

Just to add to everything Kurt has said, Dublin HIM is an open water swim, anxiety in the pool will mean blind panic in the sea with hundreds of swimmers around you. Once you are comfortable in the pool you should get as much OW swimming experience as possible in your wetsuit (when it warms up a bit obviously )

tunney

Steroo wrote: »

Ok so is it that they are not ideal for the likes of me?
I will get into Kurts 'swimming for tri beginners' session from Monday.
One on one leasons a good idea?

An analogy if you will (yes MM analogy has the word anal in it)
I go running every day with my five year old and three year old. 500m-1km depending. They love it and insist on it. I have a 3 month old. I *could* bring him running too if I wanted. That would entail leaving him lying on the concrete of the footpath as obviously he cannot crawl never mind run. This is what the coaches are doing to you.

There are two types of coaches - one will tell you what you want to hear, so you feel great and you feel like you are making progess. Two things happen after this - you don't really make any progress "cause its working, coach said, I don't need to try harder". The second thing that will happen will you will keep coming back and giving them your money. The second type will tell you what you need to hear.

Before you think you are being attacked here by some posters this is not the intention of any of us. As had been said it is admirable that you are doing something about your weaknesses now as opposed to 12 weeks out (yeah looking at you over there). Going from 0-1900m OW in a year is possible. I know Kurt hates the idea, and I'm not convinced its the best idea for longevity in the sport but it is possible. I even know someone that did it. He swam 4-5 times a week every week - just 15-20 minutes at a time to start. Long enough to get a feel for the water but stopping before he was reinforcing bad habits. He asked for help from experienced swimmers and triathletes and did what he was told.

Swim regularly, ask for help, listen to people but be weary of advice target at groups.

Two things to remember about swimming
1) On the bike and run the gains come somewhat linearly, in swimming its much more step like. Nothing for ages, improve a good bit, nothing for ages, improve a good bit.........
2) Breathing is not what is holding your swimming back, breathing is swimming.

MojoMaker

Great advice so far. All I would add is that good swimming technique can come relatively quickly. You'll know it when it happens because your relationship with the water will fundamentally change, and it is a great feeling - which - bit like riding a bike - should never leave you (although technique can "go off" a little if you don't swim regularly or don't focus on keeping bad habits out). Most tri club sessions will assume you can swim and their purpose is to make the swimmers present faster. Some tri swim coaches have more traditional perspectives and focus on make their swimmers slow down in order to reach the right form, lock in that form, and then speed up over time. This cycle is usually measured in months than weeks, but not necessarily years (the good news).

It's a wonderful feeling when it clicks for the first time, much more of an "ah ha" moment than cracking good technique on the bike or the run (both obviously equally important for different reasons).

Drills done slowly and with the right swim aids are the best way to capture correct form so persevere through this period and I virtually guarantee you will see astonishing results pretty quickly. The very best of luck with this - and remember, good times are ahead.

Steroo

I'm very glad of all the feedback to date here - Thanks. No fear of me interpreting any of it as an attack at all. It's obviously what I need to hear at this stage.

My head is spinning a little but I will be putting a plan in place over the weekend. Using Props. Working on drills - no more swimming up & down hoping the breathing penny drops. And I'm going to put my usual daily strength training on hold & swim as much as I can for at least a few weeks until we find progress. Also going to hire a one on one Tri swim instructor once a week to start & get some tips/feedback I think.

Today for the first time my shoulder is aching.... probably upset it at yesterdays tri club swim.

Am I right then to take from this that maybe I should skip the Tri club sessions for a while.... or still go & talk to the coach about working solely on drills & technique (although if I'm sharing a lane this won't work maybe).

tunney

Steroo wrote: »

I'm very glad of all the feedback to date here - Thanks. No fear of me interpreting any of it as an attack at all. It's obviously what I need to hear at this stage.

My head is spinning a little but I will be putting a plan in place over the weekend. Using Props. Working on drills - no more swimming up & down hoping the breathing penny drops. And I'm going to put my usual daily strength training on hold & swim as much as I can for at least a few weeks until we find progress. Also going to hire a one on one Tri swim instructor once a week to start & get some tips/feedback I think.

Today for the first time my shoulder is aching.... probably upset it at yesterdays tri club swim.

Am I right then to take from this that maybe I should skip the Tri club sessions for a while.... or still go & talk to the coach about working solely on drills & technique (although if I'm sharing a lane this won't work maybe).

Mods this is obviously a troll.

Someone doing Dublin 70.30 who acknowledges weakness?
Who accepts advice as it was intended? Realistic and helpful.
Seriously - someone doing Dublin 70.30 who accepts that they have work to do and isn't gods gift? Not credible. The OP has just taken this too far.


(In all seriousness others in the same boat would do well to take a leaf out of the OPs book rather than staying on their high horse rather than getting off and getting in the pool and thinking that doing one/two sprints and olympics makes them an expert)

tunney

Steroo wrote: »

I'm very glad of all the feedback to date here - Thanks. No fear of me interpreting any of it as an attack at all. It's obviously what I need to hear at this stage.

My head is spinning a little but I will be putting a plan in place over the weekend. Using Props. Working on drills - no more swimming up & down hoping the breathing penny drops. And I'm going to put my usual daily strength training on hold & swim as much as I can for at least a few weeks until we find progress. Also going to hire a one on one Tri swim instructor once a week to start & get some tips/feedback I think.

Ask for opinions on the tri swim instructor. Odds are someone will know of them.

Steroo wrote: »

Today for the first time my shoulder is aching.... probably upset it at yesterdays tri club swim.

Shoulder pain is common in starting to swim. Usually from utilising the small muscles in your shoulders (deltoids) rather than the huge muscles in your back (lats) and chest (pecs). Comes back to form and technique but should pass. However do not ignore shoulder pain!

Steroo wrote: »

Am I right then to take from this that maybe I should skip the Tri club sessions for a while.... or still go & talk to the coach about working solely on drills & technique (although if I'm sharing a lane this won't work maybe).

Ask the coach does he have a plan for dealing with people at your level.

griffin100

If you are getting shoulder pain then think about hand entry. A lot of newbies tend to enter thumb first with palms facing outward - this can cause shoulder pain.

Steroo

Anyone know if this is any good?

http://www.nationalaquaticcentre.ie/Triathlontech.php

Oryx

In my case a lot of shoulder issues came from crossing my arm over my centre line.

Lots of luck op, it seems you are going about this the right way. I hope you get hooked.

And one addtional note: youve already been advised on the auld budgie smugglers. Just know they are incredibly distracting for your fellow female swimmers. I hope that influences your decision on what to wear.

mossym

Oryx wrote: »

Just know they are incredibly distracting for your fellow female swimmers. .

and that applies both when the man can and can't pull them off..:)

Oryx

Poor choice of words there, mossy

Steroo

Jammers & the full swim prop kit & bag ordered & en route...

mossym

Oryx wrote: »

Poor choice of words there, mossy

par for the course really

tunney

mossym wrote: »

and that applies both when the man can and can't pull them off..:)

yesterday you were "popping lads off" and now you are pulling them off.........

mossym

tunney wrote: »

yesterday you were "popping lads off" and now you are pulling them off.........

indeed. as i said, par for the course. i'm giving up

Trig1

Steroo wrote: »

I'm very glad of all the feedback to date here - Thanks. No fear of me interpreting any of it as an attack at all. It's obviously what I need to hear at this stage.

My head is spinning a little but I will be putting a plan in place over the weekend. Using Props. Working on drills - no more swimming up & down hoping the breathing penny drops. And I'm going to put my usual daily strength training on hold & swim as much as I can for at least a few weeks until we find progress. Also going to hire a one on one Tri swim instructor once a week to start & get some tips/feedback I think.

Today for the first time my shoulder is aching.... probably upset it at yesterdays tri club swim.

Am I right then to take from this that maybe I should skip the Tri club sessions for a while.... or still go & talk to the coach about working solely on drills & technique (although if I'm sharing a lane this won't work maybe).

Don't forget to get on that Bike, a 90k cycle is no laughing matter especially after a 1.9k swim, and this is where you make up (or lose) most time.. word of advice- invest in a turbo trainer- it will be your best friend during the winter months of Jan,Feb,Mar,Apr

Steroo

Does anyone know bjorn who coaches in national aquatic centre? Hoping to get him for some one on one

Steroo

Week ending 18th Jan:

Mon - 40 mins Core at lunch + 4mile Run in Eve
Tue - Morning Tri Club Swim 45mins (focus on bringing arms back closer to head & kicks) + Upper Body Weights at lunch
Wed - rest
Thu - Morning Tri club swim 45 mins (focus on body roll & kick from hips) + 40 Mins Leg Strength at Lunch
Fri - Rest
Sat - 4mile Run
Sun - Manflu ;(

Plan for this week once manflu leaves me is to swim swim swim Drills. And organise one on one coaching. Also to talk to the Tri Coach about my goals & how we might get there.

I might have a go at Raheny 5 Mile Race on Sunday - it would be my first race in about 18 months so I'd be taking it handy.

Also signed up for an indoor Triathlon in Clondalkin Leisure Centre on 15 Feb - Sprint distance. Pool 750m - Spin Bikes 20K - Ourdoor Run 5K

joey100

Does anyone know bjorn who coaches in national aquatic centre? Hoping to get him for some one on one

As far as I know Bjorn doesn't work in the aquatic centre. Works now for T.I as part of the Paralympic coaching. He could still offer the lessons in the aquatic centre but wouldn't be 100% sure. Could probably contact him through T.I if you wanted.

Steroo

joey100 wrote: »

As far as I know Bjorn doesn't work in the aquatic centre. Works now for T.I as part of the Paralympic coaching. He could still offer the lessons in the aquatic centre but wouldn't be 100% sure. Could probably contact him through T.I if you wanted.

Thanks Joey yes I saw something about that online... I have his mobile so I'll call him today to find out!

MojoMaker

Bjorn is a good coach, and yes he still does a few hours here and there in the NAC. Not cheap though so dig in for the long haul!

Steroo

MojoMaker wrote: »

Bjorn is a good coach, and yes he still does a few hours here and there in the NAC. Not cheap though so dig in for the long haul!

Yea we spoke yesterday & he's available alright. €35 half hour/€60 hour. My friend is doing this with me so we might go together & split the cost. I'd be hoping that a couple of sessions would identify what's going wrong with the breathing & get us on track.

I'm also considering doing lessons locally in Trinity Donaghmede pay as you go... haven't been able to do anything this week as I've a bad dose. But I've got my Jammers, PUll Buoy, Kick Board & Fins.

Steroo

Week ending 25th Jan - viral infection all week ;(

Week ending 1st Feb:
Mon - still not feeling well
Tue - Swim (Kurt's thread week 1 session 1)
Wed - Run 4 mile
Thu - Swim (session 2) + 40 mins core workout
Fri - Am Swim with Tri club + 40 Ming Legs workout in Gym
Sat - 9 Mile run avg 9:33/mile on very sore legs!
Sunday - Rest (went to bike shop for cleats/shoes/speedo/tyres)

Meeting Bjorn in NAC today for some coaching

Steroo

Week ending sun 8th:

Mon swim coaching with Bjorn - breathing focus
Tue am club swim session including timed 750m in 20 mins, lunchtime exercise bike 40 mins
Wed swim kurt's week 2 ses 1 45min
Thurs swim kurt's session 2 with swim smooth drills added
Fri: swim am tri club with full coach attention for 45 mins with massive improvements and lessons learned mostly regarding body roll, breathing, kick and pull through.. Plus lunchtime core and legs gym workout
Sat; am 6 mile run 9:04 avg, PM 43k cycle with hills on new clip pedals etc, felt strange but enjoyable.
Sunday; rest

Steroo

Week ending 15 feb:
Mon swim lunchtime drills 45 mins
Tue am tri club swim session and lunchtime core 40 mins
Wed stretch session
Thurs run am 4 miles east and swim lunchtime 45 mins (including 2 100m tt 1:52)
Fri: swim am tri club
Sat rest
Sunday sprint tri event:
pool swim 750m in 20:53
T1 3:45 (what was I doing!)
Cycle 20k spin bikes 38:24
Run 5k 21:48 in the park
Total: 1:24:49

Good experience overall. Had to stop for swim breathers. Cycle was fine. Felt like I was gonna die on the run.
Very well organised by Clondalkin leisure centre

Steroo

Training: week ending 22 feb

Mon : lunch swim drills easy 30 mins
Tue : tri club swim hard session , core workout 40 mins at lunch
Wed ; cycle to work 37km total
Thurs :tri club swim am , gym legs workout and upper body at lunch
Fri: lunch swim drills 45 mins
Sat; cycle 32km run 4m 8:19 avg, brick session
Sunday; rest

Good week overall feel fitness improving. Swimming improving slowly but still struggling with sinky legs and breathing over long sessions

tang1

Nice couple of weeks of training dude, jealous to put it mildly.

Steroo

tang1 wrote: »

Nice couple of weeks of training dude, jealous to put it mildly.

Gettin there tang. How's your running? Have u a log?

tang1

Steroo wrote: »

Gettin there tang. How's your running? Have u a log?

Running is getting there to, "Chasing my old self" is the log. Whats goal race this year, Ironman 70.3 Dublin?

Steroo

tang1 wrote: »

Running is getting there to, "Chasing my old self" is the log. Whats goal race this year, Ironman 70.3 Dublin?

Cool I'll check it out.
Yea that's the goal alright!