$400 PC console killer

Dcully

Thought this might help people looking for a cheap build.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KUpRXRGVHU

vibe666

that's actually very useful. i tend to throw every penny i've got to get the best i can in a system, but i've been asked by quite a few people for help with a low budget rigs and never really know what's going on with the lower end of the market so i've not been able to give much of that kind of advise. i hadn't realised you could get "console killing" performance out of such a low budget.

Grumpypants

The most important piece of advice is to not cheap out. Spending the extra few hundred euro is worth it in the long run.

If you have $400 to spend get a ps4 it is the best value to performance ratio on the market. If you want to build a pc save up and do it right, get a base rig for about €800-1500 then add to it as you go. Then you will notice the difference.

I'm sick of these dumb budget pc videos, great now you have a $400 pc , start it up time to play some games? Kind of hard without Windows, a keyboard, a mouse, a controller, monitor and speakers. So now this $400 pc is getting closer to $700 and it still runs games at a lower setting than a ps4.

Dcully

Grumpypants wrote: »

The most important piece of advice is to not cheap out. Spending the extra few hundred euro is worth it in the long run.

If you have $400 to spend get a ps4 it is the best value to performance ratio on the market. If you want to build a pc save up and do it right, get a base rig for about €800-1500 then add to it as you go. Then you will notice the difference.

I'm sick of these dumb budget pc videos, great now you have a $400 pc , start it up time to play some games? Kind of hard without Windows, a keyboard, a mouse, a controller, monitor and speakers. So now this $400 pc is getting closer to $700 and it still runs games at a lower setting than a ps4.

Did you even watch the video or just label it with "I'm sick of these dumb budget pc videos" and not bother?
Windows can be got for €16,everything else you mentioned is not essential.
My son started out with just a bare bones pc and a pad plus a €4 mouse to click on game launchers, pc connected to his tv via hdmi hence making everything you mentioned not completely essential.
If tek syndicate say that spec will outperform any console i tend to believe them,theres too many so called experts out there but these guys know there stuff and are widely regarded as one of the most knowledgeable out there.

Ofcourse you are 100% correct about not cheaping out but im pretty sure there are plenty who want to just sample PC gaming before investing too much and this is a great way of doing so and is exactly what i done for my young lad and he enjoyed 3 years of pc gaming before all his friends got an xbox.
In the end he decided to stick with his mates on xbox as his main gaming platform though :P

TerrorFirmer

Grumpypants wrote: »

The most important piece of advice is to not cheap out. Spending the extra few hundred euro is worth it in the long run.

If you have $400 to spend get a ps4 it is the best value to performance ratio on the market. If you want to build a pc save up and do it right, get a base rig for about €800-1500 then add to it as you go. Then you will notice the difference.

I'm sick of these dumb budget pc videos, great now you have a $400 pc , start it up time to play some games? Kind of hard without Windows, a keyboard, a mouse, a controller, monitor and speakers. So now this $400 pc is getting closer to $700 and it still runs games at a lower setting than a ps4.

Sorry but to be frank you haven't a clue what you're talking about. 800-1500 then add to it as you go? a 700 euro PC performing lower than a PS4?

TheDoc

Grumpypants wrote: »

The most important piece of advice is to not cheap out. Spending the extra few hundred euro is worth it in the long run.

If you have $400 to spend get a ps4 it is the best value to performance ratio on the market. If you want to build a pc save up and do it right, get a base rig for about €800-1500 then add to it as you go. Then you will notice the difference.

I'm sick of these dumb budget pc videos, great now you have a $400 pc , start it up time to play some games? Kind of hard without Windows, a keyboard, a mouse, a controller, monitor and speakers. So now this $400 pc is getting closer to $700 and it still runs games at a lower setting than a ps4.

As others say, massively wide of the margin.

I bought a complete rig from overclockers.co.uk about five maybe six years ago for €450 all in. I had the money to spare and my old machine was flagging. It lasted me a good 2 years before I started tinkering.

That's buying a rig assembled, warranty and delivered. Granted at the time the focus was WoW and CS1.6 but still it did what I needed it to do.

Low entry PC's are highly desireable. As mentioned above I have a good few friends humming and haughing about getting a PC, but always assumed you need to put 1500-2000 into them. When in reality thats totally overkill for pretty much anything gaming related imo.

What attracts people to PC gaming is the cheap game prices, the longevity of the games and the multipurpose use.

The sort of machine above is the perfect entry level. Not to mention maybe getting away with some modern games, you have literally an outragous catalogue of games on a platform like Steam, going for pennies.

A good Benq monitor costs €129

You can get a mouse,keyboard and a decent headset for about €100 all in, then get fancier as time goes on.

The whole point of PC's is the expandability.

What I'm sick off, is newcomer PC gamers receiving build advice of "HAVING" to drop in excess of €1000 and being fed lies of "you need this to play latest games" when infact you can play modern games fine with builds of between €400-600.

The benefit being you can then just add new parts and pieces as you go on.

At the moment I'm pricing up a new mobo and CPU, and probably a GPU around april time. (was going to get all three but will go cpu and mobo for now) But that's the beauty, you can do it piece by piece.

mayordenis

I'll go as far as saying that the 2 year old 600 euro-ish build I'm using right now is still able to outperform the newest gen of consoles, I'd love to have 600 quid for a new build now, there's great value out there, if you could mangle that £135 R9 280 into the build you'd have a beastly machine for the money.

.Kevin.

That's a pretty sweet rig. I paid 700 quid on a horrible all in one pc and regret it

Grumpypants

Dcully wrote: »

Did you even watch the video or just label it with "I'm sick of these dumb budget pc videos" and not bother?
Windows can be got for €16,everything else you mentioned is not essential.
My son started out with just a bare bones pc and a pad plus a €4 mouse to click on game launchers, pc connected to his tv via hdmi hence making everything you mentioned not completely essential.
If tek syndicate say that spec will outperform any console i tend to believe them,theres too many so called experts out there but these guys know there stuff and are widely regarded as one of the most knowledgeable out there.

Ofcourse you are 100% correct about not cheaping out but im pretty sure there are plenty who want to just sample PC gaming before investing too much and this is a great way of doing so and is exactly what i done for my young lad and he enjoyed 3 years of pc gaming before all his friends got an xbox.
In the end he decided to stick with his mates on xbox as his main gaming platform though :P

I did watch it, what I want from these videos is that they are honest. He built a PC that is not as good as a PS4 and costs more than a PS4, and claims it is a console killer.

What he builds is a very basic budget PC that will run some basic games at low settings.

Lets look at it.

In his words that PC will run games at 720p (PS4 runs at 1080p) So a lower graphical output.
He puts in a cheaper 320GB hard drive when a PS4 has 500GB. So less storage.
He then fails to include a controller, (You say the rest is not essential, I think a keyboard and mouse for PC gaming is kind of important but for the sake of comparison lets only include the controller) Now the most common one is the 360 for windows controller wireless is about $40.
Then lets say you can get 64bit windows for $20. (It is closer to $100 on Amazon but lets stick with your price anyway)
That is still $60 he left out with just those two items, so now his PC is already $460 not $400.

If you do want a mouse and keyboard, headset then you are getting very close to $500 and that is using bargain bucket items. No console comes with bargain bucket items.

I built a PC that is a decent rig that will out perform a console. It is a i5 2500K, 8GB Ram, R9 290, 600W PSU and a decent motherboard, with 3 X 22 Inch monitors, Corsair Vengeance K70, Roccat Kova+ mouse, Sony wireless headphones & a wireless 360 controller and a decent speaker system.

It was not $400.

TerrorFirmer

The GTX750Ti - and that machine - can run Battlefield 4, Shadow of Mordor, Advanced Warfare Alien Isolation, etc at 1080p high settings. Not sure where you're getting 'basic games at low settings' from but it's total nonsense. It would be visually on-par with the PS4.

He then fails to include a controller, (You say the rest is not essential, I think a keyboard and mouse for PC gaming is kind of important but for the sake of comparison lets only include the controller) Now the most common one is the 360 for windows controller wireless is about $40.

A controller is ideal for some but by no means essential for a Gaming PC.

Also no need for over-priced keyboards and mice. I use a €20 mouse and a €15 euro keyboard myself with no issues, my back-up is a €6 Zalman M200 mouse and that's also fine for me. I don't bother with a headset personally but if you're implying that the Xbox/PS4 headsets bundled are some sort of premium product....

And if you really want to grumble about the necessity of a controller, you'll save all the money back in your first game purchase or too anyway. Call of Duty Advanced Warfare, Alien Isolation, Shadow of Mordor, etc were all about €15 over the Christmas period on PC - what are they on console?

mayordenis

Grumpypants wrote: »

I did watch it, what I want from these videos is that they are honest. He built a PC that is not as good as a PS4 and costs more than a PS4, and claims it is a console killer.

What he builds is a very basic budget PC that will run some basic games at low settings.

Lets look at it.

In his words that PC will run games at 720p (PS4 runs at 1080p) So a lower graphical output.
He puts in a cheaper 320GB hard drive when a PS4 has 500GB. So less storage.
He then fails to include a controller, (You say the rest is not essential, I think a keyboard and mouse for PC gaming is kind of important but for the sake of comparison lets only include the controller) Now the most common one is the 360 for windows controller wireless is about $40.
Then lets say you can get 64bit windows for $20. (It is closer to $100 on Amazon but lets stick with your price anyway)
That is still $60 he left out with just those two items, so now his PC is already $460 not $400.

If you do want a mouse and keyboard, headset then you are getting very close to $500 and that is using bargain bucket items. No console comes with bargain bucket items.

I built a PC that is a decent rig that will out perform a console. It is a i5 2500K, 8GB Ram, R9 290, 600W PSU and a decent motherboard, with 3 X 22 Inch monitors, Corsair Vengeance K70, Roccat Kova+ mouse, Sony wireless headphones & a wireless 360 controller and a decent speaker system.

It was not $400.

I think you're looking at it too black and white in that it'll probably play everything on 720p at the highest settings basically that PC would play plenty at 1080p.

You also seem to forget that you don't need a headset, if you want to compare it to consoles then why wouldn't you just use the speakers in the TV, that's what the console will be doing.

like throwing in the Roccat Kova, the corsair mechanical keyboard and a sony wireless headset are all complete superfluous.

I only upgraded my mouse after 2 solid years with a 20 quid mouse and currently I'm regretting the 'upgrade', being attached to big gaming brands like roccat and razer isn't always a good idea.

Again a 10-15 euro keyboard is more than enough for most, yes you or I might have a mechanical keyboard, it however is not necessary.

Out of the box the PC in the video will play games as good or better than any console, but will do a whole host of other things comfortably better too. (of course a keyboard and mouse are necessary so you can add on 50 for them if you want)

Hibernosaur

I recently bought a brand new, custom built gaming PC with 16GB RAM, an Intel i5, 1TB HDD and a 2 Gig Nvidia GTX 750 Ti. This can run anything a next gen console can and on higher settings. 550 Euros.

TerrorFirmer

Hibernosaur wrote: »

A Brand new, custom built gamin PC with and Intel i5 with 16GB RAM, 1TB HDD, 2 Gig Nvidia GTX 750 Ti. This can run anything a next gen console can and on higher settings. 550 Euros.

That's totally unbalanced though. An i3-4160 with 8GB of RAM and an r9 280 would kill that PC in games and cost less.

Hibernosaur

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

That's totally unbalanced though. An i3-4160 with 8GB of RAM and an r9 280 would kill that PC in games and cost less.

I use if for other things too so need the processor and the Ram. You say it's unbalanced but I am enjoying an immensely satisfying PC that kills Alien Isolation, Elite Dangerous, Shadow of Morder etc on ultra.

TerrorFirmer

Well that's different, but I was only pointing our that if you wanted a 'console killing' Gaming PC at an affordable price, those spec's are unbalanced in that you could get a much faster gaming machine for the same money.

Hibernosaur

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Well that's different, but I was only pointing our that if you wanted a 'console killing' Gaming PC at an affordable price, those spec's are unbalanced in that you could get a much faster gaming machine for the same money.

Well that's actually true I agree with you there for the most part, I'm not sure about much faster but in the same speed ballpark and cheaper - yes. You could do it for less as 16GB and i5 are overkill.

I just thought you were dissin me rig!

Grumpypants

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Sorry but to be frank you haven't a clue what you're talking about. 800-1500 then add to it as you go? a 700 euro PC performing lower than a PS4?

No I am saying you will need to spend a solid €800 to notice a considerable difference over a PS4.

BF4 on PS4 plays at what would be comparable to High settings.

This video is claiming you can build a PC that can play BF4 for €320.


I've been through the process of building a budget PC and adding to it. I was told you could do it for 4-600 by lots of the same names still saying it here, but when it actually came to picking the parts it was unsurprisingly €800. I still had to add a mouse, keyboard, Windows and Monitor. That pushed it over €1,000 and what it produced was not noticeably better than a PS4. It would run BF4 on Medium settings. I couldn't run it properly on Ultra until I upgraded to a R9 290.



Name: 8GB G.Skill kit PC3-10667U CL9
Price: € 35.55

Name: ASRock Z77 Pro3, Socket 1155, ATX
Price: € 91.79

Name: BitFenix ​​Merc Alpha
Price: € 31.61

Name: Corsair 120GB SSD Force3 6.4 cm (2.5 ") SATA
Price: € 110.24

Name: Intel Core i5-2500K Box, LGA1155
Price: € 190.81

Name: Calculator - Assembly
Price: € 20.00

Name: Sapphire HD 7850 2GB GDDR5 OC PCI Express
Price: € 228.32

Name: Super-Flower Amazon 80Plus 550W
Price: € 52.40

Subtotal: € 760.72
Shipping costs Shipping by DHL normal + € 18.99
Charge PayPal (3% of basket value) + € 22.82


Total: € 802.53

harrymagina

Grumpypants wrote: »

The most important piece of advice is to not cheap out. Spending the extra few hundred euro is worth it in the long run.

If you have $400 to spend get a ps4 it is the best value to performance ratio on the market. If you want to build a pc save up and do it right, get a base rig for about €800-1500 then add to it as you go. Then you will notice the difference.

I'm sick of these dumb budget pc videos, great now you have a $400 pc , start it up time to play some games? Kind of hard without Windows, a keyboard, a mouse, a controller, monitor and speakers. So now this $400 pc is getting closer to $700 and it still runs games at a lower setting than a ps4.

I think its cute that you think a 700 euro PC can't beat a console. GTA5 runs at "30 FPS" at 1080P on low detail settings on the PS4. Call of Duty ghosts runs at 1080P on very very low detail settings to hit the magical 60 FPS and the graphics are horrendous. Played it on my friends PS4 and looks like a PS3 game.

A g3528 overclocked on a budget board and an r9 280 will wipe the floor with a console any day of the week. At least you can max out games hitting 50-60 FPS.
Even a 750 TI will wipe the floor with a console. There is a lot more than resolution to games.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

harrymagina

Grumpypants wrote: »

No I am saying you will need to spend a solid €800 to notice a considerable difference over a PS4.

BF4 on PS4 plays at what would be comparable to High settings.

This video is claiming you can build a PC that can play BF4 for €320.


I've been through the process of building a budget PC and adding to it. I was told you could do it for 4-600 by lots of the same names still saying it here, but when it actually came to picking the parts it was unsurprisingly €800. I still had to add a mouse, keyboard, Windows and Monitor. That pushed it over €1,000 and what it produced was not noticeably better than a PS4. It would run BF4 on Medium settings. I couldn't run it properly on Ultra until I upgraded to a R9 290.



Name: 8GB G.Skill kit PC3-10667U CL9
Price: € 35.55

Name: ASRock Z77 Pro3, Socket 1155, ATX
Price: € 91.79

Name: BitFenix ​​Merc Alpha
Price: € 31.61

Name: Corsair 120GB SSD Force3 6.4 cm (2.5 ") SATA
Price: € 110.24

Name: Intel Core i5-2500K Box, LGA1155
Price: € 190.81

Name: Calculator - Assembly
Price: € 20.00

Name: Sapphire HD 7850 2GB GDDR5 OC PCI Express
Price: € 228.32

Name: Super-Flower Amazon 80Plus 550W
Price: € 52.40

Subtotal: € 760.72
Shipping costs Shipping by DHL normal + € 18.99
Charge PayPal (3% of basket value) + € 22.82


Total: € 802.53

Why did you buy the 1155 socket which is two generations old? Why not the new 1150 socket?

Also the 7850 is really a piece of crap as well at that price. Why not ask for help when clearly you know nothing. That PC is way way overpriced. I wouldn't pay 100 euro for the 7850.

TerrorFirmer

Firstly, dollar prices are difference to euro, so the video is really saying a Gaming PC for €400 relative to prices here in Europe.

Secondly, a €500 PC would be noticably better than a PS4; an i3 with R9 280 based machine.

I have NO idea where you are getting this €800 euro spec from - a processor from 2011, a graphics card from 2012 worth about €70 now....

The following would cost about €550 and would be way faster than the PS4.

i3-4160
mAtx Mobo
R9 280 3GB
8GB Ram
430W EVGA White PSU
1TB Hard Drive
Zalman T4 Case
Zalman Keyboard+Mouse

Can easily be done cheaper and still be way faster than the PS4. About €470.

G3258
mAtx Mobo
R9 280 3GB
8GB Ram
430W EVGA White PSU
500GB Hard Drive
Zalman T4 Case
Zalman Keyboard+Mouse

Faster than the PS4. About €440.

G3258
mAtx Mobo
R9 270 2GB
8GB Ram
430W EVGA White PSU
500GB Hard Drive
Zalman T4 Case
Zalman Keyboard+Mouse

And finally, takes a huge steaming dump all over the PS4 for about €700, running games at 1440p ultra settings.

i5-4460
mAtx Mobo
R9 290 4GB
8GB Ram
500W EVGA White PSU
1TB Hard Drive
Zalman T4 Case
Zalman Keyboard+Mouse


There are so many combinations you can make with PC building, for example even the above could be an i3-4160 and come in about about €650.

Point being though that your OP said that you need to spend '800-1500' on a base rig and add to it - which was utter nonsense!

Hibernosaur

The R9 290 4GB is an awesome card.

SterlingArcher

Dcully wrote: »

Did you even watch the video or just label it with "I'm sick of these dumb budget pc videos" and not bother?
Windows can be got for €16,everything else you mentioned is not essential.
My son started out with just a bare bones pc and a pad plus a €4 mouse to click on game launchers, pc connected to his tv via hdmi hence making everything you mentioned not completely essential.
If tek syndicate say that spec will outperform any console i tend to believe them,theres too many so called experts out there but these guys know there stuff and are widely regarded as one of the most knowledgeable out there.

Ofcourse you are 100% correct about not cheaping out but im pretty sure there are plenty who want to just sample PC gaming before investing too much and this is a great way of doing so and is exactly what i done for my young lad and he enjoyed 3 years of pc gaming before all his friends got an xbox.
In the end he decided to stick with his mates on xbox as his main gaming platform though :P

You forgot to mention the savings from no ps+ or xbox memberships. The savings from games on steam compared to 70 euro for console. Ability to upgrade.. did I mention steam. I'll mention it again. Steam. a vastly superior games library. In the long run that pc will save you hundreds. That you can put towards making it a really good one.

Grumpypants

harrymagina wrote: »

Why did you buy the 1155 socket which is two generations old? Why not the new 1150 socket?

Also the 7850 is really a piece of crap as well at that price. Why not ask for help when clearly you know nothing. That PC is way way overpriced. I wouldn't pay 100 euro for the 7850.

Because I bought it two and a half years ago when they were budget mid-range parts.

SterlingArcher

Dcully wrote: »

Did you even watch the video or just label it with "I'm sick of these dumb budget pc videos" and not bother?
Windows can be got for €16,everything else you mentioned is not essential.
My son started out with just a bare bones pc and a pad plus a €4 mouse to click on game launchers, pc connected to his tv via hdmi hence making everything you mentioned not completely essential.
If tek syndicate say that spec will outperform any console i tend to believe them,theres too many so called experts out there but these guys know there stuff and are widely regarded as one of the most knowledgeable out there.

Ofcourse you are 100% correct about not cheaping out but im pretty sure there are plenty who want to just sample PC gaming before investing too much and this is a great way of doing so and is exactly what i done for my young lad and he enjoyed 3 years of pc gaming before all his friends got an xbox.
In the end he decided to stick with his mates on xbox as his main gaming platform though :P

You forgot to mention the savings from no ps+ or xbox memberships. The savings from games on steam compared to 70 euro for console. Ability to upgrade.. did I mention steam. I'll mention it again. Steam. a vastly superior games library. In the long run that pc will save you hundreds. That you can put towards making it a really good one.

TerrorFirmer

Grumpypants wrote: »

Because I bought it two and a half years ago when they were budget mid-range parts.

It was also built far before either console was released, which you also have to be fair about - comparing a Q1 2012 machine with a Q4 2013 console is hardly fair.

How can you use a machine built almost 2 years previous to the consoles release as a basis for needing to spend €800 on a PC to improve on consoles?

(notwithstanding there were plenty of choices in that build that go way beyond just wanting to be a console parity machine. You could have gotten an i5-2400, a basic matx motherboard, a normal HDD, a 430w PSU, as examples, which would have made the machine about €650 at the time)

Grumpypants

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Firstly, dollar prices are difference to euro, so the video is really saying a Gaming PC for €400 relative to prices here in Europe.

Secondly, a €500 PC would be noticably better than a PS4; an i3 with R9 280 based machine.

I have NO idea where you are getting this €800 euro spec from - a processor from 2011, a graphics card from 2012 worth about €70 now....


There are so many combinations you can make with PC building, for example even the above could be an i3-4160 and come in about about €650.

Point being though that your OP said that you need to spend '800-1500' on a base rig and add to it - which was utter nonsense!

That was the build I bought for €800 two 1/2 years ago, at the time it was a mid range budget PC built with mid range budget parts that would run most games at the time on medium to high settings. A comparable PC with modern budget range parts will still be around the same price. My point was at the time I was told you could build that rig for 4-600 euro on here in the building PC forum by the same people who say the same thing today. They picked the parts for me and everything.

Now I have new parts that are better than console notably an R9 290.

My point is if you want to play on a PC that is a console killer then you should be looking at something that is above mid range budget parts. And should spend about €800 on it, other wise you are not getting something that is considerably better than a €400 console.

If you aim to spend €400 on a gaming platform then get a PS4. It is the best bang for your buck.

The second point: What I did was a very quick run through the build you supplied below you said it is about €550 (Note already much higher than the videos budget). I got the prices from a reasonably priced site. I had to make some allowances as some products are not exact matches but the difference is not going to be substantial enough to alter the end result dramatically.

Do you want to take a guess at what the price came out as????? You couldn't make it up it was €802.


i3-4160 -108 http://www.hardwareversand.de/Sockel+1150/189774/Intel+Core+i3-4160+3%2C6GHz+LGA1150+3MB+Cache+Boxed+CPU.article
mAtx Mobo - 131 http://www.hardwareversand.de/DDR3/79802/Gigabyte+G1.Sniper+M5%2C+mATX.article
R9 280 3GB - 190 http://www.hardwareversand.de/3072+MB/160442/MSI+R9+280+GAMING+3G+mit+MANTLE+und+Gaming+Evolved+Client%2C+3GB+DDR5.article
8GB Ram - 65 http://www.hardwareversand.de/1333+Low+Voltage/201560/8GB+GeIL+Dragon+RAM+DIMM+Kit+DDR3-1333%2C+CL9.article
430W EVGA White PSU - 40 http://www.hardwareversand.de/400+-+500+Watt/173786/EVGA+500W%2CWhite%2C3Yrs+Wnt.article
1TB Hard Drive - 113
Zalman T4 Case - 20
Zalman Keyboard+Mouse - 20
Windows 7 64 bit - 95 http://www.dabs.ie/products/microsoft-windows-7-home-premium-w-sp1---1-pc---oem---dvd---64-bit---english-7J00.html
Delivery 20


and that €700 PC is actually a €1,000 PC.

i5-4460 - 165
mAtx Mobo -131
R9 290 4GB - 280
8GB Ram - 65
500W EVGA White PSU -45
1TB Hard Drive -113
Zalman T4 Case - 20
Zalman Keyboard+Mouse - 20
Windows 7 64 bit - 95
Delivery 20

TerrorFirmer

Are you for real?

130 for an matx board?

113 for a 1tb hard drive?

Windows can also be gotten for €20 easily elsewhere as pointed out.

FobleAsNuck

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Windows can also be gotten for €20 easily elsewhere as pointed out.

sorry for piggybacking, but can you elaborate on that?

Grumpypants

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Are you for real?

130 for an matx board?

113 for a 1tb hard drive?

Windows can also be gotten for €20 easily elsewhere as pointed out.

That is why I said in the post there are likely to be some discrepancies in the prices as they are not exact matches to the exact products.

But back to the main point I am still waiting for that €400 build (with all the parts included) that will play BF4 on High settings.

TerrorFirmer

Add Zalman Keyboard and Mouse for €10 (Zalman M200). I use them myself and they work fine, playing BF4 online.

Add Windows for €15-ish on Reddit software swap. Know lots of people who used it with no issues. Total is under €550 delivered in total for full machine.

TerrorFirmer

Grumpypants wrote: »

That is why I said in the post there are likely to be some discrepancies in the prices as they are not exact matches to the exact products.

But back to the main point I am still waiting for that €400 build (with all the parts included) that will play BF4 on High settings.

Same rules for Windows and KB/Mouse. Change from 2GB GTX750 to 750Ti if you want to splash the extra €20 but for the sake of being strict enough.

TheDoc

Grumpypants wrote: »

I built a PC that is a decent rig that will out perform a console. It is a i5 2500K, 8GB Ram, R9 290, 600W PSU and a decent motherboard, with 3 X 22 Inch monitors, Corsair Vengeance K70, Roccat Kova+ mouse, Sony wireless headphones & a wireless 360 controller and a decent speaker system.

It was not $400.

Three monitors can be excessive, two is plenty, one is fine for entry level. So you can save €120 or €240 there depending.

Corsair Vengeanve K70, what's that, a €140 mechanical keyboard? Yeah, entry level user can get a logitech keyboard for €40 and be fine

Roccat Kova+ mouse, again isn't that expensive? Logitech do perfectly fine mice for €40-50

Sony Wireless Headphones - I'll guess there expensive, cause they are sony and wireless. You can get great Sennheiser's for €50. Granted if wireless is your thing, if this is a couch pc, you might go higher

I'd never put speakers into a PC. That is 100% pure added aesthetic. I don't even have speakers for my HTPC, with my televisons speakers being more than sufficent. So there is another saving.

Your confusing what is actually required for a bleary eyed newcomer to PC, and what you want as a seasoned user. Big differece.

Captain Chaos

TheDoc wrote: »

Your confusing what is actually required for a bleary eyed newcomer to PC, and what you want as a seasoned user. Big differece.

If that's the case then the bleary eyed newcomer should take his €400 and get a PS4.

To me a €400 PC rig includes Windows, monitor, speakers, keyboard, mouse and then the rig. A decent mouse costs around €40. The amount of times I cheaped out on a mouse and just had to throw it out, useless they were for anything other than web browsing.

A PS4 connects up to the HDTV you already own.

A basic gaming PC rig that matches or exceeds the latest console will cost around €700-€800 if you build it yourself from nothing. A small half decent monitor for a PC will set you back about €180 alone.

FobleAsNuck

Captain Chaos wrote: »

A PS4 connects up to the HDTV you already own.

any PC can be connected to the TV you already own, moot point

TheDoc

Can second the reddit windows subreddit. Have gotten a good few copies for friends, all perfectly legit with license keys, 10 dollars.

Only thing I'd say is there is questions raised over where they source them from, but its running long enough and is popularly known, so if there was anything seriously dodge I'd imagine it would have been shut down.

Reddit isn't the free for all people sometimes believe it to be. They take software counterfeiting seriously

TheDoc

Captain Chaos wrote: »

If that's the case then the bleary eyed newcomer should take his €400 and get a PS4.

To me a €400 PC rig includes Windows, monitor, speakers, keyboard, mouse and then the rig. A decent mouse costs around €40. The amount of times I cheaped out on a mouse and just had to throw it out, useless they were for anything other than web browsing.

A PS4 connects up to the HDTV you already own.

A basic gaming PC rig that matches or exceeds the latest console will cost around €700-€800 if you build it yourself from nothing. A small half decent monitor for a PC will set you back about €180 alone.

I wouldn't neccessarily disagree, sure if someone wants big bang for their buck, spending €700 would get them a really good rig.

But you can, build a PC, that would cost the same or around the mark of a PS4.

I don't really think peripherals should be included in the debate. I could easily flip it around and ask why do we assume a PS4 purchaser has a TV, that could be a another €300 outlay. I know when I bought my PS2, I had to buy a new televsion for it for my room.

We could also flip the numbers in that for consoles you will pay €70 a pop, where as PC games cost you next to nothing. A new Pc gamer could pickup Battlefield 4 for €15, they could create a massive backlog of good games on steam to have plenty to play through for €50, or avail of sales and get new releases for pennies.

I picked up Football Manager 15 at the weekend for €12, I also got CoDAW for €15, while stores are still touting it for €70 on consoles.

I think to stop things being flipped around, the focus should be on the hardware itself. There is just a good arguement to not assume someone has a 1080p television to take advantage of the PS4, so you need to add €300 onto the PS4 price.

TerrorFirmer

Captain Chaos wrote: »

To me a €400 PC rig includes Windows, monitor, speakers, keyboard, mouse and then the rig. A decent mouse costs around €40. The amount of times I cheaped out on a mouse and just had to throw it out, useless they were for anything other than web browsing.

Totally dramatic in fairness. I personally use a €20 Roccat Lua mouse on my build, and my backup is a M200 €5 mouse - both are fine, the Lua has been my primary gaming mouse for about 2 years but the Zalman does in a pinch. I play FPS online and never had a problem.

I also have a 2nd PC hooked up to my living room TV as a gaming/media machine, no need for monitors/speakers.

Grumpypants

TheDoc wrote: »

Three monitors can be excessive, two is plenty, one is fine for entry level. So you can save €120 or €240 there depending.

Corsair Vengeanve K70, what's that, a €140 mechanical keyboard? Yeah, entry level user can get a logitech keyboard for €40 and be fine

Roccat Kova+ mouse, again isn't that expensive? Logitech do perfectly fine mice for €40-50

Sony Wireless Headphones - I'll guess there expensive, cause they are sony and wireless. You can get great Sennheiser's for €50. Granted if wireless is your thing, if this is a couch pc, you might go higher

I'd never put speakers into a PC. That is 100% pure added aesthetic. I don't even have speakers for my HTPC, with my televisons speakers being more than sufficent. So there is another saving.

Your confusing what is actually required for a bleary eyed newcomer to PC, and what you want as a seasoned user. Big differece.

Oh yeah total overkill on the mechanical keyboard I just wanted to upgrade after using a cheap one for 4 years and wanted to buy a treat to make me feel special .

And to be honest the cheap one I really liked as it was small, the thing is in the OP's video the build had no keyboard, no mouse, no controller, no operating system. It is going to be kind of hard to play all those games without them.

I'm not saying someone can't get a cheap entry level PC, I'm not saying they can't use cheap items, heck they can rob them from the electrical recycling plant for all I care.

I am saying if you really and truly want to see a genuinely noticeable difference between the games you play on PS4 and what you will see on PC then take an extra few weeks or months and save up an extra few euro to get a build that will give you that performance boost. If you are planning on spending €500 then the jump made in such a relatively small increase of 2-300 Euro is really worth it.

If all you have is €400 to spend on a machine then the PS4 is a phenomenal machine at that price point.

When someone makes a video about a €400 console Killer I expect it to be 1. fully functional. 2. Fully priced at €400. 3. Substantially better than a PS4 to justify the console killer tag.

TheDoc

I'm not going to bash you on the keyboard, I've a €120+ mechanical one myself, and it doesn't even have a numpad

But again it's something to get when you are more seasoned. For a longtime I used a bargain bin €10 job from PcWorld. Then I got myself a Logitech G15 and kept in the series for a few iterations.

Then I went to a mechanical keyboard only last year after hearing great things about them. And sure, I'll never go back. But when you consider I was using membrane keyboards for like, 15 years, I don't think its something you need to jump into right away.

I replaced my Logitech MX518 mouse with a Deathadder from Razer, but after a few weeks went back. I've had that mx518 going on, like 10 years. I recently switched back again to the Razer. I'll never buy a mouse off them again, they are pure marketing garbage imo that don't do great products, but the point being it all comes with time.

Like I'm a seasoned PC gamer, and I've ALWAYS bitched out of buying high end GPU's because of the cost, sticking to midrange. It's never affected my gaming, I've still being able to play games at good FPS, high settings and got what I wanted.

I tend to always prioritise FPS though over looks, and so many games I've never even put on high or ultra settings, for fear of not having optimum FPS

Grumpypants

TheDoc wrote: »

I wouldn't neccessarily disagree, sure if someone wants big bang for their buck, spending €700 would get them a really good rig.

But you can, build a PC, that would cost the same or around the mark of a PS4.

I don't really think peripherals should be included in the debate. I could easily flip it around and ask why do we assume a PS4 purchaser has a TV, that could be a another €300 outlay. I know when I bought my PS2, I had to buy a new televsion for it for my room.

We could also flip the numbers in that for consoles you will pay €70 a pop, where as PC games cost you next to nothing. A new Pc gamer could pickup Battlefield 4 for €15, they could create a massive backlog of good games on steam to have plenty to play through for €50, or avail of sales and get new releases for pennies.

I picked up Football Manager 15 at the weekend for €12, I also got CoDAW for €15, while stores are still touting it for €70 on consoles.

I think to stop things being flipped around, the focus should be on the hardware itself. There is just a good arguement to not assume someone has a 1080p television to take advantage of the PS4, so you need to add €300 onto the PS4 price.

I wouldn't get too bogged down in monitors etc only to note that a PC is traditionally on a desk with a monitor so it is the most likely/comfortable scenario. But as you say everyone assumes the TV is already there for the console which is not always true either.

In terms of controllers you do get a PS4 controller (which is a top of the line controller) free with the console. That controller is worth €45 so it would be fair to assume you would need at least one method for interacting with the PC. A sub par controller is just that a sub par controller. While it might do the job it isn't comparing like for like.

Games too COD, Unity and Destiny for example are all €35 now in boxed versions from Simply Games (they can be traded in too to get some of that money back). Plus you have to factor the amount of money wasted in Steam sales on games you will never play :pac:

TheDoc

I don't think peripherals can really influence the debate.

Sure a PS4 controller is €45 ( I'm pretty sure its more) but then console controllers are always pricey considering they assume you'll want to buy one more for friends to play, or if you break it.

As described, you can get a mouse and keyboard for €20, aesthetics and fancyness and taste aside, €20.

If you wanted a controller, you can use an Xbox 360 and PC interface easily, they are picked up for €20 now on Amazon, ebay et.c no problem. My father only bought a 360 controller and the Pc wireless connection thing for €20 off ebay before christmas.

Either or, the focus should be on the physical machine itself.

TerrorFirmer

Well to be fair I thought the implication from the video was that it's a console killer in the sense of it's a good quality viable alternative that offers you a way into the PC market, where games are cheaper, there are an infinite amount of free games to play, custom game and mod potential, and so on.

Whereas traditionally people would say "€400? Sure you can barely buy an office PC with that." The PC and the one I've spec'd above for €420 (inc. windows, keyboard mouse, full PC) kill that outdated ideal that you simply have to spend €800+ to get a gaming PC.

It's a hangover from the late 90's/early to mid 00's to be honest.

I don't think anyone was thinking that a €400 PC would actually maul the PS4 performance wise. It shows that you don't have to think 'I can't afford a gaming PC, so I'll get a console'. Budget gaming PC's have become so incredibly affordable the last number of years.

I have an Xbox One and a PS4 as well as my PC's actually but if I had to choose between either of them and a €400 Pc I'd take the PC instantly. Obviously there will always be people who just plain prefer consoles and that's fine - but there are people who don't realise just how affordable gaming PC's can actually be.

Of critical importance is that around these parts, even a 'budget' gaming PC needs to be able to generally run games at 1080p medium-high as a baseline.

Technically you could build a €300 gaming PC with something like a G1840 processor, 4GB of ram, and an R7 250. Would it play new games? Yes, it still would. Battlefield 4, Shadow of Mordor, etc- no problem. But there would be sacrifice, and it's at those points you have to ask 'Is this even worth it?'.

Some people still call them gaming PC's and they are to a point, but it's important that you make a distinction. Flexability's a great thing though, the last machine I built was from old parts, cost €160 in total and it ran Alien Isolation at 1080p ultra, Shadow of Mordor at 720p high, and easily got through other popular stuff like Borderlands, Dishonored, etc at 1080p ultra. (It's not great for BF4 online for example have to play on 32-man servers and FPS not great, so that one's closer to the 360 level but point being that in general, for €160 it's great)

PC's have an incredible flexability that consoles can never have.

deceit

Captain Chaos wrote: »

If that's the case then the bleary eyed newcomer should take his €400 and get a PS4.

To me a €400 PC rig includes Windows, monitor, speakers, keyboard, mouse and then the rig. A decent mouse costs around €40. The amount of times I cheaped out on a mouse and just had to throw it out, useless they were for anything other than web browsing.

A PS4 connects up to the HDTV you already own.

A basic gaming PC rig that matches or exceeds the latest console will cost around €700-€800 if you build it yourself from nothing. A small half decent monitor for a PC will set you back about €180 alone.

Why should a €400 pc include monitor and speakers?
Saying that would be like saying a €400 ps4 should include one. When I purchased my ps4 and xbox one I had to purchase a tv as its not something I would have had otherwise. What you said is like me saying that tv I bought should've been in my 400 budget for the ps4 or xbox one.

vibe666

Hibernosaur wrote: »

The R9 290 4GB is an awesome card.

I know, I have a pair of them!

ufc pro

Hey lads sorry for going a bit off topic but I'm very new to pc gaming , I'm moving from console and instead of getting a ps4 or xbox 1 I'm taking the advice from forums and some friends and going the phone route. I can go to to 600 but that's it, it will be in my sitting room so something compact would be nice, I would be using xbmc Netflix etc and of course gaming, you guys seem to really know your stuff, what would yous recommend?? Any help would be great!!

I was looking at the amd fx 8350, 8 go of ram, and with so many different graphics cards it impossible to choose, any suggestions?

FobleAsNuck

these days I'd go for gf 970, despite having r9 290 from AMD at the moment. if you can't get either, think about r9 280
any custom cooler one would do

Gumbi

I'd make a thread for some better advice. If your budget is 600 then a 970/290 is out of the question for you. They would be too expensice for that build.

Also, I wouldn't recommend an AMD chip for gaming. An i5 is a muxh better choice.

ufc pro

Gumbi wrote: »

I'd make a thread for some better advice. If your budget is 600 then a 970/290 is out of the question for you. They would be too expensice for that build.

Also, I wouldn't recommend an AMD chip for gaming. An i5 is a muxh better choice.

thanks for the advice, ill have a look. Thanks again....

john the one

TheDoc wrote: »

I

I think to stop things being flipped around, the focus should be on the hardware itself. There is just a good argument to not assume someone has a 1080p television to take advantage of the PS4, so you need to add €300 onto the PS4 price.

I cant agree im afraid, in order to work the hardware you need the peripheals (PS comes with controllers boxed) and the OS. Playstation has its own OS.

i bought recently and it cost a lot more that i thought i would. Granted, the gaming experience is double what it was but i splashed out. new desk, KB, second monitor etc. All in, it cost about 1200 euro.

Would i do it again, damn straight.

Gumbi

john the one wrote: »

I cant agree im afraid, in order to work the hardware you need the peripheals (PS comes with controllers boxed) and the OS. Playstation has its own OS.

i bought recently and it cost a lot more that i thought i would. Granted, the gaming experience is double what it was but i splashed out. new desk, KB, second monitor etc. All in, it cost about 1200 euro.

Would i do it again, damn straight.

You're not comparing like with like at all though.

FobleAsNuck

Gumbi wrote: »

Also, I wouldn't recommend an AMD chip for gaming. An i5 is a muxh better choice.

better how exactly? and which models you refer to?