Who will really benifit from the RDP 2020

Shannonsurfer1

Hi all, first time poster here

In the Rural Development Programme (RDP) 2014 – 2020 draft paper under the on farm capital investment section its states

"TAMS II scheme outlined above targeted at Young Farmers will provide access to support for young farmers who are setting up for the first time as the head of an agricultural holding and who are investing in specified capital investments on their farms"

Also the definition of a Young Farmer in the National Reserve scheme follows the same theme, i.e. setting up an agricultural holding for the first time or has set up such a holding during the five
years preceding the first submission of the Basic Payment Scheme application

So any one under 40 years of age and with a herd number pre 2010 falls into the bracket of “old young” farmer, thus from my understanding not only is ineligible for the national reserve scheme but will also be excluded from the 60% grand ceiling for any propose farm infrastructure in the future ..

As a fulltime famer (27) who falls under the term “old young” farmer I feel the RDP has failed to deliver anything of real substance for fulltime and part-time farmers in a similar position ....

Are we not also a vital part of this rural community that contributes to the economy....

My question is to any IFA, Macra, Politicians on this.... When will this issue be resolved????

Nettleman

I believe you are correct. No priority in Glas either, which is just as bad.
Farms being taken over by lads like us are likely to have been under-invested for a long period as previous generation left new investment to the new man !!!
IMO, All groups who were involved in the new CAP have failed to address the age profile issue in the sector, by not offering serious financial assistance to men/ladies who have taken over since the last CAP. They may have been relying on the recession to provide low cost "new blood", but a lot of people believe that there are big vested interests at work here who want to protect what they have and can just about take a wee cut for very restricted number of new young farmers who will quality.
However, its my view that the farm organisations will pay dearly for this mistake in the future, as their membership profile means their going to need us younger farmers in the years ahead, and I will not be paying membership to an organisation which ignores my voice in favour of the big boys who have been looked after for years.

djmc

I never received anything for being a young farmer had not enough units then too much stock then farming over 5 years then aged over 35 years now over 40.
They keeped moving the goal posts so missed out on installation aid and building grants

paddysdream

To answer the question;not me!!!!

In general those on below average payments will see an increase in pillar 1 (SFP) supports but everyone will see substantial cuts in what can be got from pillar 2(Reps Aeos etc).
Not really up to speed on DA.

"Old young" farmers are supposed to be looked after under the national reserve.Think that was the idea anyways.

Can there be many who fall under this title though?Think installation aid ran to 2008 or so and 5 years or less from 2015 brings us back to 2011.
So thats those who started to farm in their own right in just those 3 years.
Agree its unfair but hard to make rules to suit everyone.

You obv. started farming in 2009 or 2010 so missing installation aid but still farming too long to qualify under the new Cap as an eligible new farmer.

I know the age profile on here is much younger than farming in general and to be fair its reflected in answers to threads like this(no one poster in particular;just a general impression)
To be honest would be farming 28 years in my own name(straight from school so that gives you a general age idea) and would have a very different outlook to most on here re. a lot of things about inheritance,working with parents,taking over the responsibilities etc etc.

So prob. not the best person to answer you

Oh and never got a building grant in all that time either!!!!!

amacca

Nettleman wrote: »

I believe you are correct. No priority in Glas either, which is just as bad.
Farms being taken over by lads like us are likely to have been under-invested for a long period as previous generation left new investment to the new man !!!
IMO, All groups who were involved in the new CAP have failed to address the age profile issue in the sector, by not offering serious financial assistance to men/ladies who have taken over since the last CAP. They may have been relying on the recession to provide low cost "new blood", but a lot of people believe that there are big vested interests at work here who want to protect what they have and can just about take a wee cut for very restricted number of new young farmers who will quality.
However, its my view that the farm organisations will pay dearly for this mistake in the future, as their membership profile means their going to need us younger farmers in the years ahead, and I will not be paying membership to an organisation which ignores my voice in favour of the big boys who have been looked after for years.

agreed - I've been ****ed over so many times at this stage my attitude is more or less **** all these organisations, the status quo and vested interests…..in any event I really feel that what they give with one hand they end up taking with another sooner or later………as paranoid as it seems their handouts are really just a form of control imo

amacca

paddysdream wrote: »

"Old young" farmers are supposed to be looked after under the national reserve.Think that was the idea anyways.

not true as far as I can make out - its what I thought would be only fair initially but to the best of my knowledge the only avenue open to old young farmers is the scottish derogation

and it is still an if at this stage afaik - has to approved at eu level for us to get it

and when we do get it it rises to something like a max of 190e a hectare by 2019 starting off in the first year with a value of zero

feels like a slap in the face after all the bull**** that went before and watching lads up the road on 80k payments and being excluded because I paid parents fair market rent rather than a "nominal" value for the land

to repeat a point…..**** em and the horses they rode in on…..its taking care of the big boys as usual with small concessions granted to small groups so as not to upset the apple cart on the big boys..same old same old.

paddysdream

amacca wrote: »

not true as far as I can make out - its what I thought would be only fair initially but to the best of my knowledge the only avenue open to old young farmers is the scottish derogation

and it is still an if at this stage afaik - has to approved at eu level for us to get it

and when we do get it it rises to something like a max of 190e a hectare by 2019 starting off in the first year with a value of zero

feels like a slap in the face after all the bull**** that went before and watching lads up the road on 80k payments and being excluded because I paid parents fair market rent rather than a "nominal" value for the land

to repeat a point…..**** em and the horses they rode in on…..its taking care of the big boys as usual with small concessions granted to small groups so as not to upset the apple cart on the big boys..same old same old.

Shouldn't answer this but here goes!!

Where are all these "big boys" on 80k?There are a lot less than you think.
Average is about 10k so for everyone over this there is someone with less.
On average a farmer with 80k(at 500 per hectare) would be farming in excess of 400 acres and that size farm aint that common.

How did (does) renting the farm from your parents stop you from buying entitlements and did you not take the entitlements with the land or were there none on it? Genuine question.

Awful lot of grumbling now but where were people when this was being trashed out over the last few years?

In drystock and tillage farming the best paying part of the year is filling in the single payment form,cattle,sheep or grain prices are a poor second.

Looking at it from an Eastern seaboard point of view,the feeling around here is that too many concessions were given by, and cuts taken by,lowland farmers in the south and east to support those on the western seaboard.I may not agree with it but that's the perception around here in general.Like a lot of things the reality can be quiet different.

People might not agree with the final deal but what would ye change if we could go back over it again?Bearing in mind that its a deal for the whole country and all farmers ,not just those in certain areas or specific types of land quality or farming systems plus don't forget the basic ground rules set out by the EU ever before the horse trading started.

Timmaay

I'm in a partnership with my father the last few years (less than 5 yrs), with my name on his herd number. Where does that leave me in terms of TAMS2 or any of the national reserve?

amacca

paddysdream wrote: »

Shouldn't answer this but here goes!!

Where are all these "big boys" on 80k?There are a lot less than you think.
Average is about 10k so for everyone over this there is someone with less.
On average a farmer with 80k(at 500 per hectare) would be farming in excess of 400 acres and that size farm aint that common.

there are three around me that I know of (6-7k radius) I don't know what their total acreage is but I know the money they were on due to that eu thing that forced the total payouts to be published a couple of years back

but I take your point to an extent - its not really this that pisses me off, its the fact I wasn't allowed get entitlements because I paid my parents fair rent for the land (I couldn't for the life of me see any logic in this only exclusion of as many people as possible)

its also now the fact that years later I find myself excluded as well…..am I not in business like a lot of other farmers….why do I find myself excluded again

paddysdream wrote: »

How did (does) renting the farm from your parents stop you from buying entitlements and did you not take the entitlements with the land or were there none on it? Genuine question.

What stopped me from buying them in the first instance was lack of money and unwillingness to borrow for something that a lot of others were going to get handed to them for free

what stopped me in the second instance was not being sure if it would be a good decision or not given the way terms and conditions change etc etc…fear i suppose (and an ingrained distrust of the powers that be given the way things tend to pan out when I do listen to the prevailing opinion and stump up for things - telecom/eircom, irish nationwide[damp squib] etc etc - not farming related i know but once burned twice shy)

what stopped me in the third instance was a distinct lack of information of what the terms and conditions of the new scheme were going to be and whether it would be beneficial or a loss making exercise to buy entitlements in the run up to the new cap (from 3yrs before to now) - ffs they still don't know if this scottish derogation thing is actually going to go ahead - payment rates aren't known for sure yet although it seems to be around what I quoted afaik, its hard to make a decision when you have **** all info due to the way things are run

renting itself also deprived me of cash to buy entitlements with there are probably other factors - anger at the imo ridiculuous unfairness of the thing….I know you shouldn't let anger cloud decisions but the whole reason I was excluded in the first place pisses me off…I pay a fair market rent for my land and that excludes me from receiving entitlements? someone else gets it for free and they can have it……..wtf?

paddysdream wrote: »

Awful lot of grumbling now but where were people when this was being trashed out over the last few years?

In drystock and tillage farming the best paying part of the year is filling in the single payment form,cattle,sheep or grain prices are a poor second.

Looking at it from an Eastern seaboard point of view,the feeling around here is that too many concessions were given by, and cuts taken by,lowland farmers in the south and east to support those on the western seaboard.I may not agree with it but that's the perception around here in general.Like a lot of things the reality can be quiet different.

I contacted anyone I could (believe me) to know avail. I didn't join the IFA because I don't think they work for small farmers tbh

Not sure what else I could have done…I'm sure with the benefit of hindsight I'll be told though.

paddysdream wrote: »

People might not agree with the final deal but what would ye change if we could go back over it again?Bearing in mind that its a deal for the whole country and all farmers ,not just those in certain areas or specific types of land quality or farming systems plus don't forget the basic ground rules set out by the EU ever before the horse trading started.

I think its obvious what I would change - excluding people from a system and giving others unfair competitive advantage on the basis of them paying fair market rate for the ground they farm

rangler1

I've been at loads of IFA branch meetings and when it comes to the election of branch officers, all you get is refusal to take positions and smart remarks......you can't expect representation if no one of your age takes positions.
I've been a county officer since before I was forty, and if something is in my interest, I drive it on the best I can,
Most young farmers are walking into a farm developed by their father and won't be supporting any drive to reduce their entitlements to give to others either, wonder is their any figures as to what percentage of young farmers aren't walking into a well developed, well subsidised farm, I wouldn't say there's too many, you mightn't have the support that you think you have......I know a few young farmer that are really going to cash in on the subsidy top up and 60% grants .
Farm organisations are very much what you make them, makes no difference to me at this stage, but you'll need representation in govt/ Europe in years to come.
there's huge concesions for young farmers, tax and stamp duty relief on farm transfers, 100% stock relief, tax relief on leases to make land available,etc we would always consider macras requirements in our budget submission

Nettleman

paddysdream wrote: »

Awful lot of grumbling now but where were people when this was being trashed out over the last few years?.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/young-farmers-feel-sacrificed-in-cap-reform-deal-29144618.html

ellewood

rangler1 wrote: »

I've been at loads of IFA branch meetings and when it comes to the election of branch officers, all you get is refusal to take positions and smart remarks......you can't expect representation if no one of your age takes positions.
I've been a county officer since before I was forty, and if something is in my interest, I drive it on the best I can,
Most young farmers are walking into a farm developed by their father and won't be supporting any drive to reduce their entitlements to give to others either, wonder is their any figures as to what percentage of young farmers aren't walking into a well developed, well subsidised farm, I wouldn't say there's too many, you mightn't have the support that you think you have......I know a few young farmer that are really going to cash in on the subsidy top up and 60% grants .
Farm organisations are very much what you make them, makes no difference to me at this stage, but you'll need representation in govt/ Europe in years to come.
there's huge concesions for young farmers, tax and stamp duty relief on farm transfers, 100% stock relief, tax relief on leases to make land available,etc we would always consider macras requirements in our budget submission

I think its unfair to say that no young farmers drove this issue on at the time, I joined IFA and brought it to the highest level I could and in fairness to them they done all they could, I also hounded councilors, Tds and Mep's for 2 years again nadda. Of course Id have been better off 100 times over to just go out and borrow to buy entitlements in 2008 and only get a small amount of stock id have my money back twice/trice over at this stage, and a lot less work done, but I was holding out for Nat reserve and by 2011 most were advising not to buy as they may become worthless when change came - I bought anyways!!

Id agreee most young farmers get everything handed to them maybe too easily farms stocked with machinery SFP stock housing etc but I didnt I started out with nothing - and I still have most of that left:D- all land rented no stock no machinery no SfP but that was my choice, but when I made that that choice there was supposed to be Nat reserv, installation aid and shed grants - all of which fell through just after I started hell they even cut the Reps ( the only few pound I was getting handy off them by 17% a few weeks after I started into it) It was just a hell of a lot of money that was supposed to be there to help a lad make a start just when he needed the most - when trying to get things off the ground.
But thats in the past I cant do anything bout that now but its just another kick in the hole if lads well under 40 but started over 5 yrs ago are going to be shafted again, all for wanting to get going and working hard since 2008 and lads startring now get all the benifit - by taking money from my SFP which I bought and paid for with hard work and giving it to lads starting off
There was an article in the Findo a month or 2 back detailing how lads starting off now if they have max hec 90 I thing with top ups 60% grants etc will get something like E20K year over the 5 years sher how bad and fair play to them if its there maximise it is what I say.

Yes there are lots of concessions for young farmers available now but there werent to many of them available the last few years, even the 100% stock relief was no good to me the first few years as numbers were falling not increasing to pay bills I could do with the last few years tho but got the 25%

Id be happy if I just got the 60% buildings top up (20% extra for being a young farmer) anything at this stage would be a bonus I dont even have much left to do building wise because I have done a good bit the last few years without grant at prob the same cost anyways but it would be nice to say ya got something fot being a young trained farmer...

ellewood

feels like a slap in the face after all the bull**** that went before and watching lads up the road on 80k payments and being excluded because I paid parents fair market rent rather than a "nominal" value for the land

Theres plenty around me with 50K and above payments and I genuinely say no bother, all of them are still working as hard if not harder than they did in reference years anyways I never worry about what other lads are getting, but yes to be excluded from nat reserve for something as stupid as paying going rate as opposed to nominal fee would piss anyone off.

einn32

I don't really see how the RDP adresses the biggest issue with farming in Ireland- the age profile. Yes it has incentives for long term leases, land transfer and young farmers but I don't think these will suffice to get land in to the hands of young guys who want to actually go and farm and progress the industry. There are too many people sitting on land letting it waste away with no intention of ever giving it to someone to farm it long term.

rangler1

einn32 wrote: »

I don't really see how the RDP adresses the biggest issue with farming in Ireland- the age profile. Yes it has incentives for long term leases, land transfer and young farmers but I don't think these will suffice to get land in to the hands of young guys who want to actually go and farm and progress the industry. There are too many people sitting on land letting it waste away with no intention of ever giving it to someone to farm it long term.

I wonder how many young people are prepared to put the hours/work in, I see plenty well developed farms being walked away from too, also see young farmers who've been given developed farms that have done nothing since they took it over....in other words they wouldn't have survived had they needed to stock it and develop it. all I'm saying is all the wasters aren't over 60

Nettleman

The educational requirements imposed on young farmers are also unfair. If all the over 60's had to do the greencert to get their SFP, then I could maybe accept the education piece being a bit fair. way it is, definite age discrimination IMO

Bullocks

Nettleman wrote: »

The educational requirements imposed on young farmers are also unfair. If all the over 60's had to do the greencert to get their SFP, then I could maybe accept the education piece being a bit fair. way it is, definite age discrimination IMO

I'm in that boat , 31 and no green cert . So don't reckon I'm entitled to shag all . It's a pity as I've been farming for years at home but never put my name to anything .
I should've really done the green cert when I left school but didn't (that's my own fault )

What is there for unqualified farmers ?

Shannonsurfer1

If the issues is to be resolved, this 25% top up should revert back the to date when the installation aid was disbanded (2008). Hence any young trained farmer who commenced farming post 2008 should be eligible for the national reserve...

Two fictional scenarios here.

Person 1... Agricultural Holding X amount of acres... Land is farmed by father over there years , son/daughter focus on a career which its path diverges from agriculture... Cut to 2015 opportunity knocks, father would like to retire, son/daughter apply for a level 6 green cert and get joint names on the farm accounts....Befits include - 25% top up
- New entitlements if additional land is bought or rented
- 60% For farm infrastructure

Person 2.. .Agricultural Holding X amount of acres... Land is farmed by father over there years , son/daughter have a strong interest in perusing a career in Agriculture... Cut to 2008, father would like to retire, son/daughter apply for a herd number and obtain an degree in Agriculture, farm is leased, transferred or they enter a partnership ....Befits include - 0% top up
- No new entitlements
- 40% For farm infrastructure

Two extremes here but person 1 could be aged 39, person 2 aged 24... What's the point of an incentive to encourage young trained people into agriculture if it isn't targeted at the right demo graph.

IMO. When a son/daughter takes over running of a family farm (big or small, developed or not) its a great opportunity... Its up to the individual themselves to make something of it

rangler1

Bullocks wrote: »

I'm in that boat , 31 and no green cert . So don't reckon I'm entitled to shag all . It's a pity as I've been farming for years at home but never put my name to anything .
I should've really done the green cert when I left school but didn't (that's my own fault )

What is there for unqualified farmers ?

I think we've got a concession that if you haven't the green cert but comply other ways, you will be considered as a young farmer if you start your coarse before the 1st sept. 2016

ellewood

rangler1 wrote: »

I wonder how many young people are prepared to put the hours/work in, I see plenty well developed farms being walked away from too, also see young farmers who've been given developed farms that have done nothing since they took it over....in other words they wouldn't have survived had they needed to stock it and develop it. all I'm saying is all the wasters aren't over 60

Well if they cant/wont put in the effort with what supports are there from this year on ... what can ya do

+ there are plenty of ould lads over 40 well able for work :-):-)

Nettleman

ellewood wrote: »

Well if they cant/wont put in the effort with what supports are there from this year on ... what can ya do

+ there are plenty of ould lads over 40 well able for work :-):-)

they should be made do the greencert for their payments too.
I bet there would be uproar if that suggestion was put up. Not enough people voting at younger age, so we get walked on.
I am definitely putting my vote down next time on min. for tanks, and the former IFA leader still looking to run in Kilkenny.
the 60% grants will be a waste of time, as the unnecessary specs will be too expensive. :rolleyes:

ellewood

rangler1 wrote: »

I wonder how many young people are prepared to put the hours/work in, I see plenty well developed farms being walked away from too, also see young farmers who've been given developed farms that have done nothing since they took it over....in other words they wouldn't have survived had they needed to stock it and develop it. all I'm saying is all the wasters aren't over 60

Well if they cant/wont put in the effort with what supports are there from this year on ... what can ya do

+ there are plenty of ould lads over 40 well able for work :-):-)

rangler1

Nettleman wrote: »

they should be made do the greencert for their payments too.
I bet there would be uproar if that suggestion was put up. Not enough people voting at younger age, so we get walked on.
I am definitely putting my vote down next time on min. for tanks, and the former IFA leader still looking to run in Kilkenny.
the 60% grants will be a waste of time, as the unnecessary specs will be too expensive. :rolleyes:

I'd imagine the majority of us have done the equivalent of green certs,

Nettleman

rangler1 wrote: »

I'd imagine the majority of us have done the equivalent of green certs,

Lets see it then. Suppose you will tell us just to write in and tell DAFM that we have done the equivalent too.

Bullocks

rangler1 wrote: »

I think we've got a concession that if you haven't the green cert but comply other ways, you will be considered as a young farmer if you start your coarse before the 1st sept. 2016

I won't have an option of taking time off to do a course at this stage I'm afraid . I had the option after the leaving cert but hopped on the celtic tiger instead so I'm blaming myself really , and I can understand that a line has to be drawn somewhere as to who they can hand out grants and topups to or every farmers child would be drawing them down willy nilly .

Let's say the father handed farm and all entitlements to me in the morn and I'm suddenly farming full time , I'm still not considered a farmer in order to apply for grants because I'm not trained , is there an upper age limit where this trained farmer criteria isn't necessary ? Or say I take over the farm full time for a few years , after a few years will I be considered as eligible as my 63 yr old father is for grants and schemes even though he has no green cert either ?

I agree rangler that boys in your age group are as educated now without training as a 20 yr old just out of the green cert course . Experience must count for something

rangler1

Nettleman wrote: »

Lets see it then. Suppose you will tell us just to write in and tell DAFM that we have done the equivalent too.

National certificate in Agriculture and 100 hour agriculture course here anyway, a lot of my vintage would have done those two plus 35 yrs managing a farm, which a new entrant wouldn't have

rangler1

Bullocks wrote: »

I won't have an option of taking time off to do a course at this stage I'm afraid . I had the option after the leaving cert but hopped on the celtic tiger instead so I'm blaming myself really , and I can understand that a line has to be drawn somewhere as to who they can hand out grants and topups to or every farmers child would be drawing them down willy nilly .

Let's say the father handed farm and all entitlements to me in the morn and I'm suddenly farming full time , I'm still not considered a farmer in order to apply for grants because I'm not trained , is there an upper age limit where this trained farmer criteria isn't necessary ? Or say I take over the farm full time for a few years , after a few years will I be considered as eligible as my 63 yr old father is for grants and schemes even though he has no green cert either ?

I agree rangler that boys in your age group are as educated now without training as a 20 yr old just out of the green cert course . Experience must count for something

If you have a job ( any job) you're financially better off than the majority of farmers

Nettleman

rangler1 wrote: »

If you have a job ( any job) you're financially better off than the majority of farmers

and if your high up in IFA, your minted !!!!:P:P:P

eire23

rangler1 wrote: »

I think we've got a concession that if you haven't the green cert but comply other ways, you will be considered as a young farmer if you start your coarse before the 1st sept. 2016

This. finnished the green cert this september but wont actually have the piece of paper in my hand till next march or april next year according to teagasc but ill still be eligible for the top up and applying to the national reserve this year. Need to get the ball rolling soon actually!

rangler1

eire23 wrote: »

This. finnished the green cert this september but wont actually have the piece of paper in my hand till next march or april next year according to teagasc but ill still be eligible for the top up and applying to the national reserve this year. Need to get the ball rolling soon actually!

Yea go for it, they don't expect enough young farmers to apply to use the allotted amount of money so it should be simple to get

eire23

rangler1 wrote: »

Yea go for it, they don't expect enough young farmers to apply to use the allotted amount of money so it should be simple to get

Aye and at the end of the day its the price of a stamp and if your not in, you cant win.

Nettleman

eire23 wrote: »

Aye and at the end of the day its the price of a stamp and if your not in, you cant win.

applications must be done online me tinks

eire23

Nettleman wrote: »

applications must be done online me tinks

Correct nettleman, just looked it up there. It will save the price of the stamp!

whitetail

Hi i rented the farm from my parents in 09 missed out on Installation Grant now out of reps 4 and in limbo again done my Green cert in 09, contacted ifa as we are members since Day one got no call or email back. I am 33 and farm in the West went to all meetings and at each Meeting ifa representatives gave no help. Sorry for Harping on but very little help available!

Nettleman

whitetail wrote: »

Hi i rented the farm from my parents in 09 missed out on Installation Grant now out of reps 4 and in limbo again done my Green cert in 09, contacted ifa as we are members since Day one got no call or email back. I am 33 and farm in the West went to all meetings and at each Meeting ifa representatives gave no help. Sorry for Harping on but very little help available!

Rangler1, can you help this lad, he and his family have sent money IFA direction for long time, and like me, felt IFA didn't want to know.

djmc

rangler1 wrote: »

I'd imagine the majority of us have done the equivalent of green certs,

I did green cert in 92 brother in his 50s did a year in pallaskenry in 1981 probably some farmers in there 60s have green cert by now
How long are at collages on the go now I see gurteen collage open in 1947 there first students would be over 90 by now http://www.teagasc.ie/training/colleges/mountbellew/
Opened in 1904

rangler1

Nettleman wrote: »

Rangler1, can you help this lad, he and his family have sent money IFA direction for long time, and like me, felt IFA didn't want to know.

It wasn't for the want of trying that we couldn't get the government to accommodate those that missed out, I usually direct new farmers to teagasc/consultant, or alternatively farm assist if the farm isn't viable, we're in a recession now there's going to be no free money. When did we get the first commitment to the famous 500million RDP and shag all paid out yet.

paddysdream

Lots of points(400 ewes housed today and waiting for the spuds to boil so a few mins!!)

As regards the age profile/transfer issue;well what else can anyone do?
If the existing farmer is unwilling to hand over the reins then short of compulsary transfer of land to son and transfer of auld lad to nursing home what else do people need.
If someone doesn't want to hand over or lease out their land then isn't that their own business?

Regarding green cert etc ,well would assume any farmer under 60 would have it done as ag. colleges were popular since the late 60's.
If someone isn't willing to spend the time to actually get it (not exactly time consuming or brain taxing to be fair) in order to be(in EU/Dept. eyes anyways) qualified to inherit and run an asset worth an average of 500k and in many cases a lot more then what can one say?

Lot of the rules are designed with the average situation in mind and although there will always be exceptions these are exactly that, ie exceptions.

Bullocks

rangler1 wrote: »

If you have a job ( any job) you're financially better off than the majority of farmers

I have a job alright and will be keeping it but if in the morning I had to take over I wouldn't be classed as anyways qualified to apply for grants to improve things .
What would be handy for qualifying for a green cert would be to have exams once a year and learn the books at home when you get the free time . Make it a hard and detailed exam that would make sure you knew your stuff by the time you pass it .

I'm not particularly worried about my own situation as I said it was my own how do that never did the cert when I had the chance and I have a job anyhow but just something I was thinking about for lads in a similar situation that wouldn't now have a hope of taking time out to do the course

amacca

paddysdream wrote: »

Lots of points(400 ewes housed today and waiting for the spuds to boil so a few mins!!)

As regards the age profile/transfer issue;well what else can anyone do?
If the existing farmer is unwilling to hand over the reins then short of compulsary transfer of land to son and transfer of auld lad to nursing home what else do people need.
If someone doesn't want to hand over or lease out their land then isn't that their own business?

Regarding green cert etc ,well would assume any farmer under 60 would have it done as ag. colleges were popular since the late 60's.
If someone isn't willing to spend the time to actually get it (not exactly time consuming or brain taxing to be fair) in order to be(in EU/Dept. eyes anyways) qualified to inherit and run an asset worth an average of 500k and in many cases a lot more then what can one say?

Lot of the rules are designed with the average situation in mind and although there will always be exceptions these are exactly that, ie exceptions.

what about my exception?…..what do you think of that?……just asking.

(to my mind i was ****ed over in the past and now the criteria continue to do just that - why not if you were never in receipt of entitlements before... then shouldn't you be allowed in this time if you are trained and running a farm …just like the other farmers - + why should someone who has just started recently get all the benefits over someone who has had the bad timing to start around five years ago - the person that started 5 year ago has had to struggle with little or no help for five years …why can't they enter the system as a new entrant if the satisfy age and qualification criteria without the five previous years being subtracted leaving them with zip - do you know the rationale behind this? - is there some sort of scam they are trying to prevent or are they just trying to preserve as big a pot of cash as possible for those already in receipt)

AP2014

Bullocks wrote: »

I have a job alright and will be keeping it but if in the morning I had to take over I wouldn't be classed as anyways qualified to apply for grants to improve things .
What would be handy for qualifying for a green cert would be to have exams once a year and learn the books at home when you get the free time . Make it a hard and detailed exam that would make sure you knew your stuff by the time you pass it .

I'm not particularly worried about my own situation as I said it was my own how do that never did the cert when I had the chance and I have a job anyhow but just something I was thinking about for lads in a similar situation that wouldn't now have a hope of taking time out to do the course

Exactly, in this day and age learn remotely and take the exam. You can do a degree via distance learning so why not this. A few Saturdays and practicals could be complete.

ellewood

amacca wrote: »

what about my exception?…..what do you think of that?……just asking.

(to my mind i was ****ed over in the past and now the criteria continue to do just that - why not if you were never in receipt of entitlements before... then shouldn't you be allowed in this time if you are trained and running a farm …just like the other farmers - + why should someone who has just started recently get all the benefits over someone who has had the bad timing to start around five years ago - the person that started 5 year ago has had to struggle with little or no help for five years …why can't they enter the system as a new entrant if the satisfy age and qualification criteria without the five previous years being subtracted leaving them with zip - do you know the rationale behind this? - is there some sort of scam they are trying to prevent or are they just trying to preserve as big a pot of cash as possible for those already in receipt)

+1

Most have qualification or its not that hard to get

What I and amacca feel as above that if ya didnt get anything last time, for whatever reason, and ya are still a young farmer - but have been farming 5 or 6 years why disqualify this time round on that basis alone ???

Username John

AP2014 wrote: »

Exactly, in this day and age learn remotely and take the exam. You can do a degree via distance learning so why not this. A few Saturdays and practicals could be complete.

I did the online version when it started first. It was a bit if a farce - 6 days in college I think. But it was almost aimed at lads taking over that wanted to reduce tax and not learn anything about farming. I heard it was macra that objected to it, and then it was changed so it was more intensive...

AP2014

Username John wrote: »

I did the online version when it started first. It was a bit if a farce - 6 days in college I think. But it was almost aimed at lads taking over that wanted to reduce tax and not learn anything about farming. I heard it was macra that objected to it, and then it was changed so it was more intensive...

Reckon that line could cover 70% of farmers! I would love to do the online version. If you have under 60 acres how could you justify taking a year or whatever it is in ag college? Lets face it the SFP application is the most important part of must farms anyway.

eire23

Username John wrote: »

I did the online version when it started first. It was a bit if a farce - 6 days in college I think. But it was almost aimed at lads taking over that wanted to reduce tax and not learn anything about farming. I heard it was macra that objected to it, and then it was changed so it was more intensive...

Im doing it one day a week in the local teagasc centre, it still wouldnt be too intensive. The brain cells definitely wouldn't be fried anyways. Its more of a box tickin exercise tbh

Nettleman

eire23 wrote: »

Im doing it one day a week in the local teagasc centre, it still wouldnt be too intensive. The brain cells definitely wouldn't be fried anyways. Its more of a box tickin exercise tbh

aye, but your 2 grand poorer

eire23

Nettleman wrote: »

aye, but your 2 grand poorer

Nah twas 500 for me as i hadnt done a trade or such so fetac subsadise the rest.

Nettleman

eire23 wrote: »

Nah twas 500 for me as i hadnt done a trade or such so fetac subsadise the rest.

tell more????

Username John

AP2014 wrote: »

Reckon that line could cover 70% of farmers! I would love to do the online version. If you have under 60 acres how could you justify taking a year or whatever it is in ag college? Lets face it the SFP application is the most important part of must farms anyway.

There is an online version still AP, but I think its up on 15 - 20 practical days now. Have a look here

Regarding the qualification, it depends on what way you look at it.

Just because you are part-time, does that mean you should know less, or there should be less expectations of your education?

To be honest, whilst the few days off suited me, at the same time, I was a bit disappointed too that the course was so dull / uninteresting. I was only in my first job at the time, so taking time off wasn't that big a thing for me at the time...

EDIT : Are there any online courses that are accepted as Fetac level 6, so would be the same thing as the Teagasc course? Maybe the Open University do something, that might offer lads the online element, but maybe not the same number of days off? Just a thought...

eire23

Nettleman wrote: »

tell more????

Anyone that had 3rd level or an apprenticeship done had to pay the 2000,
Some lads were nearly finished their apprenticeship when they started so i dont know how they faired out. Things might have changed now though....

AP2014

Username John wrote: »

There is an online version still AP, but I think its up on 15 - 20 practical days now. Have a look here

Regarding the qualification, it depends on what way you look at it.

Just because you are part-time, does that mean you should know less, or there should be less expectations of your education?

To be honest, whilst the few days off suited me, at the same time, I was a bit disappointed too that the course was so dull / uninteresting. I was only in my first job at the time, so taking time off wasn't that big a thing for me at the time...

EDIT : Are there any online courses that are accepted as Fetac level 6, so would be the same thing as the Teagasc course? Maybe the Open University do something, that might offer lads the online element, but maybe not the same number of days off? Just a thought...

Thanks, that's alot of practical days. I'm not sure of the cost of the course but I heard it is expensive. To be honest I only see it as a serious bureaucratic load of dung. It keeps teagasc and dinosaur ag colleges in business.

What do I get out of the course? In reality its dull and uninteresting it seems and won't improve anyones farming practices in a major way. Nothing you can't learn from a book as it's not rocket science.

The big selling point of the qualification is it allows you to apply for sfp top ups and grants. I reckon that says it all about these courses and the NEED to be a young qualified farmer. QUALIFIED to claim extra grants!