Reactivating previous account

Anesthetize

I recently deactivated my old account in a misjudged move which I regret doing. I'm just wondering if there is anyway of reviving it? No worries if it's not possible.

Ken.

No. If you shut it down its gone forever.

Gordon

If it's closed it can never be unclosed.

Anesthetize

Gordon wrote: »

If it's closed it can never be unclosed.

Ah ok, cheers Gordon.

P. Breathnach

If you want to maintain your identity, you can add a sig along the lines of:
_______
"The artist formerly known as ..."

Eeden

I seem to remember a poster recently was given their old name back, although obviously the post count, etc. were gone.

Spear

That's just a matter of renaming accounts. The primary piece of data that indexes accounts is the user ID number, not the username.

MadsL

Spear wrote: »

That's just a matter of renaming accounts. The primary piece of data that indexes accounts is the user ID number, not the username.

At the risk of being dumb, surely the "closed" state associated with the user ID number in the database could be reset to "active". A substantial service fee could probably be involved for disturbing the hamsters, but I don't get the technical difficulty? Again, I may be being dense.

Orion

It's not a technical issue as I understand it - it's a legal one. The DPC told boards to have an irreversible mechanism for people to close their accounts.

seamus

MadsL wrote: »

At the risk of being dumb, surely the "closed" state associated with the user ID number in the database could be reset to "active". A substantial service fee could probably be involved for disturbing the hamsters, but I don't get the technical difficulty? Again, I may be being dense.

The closed account is rendered functionally unidentifiable; no email address, etc.
So there is no procedural way for the original owner to prove ownership.

There are obviously always edge cases such as the admins personally knowing the person in question, but even then the new account will be renamed rather than reactivating the old one; Lots of other data is deleted/obfuscated too, which makes reversing the process technically possible but practically glitchy.

28064212

MadsL wrote: »

At the risk of being dumb, surely the "closed" state associated with the user ID number in the database could be reset to "active". A substantial service fee could probably be involved for disturbing the hamsters, but I don't get the technical difficulty? Again, I may be being dense.

All personally identifying information associated with the account is removed (essentially, the email address). This is a requirement of the Data Protection regulations. So Boards have no way to verify that a person returning was actually the owner of the account.

Boards.ie: Chris

MadsL wrote: »

At the risk of being dumb, surely the "closed" state associated with the user ID number in the database could be reset to "active". A substantial service fee could probably be involved for disturbing the hamsters, but I don't get the technical difficulty? Again, I may be being dense.

All this.

Orion wrote: »

It's not a technical issue as I understand it - it's a legal one. The DPC told boards to have an irreversible mechanism for people to close their accounts.

seamus wrote: »

The closed account is rendered functionally unidentifiable; no email address, etc.
So there is no procedural way for the original owner to prove ownership.

28064212 wrote: »

All personally identifying information associated with the account is removed (essentially, the email address). This is a requirement of the Data Protection regulations. So Boards have no way to verify that a person returning was actually the owner of the account.

Virtual cookies for all.

KomradeBishop

seamus wrote: »

The closed account is rendered functionally unidentifiable; no email address, etc.
So there is no procedural way for the original owner to prove ownership.

There are obviously always edge cases such as the admins personally knowing the person in question, but even then the new account will be renamed rather than reactivating the old one; Lots of other data is deleted/obfuscated too, which makes reversing the process technically possible but practically glitchy.

Closed accounts have to be tracked and identified for carrying over bans though? How does that fit in with DPC requirements?

I assume IP addresses are kept recorded alongside accounts, for this purpose, which in many ways is one of the most identifiable pieces of information (can't be used for reactivating mind, since peoples IP address is usually dynamic).

hullaballoo

KomradeBishop wrote: »

Closed accounts have to be tracked and identified for carrying over bans though? How does that fit in with DPC requirements?

I assume IP addresses are kept recorded alongside accounts, for this purpose, which in many ways is one of the most identifiable pieces of information (can't be used for reactivating mind, since peoples IP address is usually dynamic).

I could be wrong but the registration IP address is redacted when a member closes their account. Individual posts are associated with an IP address but as you correctly point out, that's almost meaningless at this time.

As for the DPC requirements, that's for the office to comment but from my reading of the DPAs, there is no obligation on the site to allow people to close their accounts. That said, that could be about to change significantly.

Orion

hullaballoo wrote: »

As for the DPC requirements, that's for the office to comment but from my reading of the DPAs, there is no obligation on the site to allow people to close their accounts. That said, that could be about to change significantly.

Would it under EU legislation - the right to be forgotten laws?

5starpool

I understand why some people would want to close an old account and essentially start again (within the rules, not to get around bans, bad behaviour, etc) but a lot of people seem to close them in a fit of pique and I'd say regret it later.

Whatever about the legal requirement for a site of this size to have the function available, it's a really annoying feature as far as I'm personally concerned.

28064212

5starpool wrote: »

I understand why some people would want to close an old account and essentially start again (within the rules, not to get around bans, bad behaviour, etc) but a lot of people seem to close them in a fit of pique and I'd say regret it later.

Whatever about the legal requirement for a site of this size to have the function available, it's a really annoying feature as far as I'm personally concerned.

I'd be more inclined to say it's annoying behaviour tbh

osarusan

If accounts are banned, does the data still have to be deleted?

Not trying to pry too much, but wondering if this is why some users who (to my eyes at least) are close to a ban will close their account instead?

hullaballoo

Orion wrote: »

Would it under EU legislation - the right to be forgotten laws?

That law is new and requires a lot of testing. I wouldn't be saying what it really requires just yet in the overall context of EU law but, to be honest, I cannot see it working out as you might expect.

Are we going to burn all of our history books and paper archives as well?

Dav

A few things:

1) I personally despise the "close account" functionality. It has had a detrimental effect to the site because before we had it, a Boards.ie account was something to be valued and held on to and looked after. Now they're throwaway. With that comes all sorts of problems - re-reg gobshtes, white-washing history, devaluation of accounts and more hassle for everyone trying to keep up with who's who. I also think that anyone who makes a tit of themselves and closes their account and starts another instead of owning it and accepting it is someone I'd be wary of - what are you trying to hide and why? The very action makes you untrustworthy in my eyes. But those are my personal feelings and not company policy or anything of the sort.

2) If accounts are banned, the owner still has the right to close it and we as the data controller have an obligation to allow that.

3) There are no automated tools that track people from closed accounts to new accounts - just good detective work by mods. We don't expose people's IP address details with the Moderation tools we have, but we do instead list them as "IP1, IP2, IP3" etc. When a comparison is done, you might see "IP1" on both accounts.

I also want to add that hullabaloo has been working with us on this too - his investigations, as he said, have lead him to believe that we may not need this functionality to remain compliant and since he's in a far better position to give qualified advice on matters of Law than anyone working here, we have been discussing this with the DPC again. More than anything else, I just wanted to give him a big thank you for the help

KomradeBishop

Dav wrote: »

...
3) There are no automated tools that track people from closed accounts to new accounts - just good detective work by mods. We don't expose people's IP address details with the Moderation tools we have, but we do instead list them as "IP1, IP2, IP3" etc. When a comparison is done, you might see "IP1" on both accounts.

Cheers for the clarification.

It would be good if something like this could be done, or a way added for newly registered users to request a linking of old accounts with new ones; not just for keeping banned posters banned, but so that reregistered posters can deliberately carry-over their bans, so they don't have run-ins with mods/admins (saves mod/admin time too).

I requested this myself with another account, for some of my bans to be carried over, but they weren't - so didn't bother asking when I closed/took-a-break and made this account - and this caused me run-ins later on.

Anesthetize

I'm a member of another forum where there is no way for a user to directly close their account. If they wish they may send a permanent ban request to a moderator who, will then confirm this with the user in the event that they change their mind. Their account will then be disabled. At any stage in the future they can send a request to a mod to lift the ban on their account and re-enable it.

Ken.

Anesthetize wrote: »

I'm a member of another forum where there is no way for a user to directly close their account. If they wish they may send a permanent ban request to a moderator who, will then confirm this with the user in the event that they change their mind. Their account will then be disabled. At any stage in the future they can send a request to a mod to lift the ban on their account and re-enable it.

You use to be able to do the same here in ye olde times. Very popular with students around exam time. If I remember correctly they put a stop to it in Boards tower cause too many were requesting it.

Slot Machine

Dav wrote: »

I also think that anyone who makes a tit of themselves and closes their account and starts another instead of owning it and accepting it is someone I'd be wary of - what are you trying to hide and why?

In real life, not everything we ever say is remembered or recorded in a way that can be easily sifted through. Peoples' views change over time, foolish remarks said in their youth are forgotten or otherwise softened by the passage of time. It's unfair to expect such circumspect from those of us (and yes, I think most of us here are of the same generation) who grew up prior the the takeoff of the internet.

It's an uncomfortable feeling, knowing a remark said in a moment of anger can be archived and accessed by anyone, anywhere for the rest of time. Because it ignores the imperfect nature of humans - people will always say things they don't mean and would prefer (and mostly are, in real life) that they be eventually forgotten.

I do understand where you're coming from, Dav, and I know there are problems with the position I adopt. I'm not sure where the happy middle lies but for now I'll still err more on the side of the individual having control over their digital footprint.

hullaballoo

Slot Machine wrote: »

In real life, not everything we ever say is remembered or recorded in a way that can be easily sifted through. Peoples' views change over time, foolish remarks said in their youth are forgotten or otherwise softened by the passage of time. It's unfair to expect such circumspect from those of us (and yes, I think most of us here are of the same generation) who grew up prior the the takeoff of the internet.

It's an uncomfortable feeling, knowing a remark said in a moment of anger can be archived and accessed by anyone, anywhere for the rest of time. Because it ignores the imperfect nature of humans - people will always say things they don't mean and would prefer (and mostly are, in real life) that they be eventually forgotten.

I do understand where you're coming from, Dav, and I know there are problems with the position I adopt. I'm not sure where the happy middle lies but for now I'll still err more on the side of the individual having control over their digital footprint.

If there is something particularly embarrassing or endangering, it can be removed by ways and means.

But the argument that real life isn't recorded in this way is now redundant as we have seen over the past few years.

People have to wake up from a very early age now and realise that what they put on the internet will be there forever. I can't say I always thought about that when I first started posting on-line but I'll stand over the fact that I did and said some stupid things in the past and committed them to permanent record voluntarily. I'm not going to seek to oblige someone else to take responsibility for what I did when I was young.

I don't think it's fair/right/acceptable for anyone to expect other people to take responsibility, often at potentially massively disproportionate cost because they posted something silly ten years ago and now the bullies in work have found it.

This whole regime of forcing sites to remove content they didn't put there in the first place is 21st century blame-shifting at its finest.

Dav

They have complete control of their digital footprint though, no one is forced to post anything to the internet.

I made a whole heap of extraordinarily stupid statements here on this site in my 20s - things I have now taken a 180 degree u-turn on with the benefit of wisdom and experience. I'm not afraid of my past being put in my face - I will simply reply with the truth - I was a fking idiot and I no longer think that way about that topic They still hired me too!

What's the issue with admitting you were wrong? What's the issue with showing that you're actually smart enough to apply some critical thinking and realise that you'd previously come to what you now deem an incorrect conclusion on any given subject? It is not a weakness to say "I was wrong" but it is a frightening prospect to say "that never happened" and to cover it up.

We're here to have discussions, not win fights. You take part in a discussion and if you've previously been on another side of a talking point, then your opinion has more value and weight because you've clearly given it more thought than most.

And by the way, I have friends with practically photographic memories, so even the real world can have this problem

5starpool

If I posted something (and I'm sure I did) many years ago and someone posted to it and said what a dick I was for it I'd have no problem holding my hands up and saying 'oops sorry' if it was warranted. There are more times than I'd care to remember where metaphorical steam was coming out my ears typing something that in hindsight was petty and childish. I'm sure it even happens now and I'm far from a child in terms of age (mentality and behaviour is a different matter though).

If the review of the account closure feature here ends up with it being removed I'll personally see it as a positive thing anyhow.

Penn

There's also the fact that some people might have put personal info up which then makes them identifiable or that they wouldn't want people they know to find. Big difference between "holding your hands up" or admitting you were wrong etc, and wanting to keep personal history where it belongs; in the past.

I'm just saying, not everyone who closes accounts is somehow trying to hide something or shy away from opinions they posted years ago; there are many valid reasons why someone would want to simply leave that part of their life behind.

5starpool

Penn wrote: »

There's also the fact that some people might have put personal info up which then makes them identifiable or that they wouldn't want people they know to find. Big difference between "holding your hands up" or admitting you were wrong etc, and wanting to keep personal history where it belongs; in the past.

I'm just saying, not everyone who closes accounts is somehow trying to hide something or shy away from opinions they posted years ago; there are many valid reasons why someone would want to simply leave that part of their life behind.

There are absolutely valid reasons for wanting to leave an account history behind such as the above, but 90% of the time these are not the reasons people do this in my opinion.