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Indo today

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    #122
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    meeeeh wrote: »
    And it is fine because it works for you. But you will not solve unemployment with making childcare expensive enough to force parents out of work. Neither are those who put kids into creches outsourcing kids or abandoning them like another poster you thanked seems to suggest. It might not fit into your worldview but some professional early childcare seems to benefit kids so drop the smugness.

    Edit: I was replying to Ted1.

    An aside but can 'fetac level 5' be the pinnacle of the irish childcare profession?


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    #123
    Moonbeam
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,953 Mod ✭✭✭✭Moonbeam


    Armelodie wrote: »
    An aside but can 'fetac level 5' be the pinnacle of the irish childcare profession?

    It is a basic requirement and better then nothing .


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    #124
    Sligo1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,948 ✭✭✭Sligo1


    Armelodie wrote: »
    An aside but can 'fetac level 5' be the pinnacle of the irish childcare profession?

    There are some (minority I would say) that have degrees and early childhood care diplomas. This is great and shows interest and competence. I teach FETAC and tbh... FETAC level 5 would not give me great confidence with care provided that may be unsupervised at times. If FETAC level 5s were under direct supervision of someone more qualified I would have no qualms.


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    #125
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    I understood it was now a requirement for FETAC level six for a person running a child care operation?


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    #126
    Sligo1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,948 ✭✭✭Sligo1


    lazygal wrote: »
    I understood it was now a requirement for FETAC level six for a person running a child care operation?

    I don't think level 6 it's a requirement for an employee tho? However, level 5/6 would probably be beneficial or preferable. I could be wrong about the requirements here as I'm not familiar with the childcare sector.


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    #127
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    aye dont get me wrong though Id take my hat off to anyone who takes up the challenge of education. But as a career progression for most it seems to start and end with this (unless you go into the management end of things). And why would anyone botherto continue education if they dont get rewarded for it. At the very least courses (even to degree level) should be provided for free and supports provided to undertake them.


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    #128
    Sligo1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,948 ✭✭✭Sligo1


    I don't think that would be feasible tho. Career progression and education really is up to the individual. There may not initially be much reward in it or even incentive to do so. But down the line in can prove invaluable for career progression. It really is down to the individual. Some who can't afford it may secure loans or grants. But those who really want to progress with education will.


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    #129
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    But that is the thing, if you ignore the professional childcare sector and put in as little money as
    possible, you get what you pay for. That being said the're parents that are even less capable taking care of children. It is easier to make sure that childcare providers adhere to standards than parents. You can find holes in any system, I just don't believe that the same credits, payments or whatever should 've given for children at home or children in childcare. The money shouldn't be there to afford parents the lifestyle, it should be there to enable best support for kids. And Irish childcare is underfunded in international comparisons. It is not an equality issue, it is a quality issue. Equality is that you can tot up the numbers and decide what you want to do, not that financial credits are the same.


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    #130
    Sligo1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,948 ✭✭✭Sligo1


    Tbh it should be about equality tho. It's not right to provide subsidies for childcare and neglect those SAHP. Be it choice or whatever. It's just not appropriate and would be boarderline discrimination. Sorry if I've taken anyone up wrong here and got the wrong end of the stick. But if subsidies in whatever form ever were provided to those with children in care. You would absolutely have to do the same for those SAHP. They are doing the same job (better or worse) than those in the profession. Whether it be 5:1 in crèche or 1:1 at home shouldnt make a blind bit of difference imo.


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    #131
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    But that is the same as saying that givinvg social welfare to unemployed would mean that you have to match the tax credits of the employed to the same level. There were plenty of suggestions that childcare benefit should be linked to earnings. Would we then discriminate those better off. If you want to provide good and affordable childcare you have to pump more money into it and I heard during the week that Ireland is at the bottom of the OCDE countries. You are not discriminated if you can opt in to the childcare. Weather you want to stay at home also is your choice.


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    #132
    Sligo1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,948 ✭✭✭Sligo1


    meeeeh wrote: »
    But that is the same as saying that givinvg social welfare to unemployed would mean that you have to match the tax credits of the employed to the same level. There were plenty of suggestions that childcare benefit should be linked to earnings. Would we then discriminate those better off. If you want to provide good and affordable childcare you have to pump more money into it and I heard during the week that Ireland is at the bottom of the OCDE countries. You are not discriminated if you can opt in to the childcare. Weather you want to stay at home also is your choice.

    I think money should be pumped into childcare. But I don't think tax credits should be given to those availing of it and those not don't get anything. Yes if you stay at home it is your choice. But if you go out to work that is also your choice. Nobody is forcing anyone to do anything. Yes Some people need to go out to work to provide for their children. But likewise some people need to stay at home to provide for their children.


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    #133
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    FBut the if you replace word tax credits with subsidizing organized childcare (possibly among per child and hours) the result is the same and you avoid discrimination. The net result is the same.

    Personally I think subsidies should be linked to actual kids and higher subsidy given to the second or third child in childcare. But that is just my opinion, in general I am against tax credits because I think you have to clearly allocate money to make the difference.


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    #134
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,350 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    There is talk about extending the ecce scheme to 2 years which is a plus.

    The French system is free and means tested in that the more you have the more you pay.
    http://www.frenchentree.com/living-in-france/family-life/child-care-in-france/

    A friend of mine is living in Paris and about to have a baby there. They will pool a nanny with their friends. Intresting to see how it works out with them


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    #135
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    It's on Claire Byrne on RTE right now.

    I think it's going to come down to "shall the state support child care outside the family unit!"...

    So folks, the 'breaking even' is designed to be so... Ya sure, there's one less person working in a family and all the credits and supports that go into that butttt the job has to go elsewhere so the govt. probably see it as making way for more people into employment.


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