Ireland is no longer neutral

Kermit.de.frog

Not after this anyway

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/ireland-and-uk-agree-historic-defence-agreement-1.2062356

Giving training to the British army? We get their excess equipment for free?

Leaving aside the fact "neutrality" is a bit of a running joke given our actual alliances but this surely buries the notion once and for all.

Another aspect of the agreement provides that the Irish Army will be provided, free of charge, with equipment that is surplus to the requirements of the British army.

Grand so. We'll take that aircraft carrier they have no planes for.

The Bould Rabbit

Good. Neutrality is a cop out.

Time we joined NATO.

degsie

Yup. We have moved from 'neutral' to 'live'.

Kevin McCloud

degsie wrote: »

Yup. We have moved from 'neutral' to 'live'.

Be earth next.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

"Irish peacekeepers on patrol in Lebanon. The British army does not have experience in such operations."

Hah! A shly dig at the Brits from the Irish Times of all periodicals.

wretcheddomain

degsie wrote: »

Yup. We have moved from 'neutral' to 'live'.

Kevin McCloud wrote: »

Be earth next.

For plug sake...

My name is URL

Ireland was never neutral.

Look up 'triple lock mechanism'

The Bould Rabbit wrote: »

Good. Neutrality is a cop out.

No it isn't. Taking and maintaining a position of 'neutrality' is more difficult and more beneficial than automatically siding with anyone.

K4t

You can only remain neutral as long as you have the option of doing so.

The_Valeyard

The Bould Rabbit wrote: »

Good. Neutrality is a cop out.

Time we joined NATO.

Nope.

shruikan2553

Indeed, now when the British army peace keeps its way into a foreign country the locals will be blaming Ireland for making them so peaceful.

Kermit.de.frog

K4t wrote: »

You can only remain neutral as long as you have the option of doing so.

Which we don't because we can't defend our neutrality.

Having said that the Swiss also have a warped notion of their own neutrality for example. In fact I can't think of a single country now that is genuinely neutral and can defend that neutrality.

Gatling

Its actually a great deal ,the British have tons of equipment from Afghanistan vehicles and such which could save the defence forces a fortune in the short and long term

Qualitymark

The Bould Rabbit wrote: »

Good. Neutrality is a cop out.

Not in the least; it's the only moral position.

Irish troops have taken part in many peacekeeping missions, keeping warring sides apart and keeping civilians safe, but we have never joined a war of aggression. That's what neutrality means.

Gatling

Qualitymark wrote: »

Not in the least; it's the only moral position.

Irish troops have taken part in many peacekeeping missions, keeping warring sides apart and keeping civilians safe, but we have never joined a war of aggression. That's what neutrality means.

Wonder if that lads currently in Afghanistan will be driving home in some nice new armour

Kermit.de.frog

wretcheddomain wrote: »

For plug sake...

That is so bad it's good

Ken.

Take it from someone that knows. During the last 20 years military personal from damn near every African nation bar South Africa have done officer and U.N. training in Ireland. Soldiers from the Scandinavian countries have done U.N. training in Ireland. Its nothing new.

somefeen

Qualitymark wrote: »

Not in the least; it's the only moral position.

Irish troops have taken part in many peacekeeping missions, keeping warring sides apart and keeping civilians safe, but we have never joined a war of aggression. That's what neutrality means.

I wouldnt say it was moral to look at the likes of ISIL and say "Yeah well we are entirely neutral on this"

I was thinking about this earlier today. Its time Ireland stood up to the plate and started actually taking a stance on world issues.

blatantrereg

Ireland's neutrality has always been based on the fact that other countries, especially the UK, would defend us if there was need to do so.
The threat to the UK from a hostile force occupying Ireland would be too great to ignore.

PizzamanIRL

The Irish training the English to keep the peace? Ha. HA!

McDermotX

somefeen wrote: »

I wouldnt say it was moral to look at the likes of ISIL and say "Yeah well we are entirely neutral on this"

I was thinking about this earlier today. Its time Ireland stood up to the plate and started actually taking a stance on world issues.

Agreed................Let's fu*k everyone up !!

Smidge

Afaik, Ireland hasn't been neutral for a long time.
Badge on the uniform?

djflawless

F#ck neutrality!!
The world's w@nked because of nations standing up, or 'peace keeping' others.
Its just fancy talk for 'hey go peace keeping there and be ready for whoever we sanity to rib.
Join Putin and let's wreck the place

pmasterson95

Oh goody. Bring on the muslim terrorists they love the brits.

Mr. G

The IRish Defense Forces are training the Grits on peacekeeping. Nothing more. That doesn't make us a not neutral country.

Jawgap

The Bould Rabbit wrote: »

Good. Neutrality is a cop out.

Time we joined NATO.

Nope - we can't afford it, nor do we need it.

Desolation Of Smug

I dunno how I feel about all this, I suppose I'm fairly neutral towards the idea.

Zebra3

somefeen wrote: »

I wouldnt say it was moral to look at the likes of ISIL and say "Yeah well we are entirely neutral on this"

I was thinking about this earlier today. Its time Ireland stood up to the plate and started actually taking a stance on world issues.

So which bunch of murderous criminals do you reckon we should start bombing tomorrow?

The Russians? Israelis? Americans?

Or just different coloured people who follow a particular faith?

Capt'n Midnight

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Which we don't because we can't defend our neutrality.

Having said that the Swiss also have a warped notion of their own neutrality for example. In fact I can't think of a single country now that is genuinely neutral and can defend that neutrality.

Sweden.

The have some serious home grown kit.

In part their neutrality means they can sell arms to both sides.

silverharp

we are not a sovereign country anyway , the only purpose of this state is to pay back European bondholders so the question is moot.

whisky_galore

We were never neutral, like local politics, we just cosy up to whatever country that will 'look after' us.

Streetwalker

Gatling wrote: »

Its actually a great deal ,the British have tons of equipment from Afghanistan vehicles and such which could save the defence forces a fortune in the short and long term

Machines that where used to kill and slaughter innocents all over that nation. No thanks.

chrysagon

I think Shannon been used as a stopever raises questions about neutrality.... as well as cash!

BBDBB

Naaah

We're just the cook*





*Courtesy Seagal quotes

Cee-Jay-Cee

So what if we're not as neutral as we used to be. It makes no difference to anyone at the end of the day.

Saipanne

silverharp wrote: »

we are not a sovereign country anyway , the only purpose of this state is to pay back European bondholders so the question is moot.

What a incredibly stupid comment.

Fratton Fred

Streetwalker wrote: »

Machines that where used to kill and slaughter innocents all over that nation. No thanks.

Innocents?

The school in Peshawar where the Taliban killed 133 children 're-opens today.

namloc1980

I thought we were non-aligned as opposed to neutral. They are very different things.

Dravokivich

namloc1980 wrote: »

I thought we were non-aligned as opposed to neutral. They are very different things.

I don't know about that. During WW2 we were rather aligned towards the allied forces.

Fratton Fred

namloc1980 wrote: »

I thought we were non-aligned as opposed to neutral. They are very different things.

Then there's the small matter of the Nordic Battle Group

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_Battle_Group

namloc1980

Dravokivich wrote: »

I don't know about that. During WW2 we were rather aligned towards the allied forces.

That's what non-aligned is. You're not part of military power blocs such as NATO, Allies etc. but it does allow you to provide support to them in terms of logistics etc. Neutrality means you stay out of it no matter what.

Augmerson

The Bould Rabbit wrote: »

Good. Neutrality is a cop out.

Time we joined NATO.

Can't afford to. We spend amongst the least on defence in all of Europe. We spend as much on defence as Andorra.

Andorra is a landlocked principality between Spain and France. It is 468km2.

Ireland has 1,448 km of coastline, on the edge of the Atlantic. It is 70,273 km2.

Elmer Blooker

Zebra3 wrote: »

So which bunch of murderous criminals do you reckon we should start bombing tomorrow?

The Russians? Israelis? Americans?

Or just different coloured people who follow a particular faith?

..... the terrorists are the ones with the little bombs ....

Brendan Behan

Jawgap

Dravokivich wrote: »

I don't know about that. During WW2 we were rather aligned towards the allied forces.

As a Garda said at the time when questioned why he had helped refuel an RAF flying boat instead of interning its crew - "I knew we were neutral, but I wasn't sure who were neutral against."

Dublin Red Devil

We have always been one of the first on our knees to suck some American military dick

Fukuyama

This thread is a joke. According to some, we're either gearing up to invade a country full of helpless brown people, inviting the British back in or merely giving in to "bondholders". :rolleyes:

If it wasn't for the UK giving us kit, Ireland would have never even had an army for most of the 20th century.

Virtually all of the Free States kit came from the UK - armored cars, rifles, boots, artillery and uniforms. During the Emergency, they gave us second-hand tanks, training, AA guns and a few naval vessels.

During the troubles we still sourced most things from the UK like vehicles and equipment. And it was no coincidence that we chose the same SLR (FAL) rifle as them. Nor was it a coincidence that we switched to a bullpop style rifle thereafter when they did.

And a load of training is given to Irish officers at Sandhurst year round.

This sounds like a great deal for Ireland and a fantastic achievement for the DoD - one of the few departments that was actually able to cut its budget and keep it that way. The UK has warehouses of armored troop vehicles, comms equipment and god knows what else fancy, hi-tech equipment. They're scaling down big-time after Afghanistan and Iraq. Lots of stuff was bought and barely got taken out of the box. So Ireland gets great 21st century equipment for free (basically).

I also wouldn't discount the experience Ireland can pass on when it comes to peacekeeping. We're one of the few countries still sticking it out in the Golan Heights. Austria pulled out and Ireland had to fill the void. Since then, several other forces have left the area and are "observing" from across the fence in Israel. I'm no expert but it seems this is one area where Ireland might have a thing or two up it's sleeve and it's definitely worth teaching.

Tony EH

The Bould Rabbit wrote: »

Good. Neutrality is a cop out.

Time we joined NATO.

Will you put your tin hat on and put yourself in the firing line?

If not, then shut the fück up.

Tony EH

blatantrereg wrote: »

Ireland's neutrality has always been based on the fact that other countries, especially the UK, would defend us if there was need to do so.
The threat to the UK from a hostile force occupying Ireland would be too great to ignore.

Ironic, since the ONLY country we've actually needed defending from has been the UK.

:pac:

Gatling

Streetwalker wrote: »

Machines that where used to kill and slaughter innocents all over that nation. No thanks.

You really haven't a clue

Ctrl Alt Delete

Ireland hasnt been neutral for a very long time. Even during WW2 weren't we "neutral" in favor of the allies ?

Tony EH

No, we weren't.

Letting a few RAF pilots slip up the North, because we didn't want the hassle of watching them in the Curragh, is not taking sides.

The Bould Rabbit

Tony EH wrote: »

Will you put your tin hat on and put yourself in the firing line?

If not, then shut the fück up.

Yes I would, no problem.


The title of this thread needs changing to something like "Home for the ill informed and misguided".