15 years no marriage

LegacyUser

Hi All
Looking to hear from people who are/were in a long term relationship without getting married. Myself and my partner are together 15 years, we met when we were young and we were so busy growing up that it was never a priority for me until recently, when I hit the early 30’s mark, and when I see people getting engaged all the time and it feel like im ready for it now and it’s now a priority. I spoke with my partner and he says he would like to have children but marriage isn’t important to him, and keeps saying whats it going to change, as we are commited to each other and why waste all that money on a wedding, he hates fuss and the thought of a speech and the whole white wedding is a total nightmare to him. He says he would probably get married if we had kids just so they would feel more secure that their parents are married, but I feel insulted then that he would only want to do it for the kids.
We are living together 8 years in his house, I never paid mortgage, just shopping and some bills. He always paid more as he was earning better money than me, but now he can’t afford to pay the mortgage because of work situation for a couple of months until things pick up, so I am now paying the mortgage, all shopping, and all bills.. And sometimes I feel like whats the point when he has no interest in marriage. If we broke up tomorrow I would have no home as technically it’s his house.

R.D. aka MR.D

Maybe I'm reading your post wrong but it doesn't sound like he has no interest in marriage.

It does sound like he has no interest in a wedding.

Maybe he misunderstands what you want. You want the security of being married as you mention the financial stuff at the end of your post but maybe he thinks you want to spend big money on a wedding and everything.

Would he be open to just getting married in a registry office or wherever?

I'm not an expert but I think if you have been living there a certain amount of time, you do have rights to his house.

I also don't understand why you are insulted. Surely having children with a person is a much much bigger commitment than getting married.

banie01

Basmati12345 wrote: »

We are living together 8 years in his house, I never paid mortgage, just shopping and some bills. He always paid more as he was earning better money than me, but now he can’t afford to pay the mortgage because of work situation for a couple of months until things pick up, so I am now paying the mortgage, all shopping, and all bills.. And sometimes I feel like whats the point when he has no interest in marriage. If we broke up tomorrow I would have no home as technically it’s his house.

So after a couple of months of you being financially responsible for the mortgage and bills, you feel like whats the point?
I wonder how he felt for the previous 90months plus where he took care of those costs?
Was providing a home for his partner and potential family his main worry?
Or was that he is avoiding marriage so he can keep you away from his asset and make a clean get away when he decides to leave you?

OP I hope you can tell I am being a little facetious, As R.D. aka MR.D said...
It sounds like he is worried about the wedding itself, both the social anxiety and worry that a day on display can bring and the cost!

You said yourself that he has paid the mortgage wholly alone until very recently.
This is ''traditionally'' the man's role, to provide...
You seem to have waited until he has hit a rough patch in his ability to provide to decide that now you have paid a few mortgage payments that it is the best time to broach the subject of a wedding?
The man is probably embarrassed already by the fact that he is ''failing'' in his role as a provider and then you add the cost of a wedding to the mix?


I'm not trying to knock you or indeed to second guess whether you want the white wedding with bells and whistles, but his thinking is probably that if his love of 15years wants a wedding, she wants to it properly!
And to a man's mind a ''proper wedding'' is bloody expensive, I'd hazard a guess that referring to children is a way for him to kick the can down the road and gain time to get back on top of his finances at what is obviously a tough time for him.

Marriage is important yes, but your assertion that you will be left with nothing should the relationship breakdown at this stage is incorrect, take a look at this website to better understand your ''rights''

The best thing you can do is talk to him, find out what he wants and where he see's ye're future, if its together well then work out the best way to get ye there.

Mr. Incognito

There are two reasons you seem to want to get married

1. Security

2. Because you see your friends getting married.

You have a 15 year partnership. That's longer than a lot of your friends getting married are going to last.

I think you should push the security button on your partner and suggest a tasteful civil ceremony - you don't have to have a big white wedding.

Equally if you WANT a big white wedding you should tell him and he should be able to compromise and meet you halfway. If it's important to you and he loves you he should make an effort. Almost every guy hates the fuss of a wedding but they do it because its not really for them. Its for their wife.

Marriage is compromise and you both need to accept that.

LegacyUser

Basmati12345 wrote: »

If we broke up tomorrow I would have no home as technically it’s his house.

Your incorrect there OP you would have a claim on the house as a cohabiting couple.

I agree with R.D. aka MR.D it sounds like he has issues with a wedding rather then marriage. Is having a wedding important to you OP? Honestly if you just want to get married that can be done with little fuss and cost but if you want the big wedding day will that's a different issue.

You need to sit down and discuss things practically, I know that isn't awfully romantic but there are legal reasons where getting married would be beneficial. Have you discussed next of kin, power of attorney etc etc If you got sick tomorrow would he have a say in your treatment for example or if he died tomorrow would you be dragged through a big legal battle over the house? Wills, medical directives, power of attorney, all these things should be discussed. If you had kids his rights as their father are not as strong if your not married. Even if you get married after the kids are born it's still not the same. What about your tax situation as a cohabiting couple rather then a married couple?

I know you might have a romantic view on getting married but after so many years together it might be best to approach this from a more practical view. He needs to think about this not as a wedding with speeches and dresses and cost.

Big Bag of Chips

I understand that you would like to be married to the man you love, but reading your post your reasons for getting married are all over the place. Not once do you mention love. And at the end of your post you even mention splitting up.

So, do you want to get married because you want to commit to your partner for the rest of your life, or do you want to get married because you are embarrassed that friends who are together a shorter time are already married? His reasons for not wanting to get married seem to be more about the wedding rather than the marriage. It sounds like neither of you really understand what the other is saying.

And by the way, he is committed to you. You have been living rent and mortgage free for the past 8 years. He has welcomed you into his home, allowed you to make it your home and kept a,roof over your head for 8 years. Life gets more difficult as we get older. We accumulate more responsibilities. If you love him you wouldn't even pass a thought to helping with his mortgage.. You live there. Even if you are not entitled to anything from the house (which you most probably are) then he has let you live rent free for 8 years... Think about that. And now that he is going through a rough patch you're annoyed at having to pay your way.

That's what happens in relationships, and marriages. Circumstances change all the time and if you are only willing to help him out if you are his wife and certain of some payback, or reward from it then I think you are being very unfair. I'm hoping that's not what you mean, and you are just upset about the marriage thing and things are coming out wrong. My husband has a daughter from a previous relationship. Not long after we bought our house he became unemployed. I paid the full mortgage and maintenance for his child. I has no obligation to contribute to his child, but, I loved (still love!!) him. I believed we were a couple and as such our finances were joined together. We (using my salary) could afford to continue paying the maintenance for his daughter, so we did.

Do you still see your finances as separate? Or do you now consider you have a household income rather than individual incomes?

I think you are upset and mixed up in what you are thinking and saying. Maybe it's time to get it straight in your head first, and then bring it to your bf again.

LegacyUser

Thanks for all the replies, its good tohear other opinions whether positive or negative because its not something I feel comfortable talking to friends or family about. I don’t want a big huge white wedding, something small in a hotel, but he thinks 20k is a waste of money and whos going to pay for it. When I bring up the idea of getting engaged/married he says he cant afford a ring and that’s fair enough but , Im just feeling really resentful at the moment and in recent months, that when he had the money to buy a ring he didn’t. It didn’t even enter his head. He was quite happy just plodding along, and I know I shouldn’t but I am comparinfg myself to friends. My best friend got engaged after 1 year to her fiancé and im bridesmaid this year. My other best friend got engaged after 2 years and I was bridesmaid for her last year. They were both completely surprised and blown away and excited about it, and their fiancés put so much thought into the proposal etc and I think of myself and feel like I almost have to beg/ask for it and I wish it had happened naturally. I know he cant afford it now but I always ask him why didn’t he do it when he could afford it. We have a huge argument now everytime we talk about marriage and as he says its putting a bad taste in his mouth about marriage and in one particular argument he said why don’t you put your money where your mouth is and buy a ring. And I said im not supposed to buy my own ring, and he said I don’t know what way it works. Then he said if u want it so bad why don’t you propose to me!
I just feel all the niceness is gone from it now and when I look at my friends all happy and excited I cant help but feel do I not deserve that too.

Big Bag of Chips

OP, seriously, your priorities are all wrong. You know your bf. Is he one for big romantic gestures and surprises? It doesn't sound like it. So what if your friends got the surprise proposal. Does that make their relationship better than yours? My husband didn't propose to me. We decided to get married. (We bought a ring, out of our joint household finances!) The day the ring was back after being sized was Halloween! We got a call from the jewellers that it was ready. We went to collect it and he "proposed" to me in the car in Liffey Valley car park on a damp, dark Halloween night!

Is our marriage less than someone else's who got the whole trimmings?

Really, OP, think you need to step back. An expensive ring and a surprise proposal isn't all that important. It's just so you can have a story as good as your friends to retell. I don't really understand your bit about something small in a hotel and €20k. Are you saying you would still need to spend €20k on a small wedding? Or does he think that is how much it will cost.

I think you need to seriously think about what you really want... Do you want a marriage? Or do you want a wedding? They are 2 completely separate things.

R.D. aka MR.D

You seem to have a very traditional view of a proposal and that's okay if it isn't getting in the way of an otherwise good relationship.

Are there other problems in the relationship?

I ask because I can't understand why you would be willing to throw away a relationship to 'keep up with the Jones'' As another poster mentioned, some of your friends might not manage 15 years with their partners. But because you want the proposal and the ring and to be doing what they are doing you are causing problems in your relationship.

It's 2015, not 1915. I would tend to agree with your partner on this one. It's not his 'job' to buy you a ring. Someone in my family paid for half of her ring because she knew that they were getting married and going to share a life together and what was hers was his so what difference did it make who paid for it at the end of the day.

I know when all of your friends are going down one road it can be hard to stay on your own path but the grass isn't always greener on the other side.

LegacyUser

OP I think a lot of this is down to bad timing. If he was use to having extra money and is now feeling stressed about money having you bring up wanting a wedding may just have rubbed him the wrong way. Making comments about what he should have done is also doing the same as I'm sure there's lots of things he think in hindsight he should have done before money became an issue.

You seem fixated on a proposal and a wedding rather then getting married. Like Big Bag of Chips myself and my husband just decided to together that it made sense to get married. I would have hated a big surprise proposal and over the top wedding and so would have he. Did you always want the big proposal and wedding or is just something you want now because of friends? Do you want the wedding so you can invite these other friends who got married along or have them be bridesmaids or do you want to marry someone you've been with for 15 years?

I think you need to step back and decided what it is that you actually really want first and then have a calm discussion with your OH about it.

Mr. Incognito

I just feel all the niceness is gone from it now and when I look at my friends all happy and excited I cant help but feel do I not deserve that too.

Your friends are going out about two years. You had that at that time.

Marriage is NOT a contest. If you make it one you will win the marriage but lose your husband.

You need to cop on and stop ruining your own happiness because it doesn't live up to someone elses hype.

Maybe your friends want to get married because they look at your relationship and think I want that long term happiness.

banie01

OP, you seem to believe that you've served the time and that you've ''Earned'' your special proposal and small hotel wedding....(Although if the 20k is your budget for this, I'd hate to see the cost of bells and whistles!)

You come across as very resentful of your partner for not buying you a ring while his earnings were higher.
I'd flip that and ask while you were living rent/mortgage free in ye're home why didn't you?
Why didn't you buy a ring or make a proposal?
You seem to have waited until your partner has hit a financial rough patch to go into marry me mode.
Can you not put yourself in his shoes?
Can you not imagine how emasculated he must already feel with having to see you step up and take responsibility for the mortgage he previously serviced solo?


Marriage is a partnership, a pooling of resources and love to build a relationship that will hopefully see the couple in question make it through until ''Death ye do part''
But you resent the fact he hasn't proposed, he hasn't bought a ring and he thinks 20k is a waste!
When he is struggling to pay the mortgage, well then yes!
20k will seem a waste.
A wedding is a day, granted one that will live long in your memory but a marriage is a lifetime!
I really think you need to decide which of those 2 things you want!

You seem to have a very traditional view of his responsibilities in terms of a proposal and what that entails....
Tradition would dictate that if he were to propose, that your family would pay for the wedding?
How would him holding that kind of skewed view make you feel?

Or how about this, He does pull out a ring and propose and then says, "well with all the money you've managed to save with no rent/mortgage to be paid that you can pay for the wedding solo?"

You have focused on your friends getting married, how many of those friends are in stable 15yr relationships?
How many will be in 15yrs?

If the posts you've made so far are representative of your attitude and expectation of marriage, I'll be honest....
I can fully understand your partner remarking that his attitude towards marriage is being coloured.

dudara

You can get married for literally nothing. Engagement rings are nice, but not necessary. A white dress and hotel reception are again nice, but not necessary. Even a wedding ring is not necessary. All you need to get married is two willing people, some witnesses and a registrar. If you really truly deeply wanted to get married to the person you love, that would be enough.

One thing did strike me from your original post, that you've been together since you were quite young. I wonder if that has insulated you somewhat from the trials and tribulations that relationships can bring, and how people mature together. I think some young relationships can start out as "playing house" and sometimes don't progress past that.

Like you, I've been with my partner for 15 years, and we're not married. I've watched lots of classmates, colleagues and (younger!) family get married, and in some cases, break up in that time. But marriage wouldn't change the fact that I spend my life with this person, that we support each other and that we share the good times and bad. The only thing marriage would actually change (for me) is legal status/next of kin/inheritance rights etc.

I agree with many other posters here, and would advise you to step away from the proposal/ring/wedding ideas and truly ask yourself if you want to be with this person. If so, then both of you need to sit down and talk about being married. Not wedded. (if that makes sense).

LegacyUser

Thanks for your opinions. He just thinks it’s a waste spending 20k on a wedding, but if I opted for something small in a hotel or country house then it might not cost that much. I don’t want all the big fuss either.I just feel we are together so long and why hasn’t it happened by now and I should I really have to almost beg for something that I deserve. He is the type of person you nearly need to spell things out to him about what you want, but I feel (maybe im wrong) that if you love someone would you not want to marry someone, but it doesnt mean anything to him. In the end he said straight out ,id do it for you to if its important to you/to keep you happy. But part of me feels should he not want it himself, and not just to keep me happy. And then when he thought I was giving him an ultimatum he said hes not going to be forced to do anything, it would have to be when he wants to do it. So I feel like I have have to wait around and hope someday he wil do it, and im at the mercy of him, and im the type of person I like to know where I stand. And I don’t want to wait much longer, especially if we are to have kids, I would prefer to be married.
At the moment there are no other major problems in the relationship, we are better at communicating etc than we were years ago. We did go through a few ups and downs alright, and he used to get odd over everything and not talk or ignore me for days anytime I tried to solve something. We broke up once 8 years ago after he got really drunk one night with a friend and met 2 girls and brought them home to his new house and he ended up sleeping with her. He said he barely remembers it and it wasn’t his intention, and as soon as it happened he regretted it and didn’t enjoy it etc and I only found out cause I had a weird feeling (I was living at home at the time gradually moving my stuff in) and I drove to the house early about 10am and I found an earring on the bedside locker, and I will never forget the feeling I felt that morning of shock and sickness. We broke up then but ended up getting back together again, he genuinely was cut up over it, and said it was the biggest mistake he ever made in his life. I still don’t know if im over it, as sometimes it comes back to me and I feel like crap. Other than that we have friends, family etc and we all get on well.
He was a guy who always went out with the lads for years and suited himself and did what he wanted when he wanted and I had no say in whether he went out or not and didn’t enjoy couples nights so we had separate social lives for most of our 20’s but as we are getting older and he is more mature that is changing. Probably because some of his friends are married with kids now and theyre all quieting down a bit. So I only feel like my opinion matters in recent years cause before he would never listen he always did what he wanted. Now im older and more assertive and don’t let people walk all over me like I used to, I have more say and more control In the relationship than before, now he does a lot of what I want to do.

Big Bag of Chips

How much do you think you could realistically get married for? How many people, realistically, would you want to invite? Just immediate families? Immediate families with partners? Kids? The friends you were bridesmaid for? A few of his friends? All their partners? Do you want to keep it small and intimate, or do you deserve the 5 course meal with a band and a DJ?

Why don't you propose? Why don't you do the nice surprise? Does he not deserve to know how much you love him, and how much you want to spend the rest of your life with him? If you are getting to an age where you are thinking about children and you would prefer to be married before children come along then that is a genuine reason to want to get married. It might surprise you to know that marriage isn't necessarily a romantic thing.. It is a legal contract. It serves a purpose. So your bf is right in thinking that he sees it unnecessary, for now. But that doesn't mean he won't change his mind if he knows the reasons for wanting to get married.

Although.. You need to change your argument. Getting married (or having a wedding!) just because you've served your time and think you deserve it now is, as your bf rightly says, unnecessary. Getting married because it gives your husband and your children more rights is a more sensible reason for wanting it.

Mr. Incognito

OP12345 wrote: »

Thanks for your opinions.

He just thinks it’s a waste spending 20k on a wedding,

but if I opted for something small in a hotel or country house then it might not cost that much.

I don’t want all the big fuss either.

I just feel we are together so long and why hasn’t it happened by now and I should I really have to almost beg for something that I deserve.

He is the type of person you nearly need to spell things out to him about what you want, but I feel (maybe im wrong) that if you love someone would you not want to marry someone, but it doesnt mean anything to him.

In the end he said straight out ,id do it for you to if its important to you/to keep you happy. But part of me feels should he not want it himself, and not just to keep me happy.

And then when he thought I was giving him an ultimatum he said hes not going to be forced to do anything, it would have to be when he wants to do it.

So I feel like I have have to wait around and hope someday he wil do it, and im at the mercy of him, and im the type of person I like to know where I stand. And I don’t want to wait much longer, especially if we are to have kids,

I would prefer to be married.

At the moment there are no other major problems in the relationship,

IRRELEVANT STUFF FROM THE PAST THAT I AM PLANNING TO USE TO BLACKMAIL HIM TO GET MY OWN WAY


.

I think you need to step back and look at what you have written. It doesn't sound like an equal partnership.

Sounds like you are throwing a hissy fit to get what you want in times when you are oblivious to the fact that you cannot afford it.

kunst nugget

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

Although.. You need to change your argument. Getting married (or having a wedding!) just because you've served your time and think you deserve it now is, as your bf rightly says, unnecessary. Getting married because it gives your husband and your children more rights is a more sensible reason for wanting it.

I don't think it's really about wanting to get married because of time served, I think it's probably more got to do with seeing friends moving on and seeing the excitement surrounding their lives at the moment and comparing it to the rather staid life she and her partner have at the moment. It would seem that they have been going out since they were teenagers and have had a very steady relationship which has probably gotten stuck in a rut over the last couple of years. She can see her friends and the big romantic gestures their partners are making for them in terms of engagements, weddings etc. and comparing it to what she has going on herself. Her friends' relationships will settle down eventually as well and get into their own groove, whatever that may be, but I think she's seeing the effort being put into their relationships that she sees as lacking in hers. I think dudara put it best in terms of "playing house" and not progressing past that.

OP, you need to sit down and talk this out calmly with your partner. Like many here said, if it's just about getting married, there's no need to spend anywhere near €20,000 if you have a small intimate ceremony.

bjork

A change in his work situation has left him unable to pay his mortgage - no wonder a wedding is the last thing on his mind.

Every wedding doesn't have to be a big white fairy tale affair costing thousands. The figure of €20,000 is nuts. You seem to resent having to pay the mortgage but if you were to leave would you be looking for half the house?

Penny Tration

You're talking about a wedding in a hotel, and a small wedding. Which one do you want? A small wedding isn't a hotel wedding. Hotel weddings are expensive.

Your post about you having more control now, and him doing what you want now is worrying. You shouldn't feel a need to have 'control' in a relationship. It should be give and take.

Tbh, I think you completely blindsided him with the marriage talk, and it sounds as though you just want a wedding to save face.

You say that if he loved you, he should want to marry you. Not true. So many people just don't want marriage, even though they love their partner.

You talk about your friends being engaged after a year or two - so they're engaged before they've even had a long term relationship with the person? How on earth is that more desirable than a 15 year relationship with someone you love, who has spent a hell of a long time proving his commitment by financially supporting you?

bjork

OP12345 wrote: »

.... So I feel like I have have to wait around and hope someday he wil do it, and im at the mercy of him, and im the type of person I like to know where I stand. And I don’t want to wait much longer, especially if we are to have kids, I would prefer to be married. .....

This might be how you feel, but this is your choice. You don't have to stay and wait around. You have options.

LegacyUser

Op relationships are about give and take and about helping each other out, your other half paid the mortgage for the last 8 years and now that he is down on his luck work wise you have to do this and are resentful about it!! What happens if you have kids and wanted to go part-time in your job , how would the financial situation be dealt with then?
There
It sounds like he is feeling very overwhelmed and stressed by the fact that he has no money, you have taken over all the bills and yet you want a to get married and have a wedding when neither you have any money!

If you want to get married then why not do it cheap in a registry office with witnesses? or a very small church wedding with your and his family only?
Also you said in your first post he would only get married if you had kids, well have you discussed this with me? When does he want kids? If you are in your 30s can you afford to wait any longer?

iMac_Hunt

bjork wrote: »

This might be how you feel, but this is your choice. You don't have to stay and wait around. You have options.

I feel if she keeps pressurising her partner, she won't have an option as he may leave her. Thread carefully OP.

kunst nugget

iMac_Hunt wrote: »

I feel if she keeps pressurising her partner, she won't have an option as he may leave her. Thread carefully OP.

But if they both want different things out of the relationship, why should they stay together? Resentment on either side is hardly conducive to a healthy relationship.

iusedtoknow

He just thinks it’s a waste spending 20k on a wedding, but if I opted for something small in a hotel or country house then it might not cost that much. I don’t want all the big fuss either.I just feel we are together so long and why hasn’t it happened by now and I should I really have to almost beg for something that I deserve.
So I only feel like my opinion matters in recent years cause before he would never listen he always did what he wanted. Now im older and more assertive and don’t let people walk all over me like I used to, I have more say and more control In the relationship than before, now he does a lot of what I want to do.

I've cut your reply...but my god OP. Why do you "deserve" anything? No one deserves ANYTHING in this life.

The above 2 cuts make you sound like a 2nd year at secondary playing house with someone. Relationships are about give and take - not "giving your time" and then getting what you want, or indeed about "control". How would you feel if you BF said that he had more control over you? It would be sexist and misogynistic.

You really need to as yourself the following questions

Do you want a marriage or the big wedding?
Do you actually love your partner?
Do you see any other qualities in your partner except for the fact that he has put a roof over your head and generally provided for you in the last 8 years?

Think long and hard about what YOU actually want and not what you think you deserve.

LegacyUser

You most certainly can get married for less than €20k! My husband and I got married for €2k and that included €500 for legal documents (we both needed passports and birth certs; one of us was born abroad so translations and an Apostille stamp along with the €200 registration fee). We got married in the registry office then had dinner for 15 in a local hotel. I got my dress on Adverts, made my own bouquet using plastic flowers, a friend made our cake. Does this sound like something you (and he) would be into or are you thinking more along the lines of €2k covering just the rings?

For us, we were together 12 years, engaged for 7 of them and it was almost an 'it's now or never' thing. The Wedding Fairy Godmother was showing no signs of cutting us a cheque so we either do it in a way we could afford or not do it at all. We're just as married as friends who spent €35k on their wedding. And no-ones wedding was 'better' or 'worse' than anyone else's. They're pretty much all the same. Massively forgettable except for your own.

LegacyUser

It costs €200 euro to get married. That's it.

You need to be honest with yourself. Do you want a Wedding or do you want to be married.
Weddings are expensive and very very stressful! Mine cost €7000 even when I cut out bridesmaids, grooms men, wedding rings - and anything else I felt was unnecessary. So the cost was mainly for the meal and the band. My husband already had a suit and my dress cost €230. If your husband is out of work then it is madness to even spend that amount on it.

If I was in your situation I would have a small civil ceremony and take a short holiday to celebrate. It will still be a nice romantic story to tell your friends.

Big Bag of Chips

OP, your posts do seem to be more about a wedding than being married. And you know, you're not wrong to want the big proposal with the lovely wedding to follow. It's what a lot of people (women?) hope for.... But you also have to be realistic in your expectations. You are together 15 years and you say it hasn't been a priority until recently. So it hasn't been a priority for either of you all this time, but now you've decided it IS a priority and you expect your bf to feel exactly the same. Neither of you are wrong!

But, you are wrong to stamp your foot and throw a tantrum because suddenly you feel you deserve more than what you have both been happy with for the past 15 years. He shouldn't have to buy you a ring. After living together for 8 years your finances should be so intertwined that a ring is bought... From your (pl) money. You mention that you are the kind of person who likes to know where they stand, but yet you are being very traditional and old fashioned about getting married. Expecting him to do all the leg work.

Children and timing is probably in the back of your mind, whereas he probably thinks there's plenty time. How about asking him how many children does he think he'd like, and what age would he like you both to be having them... Oldest you'd like to be having your first, oldest you'd be happy to be having your last. Add in age gaps between children and the 9 months of pregnancy. Then add on a few months potentially trying to conceive. Then add on the length of time it will take you to organise a wedding, big or small, and suddenly getting married isn't something that can be put off for too much longer.

But please, sort out your priorities. Sulking that he didn't buy a ring years ago, or probably won't go into competition with your friends for the most romantic proposal award, is not going to make your engagement happy. This is something your two as a couple want to do for yourselves, as a couple. Nobody else or what they think matters. This is a personal thing between two people. But some people making a song and dance about it puts others under pressure thinking they must do the same... Or even better!

Talk to your bf. No fights. No sulks. No talk of what you "deserve". Just two adults having an adult discussion about the next stage of their life together.

December2012

Marraige is a "for better for worse" situation.

Your partner has been with you through all of the better, and it seems you were happy to take advantage of his financial support and enjoy the good times.

Now he has less money and you are making his "bad" time into a "for worse" situation.

He is having a problem and you are giving him another problem.

Asking about marraige, the future and your relationship is fair. Emotionally blackmailing him is unfair. Being unrealistic is unfair. cimplaining that an engagement is what you deserve (!) is unfair.

Do you love him? Because you say nothing positive about him.

LegacyUser

Thanks for replies. Just to get things straight I'm not looking to spend 20k on a wedding that's what he thought it would cost originally and said it was a waste of money. But I do want a dress, a meal, and some music and a photographer. I want it to be special and in a church not a registry office. He said he can't afford 10k for a ring but I said he doesn't have to pay that much.
Can't log in asked me have we discussed next if kin, inheritance will etc and all the practical stuff and we haven't. He never talks about any of that stuff and he doesn't have a will. He's not the best organizer or planner so he tends to just go along with things and doesn't really plan ahead or think about the future or practical stuff. Out of the 2 of us I would be the more practical/ organizer.
I'm afraid to bring up the subject now cause Everytime i do he gets annoyed and we end up arguing or just ruining the evening. We both do want kids so maybe we just need to discuss when, he wants them very soon like a year or so but I want to be married before that. And if I ask him about marriage again he will say it's when he wants to, so I feel powerless unless I bring it up again. I know most men go along with it for the woman but they still want marriage and like the idea of it. My bf has no interest in any part of it. Both my friends finances couldn't wait to get married and were all excited but he just doesn't get excited about things like that and I suppose i just Feel a bit frustrated and don't know where to go from here. Thanks for advice and feedback, always good to hear other peoples stories and situations.

LegacyUser

Just saw the last 2 posts now. Bag of chips you make alot of sense and i will have to talk through what age we want kids etc, but he wants lots of kids, definately more than 2, so he is prob more worried about financially rather than when he wants them, Im sure if i got pregnant by accident tomorrow he would be delighted.
Our finances have not been intertwined, we have always had separate finances not for any reason but thats just the way it was. I have alot of friends like this too, and they hadnt a clue theyre bf were about to propose as they didn't have joint finances. Maybe i'm naive but most people i know their bf paid for it himself. Maybe i had this romantic notion of him getting the ring and it being a complete surprise like what happened all my friends. But now i know thats not the case with everyone.

LegacyUser

And December yes i do love him, maybe its just gotten a bit routine and boring as we are together so long and i tend to compare it with my friends new found relationships where they are doing all exciting things and their fiances are always surprising them with weekends away in paris etc, and i know we are in a different stage of our relationship.

tinkerbell

I think people are being a bit harsh on the OP. 15 years together and no sign of marriage. I have never been able to understand this "oh it's just a piece of paper rubbish". Eh no, it's not. It's about making a commitment to your partner. But more importantly, it is also about becoming their next of kin and if you have children, automatically getting rights to your children. Next of kin is a huge deal and not something to be scoffed at and is a major reason to get married assuming you do love the person and want to spend your life with them.

OP, it's like this. You want marriage and kids. He wants kids. Well you'll just have to tell him no marriage no kids then. There is nothing wrong with wanting to be married before you have kids first! And if he has no money, forget this crap of "doesn't have to be €20k wedding and doesn't have to spend €10k on a ring". If that's your attitude then you are on cloud cuckoo because he has no money so not spending close to €20k on a wedding or €10k on the ring should not even be on your radar. I'll hazard a guess that you prob want a ring of I dunno €5-7k and a wedding of €15k. Now forgive me if I've way over estimated that but that's the impression I get when you said he doesn't have to spend €10k on ring, €20k on wedding. Realistic people who don't have a truckload of cash don't just throw those kind of numbers around.

So, talk to your partner. Everything can be done on a budget. You can still have the church, a dress, photographer and a dinner if you do it as a small affair, not a big day out for all the family.

strobe

OP I really think you should try to drop it completely for now, from the conversation and from your own head, say for 6 months, let things settle. I'm not at all surprised he said your behaviour over it has put a bad taste in his mouth over the whole affair, he wouldn't be the only person by a long long way that would feel like that. A lot of people would be left re-evaluating whether or not the relationship at all was worth continuing, let alone getting married or having children. I don't think you realise just how badly you've come off here from what you've said. I really think you need to step back completely, and drop things for now. Go very easy. Yikes...

Wompa1

Why do you need a wedding at all? is it a wedding you're after or just marriage? It sounds like you want a wedding...

December2012

Are you showing him you love him? Because so far you have not behaved like somebody in love. From what you say you have behaved like somebody obsessed with getting married, and who is more concerned with what others will think.

You really arent behaving very nice to him.

kunst nugget

December2012 wrote: »

From what you say you have behaved like somebody obsessed with getting married, and who is more concerned with what others will think.

I don't really think that's it tbf. Obviously to be married, you're going to have a wedding ceremony of some sort - something the boyfriend doesn't want which is why it has become a sticky subject. I think she sees other people moving on with their lives while she probably feels that her own relationship is coasting - probably compounded by the fact that they are under more financial pressure now than they were previously making her feel as though maybe her chance has slipped by. The figures she has thrown out about the cost of a wedding and the ring seem to be the figures her boyfriend threw back at her when she broached the subject of an engagement and a wedding rather than what she has actually sat down and worked out as being her budget.

Priorities can change a lot from when you start dating as a teenager to being in your early thirties and I can see why it becomes a source of tension when one person wants to move on with their life while another seems happy to coast along at where they are. I know a lot of people don't see marriage as a big deal and complain about it being nothing more than a piece of paper but for me and many others it is a big deal. Eleven years of marriage later, it's still a big deal for me and my wife. It boils down to whether it's a big deal for the OP and if she thinks she'll end up resenting her partner if her relationship keeps drifting along as it is.

LegacyUser

tinkerbell wrote: »

I think people are being a bit harsh on the OP. 15 years together and no sign of marriage. I have never been able to understand this "oh it's just a piece of paper rubbish". Eh no, it's not. It's about making a commitment to your partner. But more importantly, it is also about becoming their next of kin and if you have children, automatically getting rights to your children. Next of kin is a huge deal and not something to be scoffed at and is a major reason to get married assuming you do love the person and want to spend your life with them.

Agree 100% with this. It is completely natural to want marriage with your partner of 15 years.

OP I spent almost eight years with my ex BF (living with him five years in his house) and we had talked about marriage and he always said we'd do it "in a few years". It wasn't a priority for him but he'd do it because it was important to me. Well guess what, the years came and went and he never wanted to marry me. The truth is he had a handy number having a live-in girlfriend but as soon as it became apparent that some sort of commitment was expected, and he couldn't keep kicking the can down the road any longer, he bailed. Which left me completely shell shocked, heartbroken and out of my home.

I'm not saying this is going to happen to you OP, but the fact is that when you move into someone else's house with no commitment you are vulnerable. I believed that my boyfriend loved me and would never hurt me like this because he said all the right things, but actions speak louder than words and he dragged his heels until he was forced to admit he didn't want to marry me.

Now obviously money is an issue, but as the previous posters have said you don't have to spend a lot. But you definitely need to know that this person loves you and wants to spend the rest of his life with you.

skallywag

Basmati12345 wrote: »

Looking to hear from people who are/were in a long term relationship without getting married

Myself and my partner are together 10 years, have a child and a house together. Neither of us have any interest in getting married at the moment.

Stench Blossoms

tinkerbell wrote: »

I think people are being a bit harsh on the OP. 15 years together and no sign of marriage. I have never been able to understand this "oh it's just a piece of paper rubbish". Eh no, it's not. It's about making a commitment to your partner. But more importantly, it is also about becoming their next of kin and if you have children, automatically getting rights to your children. Next of kin is a huge deal and not something to be scoffed at and is a major reason to get married assuming you do love the person and want to spend your life with them.

And if that's all the OP wanted she could do it on the cheap in a registry office.

The OP sounds like she wants a wedding more than the marriage.

But I do want a dress, a meal, and some music and a photographer. I want it to be special and in a church not a registry office.

Big Bag of Chips

What I mean about your finances being intertwined is do you pick up each other's slack? If you are short a few quid coming up to payday would he give you €20? Or would he loan you €20 that you would pay back when you got paid? You are now paying the mortgage for a few months. Are you paying it because you see it as contributing to your home, or is it just a loan to him and you expect him to pay it back to you when things pick up again?

When you've been living together for so long your finances usually just sort of blend together and become 1. So even if you both have your own accounts and your own expenses the money is still in effect pooled together. Neither of you would see the other one short.

So.. If you want a ring, would you not go out together and have a look and buy it out of "the" money... Yours and/or his. Would you not be happy with that? Does it have to be a certain type of proposal with a ring that he picked out and paid for? What if he does that and you don't really like the style of ring?! Your relationship is in a different phase to that of your friends, and your bf is a different person to their bfs. So you really can't compare the 2. And you shouldn't compare the two.

Do you love him? He is willing to compromise on marriage. You might have to compromise on the wedding.

woodchuck

beentheretoo wrote: »

Agree 100% with this. It is completely natural to want marriage with your partner of 15 years.

OP I spent almost eight years with my ex BF (living with him five years in his house) and we had talked about marriage and he always said we'd do it "in a few years". It wasn't a priority for him but he'd do it because it was important to me. Well guess what, the years came and went and he never wanted to marry me. The truth is he had a handy number having a live-in girlfriend but as soon as it became apparent that some sort of commitment was expected, and he couldn't keep kicking the can down the road any longer, he bailed. Which left me completely shell shocked, heartbroken and out of my home.

I'm not saying this is going to happen to you OP, but the fact is that when you move into someone else's house with no commitment you are vulnerable. I believed that my boyfriend loved me and would never hurt me like this because he said all the right things, but actions speak louder than words and he dragged his heels until he was forced to admit he didn't want to marry me.

Now obviously money is an issue, but as the previous posters have said you don't have to spend a lot. But you definitely need to know that this person loves you and wants to spend the rest of his life with you.

Do I have an alternate persona I'm not aware of that wrote this?! Because I literally could've written this myself based on my own experience. Maybe our two experiences are rare... but because I've lived through it, this is where my mind goes in this situation too. Maybe the OP's boyfriend has just been lazy, but it could also easily be that he just doesn't want to commit and he just wants to have his cake and eat it too. My ex also trotted out the whole 'want to be married, but not have the hassle of a wedding' line. I am by no means the bridezilla type though and it turned out that all of his reasons were just excuses.

I understand that at the moment it may not be feasible from a financial point of view, but I would also be worried after 15 years. And yes, people have a point you can do it on a shoestring if you need to and that 20k is a ridiculous amount to have in mind. But there is a happy medium and I'm sure a lot of people would want to make a nice day of it instead of just going to the registry office followed by the local pub :rolleyes:

harney

can't log in wrote: »

Your incorrect there OP you would have a claim on the house as a cohabiting couple.

It is not as clearcut as you believe.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth_family_relationships/problems_in_marriages_and_other_relationships/property_rights_and_the_breakdown_of_a_cohabiting_relationship.html

According to the website:

If a cohabiting couple in Ireland splits up, the family home (and other family assets) will belong to the person who holds the legal title to the home/assets. This means that in the case of the family home, the person who originally bought the house and whose name is on the title deeds will usually own the house.

paulmclaughlin

It's not as clearcut as you believe either. From the exact same webpage:

However, if your relationship breaks down and your name is not on the title deeds to the house, you may still be able to show that you have some ownership rights in relation to the house. These rights are based on the fact that you made a contribution to the purchase price of the house with the intention of gaining a share in the ownership of the house.

Contributions to the purchase price of the house can be direct or indirect. Direct contributions include contributions to the initial down payment for the house or contributions to the mortgage installments. Indirect contributions may include paying some of the other day-to-day household expenses or unpaid work in the legal owner of the house's business. It has been held by the courts that working in the home looking after children and money spent or work done on home improvements are not contributions that give you any right of ownership in relation to the house.

As well as showing that you made a financial contribution to the purchase price of the house, you must also show that your contribution was made with the intention of gaining a share in the ownership of the house and that you were not making a gift of the money to the legal owner of the house

harney

paulmclaughlin wrote: »

It's not as clearcut as you believe either. From the exact same webpage:

Which it doesn't sound like the OP did, hence quoting the part I did. Apart from a few payments recently, it looks like the OP has never provided any money towards the house over quite a number of years.

paulmclaughlin

harney wrote: »

Which it doesn't sound like the OP did, hence quoting the part I did. Apart from a few payments recently, it looks like the OP has never provided any money towards the house over quite a number of years.

Those few payments will still count.

harney

paulmclaughlin wrote: »

Those few payments will still count.

Personally I wouldn't bank on two payments (she said a couple of payments) after ~90 (we have no idea how long he owns the house, it could be more) odd payments being made as enough to get rights to a house, but stranger things have happened I guess.

woodchuck

paulmclaughlin, harney, I think you've both demonstrated that it's not that clear cut! And the last thing you want to do in a breakup is be drawn into such legalities and be painted as the bad guy. I was in a similar situation before and I wouldn't have felt right at all about trying to stake a claim on a house that I didn't feel was actually mine (despite having made significant financial contributions).

So when you're not married, it can lead to a feeling of a lack of security. We all know that marriages can breakdown, but at least when somebody makes that commitment you know that they're serious about your future together and you're not worried about either being shifted out of the other persons house, or having to fight for a claim in that house. And with a divorce the law is already involved, but nobody wants to have to be the one to get the law involved in a breakup to get what they're entitled to.

LegacyUser

Kunstnugget, you hit the nail on the head. And woodchuck and beentheretoo, i think you can understand where im coming from without saying oh all she wants is a wedding etc etc.
Come on, I was never ever one of those women who said oh i want a ring. I think they are superficial and I am not that type of person. But a mixture of things, we are together since we are teenagers, we have done all the fun stuff, now in early 30's, and my priorities are changing, i suppose im 'growing up' and am starting to think about children and honestly was never a type who dreamt of a big white wedding but now as i said i am going through a stage of my life where i am actually starting to think ok i definately want a family, and obviously marriage is coming into the picture. No I do not want to get married just for the wedding. Whats the point in that, im not that stupid. But if i WAS to get married, then yes i dont think its much to want by having a nice wedding day thats memorable, and that i can look back on and share with family and friends. Not a big 20 k wedding, ok, maybe something with all the people i want there family and close friends. Im sorry but i do not have to justify why i would want this. I dont like the idea of a registry office and pub, might suit some people and thats fine but its not me, but thats not to say im materialistic and all i want is a 'wedding'. What about all the other people out there who get married and have weddings, are they all only doing it for the wedding??

Sorry to hear it didnt work out 'beentheretoo' who knows that could be me! TBH i think hes just lazy, and always says he is commited to me etc and i believe him. hes not the flirty type, just very laid back when it comes to events and he hates fuss. I know we can do it for less than 20k. and thanks for pointing out, he threw out the figure of 10k for a ring, not me. i think thats alot to pay just for a ring.
Bagofchips, no i do not expect him to pay this mortgage money back, im doing it as its our home. we would always help each other out, but we never really had to. and if i borrowed money if i couldnt get to bank i would give it back to him.
So to get things straight, im not just looking for a wedding. I feel like some of you can understand, that after 15 yrs i kinda want to know if its going to happen, as it is something i want in my life and i am entitled to have my values.
I dont want to be out with no home if we ever did break up, as happened one of the posters. When you hit your 30's priorities change and security, family, marriage are natural things that one may find themselves wanting. we were too busy having fun in our 20's to think about it, but now I want to know where i am going in my life, and theres nothing wrong with that.

Big Bag of Chips

You're right OP, there is nothing wrong with wanting what you want.. But you admit yourself it wasn't a priority for either of you until now. Now it has suddenly become a priority for you, and you expect him to be on the same time line as you. It is not a priority for him. He hasn't said he won't marry you, he has actually said he would marry you, and has mentioned kids.

So talk to him, about marriage, kids etc. Tell him you want kids, but you want to be married before you have kids. But please accept that your timing is really really really bad! Have you been saving for a wedding all these years? Have you savings either separately or between you that you can use? He cannot afford the mortgage at the moment, and you are telling him that you have now decided the time has come to get married.

You are entitled to want anything you want.. But you also have to be realistic in what you can actually have. I hope it works out for you, but you need to be convincing him... Not us!

jimmycrackcorm

skallywag wrote:

Myself and my partner are together 10 years, have a child and a house together. Neither of us have any interest in getting married at the moment.

I'm open to correction but I believe a key benefit in being married is transfer of property rights to a surviving spouse upon death. Op might ask her partner if it is his intention to leave her homeless were he to die after say ten or twenty years?

December2012

oP - you've had lots of opinions now. Can you not see how you're coming across?

To me you are coming across as stomping your feet and demanding a proposal.

You are not talking about love, you are talking about what you deserve. Instead of talking positively about your man, who has funded you for a long time, you call him lazy and talk of you being with him for 15 years.

I am surprised that you think that your behaviour as you describe it would result in a proposal - you're not even being nice to the guy you want to marry. Instead you're moaning.

You cannot just expect something to change, suddenly and quickly just because it suits you.

I suggest you figure out a way to communicate better with your boyfriend, because right now your behaviour is childish.

By all means couples discuss relationships progression, getting engaged etc. But it doesn't sound like you are discussing anything. It sounds like you are demanding,