wagon or precisio chop

Masseyman123

well lads. I work on my beef farm of 70 acres and expanding but my question is wich should I buy a silage wagon or a precision chop harvester.we do bales now but used to do pit silage and because of the price of bales I want to go back to pit.we have a good size silage pit and have a run of drain for effulent. currently we are feeding around 50 cattle but are expanding.during the winter I am feeding cattle indoors and outside aswell,. we have a 7 foot mower and a 6 foot aswell as 2 haybobs and a small rake.currently we get a 40acre first cut and 30 off second cut.My question is should I buy a wagon or a precision chop harvester and wich would be better also if it helps are fields are mostly flat with a few hilly fields and they range from around 5-12 acres in size.I will be feeding cattle outside with feed trailers and straight from the shear grab for the cattle indoors.I will not be mixing the silage in a diet feeder either.Could you also recommend a model of wagon/harvester to go with.Power shouldn't be a problem as we have a 130hp Renault a 110hp deutz and a massey 399 and 5445fl wich will have the shear grab.Sorry for such the long post just I wanted to get all the information out there! Any help will be greatly appreciated thanks!

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

Masseyman123

I know it is alot but the farm is expanding and the deutz is being sold soon and I am expecting to buy la d soon. I know any sane person would hire a contractor! But I want to be able to harvest the silage when I want and I want to have my own gear and anyway I also cut some silage for my neighbers around 50 acres

Kovu

Going to move this to main forum Masseyman123 as you'll get a lot more responses

mahoney_j

Don't bother buying either ,all u need is a mower and Tedder,contractor will do the rest .as for pc,wagon or bales definetly wagon or bales.pc silage is chopped too fine,stock love the longer chop of wagon or bales.

Masseyman123

Thanks for the replies I was kind of leaning towards a wagon in the first place and you only need 2 drivers one fro wagon 1 for pit rather than 3 or 4 drawing silage with trailors.could you recommend a certain wagon? I am looking at done deal and there seems to be a lot of krone turbo wagons are they any good?

Masseyman123

I know it would be better to have a contractor do it but all the contractors round here only have big jaguar 980's and its more like dust that comes out of them not silage!

joejobrien

In my op. your better of dealing with a contractor than getting into that kind of gear especially for the acerage involved.
Just as a matter of intrest, the trailed precision can and will chop it longer than a jaguar or any other SP. It will be similar to wagon but obviously shorter than bales.

weatherbyfoxer

Just wondering have you done the financial sum on buying a silage wagon???....personally id cant see any problem with good quality rye grass cut and processed with a contractors claas jaguar.if your getting dust maybe consider getting him to come sooner to pick up...with 40 acres 1st cut and 30 2nd you would be a valuable customer to any silage contractor so should be able to negotiate which day to pick up

Deepsouthwest

How much more expensive are bales? I'm giving serious consideration to switching from PC to bales. I'm convinced cows do better on bales.

frazzledhome

Deepsouthwest wrote: »

How much more expensive are bales? I'm giving serious consideration to switching from PC to bales. I'm convinced cows do better on bales.

Same here. Don't bale water and bales are the cheapest way to make and move silage. 300kgs dm can be got into bales 17 on trailer

Markcheese

Deepsouthwest wrote: »

How much more expensive are bales? I'm giving serious consideration to switching from PC to bales. I'm convinced cows do better on bales.

Is that because the grass going in is better - lads taking out paddocks-wilting it well and baling at right time -

Masseyman123

Another option if iwas going to stay with bales my neighbor has a baler I could loan for a few days and I could wrap them because we bring all the bales in ourselfs so maybe I should pick up a wrapper and stay with bales what ye think

Deepsouthwest

Masseyman123 wrote: »

Another option if iwas going to stay with bales my neighbor has a baler I could loan for a few days and I could wrap them because we bring all the bales in ourselfs so maybe I should pick up a wrapper and stay with bales what ye think

Yeah, would stick with the bales. Not sure bout borrowing a neighbours baler to bale 70 acres, that's a bit of an ask.

Miname

Masseyman123 wrote: »

Another option if iwas going to stay with bales my neighbor has a baler I could loan for a few days and I could wrap them because we bring all the bales in ourselfs so maybe I should pick up a wrapper and stay with bales what ye think

I think your cracked and your either obsessed with machinery or dellusional to whats attainable from a 70 acre farm. or you may have won the lotto.

Masseyman123

like I said I am buying land soon so the farm will be bigger in a year or 2 but the only reason we changed to bales in the first place was because we hadn't a proper setup for pit silage at the time but now we do and I don't think it would be unreasonable to spend maybe 5000 on a second hand wagon to cut around 60 acres like with the price of the bales now the wagon would nearly pay for its elf after a year or 2 of paying the contractor for bales of silage in total a year .ps I also work as a fiter and have the tools and ability to maintain a wagon or fix a second hand one.Also someone said early on that 4 tractors was overkill on 70 acres and it is but I mainly keep the massey 399 and deutz for pottering round the farm and for helping the odd time on the farm just so ye don't all think im daft:)

Masseyman123

Miname wrote: »

I think your cracked and your either obsessed with machinery or dellusional to whats attainable from a 70 acre farm. or you may have won the lotto.

not daft just love my machines and like to have everything myself not depending on people

MIKEKC

Masseyman123 wrote: »

not daft just love my machines and like to have everything myself not depending on people

That is being daft, no book work at all being done.

Bullocks

MIKEKC wrote: »

That is being daft, no book work at all being done.

It might be daft but you have to enjoy farming whatever way you can . My father would be depressed if I got a contractor in and took away his few "busy " days at silage . The best I could do was get a wagon instead of single chop . We can do it between the two of us and he is as happy as Larry .

MIKEKC

Bullocks wrote: »

It might be daft but you have to enjoy farming whatever way you can . My father would be depressed if I got a contractor in and took away his few "busy " days at silage . The best I could do was get a wagon instead of single chop . We can do it between the two of us and he is as happy as Larry .

Happy but hardly making the best of the resources you have,and you are buying more land to squander more money

Masseyman123

what do you meen to squander more money sure isn't every farmers plan to extend and make his farm better?

smokey-fitz

If you have no other cost except buying a 2nd hand wagon for 5 to 6k to do your own silage, plus have the labour there I see no problem at all. Plus as you say you can do maintenance yourself. If getting a sp contractor in your looking at over 100 an acre thats 7k min for the 70ac. Not sure what wagon lads charge.

If thats what you want, go for it. once your sure on your figures and that you wont be loosing.

Masseyman123

smokey-fitz wrote: »

If you have no other cost except buying a 2nd hand wagon for 5 to 6k to do your own silage, plus have the labour there I see no problem at all. Plus as you say you can do maintenance yourself. If getting a sp contractor in your looking at over 100 an acre thats 7k min for the 70ac. Not sure what wagon lads charge.

If thats what you want, go for it. once your sure on your figures and that you wont be loosing.

Thank u that was my point that the wagon would pay for its self

pms7

Go for it! I got one two years ago, same acres as yourself, Krone Titan €7000. Contractor was getting too busy. Very happy with move, will do about 15 acres/day near draw, so I split the first cut. Which is great for silage quality and getting some grazing back in fast. I have to pay €25 / acre for mowing and pay someone to push up silage, so you will be saving more than me. On that note, you can drive onto pit with wagon, so you are only knocking out the lumps and rolling it, don't have to lift all grass onto pit as from trailers. Friend got one new 10 years ago, estimate the depreciation for both of us is about €10 to €15 / acre for the wagon.

weatherbyfoxer

Masseyman123 wrote: »

Thank u that was my point that the wagon would pay for its self

Another thing to consider is how long it will take you to pick up 40 acres with a 6 grand wagon.. A neighbour of mine has the sort of machine your talking about and its as slow as a wet week,also the silage from it is a nightmare to push up as its is not well chopped

Few lads I know have wagons costing €15000+ these seem good machines but only if its not a long draw

pms7

On the land issue...:)
At 10k / acre please show me the figures that show that land paying for itself...? :eek:

pms7

weatherbyfoxer wrote: »

Another thing to consider is how long it will take you to pick up 40 acres with a 6 grand wagon.. A neighbour of mine has the sort of machine your talking about and its as slow as a wet week,also the silage from it is a nightmare to push up as its is not well chopped

Few lads I know have wagons costing €15000+ these seem good machines but only if its not a long draw

True, mine has only every second knife, so grass 4'' long. Harder to manage in pit. But because of time can spend rolling, pit is perfect. Can do better job with 100hp tractor than contractor loader flying up and down trying to keep up with harvester. PIt near me has to 6'' waste on top and all pit is hot because loader hadn't time to roll pit - near draw and no walls so had to build sides. Got neighbour who does his own silage to push up mine this year, because he put time and effort into building sides, had absolutely no waste on side just slightly hot. I couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong all along with covering pit after contractor as always 8'' dung on sides. Pain in the hole apart from loss of silage.

Deepsouthwest

pms7 wrote: »

True, mine has only every second knife, so grass 4'' long. Harder to manage in pit. But because of time can spend rolling, pit is perfect. Can do better job with 100hp tractor than contractor loader flying up and down trying to keep up with harvester. PIt near me has to 6'' waste on top and all pit is hot because loader hadn't time to roll pit - near draw and no walls so had to build sides. Got neighbour who does his own silage to push up mine this year, because he put time and effort into building sides, had absolutely no waste on side just slightly hot. I couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong all along with covering pit after contractor as always 8'' dung on sides. Pain in the hole apart from loss of silage.

Slightly hot = zero feeding value

eric prydz

Masseyman123 wrote: »

well lads. I work on my beef farm of 70 acres and expanding but my question is wich should I buy a silage wagon or a precision chop harvester.we do bales now but used to do pit silage and because of the price of bales I want to go back to pit.we have a good size silage pit and have a run of drain for effulent. currently we are feeding around 50 cattle but are expanding.during the winter I am feeding cattle indoors and outside aswell,. we have a 7 foot mower and a 6 foot aswell as 2 haybobs and a small rake.currently we get a 40acre first cut and 30 off second cut.My question is should I buy a wagon or a precision chop harvester and wich would be better also if it helps are fields are mostly flat with a few hilly fields and they range from around 5-12 acres in size.I will be feeding cattle outside with feed trailers and straight from the shear grab for the cattle indoors.I will not be mixing the silage in a diet feeder either.Could you also recommend a model of wagon/harvester to go with.Power shouldn't be a problem as we have a 130hp Renault a 110hp deutz and a massey 399 and 5445fl wich will have the shear grab.Sorry for such the long post just I wanted to get all the information out there! Any help will be greatly appreciated thanks!

Well op if I had good reliable help myself id be going for a trailer harvester myself though I haven't so im going down the wagon route myself now after cutting precision chop for years.something like a tarrup 622 would be ideal for you hp,though if you have to go out and buy trailers a wagon would be the ideal job for you though I would be buying a 10ft mower to speed up the job.

MIKEKC wrote: »

That is being daft, no book work at all being done.

Where has the op written that ???

MIKEKC wrote: »

Happy but hardly making the best of the resources you have,and you are buying more land to squander more money

Being happy is very important too.
I fail to understand why buying land is a waste of money in your opinion clearly the op is trying to improve his farm.

pms7 wrote: »

On the land issue...:)
At 10k / acre please show me the figures that show that land paying for itself...? :eek:

Well its like everything you buy
The day you buy is the day you sell so surely the op would get his money back if he decided to sell it on again in a few years.

Masseyman123

well if I was going with a harvester I would have to also by trailers I have enough people but with the price of a harvester and trailers I think it would be better to buy a wagon what would ye think and also how many acres would say a jf900/1050 get trough a day compared to a wagon?

Masseyman123

well I have the manpower for precision chop but its the price of buying trailers and the harvester plus ive herd that cattle like the longer chop lent of a wagon anyway compared to shorter pc silage

eric prydz

Masseyman123 wrote: »

well if I was going with a harvester I would have to also by trailers I have enough people but with the price of a harvester and trailers I think it would be better to buy a wagon what would ye think and also how many acres would say a jf900/1050 get trough a day compared to a wagon?

A jf 900 should be fit to pick up 20/25 acres of silage in a handy days work and 1050 35/40 but that's only when things go any way right at all,its very easy to lose half a days cutting if your unfortunate enough to pick a stone :mad:
Any good wagon should match the output or better it on a short draw.

Masseyman123 wrote: »

well I have the manpower for precision chop but its the price of buying trailers and the harvester plus ive herd that cattle like the longer chop lent of a wagon anyway compared to shorter pc silage

Im moveing to a wagon outfit now because even though I have the trailers its very hard to keep everything organised at times.

agriman27

Local farmer near me has a fresh krone 6/40gl , he used to cut with jf harvester. I was surprised how quick it is, he puts two 10ft rows together, he hires in a 13 tonne digger to build the pit. I think its a very efficient setup with a good output and makes great silage with just two men. I would go for the wagon no brainer:)

Masseyman123

we I have a jcb 4cx how wud ye say she would do on a pit?

Masseyman123

what wagon would ye recommend for my acerage take note I have 3 or 4 wet fields so I don't want something that will sink!

pajero12

Masseyman123 wrote: »

we I have a jcb 4cx how wud ye say she would do on a pit?

A 165 would push up grand if you have the time to roll properly, So the 4cx will be sound!

td5man

Masseyman123 wrote: »

we I have a jcb 4cx how wud ye say she would do on a pit?

Used a mf 860 on the pit for a good few years use a Hitachi 120 sometimes wouldn't be great at packing it.
Using a tractor and loader on the pit for the last few years.

keep going

First thing you need a bigger tractor for any decent wagon and id get a harvester aswell to keep your options open and with that in mind id get a baler and wrapper as well.they will all pay for themselves with the extra land and bank managers like that kind of stuff when you are buying land shows initiative

grazeaway

Haven't read through the full list of pages so this may have been answered already.

If you want to do the silage your self then for the acerage you are looking at I would go with the wagon.
However I would look at how suitable the machinery you have at present is for the job.
You have a mower so that will do for a start.

How good is the 130hp tractor? Hp wise it suit be fine for the smaller sized wagons. How good is the transmission and hydraulics.

What I'd your longest draw and how easy is it to get in and out of the fields (last thing you want it to tear the pick up off the wagon).

What have you got to push up the silage, you should have something with good hydraulics 4wd and a power shuttle. Ideally you need a loader or a decent tractor and loader and rake. The days of the 2wd and buck rake are gone, did it myself and the strain on the knee and back isn't worth it. Have done it too with a ford 550 digger and it wasn't ideal the ground clearance isn't great with the rear legs and back actor.

As long at the only new machinery you need is the wagon and you have the time and someone good to push up the silage then I would say go for it. It's you time and money.

Not sure what type to recommend but most types are similar to balers and harvesters so try to see what are the most common in your area and go look at them.

Another thing talk to someone you has one as they might tell you something that might tell its not for you and save you a whole heap of grief later.

Sheep breeder

massey fair play in your buying land and driving on the farm,our contractor had two wagons till nama came and now is with another guy with a self propelled and a lot of the fellas want him to go back to the wagon for less waste and healthier stock. i think the most important thing is making quality silage when you want!!! the self propelled guy only wants the big falla first and the small guy last, when you have your own you can do it when you want and control the amount cut and the quality, for bale silage with your set up ithink a wrapper would be a good investment and some body to bale, as they are ten a pen and you have the rest of the gear, this year we changed the tractor up in hp and have started to buy bits of our own gear ( not too new of stuff but gear to do the job ourself which can be picked up if ypur not in a rush and have the hands to maintain it) the day has come to able to do your own little bits of work and less on a contractors bill.

Greengrass1

Lads ye should go over into f4f and see what the lad on the machinery sub forum is talking about doing.
Going to buy all the gear to do his own baled sikage.
8k bales

Masseyman123

this is what I was thinking the 130 hp Renault on wagon it has good hydraulics and transmission and the arms are easy to take of to allow more space for the wagon and maybe the massey 5455 fl on pit also most of our firlds are beside our pit with only 4 or 5 fields 5 mins up the road but quicker if we travel back through the fields

Masseyman123

this is what I was thinking the 130 hp Renault on wagon it has good hydraulics and transmission and the arms are easy to take of to allow more space for the wagon and maybe the massey 5455 fl 4wd on pit also most of our firlds are beside our pit with only 4 or 5 fields 5 mins up the road but quicker if we travel back through the fields and the are easy to get in to.

eric prydz

Masseyman123 wrote: »

this is what I was thinking the 130 hp Renault on wagon it has good hydraulics and transmission and the arms are easy to take of to allow more space for the wagon and maybe the massey 5455 fl on pit also most of our firlds are beside our pit with only 4 or 5 fields 5 mins up the road but quicker if we travel back through the fields

A pottinger europrofi 3 would be a ideal match for the Renault and put a buckrake on the mf and away you go

Farmer Pudsey

When you have the silage outfit sorted you will need a slurry outfit, an agitator and two 2000 gallons tankers. You may have to buy a second 130HP tractor. After that I reccomend a diet feeder. As you may be reseediing a reversible plough and a one pass system as well. Down the line you may well start a bit of tillage so a self propelled sprayer, a few grain trailers and a combine will be needed.

However with the wet weather we get at harvesting time you will need to invest in a track machine to get the combine out of the mud now and again especially if you grow a bit of maize. Because of this a low loader to get it to the tillage area fast will be required.

As you will be swimming in money you will need a few tax efficent investments. Forestry looks the most suitable so start planning to get your hands on Forestry harvester and a forwarder for logging. Then a wood processing machine and a kindler as well should complete the outfit.

eric prydz

keep going wrote: »

First thing you need a bigger tractor for any decent wagon and id get a harvester aswell to keep your options open and with that in mind id get a baler and wrapper as well.they will all pay for themselves with the extra land and bank managers like that kind of stuff when you are buying land shows initiative

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

When you have the silage outfit sorted you will need a slurry outfit, an agitator and two 2000 gallons tankers. You may have to buy a second 130HP tractor. After that I reccomend a diet feeder. As you may be reseediing a reversible plough and a one pass system as well. Down the line you may well start a bit of tillage so a self propelled sprayer, a few grain trailers and a combine will be needed.

However with the wet weather we get at harvesting time you will need to invest in a track machine to get the combine out of the mud now and again especially if you grow a bit of maize. Because of this a low loader to get it to the tillage area fast will be required.

As you will be swimming in money you will need a few tax efficent investments. Forestry looks the most suitable so start planning to get your hands on Forestry harvester and a forwarder for logging. Then a wood processing machine and a kindler as well should complete the outfit.

I think the op started this thread to get advice on machinery and not to be sneered at.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

keep going

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

When you have the silage outfit sorted you will need a slurry outfit, an agitator and two 2000 gallons tankers. You may have to buy a second 130HP tractor. After that I reccomend a diet feeder. As you may be reseediing a reversible plough and a one pass system as well. Down the line you may well start a bit of tillage so a self propelled sprayer, a few grain trailers and a combine will be needed.

However with the wet weather we get at harvesting time you will need to invest in a track machine to get the combine out of the mud now and again especially if you grow a bit of maize. Because of this a low loader to get it to the tillage area fast will be required.

As you will be swimming in money you will need a few tax efficent investments. Forestry looks the most suitable so start planning to get your hands on Forestry harvester and a forwarder for logging. Then a wood processing machine and a kindler as well should complete the outfit.

Ah now pudsey, dont be jealous, im sure hes got the sums all worked out

quader

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

When you have the silage outfit sorted you will need a slurry outfit, an agitator and two 2000 gallons tankers. You may have to buy a second 130HP tractor. After that I reccomend a diet feeder. As you may be reseediing a reversible plough and a one pass system as well. Down the line you may well start a bit of tillage so a self propelled sprayer, a few grain trailers and a combine will be needed.

However with the wet weather we get at harvesting time you will need to invest in a track machine to get the combine out of the mud now and again especially if you grow a bit of maize. Because of this a low loader to get it to the tillage area fast will be required.

As you will be swimming in money you will need a few tax efficent investments. Forestry looks the most suitable so start planning to get your hands on Forestry harvester and a forwarder for logging. Then a wood processing machine and a kindler as well should complete the outfit.

It's because of smart ass replies like this that people r leaving boards .If you have nothing good to say maybe u should say noting

mahoney_j

quader wrote: »

It's because of smart ass replies like this that people r leaving boards .If you have nothing good to say maybe u should say noting

In fairness puds has a point,on a farm of 70 acres what op is proposing to do is a bit ott unless he is goingbto do a bit of hire work.

keep going

quader wrote: »

It's because of smart ass replies like this that people r leaving boards .If you have nothing good to say maybe u should say noting

Please can you tell what was wrong with my advice, he likes having control, he has plenty help, he is going to be farming alot more land and likes gear.personally I am struggling to see how a 70 acre beef enterprise is generating enough return to sustain and expand this setup but im not in the business so I dont know but maybe he will expand a contracting operation.I will refrain from commenting further

quader

All the op was looking for was advice not to be ridiculed or mocked