Are Irish men too subservient? - See Mod warning in post 52

HalloweenJack

I know from observing my friends, it's the ones that never left home for any considerable amount of time that, when they got into relationships in their early 20's, they tended to rely on their GFs as surrogate mothers. It's disturbing to watch.

But that's the only thing I can come up that possibly has anything to fo with the whole "Irish men subservient" angle as I don't think it's really there. And I have seen relationships where women are in charge in other countries too. It certainly doesn't just happen in Ireland.

Tarzana2

newport2 wrote: »

I remember having a discussion with one of my friends and she was pointing out that, when considering dating, there were three types of guys. i) The ones that wouldn't budge on anything and could not be negotiated with, ii) the ones who stood their ground but could be negotiated with, and finally iii) what she regarded as pushovers, who said yes to everything. She pointed out which category the people we knew fell into and I could see where she was coming from. In a lot of cases they were this way with other men too. She said the only type of guy she would consider dating is ii) the one who stood his ground but could be negotiated with. I think the guys who allow themselves to become totally henpecked fall under type iii).

I'd be with your friend there, no.2 all the way. Pushovers are really hard to respect, but so are obdurate feckers!

In a relationship, both people need to make compromises and the occasional sacrifice. It's a good relationship test actually. Do I care enough to make that compromise? If not, maybe the relationship isn't right?

eviltwin

I consider my relationship to be equal. I know some of my husband's single friends used to think he was whipped just because he was no longer available to go out every time they rang but a mortgage, kids and having to get up for work tend to do that. Priorities change especially as you settle down, get a place together, have kids. Women can be just as bad but I don't see that as people being controlled, I just see it as part of the aging process. Even if I had the means to be out every night I wouldn't want to.

Potatoeman

Some of its cultural. I know eastern Europeans that think Irisk guys are too passive. Nagging in public is seen as showing disrespect to them and I do agree with that as no one wants to be around an argueing couple. For them they would not argue in public.

They seem more traditional. There are other trade offs as the guy is expected to pay for dates etc.
A Russian woman at work even said she thought a man pushing a pram was unmanly and would not let her Irish partner do it.

Jawgap

Potatoeman wrote: »

Some of its cultural. I know eastern Europeans that think Irisk guys are too passive. Nagging in public is seen as showing disrespect to them and I do agree with that as no one wants to be around and argueing couple. For them they would not argue in public.

They seem more traditional. There are other trade offs as the guy is expected to pay for dates etc.
A Russian woman at work even said she thought a man pushing a pram was unmanly and would not let her Irish partner do it.

It's interesting - my Dad one day soon after my first son was born said he was 'jealous' of me. Because in his day it would be unheard of for a man to take his kid for a walk in the pram, change him, feed him etc

If it's 'unmanly' in Russia then I feel sorry for them.

Potatoeman

Jawgap wrote: »

It's interesting - my Dad one day soon after my first son was born said he was 'jealous' of me. Because in his day it would be unheard of for a man to take his kid for a walk in the pram, change him, feed him etc

If it's 'unmanly' in Russia then I feel sorry for them.

I dont know what she intends to do when or if she has more kids. It seems a bit impracticle and she is working so its not like she is a stay at home mom.

Tarzana2

eviltwin wrote: »

Even if I had the means to be out every night I wouldn't want to.

I'm 30 and I'd keel over if I went back my 18 year old self's or even early 20s self's social life.

efb

I feel some men over dominate their partners and some woman over dominate theirs

OnTheCouch

Jingle_Balls wrote: »

I've been in relationships where the guy was 'under my thumb,' but I wasn't trying to have them 'whipped.' As Wibbs put it, they were insecure and basically left all the decision making to me. One used to even ask what he should wear!

I hate relationships like that. They absolutely looked whipped to the outside world, but I was always encouraging them to go out, see their friends, have a drink, whatever. They told their friends they could not go out because of me. :pac:

May I ask, why do you think you were initially drawn to these insecure men in the first place? Not to pry or anything, but I'm always very interested to hear from a woman's point of view if it was a case of the person hiding his flaws and seeming charming, her maybe wanting to be able to change him, or simply the physical attraction was so strong that at the start things went very smoothly? Of course, many insecure men find themselves in relationships one way or another anyway. It seems you have learnt your lesson now on the other hand in your current relationship, so I'm just curious to see 'what went wrong' if you like.

newport2 wrote: »

I remember having a discussion with one of my friends and she was pointing out that, when considering dating, there were three types of guys. i) The ones that wouldn't budge on anything and could not be negotiated with, ii) the ones who stood their ground but could be negotiated with, and finally iii) what she regarded as pushovers, who said yes to everything. She pointed out which category the people we knew fell into and I could see where she was coming from. In a lot of cases they were this way with other men too. She said the only type of guy she would consider dating is ii) the one who stood his ground but could be negotiated with. I think the guys who allow themselves to become totally henpecked fall under type iii).

Yeah that's probably fairly accurate. Both type i and iii are probably insecure, but in different ways. Although I think all men can see how easy it is to fall into one or the other, depending if you tend to be the more reserved or outspoken type. Type ii is of course ideal in any relationship, but achieving it is not always easy.

Hibernosaur

Jawgap wrote: »

It's interesting - my Dad one day soon after my first son was born said he was 'jealous' of me. Because in his day it would be unheard of for a man to take his kid for a walk in the pram, change him, feed him etc

If it's 'unmanly' in Russia then I feel sorry for them.

Well my Russian missus has no problem with me pushing a pram!

RDM_83 again

Surely a lot of what seems subservience is just going along for the sake of peace or because the option is there, I know that might sound bad but say the example of "what should I wear" posted earlier, to me thats not looking for approval thats a guy that if he was single would probably throw on any old stuff but because the GF is there he asks for a second opinion.
In terms of going along for the sake of peace say its to do with different priorities to use a stereotype if a man can't care either way what state the house is in is it subservience to clean because the GF likes a cleaner place? I don't think you can see subservience until it involves something that actually matters to that person rather than something they are ambivalent too.

the evasion_kid

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Surely a lot of what seems subservience is just going along for the sake of peace or because the option is there, I know that might sound bad but say the example of "what should I wear" posted earlier, to me thats not looking for approval thats a guy that if he was single would probably throw on any old stuff but because the GF is there he asks for a second opinion.
In terms of going along for the sake of peace say its to do with different priorities to use a stereotype if a man can't care either way what state the house is in is it subservience to clean because the GF likes a cleaner place? I don't think you can see subservience until it involves something that actually matters to that person rather than something they are ambivalent too.

I've seen a lot of men down through the years doing this hell I've done it myself just to avoid confrontation or nagging its hard to hit a middle ground.I've also been up against the women who use the whole s**t test thing,you're better off running a mile from them cause at that stage you're no better than them dogs you see at dog shows with the owner running beside it as it jumps and goes through obstacles!

Tombi!

A lot of it is down to individual experience.
two couples that grew up in the same road could have very different relationships.

I definitely do think that being controlled is never good. Don't mix that up with being naturally submissive. If you're submissive and happy with your partner being dominant then there's no issue.

Culture can't be blamed for everything. Pretty much my life for 18 onwards was seeing women at clubs. Both couples getting incredibly drunk. That was the regular thing I'd see and experienced once or twice but I couldn't be with a woman whose idea of fun was getting wasted every time we go out and then only ever wanting to go out to pubs or clubs

That culture is what I've seen but I wouldn't like it. Culture might influence what people want in a relationship but it doesn't mean everyone of that culture wants the same thing.

MRedd

yes they are, like my Eastern European friend said "Irish men are like our woman and Irish woman are like our men."

UnitedWeStand

Find most of this is rubbish. One day you'll see posts about how women like a man who lays down the law so to say. The next you see how sweet and caring trumps it. Truth is as long as you're not a sexist ass who puts down your girlfriend they'll like you unless they've their own issues.

In my experience being nice, good manners, humble and sweet to a girl has gotten me pretty far.