The 2015 In Between Grand Slam Thread

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Floppybits wrote: »

That depends on what way they do the seedings for the French, do they take a players record on clay as well as their world ranking into account when doing the seedings, similar to what they do at Wimbledon, if this is the case I could see him being at 2 and not 3 but either way Djokovic will have to beat him and I hope it is Djokovic that does beat him and not some unknown in the early rounds that catch him out or that he his injured or sick.

Wimbledon are the only Slam that alters seedings. I don't know that there's any actual rules about it but as far as I remember Wimbledon are the only ones that have ever had seedings different to rankings.

the_monkey

Nishikori seeded #1 for BCN ...

Ironically this week Nadal has moved above him to #4 ..

Floppybits

the_monkey wrote: »

Nishikori seeded #1 for BCN ...

Ironically this week Nadal has moved above him to #4 ..

The BCN doesn't look like a great tournament, going the top 16 ranked players.

1 Kei Nishikori (JPN)
2 Rafael Nadal (ESP)
3 David Ferrer (ESP)
4 Marin Cilic (CRO)
5 Feliciano Lopez (ESP)
6 Jo-Wilfried Tsonga (FRA)
7 Roberto Bautista Agut (ESP)
8 Ernests Gulbis (LAT)
9 Tommy Robredo (ESP)
10 Pablo Cuevas (URU)
11 Leonardo Mayer (ARG)
12 Philipp Kohlschreiber (GER)
13 Fabio Fognini (ITA)
14 Martin Klizan (SVK)
15 Santiago Giraldo (COL)
16 Nick Kyrgios (AUS)

the_monkey

Floppybits wrote: »

The BCN doesn't look like a great tournament, going the top 16 ranked players.

1 Kei Nishikori (JPN)
2 Rafael Nadal (ESP)
3 David Ferrer (ESP)
4 Marin Cilic (CRO)
5 Feliciano Lopez (ESP)
6 Jo-Wilfried Tsonga (FRA)
7 Roberto Bautista Agut (ESP)
8 Ernests Gulbis (LAT)
9 Tommy Robredo (ESP)
10 Pablo Cuevas (URU)
11 Leonardo Mayer (ARG)
12 Philipp Kohlschreiber (GER)
13 Fabio Fognini (ITA)
14 Martin Klizan (SVK)
15 Santiago Giraldo (COL)
16 Nick Kyrgios (AUS)

True it's more like a 250 then a 500 ....


Maybe it's too close to Monte Carlo ...

anyway, I wish I was aware of James McGee great run in Mexico

http://jamesmcgeetennis.com/

long may it continue ..

RosyLily

Floppybits wrote: »

That depends on what way they do the seedings for the French, do they take a players record on clay as well as their world ranking into account when doing the seedings, similar to what they do at Wimbledon, if this is the case I could see him being at 2 and not 3 but either way Djokovic will have to beat him and I hope it is Djokovic that does beat him and not some unknown in the early rounds that catch him out or that he his injured or sick.

I do see Djokovic beating him, the changes Djokovic has made by getting Becker in and what is on the history making at the French Open is what will get him over the line. Djokovic has a chip on his shoulder because he is doesn't have the same appeal or is not considered a great like Nadal and Federer and if he can win the French beating the best clay court player then that will put him up there with Nadal and Federer.

Good point! He gets overshadowed by the other two and doesn't like it. Maybe I'm wrong, but I wonder would Djokovic feel his career is incomplete if he retires without a French Open title. And even if he goes on to win the FO, will people consider him one of the greats?

That Barcelona line-up is fairly blah. Hopefully Madrid is better.

yerwanthere123

the_monkey wrote: »

No mention of Djokovic winning the 1st 3 masters of the season ???


Surprised the mens game gets so little talk here .. far superior to the WTA yet thats all that gets discussed really here.

Djokovic looking good for French ?

Mind you it looked that way last year too ...

Nadal still favourite for sure.

That'd be a matter of opinion.

But yes, Djokovic is playing incredibly right now, although it's not as if there's someone to consistently challenge him either. He set a few records yesterday as well, as previously mentioned he's the first to win the first three masters in a season, he also has the largest gap between an ATP #1 and #2. I'm sure there was something else as well. I just wish I actually liked him

yerwanthere123

RosyLily wrote: »

Good point! He gets overshadowed by the other two and doesn't like it. Maybe I'm wrong, but I wonder would Djokovic feel his career is incomplete if he retires without a French Open title. And even if he goes on to win the FO, will people consider him one of the greats?

That Barcelona line-up is fairly blah. Hopefully Madrid is better.

I think winning a second Wimbledon sealed the deal in this regard. Winning RG, his 9th slam and completing the career grand slam would make it beyond any doubt.

Johnmb

the_monkey wrote: »

Unlikely they will meet in the final, I reckon Nadal will be seeded 3 ... so ..

There's a 50/50 chance of them being in opposite halves of the draw, so it's not that unlikely. Federer will be hoping Nadal ends up in the other half of the draw, I don't think Djokovic cares with the results he's been having against Nadal lately!

lostcat

yerwanthere123 wrote: »

I think winning a second Wimbledon sealed the deal in this regard. Winning RG, his 9th slam and completing the career grand slam would make it beyond any doubt.

I think he is going to end up with double digit slams. inc. a French, although if he wins a French this year I can see him taking the foot off the pedal for the year, he's already looking a bit mentally 'leggy'.

He is also likely to break Nadals record for Masters 1000 titles before he finishes. In the age of possibly the two best players 'ever', he cant but be seen as being in the mix if he achieves the above.

Nadal made an interesting comment during monte carlo that he didn't feel that the new wave of players are 'stepping up', which its hard to disagree with. Djokovic won his first slam at I think 20, Federer at 22, Del potro won his at 20ish as well, and I think Nadal was 14 or something when he won his first.

Most of the 'young guns' are now approaching mid twenties, with maybe 3 or 4 masters titles between them. This is partly down to the excellence of the top 3/4, sure, but seriously, one of them has to step it up soon?

Floppybits

RosyLily wrote: »

Good point! He gets overshadowed by the other two and doesn't like it. Maybe I'm wrong, but I wonder would Djokovic feel his career is incomplete if he retires without a French Open title. And even if he goes on to win the FO, will people consider him one of the greats?

That Barcelona line-up is fairly blah. Hopefully Madrid is better.

Madrid and rome are atp 1000 so you get the better players. I was at rome last year and it was great.

I think there is something unlikable about djokovic compared to nadal and Federer. Maybe it is down to his behaviour prior to 2011. If he wins the french open and holds all 4 slams he will be considered one of the greats but I don't think he will ever be a popular as greats like Federer, Nadal, edberg, agassi, becker, mcenroe to name a few.

RosyLily

TBH, I can't see Djokovic being mentioned in the same way people talk about Federer, Nadal, McEnroe, Laver etc. But maybe that'll change over the next few years.

Oh, how was Rome Floppybits?? I've never been to a clay tournament. Would you recommend it?

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

The only thing Djokovic has in the plus column over Nadal/Federer when it comes to being called one of "the greatest" is that he has achieved all his trophies in the same era as two players who are considered "the greatest".
Federer was unchallenged for a large proportion of his career. Nadal came along and eventually managed to reach the same level although mostly on clay.
Djokovic has won all of his slams while Federer and Nadal were still considered to be at the top of their game.

Rjd2

He will go down as a legend, but he really should have won the US Open more than he has, once is more than most, but so often he has been the best player on that surface. He also does need to win the French as well, however I am sure he knows this.

Floppybits

RosyLily wrote: »

TBH, I can't see Djokovic being mentioned in the same way people talk about Federer, Nadal, McEnroe, Laver etc. But maybe that'll change over the next few years.

Oh, how was Rome Floppybits?? I've never been to a clay tournament. Would you recommend it?

Rome was fantastic. It was my first proper tennis tournament to go too and I get to see the Murray/Nadal match which was one of the best matches last year. Still have the pictures from it I was about 6 rows from the front for that match. The great thing is that all the Tennis manufacturers and clothing companies are there so I actually got to try on tennis shoes to get my proper size.

Djokovic is a legend with 8 grand slam titles but I just don't think he has the charisma or personality like Federer, Nadal, Becker or Agassi.

walshb

The only trump Nadal and Federer have on Nole is that they have a lot more slams. That could change. I see Nole winning at least 3 more. That brings him to 11 or so. He could well eclipse Nadal on 27 1000 titles in the next year or so. I like Nole, but he doesn't have the same adulation and global appeal name wise as the other two. That affects his all time rating. He is level with Federer on head to heads and trails Nadal by 1 or 2?

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Peppermintoil wrote: »

Federer was past peak when he one all his slams. In fact his very first slam in Australia 2008 was the beginning of the Federer decline when he got Rheumatic Fever, an illness which ended Soderling's career. In the last couple years both Nadal and Federer have been shadows of their peak selves.

Federer won 5 slams after the Australian Open of 2008. If that's him being in decline good for him.

walshb

You know, the Fed of 2009 was probably the strongest Fed there was. His FO and SW19 wins were phenomenal. His SW19 final win against Roddick was unreal.

RosyLily

walshb wrote: »

You know, the Fed of 2009 was probably the strongest Fed there was. His FO and SW19 wins were phenomenal. His SW19 final win against Roddick was unreal.

Yeah, that match against Roddick was phenomenal!! One of my favourites. Can't believe it was nearly 6 years ago!!:eek:

the_monkey

Nadal out in BCN .... Fognini 64 76(6)

Still overwhelming favourite for RG...

yerwanthere123

A lot of people writing Nadal off. He had a very average clay season (by his standards) last year and still won RG.

the_monkey

yerwanthere123 wrote: »

A lot of people writing Nadal off. He had a very average clay season (by his standards) last year and still won RG.

Exactly, I said he's still overwhelming favourite ..

yerwanthere123

Players who have beaten Rafael Nadal multiple times on clay in a season:

Novak Djokovic (2011)
Fabio Fognini (2015)

:pac:

yerwanthere123

Dafuq is happening to you Maria

the_monkey

yerwanthere123 wrote: »

Players who have beaten Rafael Nadal multiple times on clay in a season:

Novak Djokovic (2011)
Fabio Fognini (2015)

:pac:

When did Fognini beat him before today in 2015 ?


edit I see now, Rio


http://www.atpworldtour.com/Players/Head-To-Head.aspx?pId=F510&oId=N409

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

yerwanthere123 wrote: »

Dafuq is happening to you Maria

She's got enough Porsches. Doesn't need another one.

Be funny if Kerber manages to beat Makarova in the QF too. The two highest ranked Russians who missed Fed Cup and Germany still couldn't beat them.

yerwanthere123

It's not the Porsche's I'm worried about :pac: Hope she sorts herself out in time for Paris.

I imagine it'll be a Simona charge to the title now. Simona-Garcia final would be good.

RosyLily

Just thank God she didn't bow out 6-0, 6-0 like Lisicki. That was hideous! I'd welcome a Halep-Garcia final. Something different.

lostcat

yerwanthere123 wrote: »

A lot of people writing Nadal off. He had a very average clay season (by his standards) last year and still won RG.

Not so sure.

Nadal got into his clay groove early in 2014, winning one or more 250s or 500s in south America (no big deal, but good for confidence and a lot better than he did on his spin around there this year)

He also won Madrid and lost the Rome final to Djokovic in three sets.

So last years season was a lot better than this one is looking thus far. I really think Nadal is in a spot of bother, and if he doesn't win or at the very least get to the later stages of both Rome and Madrid he will have three problems in Paris:

- Low confidence, he is playing poorly at the moment, and only has two tournaments left to find a bit of form and confidence
- Reduced fear factor in the locker room, a lot of snipers will see this as a great chance (hell, even if I was Fognini now I wouldn't mind having another crack off him!)
- He cannot gain ranking points in Madrid and if he looses early in Rome he is likely to be seeded 5th in Paris, meaning he could meet Djokovic in the quarters or semi. I think the earlier he meets Djokovic the more chance there is of Djokovic beating him.

He will be the favourite, and rightly so, but 'overwhelming'? I can't see it atm.

yerwanthere123

lostcat wrote: »

Not so sure.

Nadal got into his clay groove early in 2014, winning one or more 250s or 500s in south America (no big deal, but good for confidence and a lot better than he did on his spin around there this year)

He also won Madrid and lost the Rome final to Djokovic in three sets.

So last years season was a lot better than this one is looking thus far. I really think Nadal is in a spot of bother, and if he doesn't win or at the very least get to the later stages of both Rome and Madrid he will have three problems in Paris:

- Low confidence, he is playing poorly at the moment, and only has two tournaments left to find a bit of form and confidence
- Reduced fear factor in the locker room, a lot of snipers will see this as a great chance (hell, even if I was Fognini now I wouldn't mind having another crack off him!)
- He cannot gain ranking points in Madrid and if he looses early in Rome he is likely to be seeded 5th in Paris, meaning he could meet Djokovic in the quarters or semi. I think the earlier he meets Djokovic the more chance there is of Djokovic beating him.

He will be the favourite, and rightly so, but 'overwhelming'? I can't see it atm.

Very good points. I think we'll know a lot more after Madrid and Rome. But even if they go poorly, and he is set up to meet Djokovic in the QF's, I'd still make him the favourite at RG.

Plus, despite his sublime form right now, Novak has been prone to mental lapses in the past, particularly in Paris. I think if he puts too much pressure on himself to win he could really play into Nadal's hands. All to be seen.

walshb

Sentire wrote: »

Federer in 2009 was better than 2008 but his level was well below 2005 and 2006 levels. He barely managed to beat his pigeon in the final at Wimbledon and barely managed to win the French open even after Nadal was knocked out in the other half. He threw away the Us open final to del Potto.

Nonsense. Well below 2005 and 2006? Different era and time as regards the strength and depth. Nadal was only beginning then, as was Novak. Federer simply began facing stronger and more mature and great great players from 2007 onwards. Players were coming into their physical best. Federer in 2008 and 2009 was a more complete and intelligent player, as well as still having his natural skills and speed and grace. The Federer from 2007-2009 was a better player than the Federer of 2005-2006.

BTW, Roddick played astonishing well in 2009 SW19 Final. Federer played fantastic as well. His serve was on fire.

He won the FO 2009, even though you want to make out that he struggled so badly. He won the bloody tournament. Let's not make out that the field was weak. Soderling beat Nadal for chrissake, the man who had beaten Federer for the 3 previous years. Of course it was going to be hard fought. Federer is human.