Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Read Mod Warning in OP 7/1/15

bangkok

homerjay2005 wrote: »

Moyes didnt deserve the job, its that simple. he had no respect from the players, no clue or respect in the transfer market, the club and job was too big for him and he turned a league winning team into 7th place in the league. he made mistake after mistake.

LVG by all intents and purpose, deserved a shot at it and is/was perhaps, the ideal replacement for Ferguson apart from Jose.

why is LVG getting a free pass? well first answer is he is not, theres been alot of discontent over the last few weeks and deservedly so. the second answer is that no matter how s*it weve been doing, the important factor was that 4 of the 6 teams who finished above us have been even worse, until mid december. LVG took over a 7th place team and a broken one as he called it. up until the last few days of the window, at which we'd already dropped 7 points, we essentially had a weaker squad than last season.

weve also had a horrific injury list.

the other side of things is no matter what was said on here and in the media, Moyes got more patience and support than any manager got over the last decade in the PL. he'd have been sacked and driven out of the ground by early December in most clubs, especially the bigger ones.

why not? he was probably the standout candidate at the time of his appointment but looking back at it now he was on a hiding to nothing. No support from rio vida etc from what looks like the very beginning backed up by the fact the woodward seemed lost in the transfer market.

kstand

I'm not happy with LVG - he went and spent a lot of money, we had to CL to worry about, were gone out the of Carling Cup after 1 game and have had the easiest 2 games in the first 2 rounds of the cup we could have hoped for. We are playing **** and have no excuses and I know from those I spoke to at Tottenham that patience is wearing a little bit thin.

homerjay2005

Whatsisname wrote: »

More Rojo

while i had my reservations about him (in the sense that i didnt see the point in signing him, Shaw and Blind ) as a centerback, i have to say he has been excellent when he has played.

i think its safe to state that he has been the best of the 6 signings and he looks such a classy player.

how would people rate the other 5 in order of impact, performance. id go

1- Rojo
2 - Blind
3 - Di Maria
4 - Falcao
5 - Herrera
6- Shaw

largely as a group, they have been disappointing, with injuries of course hampering their seasons, plus LVG either not playing them or playing them in the wrong positions.

Giggsy11

bangkok wrote: »

id just love to know, why the hate for moyes last year when what van gaal has done this season is much worse?

Proven track record and at least by the look of things he hasn't lost the dressing room yet.

Last season was a horror show, not sure how anyone can support Moyes is beyond me.

bangkok

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Proven track record and at least by the look of things he hasn't lost the dressing room yet.

Last season was a horror show, not sure how anyone can support Moyes is beyond me.

not supporting moyes but come on, we are in January now and van gaal is still persisting with 3 at the back when every single poster on here is calling for a change.... surely that in itself proves change from him is needed, and I don't mean a new manager I mean a change of tactics!!!

he keeps going on about his philosophy but I don't think anybody has a clue what its meant to be and I don't even think he knows himself.

Giggsy11

homerjay2005 wrote: »

while i had my reservations about him (in the sense that i didnt see the point in signing him, Shaw and Blind ) as a centerback, i have to say he has been excellent when he has played.

i think its safe to state that he has been the best of the 6 signings and he looks such a classy player.

how would people rate the other 5 in order of impact, performance. id go

1- Rojo
2 - Blind
3 - Di Maria
4 - Falcao
5 - Herrera
6- Shaw

largely as a group, they have been disappointing, with injuries of course hampering their seasons, plus LVG either not playing them or playing them in the wrong positions.

You had your reservations but many people said Rojo is not a LB, he is a CB. Saying he was signed as a LB along with Blind and Shaw was for clueless Sky pundits. For everyone it was clear that Blind and Rojo were not signed to play as LB primarily.

On the ranking I would say he is second to Blind.

1. Blind
2. Rojo
3. Di Maria
4. Herrera
5. Shaw
6. Falcao

Like you said injury problems stopped them playing to their full potential, all 6 are talented enough to have a good careers are United except Falcao who we might not sign permanently.

Lord TSC

bangkok wrote: »

why not? he was probably the standout candidate at the time of his appointment but looking back at it now he was on a hiding to nothing. No support from rio vida etc from what looks like the very beginning backed up by the fact the woodward seemed lost in the transfer market.

What made him the standout candidate? If he hadn't been British, then there's no way he'd have gotten the job based on his CV. He got it for the romanticism of having a British manager who would stay for 25+ years at the club, as opposed to actually having any proper credentials for the job....

Giggsy11

bangkok wrote: »

not supporting moyes but come on, we are in January now and van gaal is still persisting with 3 at the back when every single poster on here is calling for a change.... surely that in itself proves change from him is needed, and I don't mean a new manager I mean a change of tactics!!!

he keeps going on about his philosophy but I don't think anybody has a clue what its meant to be and I don't even think he knows himself.

Yeah he lost boards.ie support but not dressing room

Seriously though, I have posted against Van Gaal as much as anyone when he played back 3 and that **** tactics but when it comes to players he has not lost it, at least yet.

homerjay2005

bangkok wrote: »

why not?

so lets put this another way, why did he deserve it? to be the manager of this club, you need to be a born winner and have a bigger presence than the club (if thats possible.) Moyes had a small time mentality and when you come out with lines like "we will try to make it difficult for Newcastle" then you know its not the right man for the job. you need to have respect in the game, earn the right to be the manager and be a presence the players look up to. Moyes didnt have it.

Fergie had it
Jose has it
LVG has it
Carlo has it
Wenger has it

bangkok wrote: »

he was probably the standout candidate at the time of his appointment

errm what? he wouldnt have been on my top 20 list and i think being honest, about 90% of fans would have felt the same.

the day Fergie retired and it was clear he was getting the job, there was an poll of United fans done and only 12% of people were happy to have him get it.

TheDoc

Lord TSC wrote: »

What made him the standout candidate? If he hadn't been British, then there's no way he'd have gotten the job based on his CV. He got it for the romanticism of having a British manager who would stay for 25+ years at the club, as opposed to actually having any proper credentials for the job....

David Gill publicly made the criteria for selection very clear.

One of the main points being the club feel the squad in place is capable of challenging for the title for years to come, and the club are not looking for a manager to tear it apart. There will be the assumption a new manager might bring one or two of his own signings in, but the club were not looking for someone to tear the squad apart.

I literally cannot comprehend how this get's argued, disputed, debated over and over. The club made it very public the criteria they wished to replace SAF with, and Moyes ticked all those boxes. Being British wasn't one of them.


The club totally overestimated the SAF effect, including the man himself. This summer we had relatively major changes, and there will probably be more this summer coming. Something that should have started last summer.

TheDoc

homerjay2005 wrote: »

so lets put this another way, why did he deserve it? to be the manager of this club, you need to be a born winner and have a bigger presence than the club (if thats possible.) Moyes had a small time mentality and when you come out with lines like "we will try to make it difficult for Newcastle" then you know its not the right man for the job.

It's all good saying that retrospectively. Hardly was the line being bombed out from day one. And considering how bad the squad was, and how bad the standard of play was, I'm not surprised he reigned in expectations and playing billy big bollocks.

To get into the managerial category of "elite" you need someone to take a punt on you. Arsenal took a gamble on Wenger, Porto on Mourinho and so forth.

To be an elite manager, or a top manager, you need to typically display qualities and essentially portray the image that the only reason you arn't in that elite category already is because you don't have a squad of high quality, or the financial backing.

Moyes ticked a lot of boxes based on the criteria the club wanted. I think a lot of Untied fans got the hump because we didn't sign some massive name like other big clubs.

We took a chance on promoting an experienced manager and see if he could make the step up. It didn't work out, we now have a big name in the hotseat. And we will probably now enter the merrygo round of changing managers every 3 seasons etc.

Personally have no problem with it, but I don't think it was a bad decision by the club to try emulate another Ferguson by getting a manager in with a view to a genuine long term.

Rayne Wooney

so Rooney in midfield for the foreseeable future

This really písses me off

IvySlayer

Lord TSC wrote: »

What made him the standout candidate? If he hadn't been British, then there's no way he'd have gotten the job based on his CV. He got it for the romanticism of having a British manager who would stay for 25+ years at the club, as opposed to actually having any proper credentials for the job....

If he wasn't Scottish he wouldn't of got the job.

After all he was 'cut from the same cloth' as Ferguson

The Moldy Gowl

IvySlayer wrote: »

If he wasn't Scottish he wouldn't of got the job.

Would you stop.

bullvine

Harry Redknapp was a better candidate that Moyes, hes actually Won something and did a very good job at Spurs before he took his eye off the ball trying to get the England job.

Not that I would have wanted him as manager!

PhlegmyMoses

TheDoc wrote: »

Also a serious lack of Fellaini nutmeg gif in here today.......

And the fact that he got a sneaky elbow off Hill when trying to go past.

What goes around comes around I suppose. Anybody think we could do with trying a 4231 with Fellaini in the 3 causing mayhem? He is just so different to what most other clubs have in that area.

IvySlayer

Anyone else think LVGs formation is to get more money to buy some player?

Same with Rooney in midfield

Julez

bangkok wrote: »

he keeps going on about his philosophy but I don't think anybody has a clue what its meant to be and I don't even think he knows himself.

homerjay2005

TheDoc wrote: »

It's all good saying that retrospectively.

theres nothing retrospect about it. alot of fans didnt want him but were willing to give him a chance once he got it.

patience ran out on him at variant levels - mine was a matter of weeks, others was 2 or 3 months, others gave up on him in February or march, the majority wanted him out by April, with a few people still holding on to "but Fergie said".

crucially however, it appears the players never wanted him and gave up on him around october.

Whatsisname

Ballague (my phone autocorrects it to Ballbag :pac:) says Valencia have rejected a €35m offer for Otamendi from us

bangkok

van gaal at Barcelona 97-2000....

he clashed with the media and came under criticism. Van Gaal expressed that it was difficult to implement his football philosophy at Barcelona due to cultural differences, and that he struggled hard as some players were unwilling to follow his lead
van gaal at barca 2002-03......

After four wins, four draws and three defeats from their opening 11 league matches, Barcelona lost three matches in a row, to Real Sociedad, relegation-threatened Rayo Vallecano and Sevilla. Two wins and a draw improved things but after successive defeats to Valencia and Celta de Vigo, he left by mutual consent on 28 January 2003 with the club in 12th place, just three points above the relegation zone and 20 points behind leaders Real Sociedad.

His transfers, particularly the signings of goalkeeper Robert Enke, midfielder Gaizka Mendieta and playmaker Juan Román Riquelme, all disappointed. Riquelme had been bought to replace Rivaldo, whom Van Gaal had released on a free transfer despite having a year left on his contract. The two had fallen out during Van Gaal's previous tenure and after Van Gaal returned, Rivaldo said: "Van Gaal is the main cause of my departure. I don't like Van Gaal, and I am sure that he doesn't like me, either." Van Gaal replied that Rivaldo's lack of commitment was the reason he was released, saying that he "was only interested in making more money and playing less. He was chosen as the best player in 1999, but he has not handled himself well since then and has not behaved like a footballer should. He had illusions about Barca and was requesting to take holidays when important Champions League games were approaching. He then hides back home in Brazil. He plays for Brazil like we needed him to at Barcelona, and he has proved this in the World Cup finals, showing he reserved himself for Japan." Rivaldo joined A.C. Milan and won that season's Champions League.

ajax 2004......

he returned to Ajax as a technical director, but resigned later that year due to an internal conflict with Ronald Koeman


Bayern 2009-2011......

Van Gaal got off to a poor start as Bayern coach, winning only one of his first four matches in charge, and by November the club was on the brink of a first-round Champions League exit following two losses to Bordeaux. With Bayer Leverkusen at the top of the Bundesliga, speculation was rampant that Van Gaal was on the brink of a departure from Bayern even earlier than his predecessor Jürgen Klinsmann. Van Gaal, however, kept insisting he is a prozesstrainer meaning that his team needs time to play the way he imagines.

On 7 March 2011, Bayern Munich declared that Van Gaal's contract was to be cancelled after the end of the 2010–11 season. However, he was instead sacked on 10 April 2011 after losing the third place in the Bundesliga
doesn't make for great reading

TheDoc

IvySlayer wrote: »

Anyone else think LVGs formation is to get more money to buy some player?

Same with Rooney in midfield

I think the problem he has is that if he plays with a midfield "diamond" or whatever, and plays the likes of Herrera and Di Maria, that leaves a lot of ground for Carrick/blind to cover on the counter attack.

Herrera, Di Maria, Fellaini won't go box to box all day. But he feels Rooney can.

I think what's become transparent to me is that Van Gaal is a touch negative in his outlook. He wants to shore up to the defensive side of the team, to ensure we are not overly exposed on the counter attack, but the problem being we arn't creating chances.

I think it was perfectly displayed in the QPR game. For the first half it was pretty dire and dross, but we had the most possesion but it was having the ball for the sake of it, not really doing anything. Once or twice De Gea was called into action, but it was from thumped balls we didnt deal with.

When he reverted to 4-4-2 we started creating more and looked faster, sharper and more dangerous, but the game stretched and we also soaked a bit of pressure and QPR should have made more clearcut chances.

I think that's what he sees as the problem. Playing 4-4-2 it's end to end and there is little control over the game. 3-5-2 to him allows more control and protection to being caught on the hop, and he probably think the front/forward line will click as he continues to work with them.

To play 4-4-2 Van Gaal needs to trust the defence to cope with what comes at them, he needs to trust that the team can cope with being broken on. At the moment I don't think he does trust it.

I think Cambridge will be a good idea as to what he feels. It will most likely be a strong enough team out, and will be interesting to see if he goes 3-5-2 again or runs 4-4-2 against a team that in reality shouldn't really threaten on the break.

but I do feel his worry with 4-4-2 is that we will get banged on the break. It's what he means when he talks about balance, and that 4-4-2 doesn't provide the right balance ( imo)

grames_bond

Whatsisname wrote: »

Ballague (my phone autocorrects it to Ballbag :pac:) says Valencia have rejected a €35m offer for Otamendi from us

Been linked with Arsenal too!

TheDoc

@bangkok

Yeah that is all well known, and very selective. While that's worrying, what's not is his triumphs, his victories, his development of youth, and his place as one of the most important coaching figures in European football ( not my view, but the view shared by most in the game).

If there is a hint of talent in a youth player at the club, expect them to fully achieve it under Van Gaal.

bangkok

TheDoc wrote: »

@bangkok

Yeah that is all well known, and very selective. While that's worrying, what's not is his triumphs, his victories, his development of youth, and his place as one of the most important coaching figures in European football ( not my view, but the view shared by most in the game).

If there is a hint of talent in a youth player at the club, expect them to fully achieve it under Van Gaal.

yea, I hope so.

hopefully now our next few games we play a team that everybody wants to see. 4 at the back, di maria midfield and rooney up top, not really asking a lot

adox

Pretty sad to be posting up that article to try and further your agenda.

Blatter

Just looking there, van Gaal finished 11th with AZ Alkmaar in 07/08 but won the league by 11 points the following season. That was quite the turnaround. Similarly at Barca and Bayern he went from fairly deep lows to extreme highs. That sort of stuff would give you a lot of hope!

bangkok

adox wrote: »

Pretty sad to be posting up that article to try and further your agenda.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/cant-listen-600m-opinions---8470082

Its not just my opinion and its not an agenda, its cold hard facts.

we have been putrid this season, theres no defending it.

adox

bangkok wrote: »

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/cant-listen-600m-opinions---8470082

Its not just my opinion and its not an agenda, its cold hard facts.

we have been putrid this season, theres no defending it.

Selective facts to suit your agenda but carry on.

bangkok

adox wrote: »

Selective facts to suit your agenda but carry on.

I was at the game sat, hardcore fans were not happy......