Major issue with eBay and expensive item

ArthurGuinness

Hi all, thanks in advance for your help. I recently sold a Gibson Les Paul Custom guitar on eBay.co.uk (I use the UK site to widen the audience of potential buyers). I got £1799.00 for the guitar - about €2,200 and after I had paid eBay fees, Pay Pal fees and shipping which I included in the sale price I ended up with about €1650.

I have sold many similar items on eBay, and I have never had an issue until now. I got an email from the buyer claiming the item was not as described (which it was). He also made several claims that the instrument had been refinished; the neck broken and repaired as well as other issues and claims all of which are unsubstantiated and fake.

He reported it to eBay under the buyer protection programme, and I received an email stating that I was to refund the buyer and pay for the shipping so it could be returned to me.

The email stated that the claim had been thoroughly investigated and on this occasion eBay was siding with the buyer.

My first issue is this: In the email eBay sent in relation to the claim they stated that the matter had been "thoroughly investigated. "

The correspondence read: Dear Danny ( NOT MY NAME) We have thoroughly investigated the claim in relation to the MOBILE PHONE ITEM that you sold to ...... recently.

I received two emails stating this. Surely if this was investigated as they claim a) They would get my name correct and b) the type of item.

I emailed them back and explained that I would not accept a return for this item for two reasons. The first being the claims the buyer was making were entirely untrue as was evident from the pictures I had listed with the item (all HD with zoom function enabled). Secondly I received photos sent by the buyer to me showing the instrument in a state of disrepair including all the electronics, strings, bridge, etc. having been removed. The photos also showed some minor damage that was not there before shipping. I received no response from eBay until today.

This afternoon I got a phone call from a gentleman named Kolo, who said he was calling from Dublin,. He said he investigated the case himself and that I must update my shipping address on eBay and accept the return or "things will get messy, and you don't want that."

I asked him to expand on this, and he said: "The buyer will keep the guitar and we (eBay) will come after you for the money and you really don't want that. "

I brought up the issue about this so-called investigation and asked what had actually been done. I asked if he had looked at the photos of the guitar that had been sent to me via the eBay messaging system and he said no he had not.

I then asked what claim was being made against the item that I sold, and he said that it was not as described. I asked what investigation had then taken place, and he refused to answer.

I then asked if I was supposed to accept an instrument and pay for it's return to me despite the fact that I have received images showing it in a state of disrepair, and he simply said yes.

I asked to speak with a supervisor, and I was told no. I also asked for a phone number to call eBay directly, I was also told no. I then asked for an email transcript or a recording of our conversation at which point he hung up on me.

About ten minutes after he had hung up the phone on me I received and email stating that the money had been refunded to the buyer and that I was now liable and that I was to pay ebay immediately.

I have received bad feedback on eBay, but I can not respond to this feedback or leave any on the buyer's profile.

My question is should I just accept the return (although I now do not think it is possible) despite knowing it won't arrive in the same condition.

Should I just accept that I will be out of pocket through no fault of my own?

Should I stand my ground on this. If I do will eBay bring me to court as threatened?

I am sure I probably agreed to this in some small print that I accepted somewhere along the line but despite this I still think I am unfairly treated.

I am an honest seller who had 100% feedback up until this issue. The buyer did not have 100% feedback. I am also a frequent seller on adverts.ie where my standing is also 100%

Any advice?

CB19Kevo

All i can advise is keep records of everything,Emails,photos,record phone calls and get names of anyone who contacts you.
I would call there bluff,Looks like they have not investigated at all.
How much positive ebay feedback have you?

gingernut79

This doesnt seem right at all. Can you be sure you were definitely speaking to someone from ebay on the phone? Would the buyer have access to your phone number?

ballyharpat

You're being scammed, go to Ebay website and read the rules re refunding etc. It would take 30 days anyway and I believe it would be Paypal contacting you, if that had been the method of payment.

ArthurGuinness

Ive been onto eBay for the last two hours now being bounced from pillar to post. My account has been frozen until I pay them €2,448.57. They say they have reimbursed the buyer and I must now pay them. I am going to have a rather large phone bill as well as only working phone number I could find was UK based.

LionelNashe

You can ask them in writing for a recording of the phone call, and any other data that they hold about you. They can charge €6.35, and they can take up to 21 days (I think) to provide the info, but they have to provide it according to the data protection act.

Tearin It Up

That doesn't seem right at, sounds fishy.

Where did the email come from letting you know about refunding the buyer? Was it eBay or PayPal.

All I know is that I got a partial refund last week from a seller and the email came from PayPal to let me know. Not eBay.

Are there any details in your PayPal account about the refund.



As another poster mentioned, could the buyer have access to your phone number.

As a buyer myself, I went through the transaction details on PayPal and some of them has the business contact details including phone numbers.

So buyers do have access to phone numbers.

Tearin It Up

ArthurGuinness wrote: »

Ive been onto eBay for the last two hours now being bounced from pillar to post. My account has been frozen until I pay them €2,448.57. They say they have reimbursed the buyer and I must now pay them. I am going to have a rather large phone bill as well as only working phone number I could find was UK based.

Nasty

ballyharpat

Did the buyer contact you before you heard from Ebay?

I had a similar problem, I stopped Paypal through my bank, from having any access to my funds, they claimed it was due to a tax not paid and were looking for close to 1k, I rode it out, but gave them nothing, eventually they gave up-don't worry about losing this account with Ebay, it means nothing anymore for the seller, the buyer has way more rights, turned me off using ebay completely, they always side with the buyer...

9de5q7tsr8u2im

Feel really bad for you OP, its a site i would stay off of.
I've been reading many blogs etc about the risks of selling high priced items on ebay and also paypals dispute process etc.
The worst scenario that could happen to you OP which i would hate to say this and i do feel sympathy for you is:
You end up getting the guitar back but a different type and the buyer gets to keep both his money and your guitar
or else
You get your original guitar back without any damage incurred to it hopefully this is the aftermath
best of luck

ArthurGuinness

The call I received was on my home land line number, the original number I used to set up my ebay account many moons ago. The buyer has my mobile number I always give it to buyers incase they have an issue, I spoke to him about it but can now not get hold of him. Still on to eBay they are basically saying tough ****. You need to pay us.

Luke92

PayPal have about as much power as little woods in Ireland. Very little. If they do pursue the money and take you to court, just make sure to keep all necessary documents and take down call times and durations.

If what has happened is true then there is no way a court could side with PayPal.

Have a friend that works in the collections department (UK section). But he would still know how they go about getting money in Ireland. I'll ask him and let you know.

ArthurGuinness

Ive just been told by eBay that apparently my address doesn't exist because its not on Google maps.

JohnBee

Feel for you bro. But it does sound like you have very much been scammed. I would dispense with calling ebay and instead do everything by email instead. That way you have a record of everything.

Also, have a read through the ebay terms and conditions and check their own appeals processes.

ArthurGuinness

I recorded the phone calls. Apparently I can no longer appeal it. It's a case of shut up and pay up. I have to pay €248 final value sales fee and £1799 to them for refund. They said they will request the buyer to send the guitar back but its up to him to do so. He now has the guitar and the money he paid for it and I'm up **** creek. So far I haven't heard anything from Pay Pal.

JohnBee

PS are you certain from the pictures the buyer sent that the item is the same? It is a well known scam for someone to buy an item and then send photos of the supposed delivered item which is in poor shape or broken. It turns out that this is not the item sent but another they bought cheaply to scam a refund. Scrutinize the photos in detail for anything that might indicate the photos they sent you are not actually the item you sent.

G2ECE

Sit tight and see what happens, I suspect that they will drop it.

FobleAsNuck

something similar happened to me, however I wasn't selling stuff on Ebay but rather had some webdev work done for bloke overseas. I was being paid every two weeks, roughly $2000. after 4 (of 6) payments customer stopped answering emails and few weeks later filled a dispute for non delivered item. as our written and signed contract outlined - we had no payment/no work clause yet the muppets at PayPal were siding with the scammer. I withdrew money from my PP account, after few weeks they "took" the last payment and left me with -$2000 with I refused to pay, so my accounbt was frozen. it was few years ago, and I haven't looked back since.

lesson learned - never do serious transactions over PP, they screw you over always siding with the buyer

Luke92

I have actually been told by my friend who works in PayPal its very very easy to scam them and sellers! (You pay for real Rolex, get identical fake Rolex and send them pictures and an affidavit from reputable source saying Rolex is fake. They refund you money for Rolex and you send the fake one back leaving the seller out of pocket for thousands). Like unbelievably easy to leave someone out of pocket for thousands.

They really need to sort this out before people start abandoning eBay. My friend just said to not pay a cent and if they take you to court, that with the evidence you have then it should be no problem for you. And he said that's a very big IF they take you to court.

Its a billion dollar company. They take losses all the time so you just have to wait and see.

ArthurGuinness

Thanks for all your help folks. Unfortunately no joy after over 3 hours on the phone. My Pay Pal account is now showing minus €2458.00.
I'm not going to pay it and will fight it tooth and nail if I have to.

Listened back to the phone call, and I asked why I have to pay final value selling fees on top of the refund amount if the item has not been successfully sold. Conversation went roughly as follows:

Ebay: The item was successfully sold.

Me: No it wasn't if its being returned.

Ebay: The item was faulty... it was damaged.

Me: The pictures clearly show no damage on the guitar I can supply original images with metadata etc.

Ebay: We don't require any pictures for our investigations.

Me: So what investigation actually took place?

SILENCE FOR A FEW MOMENTS WITH TYPING IN THE BACKGROUND

Me again: I have asked several people today what investigation took place into claims that the item was faulty.

Ebay: We take the buyer at their word.

Me: So no investigation has taken place is what you are saying and I am out of pocket more than I received for the item and have no item back.

Ebay: " eBay is a big company Adam and we have our policies, when you have your own big company you can make your own policies but for now we are following ours."

ArthurGuinness

Thanks man, appreciate you asking him.

unklerosco

This happened to me a few years ago, got scammed buy a buyer.. paypal issued a refund and told me I owed them the money. I setup a new paypal account and that was that.. Never gave them a penny. The scammers can scam paypal, they aint scamming me.

Hollister11

I wouldn't pay it. Especially when there trying to **** you over. Leave you out of pocket!!! It's great how much they value the sellers who make them money.

Tearin It Up

Are you getting your guitar back?

bluemartin

I think first thing you should do is close down your paypal account so they dont try and take the funds involuntary from your account. It sounds like you have been scammed, I would fight my case here. It's true what another poster said, ebay sides witht he buyer. I only use ebay to sell small items, I wouldnt touch them to sell big items of high monatary value.

ArthurGuinness

Tearin It Up wrote: »

Are you getting your guitar back?

They said that they would try to contact the buyer and will send him a post him a shipping label but that's all they can do, it's up to him to send it, no guarantees. I don't think they know what they are doing to be honest, like I said they told me my address wasn't real because they couldn't find it on Google maps.

ArthurGuinness

bluemartin wrote: »

I think first thing you should do is close down your paypal account so they dont try and take the funds involuntary from your account. It sounds like you have been scammed, I would fight my case here. It's true what another poster said, ebay sides witht he buyer. I only use ebay to sell small items, I wouldnt touch them to sell big items of high monatary value.

I can't shut it down when it's in arrears. I cancelled the debit card that's linked to it though.

JohnBee

Again Arthur, did you scrutinize the pictures? The scam is pointless if it was your guitar that he sent pictures of broken up, that way essentially he gets a refund but a worthless broken guitar. It is highly possible the pictures sent are not your guitar. Make sure you scrutinize for differences as that is the classic ebay scam.

ballyharpat

Bunch of tossers, I've sent Paypal an email stating what is happening their company, I use them for small payments, but not for sales, I'd rather sell local at a lower price than deal with their incompetence.....

I hope it works out for you......

Tearin It Up

ArthurGuinness wrote: »

They said that they would try to contact the buyer and will send him a post him a shipping label but that's all they can do, it's up to him to send it, no guarantees. I don't think they know what they are doing to be honest, like I said they told me my address wasn't real because they couldn't find it on Google maps.

Hope you get back in one piece.

alan partridge aha

Didn't realise Ebay were as bad as this. Best of luck OP, hope it all works out ok.

BostonB

Seems a very poor system if its allows people to be scammed so easily.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/money-saving-tips/11127669/My-eBay-buyer-protection-nightmare.html

I would do the same, cancel the cards and let them chase it.

8_Ace

Prepare yourself for a bad ending on this, the buyer is pulling a fast one, there's no chance of a return. Cutting off Ebay / Paypal is the best you can do.

Ebay have already shown you the extent of their customer service /support. This is a real sickner.

spurious

Haven't both eBay and PayPal offices in Dublin? I'd be getting a solicitor onto them pronto and simultaneously contacting thejournal and similar sites.

bluemartin

ArthurGuinness wrote: »

I can't shut it down when it's in arrears. I cancelled the debit card that's linked to it though.

That is good, I had the misfortune of dealing with ebay once, I can tell you it was a living nightmare pushed from pillar to post, there is absolutely no direct line to speak to an appropriate person, they make it as difficult as hell for the sellers. Good luck OP, fight your case with them and I am glad you have your money. The whole ordeal must have been very stressful for you particularly when such a large sum of money involved.

flutered

i had two similar experiences, you have one chance which is your carrier/curiour, you have paid them to deliver safely an item of value, this would have adeclared va;lue and insured to that value, contact them and explain that the recipent is not happy.

kev1986

same thing happened to me but for far less money a couple of years ago so i packed in using ebay. Another thing that happened to me as well twice was id sell an item as described the buyer would receive the item upon receiving the item they would then mail me saying the item was not as described and if i didnt send another item similar they would report me and give me bad reviews.
on both occasions told them they could have a refund but never heard anything back very strange

Pipmae

This thread is an eye opener. I use eBay/Paypal for low monetary value goods and I only buy, not sell. It's a total disgrace if this scammer gets away with it.

Best of luck OP - I really hope it works out for you.

dubscottie

Are you 100% sure you have been talking to Ebay and the e-mails you have got are from them?

Reading your posts my alarm bells are ringing..

They contacted you on your landline? It sounds daft but there is a new level of bank scams (the ones when you think you hang up to call your bank, but really are still connected but talking to someone different claiming to be your bank). Cant pull that scam to a mobile number..

You said you were on the phone for 2 hours?? Was it one call or many? Why could you only find a UK number? Was it to the same person? No company would keep you on the phone for 2 hours.. They would take your number and call you back.

It is so easy to fake sites and links etc.. What was the email address that messages came from??

Maybe its just me.. Check the "ebay" and "paypal" sites you looked at..

Also they should give an item number.. Not "the mobile item" as you said in the OP..

degsie

CB19Kevo wrote: »

All i can advise is keep records of everything,Emails,photos,record phone calls and get names of anyone who contacts you.
I would call there bluff,Looks like they have not investigated at all.
How much positive ebay feedback have you?

A photo of the item prior to shipping would help.

dubscottie

degsie wrote: »

A photo of the item prior to shipping would help.

+1 on that..

Sold something on Ebay myself that was expensive enough.. Went all bells and whistles on the postage..

Had pics to had however to show the condition right before it was posted should they say otherwise..

Never heard back from the buyer so presume all was well.

flutered

it does not matter one whit, the bay of thieves come down on the side of the buyer, as without buyers it would not exist.

ArthurGuinness

JohnBee wrote: »

Again Arthur, did you scrutinize the pictures? The scam is pointless if it was your guitar that he sent pictures of broken up, that way essentially he gets a refund but a worthless broken guitar. It is highly possible the pictures sent are not your guitar. Make sure you scrutinize for differences as that is the classic ebay scam.

It's hard to tell all the pictures are very close up and taken with a bright flash. The color is correct but I cant tell you much more. I requested further but none arrived.

ArthurGuinness

dubscottie wrote: »

Are you 100% sure you have been talking to Ebay and the e-mails you have got are from them?

Reading your posts my alarm bells are ringing..

They contacted you on your landline? It sounds daft but there is a new level of bank scams (the ones when you think you hang up to call your bank, but really are still connected but talking to someone different claiming to be your bank). Cant pull that scam to a mobile number..

You said you were on the phone for 2 hours?? Was it one call or many? Why could you only find a UK number? Was it to the same person? No company would keep you on the phone for 2 hours.. They would take your number and call you back.

It is so easy to fake sites and links etc.. What was the email address that messages came from??

Maybe its just me.. Check the "ebay" and "paypal" sites you looked at..

Also they should give an item number.. Not "the mobile item" as you said in the OP..

Hi Dubscottie.

Yes I am certain I was talking to eBay directly, all correspondence came through the messenger interface accessible through the my eBay platform.

I searched every section of the Contact Us pages on the website and its a nightmare. You have to go through a list of problems, click on the link that best suits your scenario and you are then advised to contact them by email or live chat depending on the issue. They say they are contactable by phone but I was never given the option.
I clicked on all troubleshooting issues and found no option to phone them.

I contacted them through Live Chat and asked for a phone number and I was directed back to the same page.

I tried calling Pay Pal in Dublin but couldn't access them unless a logged a fault via my Pay Pal page where they sent me a code via email to input into the phone when I rang them - which I did. When I got through to an actual human person they told me they couldn't help me that there was no direct line number in Dublin unless I went through a similar process via the Contact Us section on the eBay website.

I called a few Irish numbers listed as eBay lines but none worked.

I finally tracked down a number in the UK, called it and was asked for a code as with Pay Pal didn't have one so just bashed in random numbers until it gave me another option. Next option was to enter your postcode into an automated system, same thing - based away nine or ten times until another truck load of options was presented. After twenty minutes of pressing 1 for this two for that I made it trough to the call centre in Manilla.

I told the same story to 3 different people who put me on hold five or six times while they went to consult different people. I began recording the call when I got through to a person, when I hung up the record time was 1hour 55 minutes not including the 20 - 25 minutes I spent trying to get through to them.

I'm dealing with the real deal here I'm afraid. I have been using eBay since 2008 and I am very vigilant. The item number was listed else where in the email.

ArthurGuinness

degsie wrote: »

A photo of the item prior to shipping would help.

I took photos of it just before putting it into the box, and when it was in the box etc. Offered this to ebay, they had no interest.

KomradeBishop

Ya if all this is accurate, this is incredibly screwed up behaviour from ebay, and perhaps it might be something that news websites would be interested in airing.

There is a semi-popular tech website that I read a lot, Pando Daily (semi-popular among the average reader, but highly popular among tech industry), which 'maybe' would be interested in airing this - but it's a small and very busy site, so maybe not - worth sending an email anyway, as they really like airing critical articles on Ebay (because of its founder, Pierre Omidyar), so maybe right up their alley: info@pandodaily.com

It'd be a very small/tiny news story compared to what they normally write about, but can't hurt to send an email.

GarIT

You said you had recordings of the phonecalls, post them on YouTube, it could get some attention.

*Check the legality of that first.

bluemartin

ArthurGuinness wrote: »

Hi Dubscottie.

Yes I am certain I was talking to eBay directly, all correspondence came through the messenger interface accessible through the my eBay platform.

I searched every section of the Contact Us pages on the website and its a nightmare. You have to go through a list of problems, click on the link that best suits your scenario and you are then advised to contact them by email or live chat depending on the issue. They say they are contactable by phone but I was never given the option.
I clicked on all troubleshooting issues and found no option to phone them.

I contacted them through Live Chat and asked for a phone number and I was directed back to the same page.

I tried calling Pay Pal in Dublin but couldn't access them unless a logged a fault via my Pay Pal page where they sent me a code via email to input into the phone when I rang them - which I did. When I got through to an actual human person they told me they couldn't help me that there was no direct line number in Dublin unless I went through a similar process via the Contact Us section on the eBay website.

I called a few Irish numbers listed as eBay lines but none worked.

I finally tracked down a number in the UK, called it and was asked for a code as with Pay Pal didn't have one so just bashed in random numbers until it gave me another option. Next option was to enter your postcode into an automated system, same thing - based away nine or ten times until another truck load of options was presented. After twenty minutes of pressing 1 for this two for that I made it trough to the call centre in Manilla.

I told the same story to 3 different people who put me on hold five or six times while they went to consult different people. I began recording the call when I got through to a person, when I hung up the record time was 1hour 55 minutes not including the 20 - 25 minutes I spent trying to get through to them.

I'm dealing with the real deal here I'm afraid. I have been using eBay since 2008 and I am very vigilant. The item number was listed else where in the email.

An astonishing and articulate description of Ebay customer service, absolutely appaling, it's enough to scare anyone away from using their service.

ShortyGotLow

Been using ebay on and off for the last few years and never had any trouble so far (touch wood), but this thread is really opening my eyes to what type of company they are. I'd be extra cautious dealing with them again in the future. I find Amazon's customer service incredible so try to use them more these days.

wmpdd3

OP looks like the eBay system is wide open to abuse.

What's doing me and a friend doing three sales /disputes a week like this and getting 6k from PayPal?

This makes aliexpress look good.

Is be very tempted to put this out in the public domain.

10-10-20

Very concerning practice.
I'm watching the outcome of this as it will affect my use of the site.