Joint or single mortgage application

clintella

Background - I've been living with my partner for six years. Both early thirties, two young kids.

We started off in our relationship earning the same salary. He's still on that salary, I'm now on around 12k more than him. For day-to-day living expenses (rent, childcare, bills) he pays as much as he can each month, and I make up the difference. For the past few years, I've then been putting most of what's left into a savings account for a deposit on a house. To make it clear, we both live very frugally. He may pay less than me towards living expenses, but he pays all he can - he has no disposable income at all most months. And nor do I, after putting away the deposit savings for that month.

So it's come to the point where I have saved approx a 15% deposit. My family have offered to give a gift of enough to bring us up to 20%, if necessary. My financial history is very clean - no unpaid bills, credit card is paid in full each month, regular savings, no outstanding loans and a good history of loan repayments in the past. On the other hand, he's never had a loan or a credit card, but has never gone into overdraft. No savings history, but no unpaid bills or unpaid DDs etc. We both have permanent employment.

My issue is, despite being in a stable long-term relationship, I'm suddenly not sure I feel comfortable getting a joint mortgage when I'm fronting up all of the deposit. I know it's not his fault (well, apart from lack of career motivation), and I know if he had savings, he'd use them for the deposit. I don't know where this sudden pettiness is coming from - after all, I've been paying the biggest share for all of our relationship and never resented doing so.

I estimate that when we get the house, we'll save maybe €300-€500 or so a month in rent. I would be planning on putting that into savings for any unexpected house-related expenses. But, if I get the mortgage in just my own name, I assume I'll be the landlord and he'll be my tenant. That's not going to work - in my head, we'd be equally responsible for household costs, just as we are now. I guess I want to have my cake and eat it - I want us to finally have 'our' house for our family, but I also have this independent streak that's saying, all things being equal, if I saved the deposit, shouldn't it be my house?

Any alternative suggestions? I feel like I'm being petty, and am ready to be ripped apart for even thinking this way.

By the way, our relationship as a whole has had its ups and downs over the years. While it's not perfect, we do love each other, and are very much in it for life. It's not a case that I'm secretly planning ahead for a break-up in the future. I can't see that ever happening. I think it would be only right to get his name on the deeds at some point in the future, as even if he's paying 'rent' to me, he'll still be paying plenty towards the house over the years. Even if he could only pay some nominal amount, like even just €1k or €2k, I'd feel a little bit better about it all - but he can't.

Do I need to just get over myself, and accept that our finances are a joint pool now? It's never been a major issue before that I earn more than him. The bills are there and have to be paid each month, I can't insist that he pays money that I know he doesn't have, so I just make up the deficit.

I don't know how he feels about this. Obviously he knows I have the deposit together now and we'll be looking soon, but I don't know whether or not he expects it to be a joint application. I know I have to talk to him, but just wanted to get some outside opinions first.

Kidchameleon

This has to be the most mean thing I've read in a long time. I'm being honest and trying to be constructively critical here OP, I'm not having a pop at you. How would you feel if it was the other way around? Imagine yourself and himself bought a house and he was thinking of you as a tenant? You say you guys are going to be together forever so why does money need to come into it? Are you guys a team or what?

clintella

Kidchameleon wrote: »

This has to be the most mean thing I've read in a long time. I'm being honest and trying to be constructively critical here OP, I'm not having a pop at you. How would you feel if it was the other way around? Imagine yourself and himself bought a house and he was thinking of you as a tenant? You say you guys are going to be together forever so why does money need to come into it? Are you guys a team or what?

In many ways we're a team.

In other ways, I've focussed on career progression over the past few years. He has made no effort to improve his career prospects in any way, and has no intention of doing so in the future. So while my earnings are likely to continue to increase, his most likely never will. I think I'd be more understanding if he at least made an effort to improve his earning potential.

Funnily enough, I was only thinking today if roles were reversed. And my immediate reaction was that NO WAY would I enter into a mortgage where I couldn't afford to pay a penny towards the deposit. It just wouldn't sit right with me at all, I couldn't do it.

I do appreciate the constructive criticism, and if it's a case that everyone else is of a similar mindset, I think I'll be able to accept that it's just a problem with me and my own perspective.

Jack B. Badd

OP, I'm of the opinion that you can't catagorise aspects of a relationship, like finances, independent of the relationship as a whole. Your & your partner's finances may not balance exactly but overall do you feel that you both contribute equally to your relationship? He may do a little more work around the house, or pop out to the shops more frequently, or organise more fun stuff for you to do as a family? Does his lack of career ambition mean that he can spend more time with your children? If he were to get a higher paying job, maybe he wouldn't be able to spend as much time doing things for your family that mean that you can work unhindered and it would ultimately affect your earning power if you had to take time to pick up the slack...

My point is, while you can't quantify & compare other contributions to your relationship as easily as you can money, if you feel overall that you both contribute equally, then does it matter which of you earns and/or saves more each month and who pays the deposit?

LegacyUser

As the other poster said I think its a bit mean of you think that because you contribute more financially than he does, then its ok for you to apply for application in your own name.
Also if you did break up would he not have rights after a time living in the house with you?
There are a lot of relationships where one partner earns more than the other or where one has financially supported the other when they were unemployed etc and there are also relationships out there where you have only one income and either the man or woman are the stay at home mom/dad. You are either a team or not.
The only way to sort this out would be to go talk to the bank and see what are the best options.

Saralee4

You are living together and even if it is not the amount you contribute, he still contributes to this. If you lived alone without his contribution, would you be able to have saved as much as you have for your deposit?

Also you will probably not be entitled to as high a mortgage offer as one person applicant, as in one income.

That's if you think of it practically.

It sounds like he is a nice guy, doing everything he can. You are career focussed but he is not. Your never going to have a case where you meet someone and they earn exactly the same as you.

If he bought a lotto ticket and won, how would you feel if he dumped you or insisted you pay as a tenant to live in his mansion?

Meathlass

Check the legal side of this OP.

My understanding is that once you buy a house (regardless of who pays the deposit) that your cohabiting partner is entitled to a share of it after a set number of years. See details and weblink below.

You seem to be very antagonized about your partners lack of career motivation - time to have a sit down and talk about where both of you see the relationship going.


However, if your relationship breaks down and your name is not on the title deeds to the house, you may still be able to show that you have some ownership rights in relation to the house.

Contributions to the purchase price of the house can be direct or indirect. Direct contributions include contributions to the initial down payment for the house or contributions to the mortgage installments. Indirect contributions may include paying some of the other day-to-day household expenses or unpaid work in the legal owner of the house's business. It has been held by the courts that working in the home looking after children and money spent or work done on home improvements are not contributions that give you any right of ownership in relation to the house.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth_family_relationships/problems_in_marriages_and_other_relationships/property_rights_and_the_breakdown_of_a_cohabiting_relationship.html

clintella

Jack B. Badd wrote: »

OP, I'm of the opinion that you can't catagorise aspects of a relationship, like finances, independent of the relationship as a whole. Your & your partner's finances may not balance exactly but overall do you feel that you both contribute equally to your relationship? He may do a little more work around the house, or pop out to the shops more frequently, or organise more fun stuff for you to do as a family? Does his lack of career ambition mean that he can spend more time with your children? If he were to get a higher paying job, maybe he wouldn't be able to spend as much time doing things for your family that mean that you can work unhindered and it would ultimately affect your earning power if you had to take time to pick up the slack...

We are equal on all of the other things, if anything I do more. Any time I've been studying or doing overtime, I do it early in the mornings or after the kids are in bed. We are fairly equal in housework etc.

Saralee4 wrote: »

You are living together and even if it is not the amount you contribute, he still contributes to this. If you lived alone without his contribution, would you be able to have saved as much as you have for your deposit?

Oh financially I'd be far better off without him. We'd rent an apartment in a much cheaper place (we only live where we are now because of his work, and we only need a house rather than apartment because of all his things.) We wouldn't need internet or TV bills, food bills would be a fraction of what they are now. I've balanced all of this - we wouldn't be better off, but we would be somewhat better off, and I'd have gotten the savings together before now. But it's absolutely worth it for all of us to be together as a family.

Saralee4 wrote: »

If he bought a lotto ticket and won, how would you feel if he dumped you or insisted you pay as a tenant to live in his mansion?

I think that's a little bit different? I've put in the hard work and hours of study and exams and overtime over the years, winning a lotto ticket is a pure matter of luck?

clintella

Jack B. Badd wrote: »

OP, I'm of the opinion that you can't catagorise aspects of a relationship, like finances, independent of the relationship as a whole. Your & your partner's finances may not balance exactly but overall do you feel that you both contribute equally to your relationship? He may do a little more work around the house, or pop out to the shops more frequently, or organise more fun stuff for you to do as a family? Does his lack of career ambition mean that he can spend more time with your children? If he were to get a higher paying job, maybe he wouldn't be able to spend as much time doing things for your family that mean that you can work unhindered and it would ultimately affect your earning power if you had to take time to pick up the slack...

We are equal on all of the other things, if anything I do more. Any time I've been studying or doing overtime, I do it early in the mornings or after the kids are in bed. We are fairly equal in housework etc.

Saralee4 wrote: »

You are living together and even if it is not the amount you contribute, he still contributes to this. If you lived alone without his contribution, would you be able to have saved as much as you have for your deposit?

Oh financially I'd be far better off without him. We'd rent an apartment in a much cheaper place (we only live where we are now because of his work, and we only need a house rather than apartment because of all his things.) We wouldn't need internet or TV bills, food bills would be a fraction of what they are now. I've balanced all of this - we wouldn't be significantly better off, but we would be somewhat better off, and I'd have gotten the savings together before now. But it's absolutely worth it for all of us to be together as a family.

Saralee4 wrote: »

If he bought a lotto ticket and won, how would you feel if he dumped you or insisted you pay as a tenant to live in his mansion?

I think that's a little bit different? I've put in the hard work and hours of study and exams and overtime over the years, winning a lotto ticket is a pure matter of luck?

homerjay2005

clintella wrote: »

Background - I've been living with my partner for six years. Both early thirties, two young kids.

I guess I want to have my cake and eat it - I want us to finally have 'our' house for our family, but I also have this independent streak that's saying, all things being equal, if I saved the deposit, shouldn't it be my house?

if i was your partner and you suggested this, i would question my future with you, if your partner left you, you would deserve it - its one of the most baffling and selfish stories i have heard on here and you appear to be one of the most money orientated people ive ever seen.

i would be in a similar situation to you in terms of having a deposit for a house and my partner not having much money saved, but under no circumstances would i even suggest what you are thinking. it would be OUR house and i made the decision to save some money to help OUR future.

you are forgetting that the deposit is only a fraction of the cost, theres still 80-90% of all future costs to be paid which you will share equally, so in essence being realistic you are only paying an extra 5-10% - that shouldnt entitle you to anything apart from some self esteem inside your head.

summary - if you want your own house, i suggest you leave your partner and let him find a person who treats him equally. if you want it with your partner, i suggest you get rid of these thoughts and never again bring them up.

Dixie Chick

Its not mean, its just taking a step back and a practical view of the situation before moving forward. There are so many couples who applied for joint mortgages and are in a terrible position now post break up.

OP, you have kids together and plan on living together. Think of it this way, with the savings in rent per month you will have the deposit back within a few years anyway.

There is nothing wrong with having a think before you undertake a mortgage, you are tied to it for 30 years essentially.

Meathlass

Perhaps your partner could split his home between paying for rent/household expenses and saving for a mortgage? So while he may usually pay c.€800 a month towards rent/household, he could now pay €600 and put the other €200 into the savings account for the mortgage.

I know it's the same amount, just split different ways and I know you are still have to make up the shortfall but it might change the optics of the situation.

BTW what does he feel about you paying for the deposit. Have ye ever had a discussion about the type of expenses coming when the kids start school and how they'll be paid for. Doesn't he want to get a better paying job to have more disposable income?

Stavro Mueller

Wow. I really hope your partner never stumbles across what you've written because he'd be quite hurt. While the written word's not the best medium for explaining complex nuanced issues, you are coming across quite badly here. You sound cold, money-obsessed and resentful of your partner. He doesn't sound like a bad partner at all. He's paying what he can to the extent that he doesn't have any disposable income at all most months. If that's not selfless I don't know what is. A 12K gap in earnings is still a 12k gap no matter how you look at it.

I just wonder is the idea of buying a house bringing up deep-seated doubts about this relationship? You referred to him as a partner so I assume you're not married. Is there any reason why you never married? Fear of a piece of paper that binds you to him? It does sound like you bitterly resent the differences in your earnings and that's something you need to look at. Also, do you look down on him? You don't seem to view him as an equal, that's for sure.

I'm no expert on the law but there's every chance that the cohabitation laws in this country might not do you any favours anyway. http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth_family_relationships/problems_in_marriages_and_other_relationships/property_rights_and_the_breakdown_of_a_cohabiting_relationship.html

ABajaninCork

You've already got two kids, it's a bit late to be thinking about the finances now isn't it? Have you ever discussed finances at all?? This should have been sorted BEFORE the kiddies came along!

From what you've written, it already seems to be an equal division. Not just finances, but the intangibles like childcare, housework and so on.

And you do know that in the unfortunate event of a split, your partner will be entitled to a share of the assets anyway? He's paid. Just not enough in your view...

But IMO, it's not about the finances really. You want your partner to push his career along, and he clearly doesn't for whatever reason. It's about different ambitions and goals, isn't it?

Time for you to have a proper grown-up discussion about it all, I think.

Meathlass

ABajaninCork wrote: »

But IMO, it's not about the finances really. You want your partner to push his career along, and he clearly doesn't for whatever reason. It's about different ambitions and goals, isn't it?

To me this is the key point. You've mentioned how you study and do overtime implying that your partner doesn't do any of these things. You also have a bigger house than necessary because of all his possessions which frankly sounds a little daft

What happens if in a few years time you're sick of living so frugally and would like to be able to take a nice holiday or get a new car. Will your boyfriend's lack of money hold all this back.

I'm actually on your side OP. I think the idea of putting his name on the deeds has brought to the fore these deep seated worries and possibly resentments about his financial contribution to the relationship.

clintella

Dixie Chick wrote: »

Its not mean, its just taking a step back and a practical view of the situation before moving forward. There are so many couples who applied for joint mortgages and are in a terrible position now post break up.

OP, you have kids together and plan on living together. Think of it this way, with the savings in rent per month you will have the deposit back within a few years anyway.

There is nothing wrong with having a think before you undertake a mortgage, you are tied to it for 30 years essentially.

Thank you. This isn't some deep-seated resentment of mine - it's a case that I've come to a point where the mortgage is a reality for us - when I started looking up online, I saw the joint and single options - and wondered which I'd/we'd be going for. I don't think there's anything wrong with considering the options available.

Meathlass wrote: »

Perhaps your partner could split his home between paying for rent/household expenses and saving for a mortgage? So while he may usually pay c.€800 a month towards rent/household, he could now pay €600 and put the other €200 into the savings account for the mortgage.

I know it's the same amount, just split different ways and I know you are still have to make up the shortfall but it might change the optics of the situation.

Thank you - this is the sort of thing I'd be thinking of, just so that we're both feeling equal in the relationship. It's just not about me - while we haven't discussed it, I imagine it's a matter of pride too that he contributes as equally as possible - I know it would be for me.

Meathlass wrote: »

BTW what does he feel about you paying for the deposit. Have ye ever had a discussion about the type of expenses coming when the kids start school and how they'll be paid for. Doesn't he want to get a better paying job to have more disposable income?

We'll be paying a lot less when kids start school than what we're paying now, as childcare fees for the last few years have been massive. And no, it seems he simply doesn't have the motivation for that.

Stavro Mueller wrote: »

Wow. I really hope your partner never stumbles across what you've written because he'd be quite hurt. While the written word's not the best medium for explaining complex nuanced issues, you are coming across quite badly here. You sound cold, money-obsessed and resentful of your partner. He doesn't sound like a bad partner at all. He's paying what he can to the extent that he doesn't have any disposable income at all most months. If that's not selfless I don't know what is. A 12K gap in earnings is still a 12k gap no matter how you look at it.

But it's not, not after tax. Not after I've paid to bring up the shortfall for all of us in living expenses. And after paying in to the deposit savings each month, we're absolutely every bit as broke as each other. My lifestyle is absolutely no way more extravagent than his after all that.

Stavro Mueller wrote: »

You referred to him as a partner so I assume you're not married. Is there any reason why you never married? Fear of a piece of paper that binds you to him? It does sound like you bitterly resent the differences in your earnings and that's something you need to look at.

Absolutely not. I've often suggested marriage, he thinks it's a waste of money. As far as I know, it only costs €300 (which I'd be happy to pay), but he won't. Although I have no reason to doubt his commitment to the relationship. He's just not interested.

Big Bag of Chips

When I started going out with my husband we decided to buy a house pretty quickly. He was 4 years older than me, so 4 years more work experience than me. He lived at home, I rented. He had €14000 in the bank. I has €2000 in the credit union.

He put his €14000 into a deposit for OUR house.

We paid the mortgage between us. 5 years later he wasn't working. I paid the entire mortgage and child maintenance for his daughter from a previous relationship. Now I don't work and he is the sole earner in the house. I contribute nothing financially!

It's either the "family" home or it's not. You either consider your partner your family or you don't. You might even find it difficult to get a mortgage in your own name if this is to be the family home. You might find a solicitor will insist on his name being added to it to give him some sort of protection.

Just thinking about me and my own relationship and family, I find it very difficult to understand your thinking. We have always had a household income, sometimes both of us contributed to it, sometimes one of us contributed, but always whatever money was there was there and available to both of us for whatever was needed.

Your partner isn't as ambitious as you. Not everybody is. He is happy with the job he does. I'm not terribly professionally ambitious (probably obvious by the fact I earn €0 at the moment!) but together me and my husband have a system that works for us. We're not loaded. We're usually glad to see payday arrive, but we're in it together.

Meathlass

clintella wrote: »

Absolutely not. I've often suggested marriage, he thinks it's a waste of money. As far as I know, it only costs €300 (which I'd be happy to pay), but he won't. Although I have no reason to doubt his commitment to the relationship. He's just not interested.

Hmm, you want marriage and a higher standard of living; he's happy with living together, muddling along from day to day. You've initiated the savings for a mortgage and are now doing the research to get one and don't seem to have discussed it with him.

6 years isn't a huge amount of time to be with someone. I'd imagine your relationship has been accelerated by the arrival of 2 children.

clintella

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

When I started going out with my husband we decided to buy a house pretty quickly. He was 4 years older than me, so 4 years more work experience than me. He lived at home, I rented. He had €14000 in the bank. I has €2000 in the credit union.

He put his €14000 into a deposit for OUR house.

We paid the mortgage between us. 5 years later he wasn't working. I paid the entire mortgage and child maintenance for his daughter from a previous relationship. Now I don't work and he is the sole earner in the house. I contribute nothing financially!

It's either the "family" home or it's not. You either consider your partner your family or you don't. You might even find it difficult to get a mortgage in your own name if this is to be the family home. You might find a solicitor will insist on his name being added to it to give him some sort of rights.

Just thinking about me and my own relationship and family, I find it very difficult to understand your thinking. We have always had a household income, sometimes both of us contributed to it, sometimes one of us contributed, but always whatever money was there was there and available to both of us for whatever was needed.

But surely it's normal to consider this, before taking the massive leap of getting a mortgage with someone else's name on it when they're paying nothing upfront?

I actually know of quite a few couples in adults relationships/marriages with children involved, where they have always and will always kept their finances separate, and never had a joint pool of money. Obviously this hasn't been an option for us, with the discrepancy in earnings. I don't think I'm a horrible person to at least think about it before making the next big step and getting a mortgage in both our names.

I guess it's to do with the fact that I've been independent financially from my parents from a very young age. It's a bit frustrating to have ended up in a position where an adult is financially reliant on me. I would just like some bit of financial independence again.

I will of course be discussing all of this in detail with my partner. It's good to get external opinions, and it seems many are of the opinion that I'm stingey and mean to even think about this issue. I don't know. All opinions will certainly be taken on board!

Stheno

How do the monthly expenses break down, do you both pay roughly the same?

homerjay2005

clintella wrote: »

But surely it's normal to consider this, before taking the massive leap of getting a mortgage with someone else's name on it when they're paying nothing upfront?

its not somebody else though, its your partner, the father of your kids and the man who will end up paying about 45% of the costs involved in this house for the rest of your lives.

Big Bag of Chips

clintella wrote: »

But surely it's normal to consider this, before taking the massive leap of getting a mortgage with someone else's name on it when they're paying nothing upfront?

I don't know. I just know that if my husband felt like you did, didn't want my name on it because I wasn't going to contribute to the initial deposit, yet be happy to take my money for his mortgage repayments, I would have been wondering was I being taken for a fool.

And my mother probably would have told me I was being taken for a fool

Stavro Mueller

If financial independence is what you want, why did you hook up with this guy and have children with him then?

You could also argue that because he has been handing over his money for other expenses in your home, it has enabled you to stash more of your money away

Stheno

Stavro Mueller wrote: »

You could also argue that because he has been handing over his money for other expenses in your home, it has enabled you to stash more of your money away

That's what I was thinking op has been able to save more as he has been contributing to the expenses

clintella

Stheno wrote: »

How do the monthly expenses break down, do you both pay roughly the same?

Stavro Mueller wrote: »

If financial independence is what you want, why did you hook up with this guy and have children with him then?

You could also argue that because he has been handing over his money for other expenses in your home, it has enabled you to stash more of your money away

Stheno wrote: »

That's what I was thinking op has been able to save more as he has been contributing to the expenses

Well, no. As I've already mentioned, I've paid quite a bit more for rent, bills, childcare, etc, over the years. And he's not particularly handy around the house, either.

Which is fine. I love him, I want a life with him.

I just think that, now that we've gotten through the initial panic of the early childhood years - where we're dragging money from wherever we can to cover ourselves day-to-day - that we should take a step back and see about making our finances our own again. Rather than me just plugging the gap each month, to make ends meet.

Jack B. Badd

clintella wrote: »

We are equal on all of the other things, if anything I do more. Any time I've been studying or doing overtime, I do it early in the mornings or after the kids are in bed. We are fairly equal in housework etc.

So it sounds like it's only finances where you're unequal (or is it that that is the one area where you have quantifiable evidence of inequality?). If that's the only issue, then it depends on how much weight you put on finances as part of your relationship. People can call you mean or whatever over it but at the end of the day it's your relationship & it either makes you happy or not. Have a think about what you feel & make a (hopefully sound) financial decision based on that.

Big Bag of Chips

clintella wrote: »

....that we should take a step back and see about making our finances our own again. Rather than me just plugging the gap each month, to make ends meet.

"our own" as in plural... You need him to contribute to your mortgage. You see a life with him. Ok, he's not going to physically contribute to the initial 20%. But he will be contributing to a share of the remaining 80%. So I still don't understand the issue...

And you have no idea what the future holds. Over the lifetime of your mortgage your own personal circumstances could change dramatically and you could end up depending on him financially.

You mention couples who have always kept separate finances.. And yes, there are loads of people who have physically separate finances but jointly work out whatever is best for the family. You are trying to figure out what is best for you yet wanting to still be part of the family unit....

I'm not very sure you can separate yourself like that. I can only speak personally, but I would feel uneasy if either me or my husband wanted to branch out alone.. It just wouldn't sit right with me.

strobe

I dont think you attempting to argue in court, should the relationship end and it come to that, that your long term partner and the father of your two children was 'just a tenant' and the house is solely yours because you paid the deposit 'on your own' as you see it (would you have saved that 15% were it not for him paying what sounds like every penny he earns into your joint finances for the last 6 years?) and he has had no contribution during the time living there would go very well for you.

We're you here saying he keeps his wages for himself I could kinda see where you're coming from. But he doesn't. He pays it all 'into the family'. As it stands your attitude is 'what's his is mine and what's mine is mine'. I think you need to give yourself a good hard slap or shake and cop on and join us all back in the real world. Sorry for the bluntness.

meeeeh

The deposit for our house was land my partner had (you got to love Celtic tiger). He had more savings, we got some gifts from his family and mine and mortgage goes 100% from his account. I pay for childcare, electricity, tax, groceries (100%) and so on. Since we have our own company I get paid more than him although he works a lot more and he is way more important for the business. We are a team, there is no clear division, we still keep our own bank accounts but we consider ourselves a unit. Neither of us has more extravagant lifestyle than the other, I hate to be corny but we feel as a family. Your posts come across as two individuals who have some business interests together.

clintella

strobe wrote: »

I dont think you attempting to argue in court, should the relationship end and it come to that, that your long term partner and the father of your two children was 'just a tenant' and the house is solely yours because you paid the deposit 'on your own' as you see it (would you have saved that 15% were it not for him paying what sounds like every penny he earns into your joint finances for the last 6 years?) and he has had no contribution during the time living there would go very well for you.

We're you here saying he keeps his wages for himself I could kinda see where you're coming from. But he doesn't. He pays it all 'into the family'. As it stands your attitude is 'what's his is mine and what's mine is mine'. I think you need to give yourself a good hard slap or shake and cop on and join us all back in the real world. Sorry for the bluntness.

I guess I just find it hard to accept that, in a relationship where both partners are otherwise equal, I'm responsible for the bulk of the finances - for day-to-day living expenses, and for saving the full deposit for the house, and - most likely - for paying the mortgage itself. When he has purposefully chosen to stay in a rut in his career for a decade.

If it was a case of "what's his is mine and what's mine is mine", the relationship would have ended long ago, as I've always paid by far the higher costs.

It's not a case that it would ever go to court. If we were ever to break up (and I can't see it happening), I imagine it would be quite fair and amicable. We're not like that.

As mentioned already, I was in no way dependent on his contribution to save the deposit, and probably would have saved it sooner otherwise.

Stheno

clintella wrote: »

I guess I just find it hard to accept that, in a relationship where both partners are otherwise equal, I'm responsible for the bulk of the finances - for day-to-day living expenses, and for saving the full deposit for the house, and - most likely - for paying the mortgage itself. When he has purposefully chosen to stay in a rut in his career for a decade.

If it was a case of "what's his is mine and what's mine is mine", the relationship would have ended long ago, as I've always paid by far the higher costs.

It's not a case that it would ever go to court. If we were ever to break up (and I can't see it happening), I imagine it would be quite fair and amicable. We're not like that.

As mentioned already, I was in no way dependent on his contribution to save the deposit, and probably would have saved it sooner otherwise.

You sound quite resentful of him and your posts don't reflect that you see him as an equal, rather they portray him as a burden you have to bear imo

clintella

Stheno wrote: »

You sound quite resentful of him and your posts don't reflect that you see him as an equal, rather they portray him as a burden you have to bear imo

No. Really, I don't feel resentful of him. I recognise his flaws, I recognise my flaws, I recognise our imcompatibilities, I recognise that our relationship isn't perfect. But I also recognise that there are more positives than negatives, and that we love each other, and that as a family unit we are very strong.

And maybe indeed the next step for us is a joint mortgage. I just thought it would be good to explore the pros and cons before officially applying for one. To gain the benefit of the experience of others.

ABajaninCork

Here's the benefit of my experience. NEVER buy a property together if you're not married. Causes all kinds of aggro later, as I discovered to my cost.

And if your partner doesn't want to get married as weddings are a waste of money? He might want to think on this: He's probably named as the father on the kids' birth certs. But if anything happened to you tomorrow, he has no claim to the children even though he's their father unless he has guardianship.

You can get married for the princely sum of E200. The rest is bells and whistles if you want them. So again - you really need to sit down and TALK! I reckon there's a lot more going on than you're prepared to acknowledge. That's OK. But you need to sort this out before it becomes a dealbreaker.

LegacyUser

You say that he pays everything he has into the household and has no disposable income left. You say things are fairly equal. You then go on to reveal, in a piecemeal manner, that really you pay for the majority of things. You also state that, after tax and savings, there isn't much of an income differential.

This doesn't add up really. How are you paying for the majority of things? 12k a year, if you are on the higher rate of tax, is probably worth around 6k or less net. How much are you saying per annum? Around 6k ? So, savings aside, you both have a similar net income? He has no money left, but you still pay a lot more than he does?

ronjo

clintella wrote: »

I guess I just find it hard to accept that, in a relationship where both partners are otherwise equal, I'm responsible for the bulk of the finances - for day-to-day living expenses, and for saving the full deposit for the house, and - most likely - for paying the mortgage itself. When he has purposefully chosen to stay in a rut in his career for a decade.

If it was a case of "what's his is mine and what's mine is mine", the relationship would have ended long ago, as I've always paid by far the higher costs.

It's not a case that it would ever go to court. If we were ever to break up (and I can't see it happening), I imagine it would be quite fair and amicable. We're not like that.

As mentioned already, I was in no way dependent on his contribution to save the deposit, and probably would have saved it sooner otherwise.

I have to say I am with the others on this.

I actually paid for our house entirely but its in both our names.
I also earn more than 3 times what my wife does so I pay for the majority of our expenses.
We also have 2 children and to be honest I never have given this a moments thought as we are a family.

Big Bag of Chips

clintella wrote: »

When he has purposefully chosen to stay in a rut in his career for a decade.

Is he in a rut though? Does he feel like he's in a rut or is he quite happy to stay in his current position. In a rut implies that the person wants to, but can't advance. But you say he has "purposefully chosen". Not everybody feels the need to advance up the career ladder. It sounds like he doesn't have a problem with his career choices, but you do.

Edit:

clintella wrote: »

Oh financially I'd be far better off without him. We'd rent an apartment in a much cheaper place (we only live where we are now because of his work, and we only need a house rather than apartment because of all his things.) We wouldn't need internet or TV bills, food bills would be a fraction of what they are now. I've balanced all of this - we wouldn't be better off, but we would be somewhat better off, and I'd have gotten the savings together before now. But it's absolutely worth it for all of us to be together as a family.

You'd also be financially far better off without 2 kids!

You cant pick and choose what parts of your life you want and don't want. You have what you have. You live where you live. Your bf is the person he is, complete with his "sht job" and loads of "stuff". You can't cut him out because you feel he's not good enough, yet want to keep him around for your own personal financial gain.

homerjay2005

am i the only person that feels really really sorry for this man?

clintella wrote: »

that we should take a step back and see about making our finances our own again. Rather than me just plugging the gap each month, to make ends meet.

unfortunately, when you have two kids, there is no such thing as your own finances.

how you think it would work - you both buy one show each next time the kids needs a pair of runners?

and to be honest, if you have enough savings to buy a house and zero debts while being able to clear all bills, then you are far from making ends meet.

i think your idea of finances and what a relationship is, is different to most.

robbiezero

clintella wrote: »

In many ways we're a team.

In other ways, I've focussed on career progression over the past few years. He has made no effort to improve his career prospects in any way, and has no intention of doing so in the future. So while my earnings are likely to continue to increase, his most likely never will. I think I'd be more understanding if he at least made an effort to improve his earning potential.

Funnily enough, I was only thinking today if roles were reversed. And my immediate reaction was that NO WAY would I enter into a mortgage where I couldn't afford to pay a penny towards the deposit. It just wouldn't sit right with me at all, I couldn't do it.

I do appreciate the constructive criticism, and if it's a case that everyone else is of a similar mindset, I think I'll be able to accept that it's just a problem with me and my own perspective.

The corporate rat-race isn't for everyone and is no guarantee of being happier or having additional quality of life even if earnings do increase.

Dog of Tears

clintella wrote: »

he has purposefully chosen to stay in a rut in his career for a decade.

You sound very resentful about your partner's career choices. At the end of the day, they were his decisions to make - just as it was you decision to have children with him.

It's a bit late at this stage to be trying to 'punish' him for them.

hoodwinked

just my take on this having been on both sides of the financial coin,


when i met my husband, we had a baby sooner than we expected to, at the time i was working full time, he was in college full time, as soon as she was born he moved in with me and we became a family unit, i paid his fee's, his car insurance/tax...etc our rent, our food bills,

i had savings of a few thousand, as i was house sharing previous to that and was saving to buy a new car, these savings got spent on the baby and other expenses we had (like his fee's..etc) he obviously wasn't happy taking money off of me, but i said to him i saw it as an investment in our future as a family, it was in both of our interests for him to finish college and do well,

i was made redundant just as he graduated, he luckily got a job and became the sole earner, paying our rent, my car insurance...etc overall it balanced out,

we recently have had the opportunity to get a mortgage so we were speaking about what to do financially, it will be a joint application (because we are married) but as i am the stay at home mother with a few odd jobs, i won't be contributing equally financially to this, but as he says it doesn't matter to him because its going to be a home for our children and us,

he has my tax credits, so that in a way is income i am contributing, but most importantly he recognises that he is progressing in his career because i take over the day to day running of our lives things like being the one to collect them from school, doing homework, cooking dinners, doing the shopping, allowing him the freedom to work overtime on projects when he is asked to, or work weekends,

i am in my spare time doing courses and volunteering work to make sure my cv doesn't go blank over the next few years as i can fit these things around my schedule, i do apply for jobs and if one should work out things between us will change again, that is the way of life, it's like a see-saw and just because right now you are on the higher side, that doesn't mean you won't come down again,

should that happen wouldn't you be glad knowing your partner will have your back?

strobe

clintella wrote: »

I guess I just find it hard to accept that, in a relationship where both partners are otherwise equal, I'm responsible for the bulk of the finances - for day-to-day living expenses, and for saving the full deposit for the house, and - most likely - for paying the mortgage itself. When he has purposefully chosen to stay in a rut in his career for a decade.

If it was a case of "what's his is mine and what's mine is mine", the relationship would have ended long ago, as I've always paid by far the higher costs.

It's not a case that it would ever go to court. If we were ever to break up (and I can't see it happening), I imagine it would be quite fair and amicable. We're not like that.

As mentioned already, I was in no way dependent on his contribution to save the deposit, and probably would have saved it sooner otherwise.

Based on an alternative, hypothetical reality where you made different life choices. Actual reality was you had a certain amount of money coming in, a certain amount going out based on the choices you made in life - having two children, being in a relationship, living where you lived, etc, and were able to save the remainder to use as a house deposit.

X = A + B - C. (just a quick apology to a Mr O Driscol at this point if he happens on be reading for shouting "when are we ever going to use this ****!?" during one of his attempts to teach me algebra for the junior cert.

X being the amount you saved, A and B being money coming in - your income and your boyfriends income, and C being your outgoings (rent, food, kids clothe and schooling and medical treatment, bottles of wine, hobbies, whatever, etc). Try to remove B from the equation. It doesn't balance and neither do the books, unless you reduce the value of X.

MissFlitworth

That 20% deposit is going to be a pretty small part of what your house will actually cost you over the life of the mortgage (verrrrry roughly a mortgage of 200 grand at 4% will cost you close to 400 grand by the time you've finished paying it off), will your partner be contributing to the mortgage payments or are you planning on paying them entirely yourself without increasing his contribution to other household costs? Over the lifetime of your mortgage the fact that you had the initial deposit is a pretty small deal if you're both contributing to the payments. A mortgage is just a loan, your deposit makes the loan smaller but if you're still both paying towards then it should be a joint mortgage. I personally wouldn't make a contribution to a loan for something I didn't stand to get a return from.

Stheno

strobe wrote: »

Based on an alternative, hypothetical reality where you made different life choices. Actual reality was you had a certain amount of money coming in, a certain amount going out based on the choices you made in life - having two children, being in a relationship, living where you lived, etc, and were able to save the remainder to use as a house deposit.

X = A + B - C. (just a quick apology to a Mr O Driscol at this point if he happens on be reading for shouting "when are we ever going to use this ****!?" during one of his attempts to teach me algebra for the junior cert.

X being the amount you saved, A and B being money coming in - your income and your boyfriends income, and C being your outgoings (rent, food, kids clothe and schooling and medical treatment, bottles of wine, hobbies, whatever, etc). Try to remove B from the equation. It doesn't balance and neither do the books, unless you reduce the value of X.

Ops logic seems to be that her oh has caused their outgoings to be greater than if he were not around e.g. by needing to rent a house rather than an apartment due to all of his stuff

clintella

MissFlitworth wrote: »

That 20% deposit is going to be a pretty small part of what your house will actually cost you over the life of the mortgage (verrrrry roughly a mortgage of 200 grand at 4% will cost you close to 400 grand by the time you've finished paying it off), will your partner be contributing to the mortgage payments or are you planning on paying them entirely yourself without increasing his contribution to other household costs? Over the lifetime of your mortgage the fact that you had the initial deposit is a pretty small deal if you're both contributing to the payments.

OK but by the same logic, doesn't that mean I'm going to end up paying the huge bulk - not just in deposit, but by the fact that I'm always going to be paying much higher mortgage repayments - not to mention much higher living expenses, as I have been doing all along? I mean, his earnings won't be increasing any time soon?

Maybe it's fair - most people posting here seem to think so.

strobe

Stheno wrote: »

Ops logic seems to be that her oh has caused their outgoings to be greater than if he were not around e.g. by needing to rent a house rather than an apartment due to all of his stuff

I'm aware of that, she chose to have higher outgoings through the decisions she made. If she'd not had children or a relationship at all and lived in a 10 person house share in a rough part of town and all other things were equal her outgoings would have been lower still, but that's not the choice she made. As such they were higher. And her income combined with her boyfriends was what she had coming in, when outgoings were subtracted from this combined income, she had savings.

MissFlitworth

But then most relationships have one person who earns more than the other, for whatever reason, and that can change over the course of your relationship. I totally get where you're coming from in that it can really suck to be that person when you've worked hard and you don't see any financial benefit, for yourself, in the increase in earnings but honestly if you feel that strongly about paying more towards your family home with your partner then it's probably not a great idea to buy a family home with him. Just that things get tricky legally after that with regards to making sure you completely own the place and he doesn't have a claim on it

Big Bag of Chips

You will never have equal salaries. Very very very few couples would have equal salaries. Most couples have one who is paid more and therefore pays more. It is usually proportional and it usually balances out over the lifetime of the relationship.

You either accept that you earn more therefore it is expected that you pay more, or you live without him and be as financially well off and independent as you think you deserve to be.

Stheno

clintella wrote: »

OK but by the same logic, doesn't that mean I'm going to end up paying the huge bulk - not just in deposit, but by the fact that I'm always going to be paying much higher mortgage repayments - not to mention much higher living expenses, as I have been doing all along? I mean, his earnings won't be increasing any time soon?

Maybe it's fair - most people posting here seem to think so.

I've asked you this before percentage wise how much do each of you pay of total expenses? Given that there is only 1k per month gross difference in your salaries and that up to 52 per cent of that would be taxed, I'm struggling to see how you are paying so much more and saving too. Has he some personal expense he has to cover?

strobe

clintella wrote: »

OK but by the same logic, doesn't that mean I'm going to end up paying the huge bulk - not just in deposit, but by the fact that I'm always going to be paying much higher mortgage repayments - not to mention much higher living expenses, as I have been doing all along? I mean, his earnings won't be increasing any time soon?

Maybe it's fair - most people posting here seem to think so.

How much fairer than him contributing, according to you 100% of his income, to be used to cover joint expenses, can it be? He contributes a higher percentage of his income to joint expenses than you are happy to yourself.

clintella

Stheno wrote: »

I've asked you this before percentage wise how much do each of you pay of total expenses? Given that there is only 1k per month gross difference in your salaries and that up to 52 per cent of that would be taxed, I'm struggling to see how you are paying so much more and saving too. Has he some personal expense he has to cover?

As it happens we're both on lower tax band (me just under) Yes, it's a struggle financially. As a percentage? I'd say 60/40 (or even 65/35). He has no extra personal expenses.

Phonehead

Wow, I really hope your partner never reads this. What magical world do both Partners earn the exact same??? everything reads like you resent and have no respect for the guy! Just get the house on your own and let him know the truth and if he stays he stays and if he goes then at least he can find someone who respects him and you can find someone in your salary bracket. Sorry if this sounds harsh