Fine Gael pulling out of constituency debates

Baggy Trousers

http://www.thejournal.ie/fine-gael-vincent-browne-debate-1872158-Jan2015/

FINE GAEL WILL not be putting forward ANY representatives for the 40 constituency debates being organised by TV3′s Tonight with Vincent Browne programme this year.
‘The People’s Debate with Vincent Browne’ is due to tour the country in the coming months and hold town hall style debates in each of the 40 Dáil constituencies.
The first of these debates is due to be pre-recorded in Wicklow tomorrow evening and broadcast next week.
But the biggest party in the country has decided not to participate amid concerns that it is being bounced into general election debates some 15 months before a vote is theoretically due to take place.
The party’s press office has this evening emailed its parliamentarians explaining that it has decided not to put forward any representatives amid concerns over the lack of detail on schedules, running orders and debate participants.
TV3 insisted this evening that a full programme format has been sent to all parties with a detailed breakdown of how the programme will be devised and operated.
“To say other otherwise is incorrect. TV3 is disappointed that this valuable opportunity to convey their political message to our viewers has been turned down by Fine Gael,” a spokesperson said.
It’s understood that the Labour party shares the concerns of its coalition colleagues and all three government TDs that were due to participate in the first debate tomorrow have been withdrawn.

They agreed to take part and now they refuse - what are they afraid of?

Rightwing

Baggy Trousers wrote: »

http://www.thejournal.ie/fine-gael-vincent-browne-debate-1872158-Jan2015/



They agreed to take part and now they refuse - what are they afraid of?

The total embarrassment that even SF would destroy Kenny in a debate. :pac:

_Kaiser_

Rightwing wrote: »

The total embarrassment that even SF would destroy Kenny in a debate. :pac:

Random punters on the street can destroy Kenny in a debate..

Remember this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qn7zOngJpwk

Regardless of whether she was or wasn't from Galway, the arrogant condescension of the man is unbelievable. He clearly thought he was still talking to a room of primary school kids!

His handlers must have had a stroke!

BoJack Horseman

40+ "debates"?

40 episodes of people shouting at each other about water.
What's the point?

Manach

Pity that the politicians have decided not to engage with people. While most of these meet the public events do devolve into dog and pony shows, sometimes there are interesting as they show the politician's mettle : for instance Lucinda Creighton back during the EU referendum actually held her own well against a sizeable SF contingent in the crowd.

whippet

Vincent browne type debates are just a noisy mob rule rant fest. No decent politician worth his or her salt would want anything to do with this format.

Anyone trying to talk without hysteria and not using the work bankser in each and every rant is shouted down and heckled out of it.

Alun

whippet wrote: »

Vincent browne type debates are just a noisy mob rule rant fest. No decent politician worth his or her salt would want anything to do with this format.

Anyone trying to talk without hysteria and not using the work bankser in each and every rant is shouted down and heckled out of it.

I agree. They're not really 'debates' in any real sense of the word, and I don't blame any political party for deciding not to take part in them to be honest.

_Kaiser_

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Random punters on the street can destroy Kenny in a debate..

Remember this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qn7zOngJpwk

Regardless of whether she was or wasn't from Galway, the arrogant condescension of the man is unbelievable. He clearly thought he was still talking to a room of primary school kids!

His handlers must have had a stroke!

whenever he gets caught off guard Kenny always pulls of that "where do you hail from crap". secretly allowing his feeble mind to search the empty chasms for a comeback all the while behind him, the nodding, shuffling posse move'em on like some kind of embarrasing biggoted uncle with dementia (not making light of the disorder but you get my point).

hardCopy

Not surprised by this. FG are not popular at the moment, they would never want to lead into an election with 40 weeks of being kicked around by every potential opponent. Aside from the fact that they'd have to expose all of their weaker debaters. It would be far too hard to prep and stage manage that many candidates.

FreudianSlippers

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

40+ "debates"?

40 episodes of people shouting at each other about water.
What's the point?

An extended, televised version of Liveline to stop the hemorrhage of viewers from TV3 to UTV Ireland.

hfallada

Its a smart move. The "debates" were going to be 40 "debates" talking about water charges, how back FG are, etc. There was going to be no debates but attacks on FG. These debates will allow people to see how incompetent their "amazing" independent TDs are. I have yet to be impressed with most independent TDs.They fail to understand how a modern economy works. They generally dont know how the political system works. We dont know their values like we know what their values were if they were in a political party eg. their view on SSM

These debates will allow us to see TDs actually sharing something about themselves, rather than talking about water charges and FG

Baggy Trousers

I like the way Vincent Brown asks the right questions.

Xenophile

whippet wrote: »

Vincent browne type debates are just a noisy mob rule rant fest. No decent politician worth his or her salt would want anything to do with this format.

Anyone trying to talk without hysteria and not using the work bankser in each and every rant is shouted down and heckled out of it.

Intelligent move by FG. I can see the hand of Frank Flannery in this move.

Who would want to be the whipping boys or girls of VB so far out from a general election.

VB shows no respect for politicians. Any Government TD who would want to appear on this type of show at this time should get themselves a few sessions of pschotherapy for issues of low self esteem.

conorh91

I can sympathize with any politician who is reluctant to partake in Vincent Browne's aggressive style of journalism.

Nevertheless, Tonight with Vincent Browne reaches a substantial national audience.

His show is the only non-State-funded political programme who can consistently capture a viewership over 100,000.

In a country so small as ours, it is vital that there should be an independent political show of this stature which is not funded by the Exchequer.

But if a government can launch an attack on a political programme through an effective boycott, they can strangle the programme of its lifeblood, and eradicate any competition to the state broadcaster.

I don't understand why people are not more concerned about this. The Government parties have not merely removed their representatives from the programme, they have also removed their audience members. In doing so, they appear to be attempting to completely undermine the programme, resulting in its inevitable failure, if this policy of government is to continue in future broadcasts.

BoJack Horseman

conorh91 wrote: »

I don't understand why people are not more concerned about this. The Government parties have not merely removed their representatives from the programme, they have also removed their audience members. In doing so, they appear to be attempting to completely undermine the programme,

You have a point, but may be over egging the pudding a bit.
Its normal for a politician to seek to form his battlefield before taking the field.

What VinnyB seeks to create an arena for much heat but little light.

Should Wicklow's 2 FG TDs exclude themselves from the 'Wicklow' night, so be it..... Its not a slap in the peoples face, its just avoiding the obvious ambush.

resulting in its inevitable failure, if this policy of government is to continue in future broadcasts.

I think you are overstating things a tad if you consider the avoiding of VinB the death knell of his show.
I'm sure it will continue.

_Kaiser_

Xenophile wrote: »

VB shows no respect for politicians.

And why should he? Respect is earned, not simply given away I was taught many years ago and it is as true now as it was then.

I know we in Ireland have an instinctive urge to bow before our "betters" but who can honestly say that FG/LAB have proven themselves worthy of ANY respect from either journalists or the public in general.

So far the only reasons offered by the pro-FG crowd on this site are "SF would be worse!" or "but FF wrecked the place last time!" While this may be true to an extent I don't agree with the "logic" that FG is automatically deserving of support/votes as a result.

It was this "anyone but them!!" attitude that landed us with Kenny and Co - a government which has pretty much done nothing but obediently implement the previous administration's Austerity deals with the EU, shown that they are right up there in the cronyism/corruption and incompetence stakes, and which have sat and prayed for a "recovery" which they have had little hand in but will claim all credit they can for... not so keen however to shout about the mounting housing crisis/property bubble 2.0, the Shatter/Calinan/Hogan/IW debacles, the outright lies told by Kenny and Co throughout their term in connection to these issues and so on.

FG can pull out of more debates if they like - aping the "great leader" I suppose who just can't be trusted with doesn't do them at all - but just like the Seanad embarrassment, it'll just hurt them more on the day.

conorh91

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Should Wicklow's 2 FG TDs exclude themselves from the 'Wicklow' night, so be it..... Its not a slap in the peoples face, its just avoiding the obvious ambush.

What I am saying, is that if this is to form a policy by the Government parties, it is tantamount to an ambush of the only significant political affairs show which is not funded by the Exchequer.

If it's simply a co-incidence that the 2 FG TDs and the Labour TD all got cold feet at the last minute, that's absolutely fine.

But if there is a national policy at play to undermine the only independent political programme with major viewership, it's a little more disquieting.

Unlike you, I think that the absence of government representatives from political discussions renders those discussions significantly less relevant.

BoJack Horseman

conorh91 wrote: »

I think that the absence of government representatives from political discussions renders those discussions significantly less relevant.

I'm of the opinion that all "political" discussions are irrelevant in thecIrish context.

They are just futile & circular point-scoring wastes of camera reel.

Nothing spoken of ideology or reason, just auction politicking.

VinnyB's 40-night Shinner/SP/Marxist water & circle-jerk marathon will exercise some, but if FG are present or not, they are the piñata either way.

If they stay at home & leave it to Labour to be slaughtered it isn't the assault on democracy you perceive it.

conorh91

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

I'm of the opinion that all "political" discussions are irrelevant in thecIrish context.

So you wouldn't care if all Irish political programming were cancelled, then.

If you don't care about any of them surviving, I guess this exchange is finished.

BoJack Horseman

conorh91 wrote: »

So you wouldn't care whether there all Irish political programming is cancelled, then

.
I'm personally not that bothered with watching shouting matches in front of green-screen, but to each their own

If you don't care about any of them surviving, I guess this exchange is finished.

Aww.

Xenophile

conorh91 wrote: »

I can sympathize with any politician who is reluctant to partake in Vincent Browne's aggressive style of journalism.

Nevertheless, Tonight with Vincent Browne reaches a substantial national audience.

His show is the only non-State-funded political programme who can consistently capture a viewership over 100,000.

In a country so small as ours, it is vital that there should be an independent political show of this stature which is not funded by the Exchequer.

But if a government can launch an attack on a political programme through an effective boycott, they can strangle the programme of its lifeblood, and eradicate any competition to the state broadcaster.

I don't understand why people are not more concerned about this. The Government parties have not merely removed their representatives from the programme, they have also removed their audience members. In doing so, they appear to be attempting to completely undermine the programme, resulting in its inevitable failure, if this policy of government is to continue in future broadcasts.

Would not agree, just cast your mind back to a few years ago when Sir Anthony O'Reilly had control of Independent Newspapers Ltd and used his power to urge voters not to vote for the outgoing Government on the front page of The Sunday Independent and called it "pay back time".

Denis O'Brien has too much media power and Vincent Browne is too arrogant with a huge chip on his shoulder against FG, Enda Kenny, and many other members of that party of which he was once a member.

Long live our National Broadcasting system with a balanced approach to broadcasting where we the public can hold it to account.

DeJa VooDoo

FG and their ceann comhairle shut down debate in Dail Eireann where the guillotining of legislation is the order of the day.
Their supporters on here try to dictate, not debate, and accuse everyone with a different view as being 'lefties' or 'shinners' or whatever foul words they can think of.
Is it any surprise FG run away from debating in their constituencies?

AFAIK, the government TD's in Wicklow were prepared to go and debate until Dear Leader issued his diktat.

Baggy Trousers

Xenophile wrote: »

Intelligent move by FG. I can see the hand of Frank Flannery in this move.

Who would want to be the whipping boys or girls of VB so far out from a general election.

VB shows no respect for politicians. Any Government TD who would want to appear on this type of show at this time should get themselves a few sessions of pschotherapy for issues of low self esteem.

So essentially if the government TDs cannot control a debate, they will refuse to take part. Dead right, it's not their job to face the people!

Baggy Trousers

DeJa VooDoo wrote: »

AFAIK, the government TD's in Wicklow were prepared to go and debate until Dear Leader issued his diktat.

I heard the same. I also heard that some lesser known FG backbenchers are fuming because they miss out on a PR opportunity.

Enda will not be leader in Summer.

Xenophile

Baggy Trousers wrote: »

So essentially if the government TDs cannot control a debate, they will refuse to take part. Dead right, it's not their job to face the people!

They will face the people on election day...........where more than one cynical presenter will have a say.

By the way maybe someone can tell me why RTE axed Browne's radio show some years ago.

Talking up of facing down or running scared.............Browne told Fionnan Sheehan of the Irish Independent that he would never appear on his TV show again.

Delighted to see on todays paper that Fionnan Sheehan has been appointed editor of the Irish Independent

jimmycrackcorm

Vinnys show should really be renamed The tonight show with Claire Daly.

conorh91

Xenophile wrote: »

just cast your mind back to a few years ago when Sir Anthony O'Reilly had control of Independent Newspapers Ltd and used his power to urge voters not to vote for the outgoing Government on the front page of The Sunday Independent and called it "pay back time".

So?

I feel like freedom of expression has crept into every political debate over the past few days, but that's exactly what your "payback time" reference amounts to. I am allowed to start a blog in opposition to government policy, but perhaps nobody would read it. INM are similarly entitled to oppose the Government, but the difference is that in the free market, they enjoy widespread support.

A broadly free market, subject to regulation, is a cornerstone of democracy. Just like democracy, the public's outlook is reflected by whom they choose to support. Incidentally, this is why I can never understand why so many supposedly ardent democrats oppose market freedoms. But that's an issue for another time.

My concern is that FG-Lab are attempting to undermine the only 'free agent' that matters in terms of political broadcasting, and implicitly buttressing the dominance of the state broadcaster, funded by the Exchequer, who is effectively reliant upon the Government.

Going Forward

Baggy Trousers wrote: »

I like the way Vincent Brown asks the right questions.

And I love the European Commission's representative in Ireland's embarrassing attempts to deflect the questions.

I also liked the rush to record Browne's questions by his more deferrential colleagues in the background.

Baggy Trousers

Baggy Trousers wrote: »

They agreed to take part and now they refuse - what are they afraid of?

Debating

Xenophile

Deleted User wrote: »

Debating

So that's what you call or define the action of Vincent Browne as he banned Fionnan Sheehan from all his future programmes.

What's sauce for the goose is sauce to the gander.

A suggestion for renaming Browne's programmes.........."Bullying at Bedtime"

mikom

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VH9BgiDbDbc

Fine Gael want to invite people from all walks of life to join with us and help build our plans and ideas for the country. We are particularly interested in your ideas on how we can clear the barriers to employment and how we can get people back to work.

Xenophile

conorh91 wrote: »

the only 'free agent' that matters in terms of political broadcasting

Surely you are not referring to Vincent Browne.

Savvy politicians know that Pat Kenny will soon be back on our screens giving them an extra option to express their views without the fear of being gratuitously insulted.

conorh91

Xenophile wrote: »

Pat Kenny will soon be back on our screens

I heard that was an entertainment programme, in the format of Piers Morgan.

It doesn't appear to be a panel discussion, or a political debating programme.

Oh, and it hasn't started yet, and will have to build up momentum. This could be an election year.

DeJa VooDoo

Xenophile wrote: »

So that's what you call or define the action of Vincent Browne as he banned Fionnan Sheehan from all his future programmes.

What's sauce for the goose is sauce to the gander.

A suggestion for renaming Browne's programmes.........."Bullying at Bedtime"

Fionann Sheehan.
Editor of the sindo married to a FFailure.
Enough said.

mikom

mikom wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VH9BgiDbDbc

Is Enda talking to the Waitress in this video ?

mikom

Deleted User wrote: »

Is Enda talking to the Waitress in this video ?

Waiter, actually.
A dude from Germany........... name of Otto Cue.

Going Forward

Xenophile wrote: »

So that's what you call or define the action of Vincent Browne as he banned Fionnan Sheehan from all his future programmes.

What's sauce for the goose is sauce to the gander.

A suggestion for renaming Browne's programmes.........."Bullying at Bedtime"

One journalist's spat with another.

Nothing to do with Fine Gael's fear of debating.

Browne has had some of the best moments on Irish TV, from questioning Bertie at the Ard Fheis to the stack of books for Martin McGuinness at the presedential debate to the ECB press conference.

Beats RTE's fawning any day.

Unfortunately, VB may have bitten the hand that feeds him, but he may still make hay by having cardboard cut outs of the FG Labour members not present at the debates.

Their absence will do nothing to stem their fall in popularity and will play into SF's hands in particular.

The decision may well be reviewed by FG.

Baggy Trousers

Going Forward wrote: »

Nothing to do with Fine Gael's fear of debating.

Browne has had some of the best moments on Irish TV, from questioning Bertie at the Ard Fheis to the stack of books for Martin McGuinness at the presedential debate to the ECB press conference.

Unfortunately, VB may have bitten the hand that feeds him, but he may still make hay by having cardboard cut outs of the FG Labour members not present at the debates.

Their absence will do nothing to stem their fall in popularity and will play into SF's hands in particular.

Spot on, stupid move by a misguided party led by a coached puppet.

Xenophile

DeJa VooDoo wrote: »

Fionann Sheehan.
Editor of the sindo married to a FFailure.
Enough said.

The ladys name is Avirl Power, no failure, currently a Fianna Fail Senator, intelligent and articulate. Will be a TD after the next General Election.

Muahahaha

Xenophile wrote: »

Talking up of facing down or running scared.............Browne told Fionnan Sheehan of the Irish Independent that he would never appear on his TV show again.

Delighted to see on todays paper that Fionnan Sheehan has been appointed editor of the Irish Independent

Where did Browne say that? AFAIR Sheehan threw a hissy fit live on air and declared himself to never going on the show again the next day, I don't ever remember Vincent barring him from the show

the groutch

Xenophile wrote: »

The ladys name is Avirl Power, no failure, currently a Fianna Fail Senator, intelligent and articulate. Will be a TD after the next General Election.

she's a senator because she failed in the general election in 2011.

Going Forward

Muahahaha wrote: »

Where did Browne say that? AFAIR Sheehan threw a hissy fit live on air and declared himself to never going on the show again the next day, I don't ever remember Vincent barring him from the show

Here's the Independent's, version of events, conveniently leaving out any reference to the other element of the spat, Sheahan's attempt to bring Browne to task over for his treatment of a fellow Independent journalist on a previous show.

One journalist having a spat with another journalist about another journalist.

Bit irrelevant really. One person came out of it looking a bit silly.

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/anglo/vincent-browne-tries-to-gag-our-political-editor-fionnan-sheahan-29372453.html

Xenophile

the groutch wrote: »

she's a senator because she failed in the general election in 2011.

Your logic is so childish, immature and so out of touch with the philosophy of successfull prople it is not worth discussion.

Xenophile

Muahahaha wrote: »

Where did Browne say that? AFAIR Sheehan threw a hissy fit live on air and declared himself to never going on the show again the next day, I don't ever remember Vincent barring him from the show

Browne did it in the backroom after the show, he did not have the guts to do it live on air.

Corholio

Xenophile wrote: »

Surely you are not referring to Vincent Browne.

Savvy politicians know that Pat Kenny will soon be back on our screens giving them an extra option to express their views without the fear of being gratuitously insulted.

Also without the fear of being asked anything even remotely relevant.

conorh91

Xenophile wrote: »

so out of touch with the philosophy of successfull prople

Sorry, I forgot what i was going to say.

Xenophile

conorh91 wrote: »

Sorry, I forgot what i was going to say.

People

Muahahaha

Xenophile wrote: »

Browne did it in the backroom after the show, he did not have the guts to do it live on air.

Thats Fionnan Sheehan's version of events. Somehow I doubt Vincent even has control over who is and isn't allowed on the show, I'd imagine that power lies with the producer of the show who is effectively Vincents boss.

AFAIR at the time Vincent addressed it on the following nights show and said at no point did they tell Sheehan that he was barred from the show. That was in response to Sheehan saying in the Indo that he was barred from the show so it seems someone here is having problems telling the truth.

Muahahaha

Xenophile wrote: »

Your logic is so childish, immature and so out of touch with the philosophy of successfull prople it is not worth discussion.

You're the one who is childish for not debating the point. You said that Fionnan Sheehan's wife is successful and a poster correctly pointed out that she failed to get elected as a TD. This clearly shows that she is not very successful at getting elected and needed favours pulled for her to get into the Seanad.

By any definition of success Averil Power is not a successful politician at getting elected to the Dail, there's no getting away from that

DeJa VooDoo

Muahahaha wrote: »

Thats Fionnan Sheehan's version of events. Somehow I doubt Vincent even has control over who is and isn't allowed on the show, I'd imagine that power lies with the producer of the show who is effectively Vincents boss.

AFAIR at the time Vincent addressed it on the following nights show and said at no point did they tell Sheehan that he was barred from the show. That was in response to Sheehan saying in the Indo that he was barred from the show so it seems someone here is having problems telling the truth.

That's how I remember it too.
Sheehan threw his little hissy fit and hasn't been seen on the show since.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DEEB2Z7CkQ

It's incredibility ironic that a 'journalist' from the independent group would accuse others of being biased.

Ironic and hilariously funny when you think about it.

Muahahaha

DeJa VooDoo wrote: »

That's how I remember it too.
Sheehan threw his little hissy fit and hasn't been seen on the show since.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DEEB2Z7CkQ

It's incredibility ironic that a 'journalist' from the independent group would accuse others of being biased.

Ironic and hilariously funny when you think about it.

The thing about it also was that it was like Sheehan went on the show looking for an argument. Vincent simply asked him how long they had the tapes for before they decided to publish. It was a legitimate question, as was the other question he asked about their plans for releasing the rest of them because at the time it seemed apparent that they intended to drip drip them out over many months. Sheehan seemed to be taking false offence to all this yet the questions were in the public interest, for anyone looking in it was Sheehan who looked like the idiot, especially the way he blew up.

Sheehan also stated the reason he was angry was that Vincent had a colleague of Sheehans on a few weeks previous and "kicked him around for fun". It was pretty obvious that this was the real reason behind Sheehan's hissy fit, it was nothing to do at all with the tapes, he was just using that as an excuse to get a row started.

For someone who has made it to the Editor of the Indo he doesn't seem to be made of much steel, at least not in that episode with Browne