Pneumonia in weanling

Dickie10

bought 14 weanlings 10 days ago, had to give 1 a nuflo shot the following day, after they settled in well until today, they are in a straw bedded open shed plenty of air they can come in and out to open yard, this is for ubtil they get out of danger and caan be put in slats with other weanlings, this morning however i looked in to the shed and as it was pisssing down most were lying on straw chewing cud, unfortunatly one must have been under the weather, because as i fed and bedded at 5 pm one was still lying down on closer inspection she was breaathing heavy and would not get up,, basic pneumonia. gave 15 ml of nuflu in muscle and called the vet. the animal however got a lot worse in the 2 hrs this evening till the vet got out. the heifer was sprawled out head on ground. i propped her head up and the vet gave her 2 injections of high dose. propped up her body when the vet went and now hoping for the best but shes in a bad way.

a
now to my question, the vet said to give them all 25-30 ml of Alamycin Long Acting tommorrow and again on friday would this be normal , i thought one 30 ml dose of Alamycin would be enough, its not the expense or anything just looking for a second opinion.

Also just looking for a basic opinion on dealing with pneumoia in cattle/weanlings. feels a real kick in the gut to have this heifer down tonight when i tried so hard to do everything to keep them right when i bought them in. to be honest i wanted to give them all a dose of alamycin when they came in , but on the advice of a good cattle judge who actually does things very right he thought they were out of danger during the week and said they were all loooking good.

i suppose i should have went in and put every thing on their feet this morning!
any advice greatly appreciatted!

john8984

As regards the Alamycin I have given it that way in Two rounds as instructed by my vet in the past.
Always good advise to put all the animals standing each morning and watch for a while and do the same thing every few hours especially with bought in stock.

Miname

Get draxin off the vet instead. It's dearer but far superior for pneumonia in my opinion. I had a few calves with a touch of pneumonia last week and hit them with resphlor and it worked pretty fast too. Anytime I have used alamycin I would be hitting them just up of they had a slight chill or something.

agriman27

Pneumonia is the worst thing about buying weanlings, I buy a good few every year and its just something you have to learn to deal with and watch out for. I don't believe in injecting straight after buying, for instance the rest of your bunch are fine so they wouldn't have needed an injection. If I see one lookin dull and no appetite I inject straight away, it is easy stopped if its got in time. I wouldn't really agree with your vet about injecting them all unless they start to show signs because they might not have the dose. That's generally my plan. If you could split them up into smaller numbers it would help. I find that CTC powder is very good to get weanlings over the dose and to help them settle in and get them going.

Count Mondego

I vaccinate all weanlings either when they arrive or before going into shed. Might be expensive but cheaper than a dead one.

severeoversteer

isolate the sick one form the rest of the bunch no matter what you do

draxxin is your only man for this scenario especially if they are down

the ones that go down quickly in my experience don't tend to make it

the rest of the animals may not be showing signs but I would err on the side of caution and go with nuflor on them all, check all they're temps aswell

ctc powder has worked well for me when things were dire here with weanlings

clean out water troughs twice a day to reduce spread of bacteria

make sure they are all hydrated

weather is very mild at the moment so I would like a gale going through the shed as the humidity is very high

by the sound of the weanling you have I wouldn't be a bit surprised if youll be needing the knacker in the morn

get the vets advice and watch every animal like a hawk

poor farmer

Count Mondego wrote: »

I vaccinate all weanlings either when they arrive or before going into shed. Might be expensive but cheaper than a dead one.

What vaccine are you using ?

mahoney_j

Vaccinate with bovipast as soon asctheyvarrive on farm.prevention is better than cure.vaccine is dear at around 6 euro a shot but vets bills and dead ainmals are dearer

Miname

+1 on the bovipast it's serious stuff but give them the double dose.

follett

alamycin and tylo is what my vet always uses. prevention is the best of all when your buying in

poor farmer

mahoney_j wrote: »

Vaccinate with bovipast as soon asctheyvarrive on farm.prevention is better than cure.vaccine is dear at around 6 euro a shot but vets bills and dead ainmals are dearer

I have on going problems with pneumonia over the years.
obviously there are several strains of it .
My very basic understanding of it is that the main types are ibr rsv pi3
Bovi plast covers rsv and pi3 .
Ibr needs a separate vaccine.
Ibr will kill quicker.I give Ibr vaccine intranasal to all weanlings especially bought in ones.
To get full cover with boviplast, you have to give 2 shots one month apart

Muckit

Would the high risk period not be over after a month on farm?

follett

Muckit wrote: »

Would the high risk period not be over after a month on farm?

you can never take that chance vaccinate

Mad4simmental

Muckit wrote: »

Would the high risk period not be over after a month on farm?

He bought them 10 days ago. My vet reckons 9 to 16 days after they arrive to new farm most lads get the most trouble.

Sorry just saw that you were talking about the follow up injection.

severeoversteer

follett wrote: »

you can never take that chance vaccinate

well if there is already the hint of infection in the herd you will be wasting your money vaccinating

vaccination is only effective when used immediately on arrival or 3 weeks before you buy

you are best use a preventative dose of nuflor on all the rest of the bunch, give the nuflor under the skin as opposed to into the muscle as the under skin is longer lasting and helps prevent outbreaks

follett

severeoversteer wrote: »

well if there is already the hint of infection in the herd you will be wasting your money vaccinating

vaccination is only effective when used immediately on arrival or 3 weeks before you buy

you are best use a preventative dose of nuflor on all the rest of the bunch, give the nuflor under the skin as opposed to into the muscle as the under skin is longer lasting and helps prevent outbreaks

I should have said prevention nuflor is a great drug have used it before

Good loser

I wouldn't do anything with the rest.

Just watch carefully and take temperature if unsure.

Count Mondego

poor farmer wrote: »

What vaccine are you using ?

I buy a few calves each spring and do them with rispoval (sic) the one up the nose. Six weeks before housing all weanlings will get the first administration of Bovipast and the second two weeks before. I'd say I would have had a few this year. They went into the shed on a bad day and a week after a load of them had massive snots one morning. Frightened me no end. Took temps off a few and they were fine. Removed 3 from the group to give them more space too. No problems after that. They were injected with mectin before going in, I know this can be severe but they were coughing very little.

orm0nd

OP's animal should be on a IV drip

at that stage it's as important as pumping drugs into her

reading on other forums it seems to be an extremely bad year for pneumonia

early detection is vital ,

have a ewe and a bullock myself this morning , gave both Oxipla LA , will repeat on Friday

Deepsouthwest

Dickie10 wrote: »

bought 14 weanlings 10 days ago, had to give 1 a nuflo shot the following day, after they settled in well until today, they are in a straw bedded open shed plenty of air they can come in and out to open yard, this is for ubtil they get out of danger and caan be put in slats with other weanlings, this morning however i looked in to the shed and as it was pisssing down most were lying on straw chewing cud, unfortunatly one must have been under the weather, because as i fed and bedded at 5 pm one was still lying down on closer inspection she was breaathing heavy and would not get up,, basic pneumonia. gave 15 ml of nuflu in muscle and called the vet. the animal however got a lot worse in the 2 hrs this evening till the vet got out. the heifer was sprawled out head on ground. i propped her head up and the vet gave her 2 injections of high dose. propped up her body when the vet went and now hoping for the best but shes in a bad way.

a
now to my question, the vet said to give them all 25-30 ml of Alamycin Long Acting tommorrow and again on friday would this be normal , i thought one 30 ml dose of Alamycin would be enough, its not the expense or anything just looking for a second opinion.

Also just looking for a basic opinion on dealing with pneumoia in cattle/weanlings. feels a real kick in the gut to have this heifer down tonight when i tried so hard to do everything to keep them right when i bought them in. to be honest i wanted to give them all a dose of alamycin when they came in , but on the advice of a good cattle judge who actually does things very right he thought they were out of danger during the week and said they were all loooking good.

i suppose i should have went in and put every thing on their feet this morning!
any advice greatly appreciatted!

How's ur weanling this morning? Must say I'm fearing the worst

micky mouse

severeoversteer wrote: »

isolate the sick one form the rest of the bunch no matter what you do

draxxin is your only man for this scenario especially if they are down

the ones that go down quickly in my experience don't tend to make it

the rest of the animals may not be showing signs but I would err on the side of caution and go with nuflor on them all, check all they're temps aswell

ctc powder has worked well for me when things were dire here with weanlings

clean out water troughs twice a day to reduce spread of bacteria

make sure they are all hydrated

weather is very mild at the moment so I would like a gale going through the shed as the humidity is very high

by the sound of the weanling you have I wouldn't be a bit surprised if youll be needing the knacker in the morn

get the vets advice and watch every animal like a hawk

if not showing signs would you not be better using a less powerful drug,if down the road you get an outbreak would nuflor not work better in that case as they weren't,"use" to it

severeoversteer

micky mouse wrote: »

if not showing signs would you not be better using a less powerful drug,if down the road you get an outbreak would nuflor not work better in that case as they weren't,"use" to it

you can use nuflor for prevention and for cure

either under skin or into the muscle

nuflor isint much good when a weanling is down with her nose on the ground panting, and if they get that bad that quick you may have a different strain of pneumonia! which I am holding back on saying at the moment

Aru

Jesus....Nuflor is overkill as a prevention.its a powerful drug and should not be used as a first line of defence.no wonder they are trying to reign in the use of antibiotics on farms!
Has no one heard of antibiotic resistance?!!
what happens when nuflor and other drugs stop working from overuse?.marbocyl(marbofloxacin)is already ineffective in many areas from overuse.it was a wonder drug when first released.it's not uncommon to face resistance issues....add to that the fact that new antibiotic groups have not been discovered in years! We are on a slippery downward slope if things continue as they are.

Pneumonia tends have a large viral element. antibiotics don't treat virus' only bacteria.yes they help in severe cases as bacteria attack virus damaged animals lungs as well but they are not the ideal prevention.
vaccination before arrival would be the ideal to have the antibodies in the system as it's the stress of travel and changes in conditions can bring on the severe illness but even vaccination on the day the weaklings arrive should be more effective than most antibiotic cover as they usually get sick in the 4 weeks post arrival. if you are bringing in groups of weanlings esp if mixing groups it's a Huge help.

How's the weanlings this morning?

severeoversteer

Aru wrote: »

Jesus....Nuflor is overkill as a prevention.its a powerful drug and should not be used as a first line of defence.no wonder they are trying to reign in the use of antibiotics on farms!
Has no one heard of antibiotic resistance?!!
what happens when nuflor and other drugs stop working from overuse?.marbocyl(marbofloxacin)is already ineffective in many areas from overuse.it was a wonder drug when first released.it's not uncommon to face resistance issues....add to that the fact that new antibiotic groups have not been discovered in years! We are on a slippery downward slope if things continue as they are.

Pneumonia tends have a large viral element. antibiotics don't treat virus' only bacteria.yes they help in severe cases as bacteria attack virus damaged animals lungs as well but they are not the ideal prevention.
vaccination before arrival would be the ideal to have the antibodies in the system as it's the stress of travel and changes in conditions can bring on the severe illness but even vaccination on the day the weaklings arrive should be more effective than most antibiotic cover as they usually get sick in the 4 weeks post arrival. if you are bringing in groups of weanlings esp if mixing groups it's a Huge help.

How's the weanlings this morning?

antibiotic resistance is unlikely in these scenarios, my previous vet was always harking on about antibiotic resistance when we would have pneumonia relapses in the herd

I didn't agree with him and got rid of him and I have a top class vet now, and in the over all scheme of things the vet bill is less => less medicine used

relapses in pneumonia are not a resistance issue it is just the active period of say 10 days has run out, and the same bacteria that started it kicks it all off again

he needs to put all his beasts up the crush and check all temps, and I would be fairly sure that they would be high and needing a shot.

not that temps will tell you if you have all types of pneumonia as some types will not cause high temperatures.



it is too late for the opp to vaccinate his weanlings, they are already exposed to the virus
vaccination should have been done the day of arrival.


I have a question for the opp,
Are the feed intakes down on what they were a week ago?

onyerbikepat

The week just gone was ideal for pneumonia. Hot and humid, ideal conditions for spreading the virus. I see it in the few replacement heifers I kept. I see the snotty noses on the real humid evenings. A good nights frost would be a saviour at this stage.
OP are the weanlings getting meal. Get energy into them, it will help fight it off. Were these weanlings bawling when you bought them?

Dickie10

sorry only back in now. Yes bad news im afraid, dead. It looked to be going well though, went out at 11 oclock last night after vet at 8 and her eyes were open, then at 5 i went out to make sure she was straightrnde up, she was actually chewing the cud and i thought she might make it. at half 8 this morning still alive but had take aa turn for worse, i went in to vets to get the alamycin for the others and the vet for more drugs, she gave me dexathone and marocloybol when i came back 20 mins later, dead, only by a few mins. fairly gutted. i really should haave put everything up yesterday morning.

i gave 30ml of Alamycin to the others and watching like a hawk, il give them another 30 ml each as vet instruccted on friday. she said to give 6 ml of Marocybol to any that looked a bit dicey after friday. hopefully i wont need it.

a few things to clarify and i might gain more advice;
1. the other heifers are not showing any signs of pneumonia at the min, im feeding meal just a dusting to see what is eating and what is not,
2. there in a straw bedded shed, the two ends are open as i have a bull at the other end eating out of a ring feeder so theres a good breeze through the shed.
3. i would be fairly sure some of the weanlings , maybe half were not weaned off the cows when i bought them, a great thing for pneumonia, also some moved twice in 4 days according to cards. this doesnt help a all.
4. they are actually eating more now in the last few days , they seemed not to be used to silage, so they were offered hay and ate straw that i bedded them with for a few days but now all eating a good lot of silage.

5. i keep 15 cows meself and put a lot of effort in to weaning, i try to have them eating meal under a creep wire from early sept to weaning in mid november, then leave them within sight of cows and then a shot of aalamycin before full weaning. thiis has worked well this year with none of my own being held up in thrive, pity these werent done this way.

so that it all now just have to keep a watch like a hawk. thanks to everyone for the advice, seems every month i learn something but this was a killer. im begiing to think i might go for store next year for 1000 euro and turn them quicker. big money though. i like the sound of the CPC powder, what exactly is it?

greysides

Aru wrote: »

Jesus....Nuflor is overkill as a prevention.its a powerful drug and should not be used as a first line of defence.no wonder they are trying to reign in the use of antibiotics on farms!
Has no one heard of antibiotic resistance?!!
what happens when nuflor and other drugs stop working from overuse?.marbocyl(marbofloxacin)is already ineffective in many areas from overuse.it was a wonder drug when first released.it's not uncommon to face resistance issues....add to that the fact that new antibiotic groups have not been discovered in years! We are on a slippery downward slope if things continue as they are.

Pneumonia tends have a large viral element. antibiotics don't treat virus' only bacteria.yes they help in severe cases as bacteria attack virus damaged animals lungs as well but they are not the ideal prevention.
vaccination before arrival would be the ideal to have the antibodies in the system as it's the stress of travel and changes in conditions can bring on the severe illness but even vaccination on the day the weaklings arrive should be more effective than most antibiotic cover as they usually get sick in the 4 weeks post arrival. if you are bringing in groups of weanlings esp if mixing groups it's a Huge help.

I would agree on all counts.

The double dose of Nuflor provides therapeutic levels for five days. Which five days of the susceptibility period do you choose? The instructions that come with it say "The presence of the disease in the herd should be established before preventive treatment."

It has been proven (as would be expected) that the more an antibiotic is used the more resistance is built up to it. This is at farm level.

When new drugs come out, they are expensive so a full course may not be completed. I find that the old drugs are as effective as the newer, presumably due to misuse.

greysides

There's a lot of good advice and common sense on this thread. There's also a few things that make me cringe. While it's great to talk about these things any one with a problem would be advised to seek the advice of their own vet, who knows their herd and set-up and ultimately is the person that will have to deal with it if it gets out of hand.

ferger1

Dickie10 wrote: »

sorry only back in now. Yes bad news im afraid, dead. It looked to be going well though, went out at 11 oclock last night after vet at 8 and her eyes were open, then at 5 i went out to make sure she was straightrnde up, she was actually chewing the cud and i thought she might make it. at half 8 this morning still alive but had take aa turn for worse, i went in to vets to get the alamycin for the others and the vet for more drugs, she gave me dexathone and marocloybol when i came back 20 mins later, dead, only by a few mins. fairly gutted. i really should haave put everything up yesterday morning.

i gave 30ml of Alamycin to the others and watching like a hawk, il give them another 30 ml each as vet instruccted on friday. she said to give 6 ml of Marocybol to any that looked a bit dicey after friday. hopefully i wont need it.

a few things to clarify and i might gain more advice;
1. the other heifers are not showing any signs of pneumonia at the min, im feeding meal just a dusting to see what is eating and what is not,
2. there in a straw bedded shed, the two ends are open as i have a bull at the other end eating out of a ring feeder so theres a good breeze through the shed.
3. i would be fairly sure some of the weanlings , maybe half were not weaned off the cows when i bought them, a great thing for pneumonia, also some moved twice in 4 days according to cards. this doesnt help a all.
4. they are actually eating more now in the last few days , they seemed not to be used to silage, so they were offered hay and ate straw that i bedded them with for a few days but now all eating a good lot of silage.

5. i keep 15 cows meself and put a lot of effort in to weaning, i try to have them eating meal under a creep wire from early sept to weaning in mid november, then leave them within sight of cows and then a shot of aalamycin before full weaning. thiis has worked well this year with none of my own being held up in thrive, pity these werent done this way.

so that it all now just have to keep a watch like a hawk. thanks to everyone for the advice, seems every month i learn something but this was a killer. im begiing to think i might go for store next year for 1000 euro and turn them quicker. big money though. i like the sound of the CPC powder, what exactly is it?

Were you feeding meal prior to the heifer getting sick? Were they bawling when they arrived...sure sign they weren't weaned.

severeoversteer

Aru wrote: »

Jesus....Nuflor is overkill as a prevention.its a powerful drug and should not be used as a first line of defence.no wonder they are trying to reign in the use of antibiotics on farms!
Has no one heard of antibiotic resistance?!!
what happens when nuflor and other drugs stop working from overuse?.marbocyl(marbofloxacin)is already ineffective in many areas from overuse.it was a wonder drug when first released.it's not uncommon to face resistance issues....add to that the fact that new antibiotic groups have not been discovered in years! We are on a slippery downward slope if things continue as they are.

Pneumonia tends have a large viral element. antibiotics don't treat virus' only bacteria.yes they help in severe cases as bacteria attack virus damaged animals lungs as well but they are not the ideal prevention.
vaccination before arrival would be the ideal to have the antibodies in the system as it's the stress of travel and changes in conditions can bring on the severe illness but even vaccination on the day the weaklings arrive should be more effective than most antibiotic cover as they usually get sick in the 4 weeks post arrival. if you are bringing in groups of weanlings esp if mixing groups it's a Huge help.

How's the weanlings this morning?

just in case you didn't believe me about nuflor dosing regimes,
here is an extract from merck website
its a pity you lost the beast when you did as a post mortem would have been helpful
have two vets that I use, and one of them had me barking up the wrong tree altogether recently and I got the other one to come out

he spent 15 mins walking around all the sheds and talking to me and he told me exactly what was wrong and the correct approach was decided
my weanling situation has improved dramatically since then




Dosage and Administration
For treatment of bovine respiratory disease (BRD) and bovine interdigital phlegmon (foot rot): NUFLOR Injectable Solution should be administered by intramuscular injection to cattle at a dose rate of 20 mg/kg body weight (3 mL/100 lbs). A second dose should be administered 48 hours later. Alternatively, NUFLOR Injectable Solution can be administered by a single subcutaneous injection to cattle at a dose rate of 40 mg/kg body weight (6 mL/100 lbs). Do not administer more than 10 mL at each site. The injection should be given only in the neck.
NOTE: Intramuscular injection may result in local tissue reaction which persists beyond 28 days. This may result in trim loss of edible tissue at slaughter. Tissue reaction at injection sites other than the neck is likely to be more severe.
For control of respiratory disease in cattle at high-risk of developing BRD: NUFLOR Injectable Solution should be administered by a single subcutaneous injection to cattle at a dose rate of 40 mg/kg body weight (6 mL/100 lbs). Do not administer more than 10 mL at each site. The injection should be given only in the neck.

micky mouse

Dickie10 wrote: »

sorry only back in now. Yes bad news im afraid, dead. It looked to be going well though, went out at 11 oclock last night after vet at 8 and her eyes were open, then at 5 i went out to make sure she was straightrnde up, she was actually chewing the cud and i thought she might make it. at half 8 this morning still alive but had take aa turn for worse, i went in to vets to get the alamycin for the others and the vet for more drugs, she gave me dexathone and marocloybol when i came back 20 mins later, dead, only by a few mins. fairly gutted. i really should haave put everything up yesterday morning.

i gave 30ml of Alamycin to the others and watching like a hawk, il give them another 30 ml each as vet instruccted on friday. she said to give 6 ml of Marocybol to any that looked a bit dicey after friday. hopefully i wont need it.

a few things to clarify and i might gain more advice;
1. the other heifers are not showing any signs of pneumonia at the min, im feeding meal just a dusting to see what is eating and what is not,
2. there in a straw bedded shed, the two ends are open as i have a bull at the other end eating out of a ring feeder so theres a good breeze through the shed.
3. i would be fairly sure some of the weanlings , maybe half were not weaned off the cows when i bought them, a great thing for pneumonia, also some moved twice in 4 days according to cards. this doesnt help a all.
4. they are actually eating more now in the last few days , they seemed not to be used to silage, so they were offered hay and ate straw that i bedded them with for a few days but now all eating a good lot of silage.

5. i keep 15 cows meself and put a lot of effort in to weaning, i try to have them eating meal under a creep wire from early sept to weaning in mid november, then leave them within sight of cows and then a shot of aalamycin before full weaning. thiis has worked well this year with none of my own being held up in thrive, pity these werent done this way.

so that it all now just have to keep a watch like a hawk. thanks to everyone for the advice, seems every month i learn something but this was a killer. im begiing to think i might go for store next year for 1000 euro and turn them quicker. big money though. i like the sound of the CPC powder, what exactly is it?

whats your thinking giving alamycin to your own weanlings if not sick surely waste of money if you weaning them the way you say,and id never buy a weakling that had movements inside short period of time,as unfortunately you have found out the hard way

Count Mondego

Dickie10 wrote: »

i like the sound of the CPC powder, what exactly is it?

Powder that you spread on the silage for the first few days that the weanlings are in the shed. Tried it a few times and found it sh1t, and expensive. You'd be along way to the price of the vaccine which would be miles better.

follett

Count Mondego wrote: »

Powder that you spread on the silage for the first few days that the weanlings are in the shed. Tried it a few times and found it sh1t, and expensive. You'd be along way to the price of the vaccine which would be miles better.

theres nothing worse than a sick animals then 1 dies, I have a nice blue with joint ill, he got plenty iodine, I am sick of looking at him going around on his nees

Miname

Count Mondego wrote: »

Powder that you spread on the silage for the first few days that the weanlings are in the shed. Tried it a few times and found it sh1t, and expensive. You'd be along way to the price of the vaccine which would be miles better.

It's ctc powder and in fairness it's a great way to blanket fix a pneumonia issue. I'd always mix it through meal but the only downside I find is there's always a few shy eaters.

Dickie10

i give alamycin just as apneumonia/chill cover, its cheap and cheerful if a vet has to caall out its more than the alamycin. it justs seems to get them out of danger

buffalobilly

micky mouse wrote: »

whats your thinking giving alamycin to your own weanlings if not sick surely waste of money if you weaning them the way you say,and id never buy a weakling that had movements inside short period of time,as unfortunately you have found out the hard way

sure if you buy them in some marts you do not know
how long person selling them had them.
It should say on board how long last person
had them

Willfarman

Had a nice char bullock show symtoms of pneumonia last sat. Put him in crush gave him a good shot of oxy tet.
Observed him later trying to drink and putting water through his nose. Vet called. No obvious obstruction in neck. Inflamed raw throat, more injections. Really went backwards Sunday. Vet out again on Monday. Doped him. Hand down neck. Then pipe push down. Blockage well down. Nothing could do. More drugs. He died on Tuesday. Open ended him in knacker expecting plastic or the like and a massive wedge of haylage stuck in gullet. Cost 1070 in October. Gutted but fup it as long as troubles stay at farm gate.

Bigbird1

severeoversteer wrote: »

just in case you didn't believe me about nuflor dosing regimes,
here is an extract from merck website
its a pity you lost the beast when you did as a post mortem would have been helpful
have two vets that I use, and one of them had me barking up the wrong tree altogether recently and I got the other one to come out

he spent 15 mins walking around all the sheds and talking to me and he told me exactly what was wrong and the correct approach was decided
my weanling situation has improved dramatically since then




Dosage and Administration
For treatment of bovine respiratory disease (BRD) and bovine interdigital phlegmon (foot rot): NUFLOR Injectable Solution should be administered by intramuscular injection to cattle at a dose rate of 20 mg/kg body weight (3 mL/100 lbs). A second dose should be administered 48 hours later. Alternatively, NUFLOR Injectable Solution can be administered by a single subcutaneous injection to cattle at a dose rate of 40 mg/kg body weight (6 mL/100 lbs). Do not administer more than 10 mL at each site. The injection should be given only in the neck.
NOTE: Intramuscular injection may result in local tissue reaction which persists beyond 28 days. This may result in trim loss of edible tissue at slaughter. Tissue reaction at injection sites other than the neck is likely to be more severe.
For control of respiratory disease in cattle at high-risk of developing BRD: NUFLOR Injectable Solution should be administered by a single subcutaneous injection to cattle at a dose rate of 40 mg/kg body weight (6 mL/100 lbs). Do not administer more than 10 mL at each site. The injection should be given only in the neck.

What advice did the second vet give you

severeoversteer

Bigbird1 wrote: »

What advice did the second vet give you

well the old vet was taking the approach of throwing alamycin at them all out of face, didn't seem to think about the case at hand, he was busy rushing to next callout and not providing good service

other vet completely diff approach , identified the different types of pneumonia present as there was 3 different types of respiratory infections present in the herd
some of these infections were not treatable type and others were and we set out what drugs we were using and had follow up visits fairly regular to monitor progress

im not going to say any more about what types of drugs used and what strains of BRD I had in the herd as its for the op to get his vet out and decide what is the relevant issues on his farm

Base price

severeoversteer wrote: »

well the old vet was taking the approach of throwing alamycin at them all out of face, didn't seem to think about the case at hand, he was busy rushing to next callout and not providing good service

other vet completely diff approach , identified the different types of pneumonia present as there was 3 different types of respiratory infections present in the herd
some of these infections were not treatable type and others were and we set out what drugs we were using and had follow up visits fairly regular to monitor progress

im not going to say any more about what types of drugs used and what strains of BRD I had in the herd as its for the op to get his vet out and decide what is the relevant issues on his farm

Just wondering how did your vet identify the different types of pneumonia.

severeoversteer

Base price wrote: »

Just wondering how did your vet identify the different types of pneumonia.

he's just a super vet
most lads in the area don't use him as he specialises in pets such as dogs birds cats etc etc

but he has a natural eye for animals in fairness and is willing to talk technical terms to me wheres the other vet would say give him a shot of this and jump in the jeep and fxck off

even by looking at a beast he was able say what was wrong

sorry didn't change years ago as I reckon could have saved me thousands

you name it I think I have encountered almost all strains of BRD, all have different traits and some are manageable but some are savage and brutal with no comeback whatsoever

lenihankevin

He must be some lad to be able to diagnose either pi3, brsv, pasteurella or ibr by just looking at the animals!!

severeoversteer

lenihankevin wrote: »

He must be some lad to be able to diagnose either pi3, brsv, pasteurella or ibr by just looking at the animals!!

believe me there are more things to the whole brd complex than most lads ever come across
have had all the above and more on this farm, even with vaccination with leading vaccines such as bovipast, rispoval intra nasal you name it


have had a number of trouble free years without any issues but have been in the dumps this year with the weanlings, have a handle on it now though with help of the different vet

buying weanlings from a reputable suckler man is worth more than any vaccine will do

ended up buying more than usual in the mart this year as some of the suckler men I buy off have decided to finish some of their weanlings and one man had a glut of heifer calves this year so that's the luck of the draw as I only buy bull weanlings

tanko

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the role of worms in pnuemonia. If a weanling hasn't been treated properly for worms before weaning and starts coughing and spluttering when it gets to its new home and probably isn't vaccinated then the fun really starts.

orm0nd

tanko wrote: »

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the role of worms in pnuemonia. If a weanling hasn't been treated properly for worms before weaning and starts coughing and spluttering when it gets to its new home and probably isn't vaccinated then the fun really starts.

then it's new owner gives it a lungworm dose, to really throw petrol on the fire

Base price

severeoversteer wrote: »

he's just a super vet
most lads in the area don't use him as he specialises in pets such as dogs birds cats etc etc

but he has a natural eye for animals in fairness and is willing to talk technical terms to me wheres the other vet would say give him a shot of this and jump in the jeep and fxck off

even by looking at a beast he was able say what was wrong

sorry didn't change years ago as I reckon could have saved me thousands

you name it I think I have encountered almost all strains of BRD, all have different traits and some are manageable but some are savage and brutal with no comeback whatsoever

A good vet is worth their weight in gold especially one that is familiar with your farm and is willing to work with you. One of the most important relationships on a cattle farm is that between farmer and vet.

onyerbikepat

You have to wonder though - how come it is nearly always young weaned calves that get pneumonia. Nearly 90% of the time anyway. Hardly ever older cows or older bullocks. Is it poorly developed immunity that causes it? I suppose vaccines while still under the cow in dry weather would solve that.
The end of the suckler welfare scheme this year didnt help either. Too many turning up at marts straight off the cow. Some not eating meal either. Madness when you think about it.

tanko

onyerbikepat wrote: »

You have to wonder though - how come it is nearly always young weaned calves that get pneumonia. Nearly 90% of the time anyway. Hardly ever older cows or older bullocks. Is it poorly developed immunity that causes it? I suppose vaccines while still under the cow in dry weather would solve that.
The end of the suckler welfare scheme this year didnt help either. Too many turning up at marts straight off the cow. Some not eating meal either. Madness when you think about it.

Lots of reasons for pnuemonia in freshly weaned calves, stress of separation from the cow, change of diet from grass and milk to nuts and silage, not properly treated for worms, putting calves in sheds when the tanks are empty means there are draughts coming up through the slats.
Vaccinating weanlings is money well spent IMO.
The funny thing about weanling sales is that buyers in marts don't seem to give a fiddlers whether calves are weaned or not. They will pay more for a calf straight off the cow, roaring it's head off which still looks good with a nice shine of its hair than a calf which is properly weaned for a month or so but has failed a bit and doesn't have a shiny coat.
Unfortunately it doesn't pay farmers to wean calves for sale, it actually costs them money.

valtra2

Well I wean 4 to 6 weeks and feed meal to all weanlings and bring them to mart and have seen weanlings just took off cows still shining and making in as much or more money than mine so sometimes you wonder why bother wean and set them back that few weeks for no gain.

Count Mondego

onyerbikepat wrote: »

You have to wonder though - how come it is nearly always young weaned calves that get pneumonia. Nearly 90% of the time anyway. Hardly ever older cows or older bullocks. Is it poorly developed immunity that causes it? I suppose vaccines while still under the cow in dry weather would solve that.
The end of the suckler welfare scheme this year didnt help either. Too many turning up at marts straight off the cow. Some not eating meal either. Madness when you think about it.

I think that cattle have very underdeveloped lungs compared to say horses. For the same size their lungs are a third/ quarter of the size of a horse's. Any kind of obstruction such as coughing up lungworms will put enormous strain on the lungs. Probably eases as the animal gets bigger as the lungs are bigger too.

The man in red and black

onyerbikepat wrote: »

You have to wonder though - how come it is nearly always young weaned calves that get pneumonia. Nearly 90% of the time anyway. Hardly ever older cows or older bullocks. Is it poorly developed immunity that causes it? I suppose vaccines while still under the cow in dry weather would solve that.
The end of the suckler welfare scheme this year didnt help either. Too many turning up at marts straight off the cow. Some not eating meal either. Madness when you think about it.

The key is stress. They are under the stress/energy requirement of some or all of the following: growing, weaning, transport, bullying, feed restriction if moved around a couple of times in a few days, parasites, castration, dehorning, nutritional deficiencies, cold weather. Exposure to respiratory pathogens at a time of multiple stresses is tough on any animal but when they have too many their immune system cannot compensate and you get disease outbreaks

Think of an older animal not being moved, no longer growing, good immunity to parasites, not being bullied for feed, not being transported... This animal is under very little stress. In younger weanlings stress is the big problem. That's what the suckler welfare scheme wanted to help with. That's why it had so many rules for separating castration, dehorning etc from before or after weaning.

On an aside I believe a common cause for antibiotic failure +/- future development of resistance is often not the wrong antibiotic but not treating for long enough or not treating with the right dosages. If the weight is estimated incorrectly and the animal is under dosed, or you try and cut dosages by a few mls because Draxxin, Zuprevo, Nuflor etc is so expensive, the antibiotic can't be effective and is a recipe for resistance building up. I know I've seen plenty of people shocked when you tell them what volume of Nuflor to give a larger animal. Nothing you can do but stick to what the label says.