Electronic gates operated by mobile phone

Citygirl1

Hi

I am an owner occupier, and committee member, in a multi-unit development, with around sixty units. We have security gates, including a vehicular gate, which is operated by electronic fobs.

Following recent security incidents, it has been suggested that this system be changed, to have the gate operated by mobile phone, rather than fobs. The security system would have the phone numbers of residents pre-programmed, and when a resident reaches the gate, they would activate it by ringing a (freephone?) number.

I understand this system is already in operation in some other developments.

I'd like to understand the pros and cons of this further, and posting here to ask if anyone has direct experience of this system, in a residential development? If so, I'd appreciate if you could give your thoughts on the pros/cons?

One thought I have is that careful controls would be required over the process for adding new numbers to the list (say max of 2 per household).

Del2005

One con I can see is people letting unregistered vehicles in by just ringing the number, at least with a fob they physically have to be there.

Also it could be very expensive as someone will have to pay for the phone calls, from mobiles, to the free phone number.

él statutorio

We had this in my last place.

Your number is registered with the provider so only registered people can open the door. Joe Public can ring the number all he wants, it won't open unless he's on the list.

The problem I had with it was there was very poor mobile reception where I lived and the gate was to an underground car park, I could almost always get into the car park but as I could never get reception underground, so getting out was a pain, as there were no motion sensors in the car park.

It was free or next to free to use, you called a mobile number, it connected and immediately hung up again. It cost a max of 1 cent if it even cost anything at all.

Venus In Furs

I have it here. Don't know if it's programmed to recognise our numbers, you just acquire the number and that's it - it will open the gate when you ring it (I think so anyway) being close to it.
Works fine. It's been in place where I live for... wow, I'd say about six or seven years at this stage when I think about it. I don't recall giving my phone number to the management company for inputting into a database for the gate. Maybe that's a newer thing though.

Only time there's ever been an issue was when the gate's motor was malfunctioning and the phone failed to open it (once or twice ever) but that could happen with any fob. There is a manual code too, as a back-up. And yeh, if phone reception is affected, as mentioned above.

It's well handy - and pretty cool to use your phone to open a gate.
(Yes, it's still a bit of a novelty :pac:).

gctest50

Venus In Furs wrote: »

....
It's well handy - and pretty cool to use your phone to open a gate.
(Yes, it's still a bit of a novelty :pac:).

you need one of these then :

http://www.harveynorman.ie/computing/networking-and-connectivity/belkin-wemo-home-automation-switch.html

turn on your electric blanket on the way home

CollyFlower

I have that system in my complex also. If an apartment owner hasn't paid their management fees or will not agree to a payment plan they don't get the code.

Mrs OBumble

What happens if someone gets sick and you need to get an ambulance In? Or injured and needing a home care worker twice a day?

Venus In Furs

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

What happens if someone gets sick and you need to get an ambulance In? Or injured and needing a home care worker twice a day?

Manual code as back-up. I guess ambulance personnel wouldn't have a fob either. A home care-worker could be given the number I suppose. I changed my phone number a few years ago actually and didn't have to advise anyone of this, could still continue to open the gate with the new number.

MAJJ

Relying on smartphone battery life to get in.

Would need some failsafe I assume.

cocoman

What happens if the battery on your mobile is dead?

Venus In Furs

Maybe I should just keep posting "back-up manual code"?

If you let your battery die, it's kinda your own fault (usually anyway).

Grolschevik

We have that. The residents' numbers are logged to the system. Only registered numbers open the gate. The number rung from an unregistered phone won't open it. The call-answering service notes the call and immediately hangs up. No cost is incurred.

It works perfectly. We can remotely let third parties in, so for a taxi pickup or pizza delivery, you'll need to open it for them.

I don't see a problem with the "potentially letting random strangers in" because
a) Why would you?
b) There's assigned parking and clamping in operation, and
c) Former residents' numbers are removed from the system.

Downside? Only two numbers per unit can be registered at any one time. But there is also a zapper for the underground carpark that opens the external gates too.

Edit: this is for vehicle access. Pedestrian access is facilitated by numeric keypads and fobs.

moc moc a moc

Does anyone proposing this system have any idea how easy it is to spoof caller ID?

Venus In Furs

gctest50 wrote: »

you need one of these then :

http://www.harveynorman.ie/computing/networking-and-connectivity/belkin-wemo-home-automation-switch.html

turn on your electric blanket on the way home

My god, thank you!

I also like those remote control heating dealios, like Nest.

jimmii

moc moc a moc wrote: »

Does anyone proposing this system have any idea how easy it is to spoof caller ID?

This suggests it can make it look like you are calling from any number you want:

http://bluffmycall.com/features/

Article on scammers faking bank numbers:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/money-saving-tips/11192883/Number-spoofing-the-growing-crime-where-conmen-fake-a-banks-phone-number.html

Grolschevik

moc moc a moc wrote: »

Does anyone proposing this system have any idea how easy it is to spoof caller ID?

You need to know the number you're calling in order to spoof caller ID.

So current or former residents would have to give it out to the spoofer. In all fairness, there's as much a danger of copying keys and cloning fobs.

Let's not get all technoparanoid. No property is 100% secure. You just do what you can. More chance of robbers hopping the gates than spoofing caller ID...

ted1

Tbh I think that there is no need for gates.

What was the potential security issue?

How much will the gates cost to install and maintain.
Does this cost exceed the security risk along with the added inconvience to residents?

jaymcg91

We just moved from calling a number to fobs, and it's an absolute pain. Couriers and delivery guys can't get in without us having to go to the gate, whereas we used to be able to call to let them out. Not ideal.

Nino Brown

ted1 wrote: »

Tbh I think that there is no need for gates.

What was the potential security issue?

How much will the gates cost to install and maintain.
Does this cost exceed the security risk along with the added inconvience to residents?

I disagree, I've lived in both gated and non gated complexes, and would choose gated any day.
In the non gated complex we have people driving in and dumping rubbish in our communal bins, people walking through with dogs sh!tting on the green areas. People park their cars here going shopping, or to work. Recently a stolen car was found abandoned in our complex which had damaged another car. And this is in a nice area, I would hate to think what goes on in dodgy areas.
I have lived in gated complexes before without any of these, and the mobile phone system was my favourite, you dial a number, which rejects the call and opens the gate, so it's free to use, if you have an integrated car phone, just say "Dial gates" and they open as if by magic.
Also no danger of losing a fob, which they charge a fortune for, if you lost your phone you get the same number back for free. I would love to return to that system.

salmocab

I worked for a company that installed some of these systems and generally people were happy with them, I think the systems we installed could have a max of 500 numbers registered although some were let get out of hand when people left they weren't taken off but that can easily be done right if the mgt do it right from the start. There is usually still a keypad with a code for opening the gates too but this is usually not known by anyone beyond certain people ( janitor, Bin company, mgt company etc ). If this number is widely known it makes the phone system pointless. Down side is people arriving home without phone or having no credit but I think after a while people are generally on top of this. Don't think they use any credit, you ring then the system hangs up on you and opens the gate. Of course its possible to fool them but its far easier to just walk/drive in behind residents.

usernamegoes

Could you get penalty points for using your phone while driving?

salmocab

usernamegoes wrote: »

Could you get penalty points for using your phone while driving?

Yes, although its quick enough that generally you pull up to the gates and then do it.

uck51js9zml2yt

We used it in work. Our numbers were registered to the system. It was great calling from the traffic lights and the gate open on arrival

Mrs W

We have it too and it's great. All the numbers are programmed in and there's no max on ours either. If someone leaves or if management fees aren't paid they get taken off. When we brought it in we had people who owed years in arrears and now they don't so worth it for that alone!

Sarn

Our development had it installed for a few months. The biggest problem was registering new numbers with the system. The other issue was as we have free parking inside and were in close proximity to the city centre people were letting non-residents in during the day.

As mentioned above having to ensure your phone is charged and to hand is another consideration. It's also a bit slower to get in. Get your phone, unlock it, get the number, call it, wait for it to connect and then the gate opens. Fobs are usually on your car keys and just require a press. Of course if you use voice controls on your phone that process can be simplified.

The upside was that you didn't have to go down to the gate to let someone in.

In the end we went back to using fobs.

Citygirl1

Hi OP here

Thanks all for your feedback, particularly those who have direct experience of the system.

Some very positive feedback here.

jmcg91 and Sarn: I notice you both observed that your developments had moved from using the phone system, to fobs. If possible, could I ask you to elaborate on the reasons why this decision was made? There must have been fairly significant problems with the phone system, to make this move? Also, was it necessary to furnish new fobs to all residents, which would have been costly?

To address a few of the points made:

• We wouldn't have any issues with mobile phone signals.
• We already have the gates (operated by fobs), so this is more a case of changing the mechanism for activating it.

It's a good point that residents could allow people in without being near the gate, so can't keep an eye on exactly who they are admitting, and there would be issues if someone's phone battery is dead.

Paulw

We've had gates from the start. We had problems with fobs - tenants leaving and not returning fobs, new tenants then needing fobs. The cost was a bit silly at times. Some fob systems could only hold so many fobs. The original fobs from when units were bought were not documented, so there was no way of knowing which fobs were attached to which units. So, as the place increased as people came and left, we could only add fobs without knowing which to remove.

So, two years ago, at an AGM, it was voted to replace that whole system with a phone system. We have had no complaints and no issues. There is a keypad backup system for emergencies. The phone system is better controlled. Only recognised numbers can open the gate. We have had a lot less issues since the phone system was put in, and have had no complaints (I'm a director of the management company).

There are pros and cons to every gate system - fob, keypad, phone, etc. None is perfect. But, we have found that the phone system works best for us. The call to open the gate costs nothing. But, yeah, you need to have your phone charges and need credit to make the call (even though the call never connects so you are not charged for the call).

You also need to consider phone reception, and also what phone network your gate system is on. Some operators have more outages than others, and it is generally easier if your own phone is on the same network as the gate phone.

Anyway, we like it and it works well for us.

Sarn

Unfortunately I don't know the reasons behind the switch back. During the period in which we had it the gate spent most of the time open. Given that this had never been the case before the system was installed or after it was removed I can only presume that there was an issue of some kind. My only negative experience was that it took over a week for my number and several others to be registered to the system, despite the numbers being provided well in advance of activation.

One other issue was the older residents mentioned having to get their reading glasses out every time they needed to use their phone which added to the delay getting in or out.

beertons

Any chance of a link to a recommended system?

salmocab

beertons wrote: »

Any chance of a link to a recommended system?

don't have a link but I installed one called gate slave I'm sure if you google that you will find it easy enough

beertons

salmocab wrote: »

don't have a link but I installed one called gate slave I'm sure if you google that you will find it easy enough

Are you paying €25 per year?

salmocab

beertons wrote: »

Are you paying €25 per year?

Sorry to be clear I installed some of these in some apt complexes as an electrician. It was for a company I used to work for so I don't know much about the pricing as I was just the hired help but people seemed to be happy with the system overall once it was installed.