Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Read Mod Warning in OP 7/1/15

Spazdarn

TheDoc wrote: »

Patchy defense is starting to become a statistical myth, and I think it's maybe that we keep ****ting a brick seeing our defenders one on one, or De Gea making loads of fantastic saves.

What's the latest mindphuck stat? Only recently we had conceeded one less then City who spunked their load on Mangala and have Vincent "what do you mean I'm overrated Kompany", and one more then Chelsea, who many would have you believe were Fort Knox.

As much issues as you or I may have with our defenders, I think your in barny land if you think what we have isn't good enough for top 4. I'd imagine the problem is them being flung into this weird system they arn't used to, that doesn't seem to show any benefits and as a result confidence get's knocked. The amount of 1v1 situations that develop from a hoofed ball is just mind boggling.

Jones and Smalling were struggling at 4-4-2 with Moyes too, they're just not that good.

The_Kew_Tour

TheDoc wrote: »

Patchy defense is starting to become a statistical myth, and I think it's maybe that we keep ****ting a brick seeing our defenders one on one, or De Gea making loads of fantastic saves.

What's the latest mindphuck stat? Only recently we had conceeded one less then City who spunked their load on Mangala and have Vincent "what do you mean I'm overrated Kompany", and one more then Chelsea, who many would have you believe were Fort Knox.

As much issues as you or I may have with our defenders, I think your in barny land if you think what we have isn't good enough for top 4. I'd imagine the problem is them being flung into this weird system they arn't used to, that doesn't seem to show any benefits and as a result confidence get's knocked. The amount of 1v1 situations that develop from a hoofed ball is just mind boggling.

Personally, I think our Attack or lack of movement and chances is a greater concern then our defense.

I don't think our defense is equal to City or as bad as some make out, I'm sitting somewhere in middle there.

What's more frustrating is that we should be creating 10-15 chances in every game we play with the talent we have at our disposal.

The only way we should be losing points tomorrow is if we are missing easy chances, not cause we are so disorganised (which will be most likely case like the other gasmes )

The Moldy Gowl

Any mumblings of discontent are from idiots.

The_Kew_Tour

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Giggs - Scholes - Keane - Bekham.

Our current midfield is NOT better than that. No. FECKING. WAY.

I'm talking as a whole with Midfield ONWARDS which I said.

Whatsisname

LVG saying we're not interested in buying players only selling. Moyes would have been killed for that infairness.

TheDoc

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Personally, I think our Attack or lack of movement and chances is a greater concern then our defense.

I don't think our defense is equal to City or as bad as some make out, I'm sitting somewhere in middle there.

What's more frustrating is that we should be creating 10-15 chances in every game we play with the talent we have at our disposal.

The only way we should be losing points tomorrow is if we are missing easy chances, not cause we are so disorganised (which will be most likely case like the other gasmes )

Again with you there. The defence is of no concern to me. Would I love a Hummels, of course I would? But I'm perfectly happy with Smalling,Jones, Rojo and Evans to fill two spots. Domestically anyway.

But the lack of pace, incision and decisiveness from the front six is baffling. The lack of genuine threat is baffling.

I maintain we looked our most dangerous when Blind, Herrera and Di Maria were operating in midfield with Rooney, Falcao and RVP up top. I'd only change Rooney back up front with Falcao and drop Van PErsie, and put Mata into that AMC role.

The persistence with Van Persie at this stage surely has to be damaging, he's been so poor.

The_Kew_Tour

TheDoc wrote: »

Again with you there. The defence is of no concern to me. Would I love a Hummels, of course I would? But I'm perfectly happy with Smalling,Jones, Rojo and Evans to fill two spots. Domestically anyway.

But the lack of pace, incision and decisiveness from the front six is baffling. The lack of genuine threat is baffling.

I maintain we looked our most dangerous when Blind, Herrera and Di Maria were operating in midfield with Rooney, Falcao and RVP up top. I'd only change Rooney back up front with Falcao and drop Van PErsie, and put Mata into that AMC role.

The persistence with Van Persie at this stage surely has to be damaging, he's been so poor.

Personally, I'm a big fan of RVP and think some of critisim is unwarranted, but I like see Falcao given a real chance. His runs and off ball work I think could suit us more.

TheDoc

Whatsisname wrote: »

LVG saying we're not interested in buying players only selling. Moyes would have been killed for that infairness.

I agree with him. sure a lovely 50m CB would be welcomed, but it's simply not required to meet objectives this season.

Especially if it's Dortmund. There is a real chance that Dortmund will miss out on CL next year and someone like Hummels could be acquired for a song. If they got relegated? Perish the thought, it would be a firesale.

For all the talk of Hummels, if you were him would you leave now while still being in the champions league? Or would you wait till that finishes, and see where Dortmund are end of season?

Hococop

Whatsisname wrote: »

LVG saying we're not interested in buying players only selling. Moyes would have been killed for that infairness.

I'm assuming he is keeping quite and is trying to buy some players

The Moldy Gowl

Whatsisname wrote: »

LVG saying we're not interested in buying players only selling. Moyes would have been killed for that infairness.

No manager is going to say where they are in deals or who they ave been in contact with

TheDoc

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Personally, I'm a big fan of RVP and think some of critisim is unwarranted, but I like see Falcao given a real chance. His runs and off ball work I think could suit us more.

I have personal beef that he distanced himself from the squad last year, am convinced he was probably going to be shifted out under Moyes, and have a strong feeling he feign injury last season.

Lost a fair bit of respect and love that was garnished through the previous season, by his what I interpreted as blatant unwillingness to dig the team out when they needed him.

And I think we are seeing what happens when you take the foot off the gas..you simply pickup where you left off. WC and injuries havnt helped either. While he is looking a bit fitter and has a bit more stamina, he's looked mighty impotent in front of goal.

Pro. F

Carrick out just means a straight swap for Blind at DM. I don't see how that would affect Hererra's game time.

Blind is a bit of a step down from Carrick, but it's not a huge worry imo. If we change to four at the back and play our midfielders in midfield, then I think that would have more of a positive effect than Carrick's absence has a negative one.

adox

Whatsisname wrote: »

LVG saying we're not interested in buying players only selling. Moyes would have been killed for that infairness.

Difference is Utd spent £150 million in the summer already.

I dont know why people are so shocked over the lack of January signings. Its was fairly obvious it was the most likely outcome.

Maximus Alexander

Whatsisname wrote: »

LVG saying we're not interested in buying players only selling. Moyes would have been killed for that infairness.

Moyes needed to buy then more than LVG does now.

The_Kew_Tour

TheDoc wrote: »

I have personal beef that he distanced himself from the squad last year, am convinced he was probably going to be shifted out under Moyes, and have a strong feeling he feign injury last season.

Lost a fair bit of respect and love that was garnished through the previous season, by his what I interpreted as blatant unwillingness to dig the team out when they needed him.

And I think we are seeing what happens when you take the foot off the gas..you simply pickup where you left off. WC and injuries havnt helped either. While he is looking a bit fitter and has a bit more stamina, he's looked mighty impotent in front of goal.

I have questioned myself lately on RVP and have I been easy in him in front of goal.

His work rate etc is fine this season he has put in the shifts, but his scoring chances have been disappointing.

I thought to myself "if Danny Wekbeck missed those would I let him off as easy". The honest answer is I would not.

I will stress I'm not giving up hope on RVP and don't want him sold or anything I just like see Falcao start ahead of him for meantime.

TheDoc

Pro. F wrote: »

Carrick out just means a straight swap for Blind at DM. I don't see how that would affect Hererra's game time.

Blind is a bit of a step down from Carrick, but it's not a huge worry imo. If we change to four at the back and play our midfielders in midfield, then I think that would have more of a positive effect than Carrick's absence has a negative one.

At his presser there made comments how the team needs to play faster and move the ball quickly, to disorganize the opponent. To achieve this he has changed the system.

I don't know if he was referencing the Cambridge game, or the game ahead.

adox

TheDoc wrote: »

At his presser there made comments how the team needs to play faster and move the ball quickly, to disorganize the opponent. To achieve this he has changed the system.

I don't know if he was referencing the Cambridge game, or the game ahead.

Whatever he means hes certainly right about playing faster and moving the ball quickly.

Nalz

adox wrote: »

I dont know why people are so shocked over the lack of January signings. Its was fairly obvious it was the most likely outcome.

Really that obvious? I wouldn't have been shocked if we made a signing, most likey a decent squad player that could play across the back or a centre half.

Rayne Wooney

Chelsea and City are ahead, you could argue Arsenal have a better squad and I wouldn't be surprised to see them hit form and go ahead of us if we don't sort the poor performances out.

Southampton and Spurs don't have better squads than us, Southampton are milking everything out of their players with a good formation combined with good tactics

There's no excuse for missing out on top 4 really

Spazdarn

TheDoc wrote: »

I agree with him. sure a lovely 50m CB would be welcomed, but it's simply not required to meet objectives this season.

Nonsense, we're by no means guaranteed a champions league spot as it stands and that's our objective. We're only a point ahead of Arsenal... So it very much is required.

Some of you guys are taking a lot of granted, we've only played well in like 3 or 4 games all season, and I'm being generous there

TheDoc

Trilla wrote: »

Really that obvious? I wouldn't have been shocked if we made a signing, most likey a decent squad player that could play across the back or a centre half.

Have to say I would have been shocked.

With six summer signings and then Valdes, and considering the injuries first half of season, I could maybe have seen logic that the manager feels when his squad is back fit and firing that he can use whats there to meet objectives.

Worth noting that a lot of the players lost out on training time, which means losing out time working in this new system etc. So maybe he thinks what he has will bed in fine and achieve top 4.

It looks to me like he wants to trim the deadwood or what he feels arn't up to scratch, and then make another raft of signings come summer.

TheDoc

Spazdarn wrote: »

Nonsense, we're by no means guaranteed a champions league spot as it stands and that's our objective. We're only a point ahead of Arsenal... So it very much is required.

I'm not taking it as guaranteed. I'm saying that picking two from Evans, Jones, Smalling, Jones, Rojo, Blackett and McNair should be more then sufficent to get us into the top 4.

And considering Rojo has been excellent and doing really well, it's one spot to fill. Smalling, Jones or Evans should be MORE then sufficent to gain our objectives.

A part of this is assuming we stop playing 3 centre backs. A bit part of the issue early in the season was we needed 3 centrebacks, coupled with injuries. Hopefully going forward we only need 2, from a selection of fully fit ones.

I'd stress again at no point did I say or even imply like it was a foregone conclusion. I just don't think you need a 50m CM to compliment our existing ones, to get into the top 4. What we need to do is start getting the team working and moving properly, scoring goals, and in reality our front six should carry us over the line.

A top 4 spot won't be won or lost playing Chelsea, City or Arsenal. It will be obtained by not dropping points to teams in the bottom half of the table. How do you figure Arsenal have been getting into the CL for , oh I dunno, the last six seasons with a rubbish defence.

paulbok

Mitch Connor wrote: »

So.... our defence is poor, Anderson is leaving, Fletcher is leaving, Carrick is out for a month but United feel no need to improve the options at centre back, right back or in midfield.

CLAP CLAP CLAP guys. Way to blow a CL place. Squad isn't good enough at this point and we are doing nothing to rectify the situation.

We don't make the CL again for next season and it is going to be tough in the transfer market. 1 season could be argued a blip, two seasons is a club in regression that many players won't take a risk on.

De Gea out of contract in 2016 too - don't see him renewing without CL football.

I don't agree either with the 1st half of that post, but I think you're spot on with the deGea comment. Is he waiting to see if we qualify for CL before resigning?

Mitch Connor

adox wrote: »

Difference is Utd spent £150 million in the summer already.

I dont know why people are so shocked over the lack of January signings. Its was fairly obvious it was the most likely outcome.

I'm shocked because our defence has been a shambles all season. At least a right back or a centre back was obviously needed.

If, for example, Laporte is a target, why wait til the summer? His price won't change. Pay the release fee and get him in. Why wait 6 months? why risk the rest of the season with a bunch of centre backs who have proven themselves to be incapable of staying fit or defending to a high standard consistently?

Nalz

where's Anderson going? I read below he's leaving?

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I'm shocked because our defence has been a shambles all season. At least a right back or a centre back was obviously needed.

If, for example, Laporte is a target, why wait til the summer? His price won't change. Pay the release fee and get him in. Why wait 6 months? why risk the rest of the season with a bunch of centre backs who have proven themselves to be incapable of staying fit or defending to a high standard consistently?

Exactly.

If Arsenal can do it, why can't Utd? Especially if we're selling players \ cutting back the squad simultaneously

sky88

im not worried about blind stepping in for carrick for dm, he did well before carrick came back but i am worried that hell stick with the 3 in defense still which i think just spells disaster as it just doesnt work at all for united.

Pro. F

adox wrote: »

Difference is Utd spent £150 million in the summer already.

I dont know why people are so shocked over the lack of January signings. Its was fairly obvious it was the most likely outcome.

The only thing that really surprises me is that it seems LVG has decided Valencia is his RB. He's been doing okay, but I still would have thought that an upgrade (ie a RB that can cross) would have been easy to get.

Nalz

Pro. F wrote: »

The only thing that really surprises me is that it seems LVG has decided Valencia is his RB. He's been doing okay, but I still would have thought that an upgrade (ie a RB that can cross) would have been easy to get.

an RB that can cross and cover his RCB (if we play 4-4-2 especially)

Pro. F

Trilla wrote: »

an RB that can cross and cover his RCB (if we play 4-4-2 especially)

I think Valencia has been showing he can do that in the last while. I've seen popping up in the right spot at the right time more and more often when defending. Edit: Although caveat that the opposition hasn't been so challenging.

Nalz

Pro. F wrote: »

I think Valencia has been showing he can do that in the last while. I've seen popping up in the right spot at the right time more and more often when defending.

Would fear this big time if we played 4-4-2