can I teach with criminal record

fireball69

Hi, there is a possibility that I will get a criminal record for 3 arrests (drunk and disorderly/ aggression) and was just wondering will it effect my future of teaching kids?

fireball69

Hi, there is a possibility that I will get a criminal record for 3 arrests (drunk and disorderly/ aggression/ failure to comply) and was just wondering will it effect my future of teaching kids?

endacl

fireball69 wrote: »

Hi, there is a possibility that I will get a criminal record for 3 arrests (drunk and disorderly/ aggression) and was just wondering will it effect my future of teaching kids?

Theoretically, maybe not, depending on the attitude of the interviewing panel.

Realistically though, you'll be up against hundreds for any advertised post. Most of those will be more experienced than you, and will not have a record.

roadsmart

If you are teaching kids you will be Garda vetted, so they will definitely find out about it.

roadsmart

Is there an echo in here?

fireball69

roadsmart wrote: »

If you are teaching kids you will be Garda vetted, so they will definitely find out about it.

I am aware that they will know about it, and I am not going to lie. However, I am not yet qualified and am wondering if there is any point in continuing, if there is a good chance I will not be given a job, due to my record.

GarIT

I would hope it does.

fireball69

GarIT wrote: »

I would hope it does.

Not here to be judged ... just looking for advice!

roadsmart

Sorry, can't answer that. I would ask you however that if you are for example one of ten candidates for a position and the other candidates haven't got 3 convictions for antisocial behaviour, how do you think it would go?

GarIT

fireball69 wrote: »

Not here to be judged ... just looking for advice!

I probably was a bit harsh but what's the point in Garda getting if it doesn't filter out the criminals. It would certainly be difficult to get a job in a field with such massive unemployment with a criminal conviction. When posts are getting 100+ applicants and the principal is looking to filter out CVs you have given a great reason there. The employment prospects for teachers probably will change with the economy improving and government spending increasing.

MisterKipling

first thing you'll have to apply for is garda clearance. you won't get teaching or working with children in any capacity in this country or others for that matter.

spurious

I taught alongside people who had been in prison. It depends what the offence is and how long ago. Violence or anything sexual would not be good.

It might be worth running the question past the teaching unions.

fireball69

spurious wrote: »

I taught alongside people who had been in prison. It depends what the offence is and how long ago. Violence or anything sexual would not be good.

It might be worth running the question past the teaching unions.

In what situation were you working though? e.g. with vulnerable people (elderly/ kids) as I know they are strict about these age groups especially!

GarIT

It wont help with Garda vetting but if you've had three arrests all drink relates you really need to go to rehab and follow it up with AA it would certainly help your employment prospects.

spurious

I taught with people with criminal records. It depends on the offence and when it happened.

Here are the TC guidelines on it:
http://www.teachingcouncil.ie/_fileupload/Garda%20Vetting/Amended%20and%20%20ApprovedGuidelines%20mem%20AssessCourtConvictions%2017%20Sep%202012%20kel.pdf

Was this also asked in another forum? Thought I answered it a few minutes ago.

spurious

fireball69 wrote: »

In what situation were you working though? e.g. with vulnerable people (elderly/ kids) as I know they are strict about these age groups especially!

Teaching in a school.

fireball69

GarIT wrote: »

It wont help with Garda vetting but if you've had three arrests all drink relates you really need to go to rehab and follow it up with AA it would certainly help your employment prospects.

You see, I don't necessarily have a problem with drinking. It was just a few nights on the tear that i ended up over-consuming, but it's not a common habit. I have done exceptionally well on teaching practice, and just hope my whole future is not jeopardised, basic on 3 nights where I wasn't thinking straight!

braddun

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/monitoring_and_surveillance_at_work/garda_clearance_for_employees.html

looksee

can I teach with criminal record

No doubt you can, whether you would be permitted is another question.

fireball69

spurious wrote: »

Teaching in a school.

That's interesting. I suppose it does depend on a variety of factors, such as the number of people applying for a position, the interviewing panel, etc.

Mongfinder General

Were you just arrested or actually convicted?

GarIT

fireball69 wrote: »

You see, I don't necessarily have a problem with drinking. It was just a few nights on the tear that i ended up over-consuming, but it's not a common habit. I have done exceptionally well on teaching practice, and just hope my whole future is not jeopardised, basic on 3 nights where I wasn't thinking straight!

Personally I'd disagree, you can't be arrested for D&D without having a problem. If it was 1 I'd say maybe it was a mistake but by the third I'd say it's a problem.

spurious

fireball69 wrote: »

That's interesting. I suppose it does depend on a variety of factors, such as the number of people applying for a position, the interviewing panel, etc.

The main thing would be the nature of the offence. Repeat offences would not be good, but as I said, there's a lot more to it. People are becoming teachers later and later now and often some of them will have had a colourful youth, which could be 20 or more years ago now.

fireball69

Mongfinder General wrote: »

Were you just arrested or actually convicted?

Arrested twice. No conviction (just a caution). 3rd arrest - waiting for court date, and possible conviction.

tayto lover

Why did you start two threads on this?

fireball69

tayto lover wrote: »

Why did you start two threads on this?

completely by mistake! wasn't sure how to remove the second one! :S

Mongfinder General

fireball69 wrote: »

Arrested twice. No conviction (just a caution). 3rd arrest - waiting for court date, and possible conviction.

The school will do due diligence checks but if you do not have a criminal record then they can't disclose one.


I am not sure how a caution fits in. The school should ask you for permission first before enquiring into your history.

pablo128

spurious wrote: »

The main thing would be the nature of the offence. Repeat offences would not be good, but as I said, there's a lot more to it. People are becoming teachers later and later now and often some of them will have had a colourful youth, which could be 20 or more years ago now.

My secondary English teacher, who was a professor of English, was a former member of the IRA. She had served 6 years in prison for armed robbery.

smcgiff

fireball69 wrote: »

Arrested twice. No conviction (just a caution). 3rd arrest - waiting for court date, and possible conviction.

If this was me I'd have signed up with AA before the court date. Get over that first.

fire_man

Hi op.did you not learn after first or second time you were caught?

fireball69

fire_man wrote: »

Hi op.did you not learn after first or second time you were caught?

I thought I had. I had done so well staying out of trouble, and i don't know what happened. It was over something stupid! I am kicking myself that I let it happen again!

zarquon

fireball69 wrote: »

Arrested twice. No conviction (just a caution). 3rd arrest - waiting for court date, and possible conviction.

3 arrests for drink related offenses! You are the only one who would argue that you don't have a problem. In a career where garda vetting is more and more paramount you have seriously jeopardised your career and job opportunities.

You do have a problem and i suggest you seek some help before find yourself in trouble again.

Legally speaking your future employers will have a record of all your convictions as part of the vetting process.

Melanoma

I think criminal records that might effect children are what is relevant. If you have had a drink driving conviction it does not mean that you would assault a child.

If you have a criminal record for assault of adults again its unlikely you are a danger to children.

That said if you have when drinking become violent then its indicative of a problem that might be there. This to me would be a concern. I would have some questions then as to where you could draw the line between what you want and what is right.

I guess that as spurious said there are guidelines but they are rather long winded.

For me the thing I think the criminal records are for is to prevent children from being hurt in particular being subject to either violence or sexual risk.

So if you can apply for garda vetting then it will be apparent what the law views your convictions.

If the law does not see you as a threat then that is that. It does not matter what I think or anyone else thinks.

If you had three bad nights with drink then as said before its best not to drink again.

Melanoma

As its pending conviction that would have to be resolved first before the Gardai could resolve your vetting. Vetting itself can take up to ten weeks to complete.

Obviously life can throw a lot at you and things can go wrong. If you are prevented from teaching just bear in mind its something you'll get over and try not to let it get you down too much.

Just move on.

JOSman

Wow, such aggressive behaviour and you think that's okay? If you had done it once we'd call you stupid but to be arrested three times? The majority of people go through life without ever being arrested. You have to look at your own life style.

Look for another career.

shenanagans

You say that you have done exceptionally well on your teaching practice so you must be garda vetted already if you have been teaching? Did these arrests occur since you were vetted, if so that wouldn't look good when you apply for a job?

boardsuser1

I have convictions, tried getting a job working with u18's I'm having all sorts of trouble as a result

Note: it's not teaching, and the convictions are of minor and historic nature

Little CuChulainn

The administrative filter being used for vetting these days would benefit many people who have historical convictions. In the case of the op though, he had three recent incidents of being drunk to an extent he had to be arrested and is now looking to be put in charge of a classroom of kids. I think if I was on the interview panel I'd have to have a good reason for not dropping him to the bottom of the list. Perhaps if he'd sobered up and was in a program for a few years or something.

evolving_doors

Mongfinder General wrote: »

The school will do due diligence checks but if you do not have a criminal record then they can't disclose one.


I am not sure how a caution fits in. The school should ask you for permission first before enquiring into your history.

Dunno what you mean by 'enquiring into your history' ! Most schools I know just look for garda vetting and thats that. It's just a form you either have or don't.

OP forget about first 2 arrests if theres no conviction. The pending one might give you a lot of trouble. Is there any chance you could 'discuss' what you might be facing with the guard who arrested you. Either way, Don't be an idiot and defend yourself, get legal representation, sign up for a drink awareness program now if possible, (then at least you can say you are exploring your issues). Do mention that you are successfully completing a teaching diploma , I think the last thing a judge would want to do is set back your employment prospects.

I know theres the whole 'responsibility' thing and working with kids (just imagine you unbeknowingly got into a fight with a student's parent while on the lash!). So there's a certain line thats different for teachers and other working joes, none of my colleagues or former teachers socialise in the same locality as the school, if you hang around too long then things will happen and rumours wil start.

But if you take it as a wake up call BEFORE you start teaching properly then it'll be a lesson well learned.

fireball69

shenanagans wrote: »

You say that you have done exceptionally well on your teaching practice so you must be garda vetted already if you have been teaching? Did these arrests occur since you were vetted, if so that wouldn't look good when you apply for a job?

Yes they have occurred since I have been vetted!

Manach

My own 2c/opinion, if the behaviour could directly impact children then it should be an issue. However as the OP's acts would no relevance to teaching, then it should (IMHO) not be an issue. Historically, the use of vetting to ensure that applicants for certain state professions are filtered out (for being policial unreliable) has had a detriment effect on education policy. Thus the over-use of such vetting which catches offences such as the OP's should be avoided on policy grounds.

Tramps Like Us

OP go to AA, some drink awareness thing BEFORE your court date (even if you think you don't need it it will look good to the Judge). Get decent representation, some good character references and theres a good chance the Judge will go light on you because a conviction could mess your employment prospects up.

evolving_doors

Manach wrote: »

My own 2c/opinion, if the behaviour could directly impact children then it should be an issue. However as the OP's acts would no relevance to teaching, then it should (IMHO) not be an issue . Historically, the use of vetting to ensure that applicants for certain state professions are filtered out (for being policial unreliable) has had a detriment effect on education policy. Thus the over-use of such vetting which catches offences such as the OP's should be avoided on policy grounds.

I think the school have an 'out' if a teacher's actions go against the almighty ETHOS. I think there was a famous case against a teacher who was seeing a married man ( or something like that).. school said byebye and they won the case taken against them on the grounds of going against the ethos (same as that case of the pregnant girl in tipp who was refused admission.. bout 2 years ago). So essentially a school could say 'no' before or after getting a job.

Also the new teaching council code of ethics is purposefully vague on 'standards of conduct' etc.
Main thing is not having it on the garda vetting in the first place.

fireball69

Thanks for your replies. Another concern I have is that I will be kicked out of university if they find out about my record, especially as the local papers tend to publicise court cases... Not sure if universities can do that?

Tramps Like Us

fireball69 wrote: »

Thanks for your replies. Another concern I have is that I will be kicked out of university if they find out about my record, especially as the local papers tend to publicise court cases... Not sure if universities can do that?

No you'll be grand on that score. I know people who have been convicted of far more serious things than you may be and they are grand (a couple are even lecturers)

boardsuser1

Convictions for the majority not the minority show people made mistakes of a very stupid nature in their lives but for the best part are decent people, why should someone be punished by a non serious conviction if they have remained trouble free for say 10 years later, people change and the laws are changing (at a snails pace) to reflect this

smcgiff

Unless the transgressions involves the uni you'll be grand. Plenty people actually in prison doing 3rd level courses.

Duiske

Armelodie wrote: »

OP forget about first 2 arrests if theres no conviction. The pending one might give you a lot of trouble. Is there any chance you could 'discuss' what you might be facing with the guard who arrested you. Either way, Don't be an idiot and defend yourself, get legal representation, sign up for a drink awareness program now if possible, (then at least you can say you are exploring your issues). Do mention that you are successfully completing a teaching diploma , I think the last thing a judge would want to do is set back your employment prospects.

OP, the advice above is probably the best you are going to get. I'd agree that a judge will not want to ruin a potential career, but you'll certainly need to show that you are making an effort to get your life in order.

fireball69 wrote: »

You see, I don't necessarily have a problem with drinking. It was just a few nights on the tear that i ended up over-consuming, but it's not a common habit.

Sorry OP, you're on here asking if there's a chance you have ruined your teaching career because of 3 drink related arrests, and you think you don't necessarily have a problem ? When you over-consume alcohol you have a tendency to engage in conduct that leads to you getting yourself arrested, so yes, you have a problem. You're bright enough to become a teacher, so i'm sure you're bright enough to work out the solution to the problem. Good luck with it, hope everything works out.

Mongfinder General

Armelodie wrote: »

Dunno what you mean by 'enquiring into your history' ! Most schools I know just look for garda vetting and thats that. It's just a form you either have or don't.

OP forget about first 2 arrests if theres no conviction. The pending one might give you a lot of trouble. Is there any chance you could 'discuss' what you might be facing with the guard who arrested you. Either way, Don't be an idiot and defend yourself, get legal representation, sign up for a drink awareness program now if possible, (then at least you can say you are exploring your issues). Do mention that you are successfully completing a teaching diploma , I think the last thing a judge would want to do is set back your employment prospects.

I know theres the whole 'responsibility' thing and working with kids (just imagine you unbeknowingly got into a fight with a student's parent while on the lash!). So there's a certain line thats different for teachers and other working joes, none of my colleagues or former teachers socialise in the same locality as the school, if you hang around too long then things will happen and rumours wil start.

But if you take it as a wake up call BEFORE you start teaching properly then it'll be a lesson well learned.

So are you telling me that the Department of Education does not make applicants for teaching positions sign a form granting permission to the the department and it's aegis to make the necessary due diligence enquiries?

evolving_doors

Mongfinder General wrote: »

So are you telling me that the Department of Education does not make applicants for teaching positions sign a form granting permission to the the department and it's aegis to make the necessary due diligence enquiries?

As far as Im aware!
Do the job interview,
Principal asks for garda vetting form.
Hand it over.
Thats that.

There might be some thing with ETB's but I can't see why they would want to double up on work when you have a garda vetting form in your hand.

In saying that, I would imagine there are some schools who do informal background checks.

BTW the school is 'usually' the employer, not the dept of ed. (as was highlighted by the Louise O keeffe case recently.. although EU took a different view in the end).

IamtheWalrus

Some of you people need to get off your high horses. The OP came looking for advice on his future teaching prospects, not to be condescended to.