Still making money in Beef

AP2014

Well lads, just thought I would give a quick update on 2014. Despite what others and what I thought myself this turned out to be a great year. My average profit on bullocks went to €300 a head.

They weighted exceptionally this year. I did hold for a few extra weeks because I had grass but got caught with a wet week or two so took back some bales from a neighbour who I sold too. Well worth it though. To be honest I was shocked at the prices stores were making.

I'm taking some advice from lads here and next year I plan to sell less silage and throw on some extra fertilizer. I'm also in the middle of sorting out some farm insurance. I may look at GLAS but not sure what I could do to get into it. Hopefully weanling prices are as cheap this March as they were last March as well.

Receipts are available on request. Best of luck to everyone for 2015.

Coonagh

AP2014 wrote: »

Well lads, just thought I would give a quick update on 2014. Despite what others and what I thought myself this turned out to be a great year. My average profit on bullocks went to €300 a head.

They weighted exceptionally this year. I did hold for a few extra weeks because I had grass but got caught with a wet week or two so took back some bales from a neighbour who I sold too. Well worth it though. To be honest I was shocked at the prices stores were making.

I'm taking some advice from lads here and next year I plan to sell less silage and throw on some extra fertilizer. I'm also in the middle of sorting out some farm insurance. I may look at GLAS but not sure what I could do to get into it. Hopefully weanling prices are as cheap this March as they were last March as well.

Receipts are available on request. Best of luck to everyone for 2015.

Week done! The Blue Peter badge is in the post.........

AP2014

Coonagh wrote: »

Week done! The Blue Peter badge is in the post.........

It was a year not a week

kingstown

AP2014 Your post earlier in the year was one of the most enjoyable I read on here all year, you held firm whilst being put under a lot of pressure...!
Glad to hear you made a good return this year.

Be sure to insure the place, cut the hedges and do a little upgrade in the fencing again in 2015, spread a bit of Fertiliser in spring and hopefully you’ll have a good year again..:cool:

keep going

In thepast twelve months I havebeen privy to the figures in 3 beef farmers setups .two are just running a few cattle on the land on a stoc king rate of roughly 1 to 1.5 per hectare and they averaged about 300 per head per year profit.another ran 2.5 per hactare if not even more and did alot of work and suffered alot during feed crisis and is struggling to get to 100 per head per year..it seems ap could be right and there is money to be made per head if you have access to free land and dont over stock and have a little luck in buying and selling

_Brian

keep going wrote: »

In thepast twelve months I havebeen privy to the figures in 3 beef farmers setups .two are just running a few cattle on the land on a stoc king rate of roughly 1 to 1.5 per hectare and they averaged about 300 per head per year profit.another ran 2.5 per hactare if not even more and did alot of work and suffered alot during feed crisis and is struggling to get to 100 per head per year..it seems ap could be right and there is money to be made per head if you have access to free land and dont over stock and have a little luck in buying and selling

Where is this "free land" you speak off ?? Do I put my name on a list or something, and your saying it never needs topping, draining, reseeding, hedges cut, mole ploughing, spraying, it being completely free, damn we're getting the hard end of things here having to splash out on land.

Are you not saying that if you pretend to yourself that you have no costs, and animals never ever die - that its easy to make money in beef.. good luck with that as a long term business plan !!

Coonagh

There is one thing missing from this debate and it occurred to me last year when this was going on and that's the fact that beef farming can return a profit but what it cannot do is provide an opportunity to expand your business or provide a second income so that one of your children could join you in it

Count Mondego

Howya AP,

Is the 300,a head including the SFP of 450/ha or purely on the beef enterprise?

Bullocks

Coonagh wrote: »

There is one thing missing from this debate and it occurred to me last year when this was going on and that's the fact that beef farming can return a profit but what it cannot do is provide an opportunity to expand your business or provide a second income so that one of your children could join you in it

That's it in a nutshell I think . Unless you have massive numbers and a lot of land I don't think there is enough out of it to reinvest in the farm when it comes to suckler's or beef .
Especially if you want to put money in your pocket every year

AP2014

Count Mondego wrote: »

Howya AP,

Is the 300,a head including the SFP of 450/ha or purely on the beef enterprise?

Purely on animal. Now I got them decent price in March and was one of the first to admit I would be down on other years. But I had a great year for grass and the trade for stores in November was unreal. I almost feel I let a few go abit cheap.

It was crazy cause this was in the middle of the worse year for beef and the crisis etc. I am aware not to get carried away as it maybe fellas like myself taking the hit next year.

AP2014

kingstown wrote: »

AP2014 Your post earlier in the year was one of the most enjoyable I read on here all year, you held firm whilst being put under a lot of pressure...!
Glad to hear you made a good return this year.

Be sure to insure the place, cut the hedges and do a little upgrade in the fencing again in 2015, spread a bit of Fertiliser in spring and hopefully you’ll have a good year again..:cool:

That's the plan....if I cut some hedges it will cover the fencing as well

Coonagh

Your right November store trade was very strong, the first sign of an improvement in beef price and lads went feckin mad, made no sense. But then again when did it ever?

Timmaay

Bullocks wrote: »

That's it in a nutshell I think . Unless you have massive numbers and a lot of land I don't think there is enough out of it to reinvest in the farm when it comes to suckler's or beef .
Especially if you want to put money in your pocket every year

If it's a loss making enterprise at small numbers then won't it making bigger overall losses at massive numbers and lots of land???

Coonagh

Timmaay wrote: »

If it's a loss making enterprise at small numbers then won't it making bigger overall losses at massive numbers and lots of land???

In fairness not all beef men are making a loss but most are just breaking even. The large scale beef men have accepted that they are in a very low margin business and have chased high output in order to make a living

893bet

_Brian wrote: »

Where is this "free land" you speak off ?? Do I put my name on a list or something, and your saying it never needs topping, draining, reseeding, hedges cut, mole ploughing, spraying, it being completely free, damn we're getting the hard end of things here having to splash out on land.

Are you not saying that if you pretend to yourself that you have no costs, and animals never ever die - that its easy to make money in beef.. good luck with that as a long term business plan !!

x 2

Also your "real profit" is how much extra you have made over what you would have made if you just leased out the land instead.

AP2014

_Brian wrote: »

Where is this "free land" you speak off ?? Do I put my name on a list or something, and your saying it never needs topping, draining, reseeding, hedges cut, mole ploughing, spraying, it being completely free, damn we're getting the hard end of things here having to splash out on land.

Are you not saying that if you pretend to yourself that you have no costs, and animals never ever die - that its easy to make money in beef.. good luck with that as a long term business plan !!

I maybe wrong but I think the poster meant free land as in you own it not lease it. That certainly is my case anyway. I can't see how lads can make money out of leasing land.

As for topping, hedge cutting, mole ploughing etc these are personal choices and lads can do them if they wish. I don't see them increasing my profit hence I don't do them. Je lads around my way wouldn't have heard of mole ploughing. Some lads like topping, keeps them busy and they like the driving and burning diesel too.

I personally have had good luck with no moralities. I have a small operation so a loss would really hurt profit margins. I do see a lot of lads over stocking, neglecting animals, suckler guys with crazy size calves and feel alot of mortality is through bad farming. Same guys always seem to lose a few.

keep going

_Brian wrote: »

Where is this "free land" you speak off ?? Do I put my name on a list or something, and your saying it never needs topping, draining, reseeding, hedges cut, mole ploughing, spraying, it being completely free, damn we're getting the hard end of things here having to splash out on land.

Are you not saying that if you pretend to yourself that you have no costs, and animals never ever die - that its easy to make money in beef.. good luck with that as a long term business plan !!

Ok land you own.im just telling what I saw happening.these guys put out very little manure, do a little topping no maintenance bar the odd post around the boundry and sell off some excess grass.no matter where you are in thecountry you know fellas like these and theydont want to lease even if they got 500 an acre.all alot these guys want is to make a profit on their animals which they do and it makes them happy for a few days looking at the cheque.in reality they are farming rach style

Coonagh

keep going wrote: »

Ok land you own.im just telling what I saw happening.these guys put out very little manure, do a little topping no maintenance bar the odd post around the boundry and sell off some excess grass.no matter where you are in thecountry you know fellas like these and theydont want to lease even if they got 500 an acre.all alot these guys want is to make a profit on their animals which they do and it makes them happy for a few days looking at the cheque.in reality they are farming rach style

In reality they are deluding themselves. FFs have ye not heard of opportunity cost include that and all them lads are just busy fools.

AP2014

Coonagh wrote: »

In reality they are deluding themselves. FFs have ye not heard of opportunity cost include that and all them lads are just busy fools.

I think the idea is they are not busy and are selling the silage to the busy fools. While having a nice SFP and making a few quid on cattle.

Coonagh

AP2014 wrote: »

I think the idea is they are not busy and are selling the silage to the busy fools. While having a nice SFP and making a few quid on cattle.[/quote

I've heard that argument a lot and I have to call BS, if they were to put in the amount of money they were to get if they leased the farm as a cost. Their return would be marginal. Not including an opportunity cost is like saying your asset has no value!

AP2014

Coonagh wrote: »

I've heard that argument a lot and I have to call BS, if they were to put in the amount of money they were to get if they leased the farm as a cost. Their return would be marginal. Not including an opportunity cost is like saying your asset has no value!

The asset has hugh value, especially if you sell or lease long term. The dogs on the street know that. But the method described by keep going is one I operate myself. I make a tidy little profit from selling silage, a few cattle and my SFP. More so then leasing.

As for busy fools, it more a hubby for a few hours at the wkd for myself. Some neighbours spend more time topping

Greengrass1

Ap all this is your hobby farm not being mean but that's how I see it.
Your not relying on it as an income which is fair enough.
But you put yourself in someone else's shoes who needs a living off it and they couldn't survive

keep going

Coonagh wrote: »

In reality they are deluding themselves. FFs have ye not heard of opportunity cost include that and all them lads are just busy fools.

They are deluding nobody and are operating a very labour and aside from land value capital efficient system but on each individual animal they are making a nice profit because they spend fall.the other man that I am aware of his figures is making roughly the same per acre but is buying silage ,ration, ferti, and does alot of reseeding but overall unfortunately isnt making alot more profit

AP2014

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Ap all this is your hobby farm not being mean but that's how I see it.
Your not relying on it as an income which is fair enough.
But you put yourself in someone else's shoes who needs a living off it and they couldn't survive

Of course they couldn't, I farm 30 acres!!!! Are most guys not hobby farming at this stage? The majority have off farm jobs. Now what I see them doing is invest very poorly in farm and work like dogs at it and claim to making no money.

Or are they telling porkies? I don't rely on it to make a living of course not and have never claimed to. I claim it gives me a nice few extra quid outside my job at something I enjoy doing.

Cattlepen

Timmaay wrote: »

If it's a loss making enterprise at small numbers then won't it making bigger overall losses at massive numbers and lots of land???

I couldn't agree with you more. I have big numbers of sheep and cattle and all my own land and if you try to do it right there is nothing in it. You will find it next to impossible not to eat into your sfp. Starting to become a joke at this stage. Angus scheme, Hereford scheme quality assurance will all make no difference. If you had loans to pay you would be truely screwed. Do the the sums boys and add it all up. Busy fools is a very true phrase

eorna

Profit is a relative concept.. I know lads who are understocked who sell stock at good price and are delighted for a while...in their eyes they are doing well.. But a lot of them same lads dont really think of expenses like diesel, insurances, taxing, servicing and repairs of machinery/ jeepsetc..and while they are doing well being understocked keeping meal/ fertiliser down, still there are a lot expenses in a farm which need to be accounted for and not sure if they do

Coonagh

keep going wrote: »

They are deluding nobody and are operating a very labour and aside from land value capital efficient system but on each individual animal they are making a nice profit because they spend fall.the other man that I am aware of his figures is making roughly the same per acre but is buying silage ,ration, ferti, and does alot of reseeding but overall unfortunately isnt making alot more profit

I'd be surprised if there making any profit at all, are they including an opportunity cost for their land or are they renting it/paying back bank repayments on it?

onyerbikepat

I think it all boils down to the price of beef in the factories. When prices are high, it makes sense to push output per acre, fertiliser, lime, reseeding, topping, it all gives a return. When prices fall, it's the opposite, those with the lowest costs, even if extensive, will make the most money.

OP, not to burst your bubble, but you have to look at things over 5 years at least, to see if a system makes sense. You also have to include all your costs. Otherwise, you are deludng yourself.

TUBBY

If you are store to beef, your nett profit Imo is selling price measured against buying back price and expenses also.
reason i say this is that you could buy cheap and sell dear. Makes the thing look very good but if ya have to turn round and pay big money back then it is a "false" profit effectively and next years profit looks bad. Doing it my way normalises the prices so gives more representative picture.

this is just my way of doing it ap. Not saying your way is wrong.

Farmer Pudsey

AP2014 wrote: »

Purely on animal. Now I got them decent price in March and was one of the first to admit I would be down on other years. But I had a great year for grass and the trade for stores in November was unreal. I almost feel I let a few go abit cheap.

It was crazy cause this was in the middle of the worse year for beef and the crisis etc. I am aware not to get carried away as it maybe fellas like myself taking the hit next year.

As a finisher this is one of the poorest years I have encountered. Only fairy good thing was 350-450kg FR stores were not a rob this fall. They were not cheap either but not crazy money like your store. Also bough stores in June that were value,

Coonagh wrote: »

Your right November store trade was very strong, the first sign of an improvement in beef price and lads went feckin mad, made no sense. But then again when did it ever?

I think a lot of finishers are being burnt at present as they sell cattle bought in September. Not sure when it will change but hopefully glut continues at this stage until late winter.

Coonagh wrote: »

In reality they are deluding themselves. FFs have ye not heard of opportunity cost include that and all them lads are just busy fools.

WTF is opportunity cost. If you sell the farm do you invest in Stock and shares, houses or buy a hotel. I think some ads get all caught up in opportunity cost.

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Ap all this is your hobby farm not being mean but that's how I see it.
Your not relying on it as an income which is fair enough.
But you put yourself in someone else's shoes who needs a living off it and they couldn't survive

The reality is that most lifestock farmers are unwilling to accept that they would be better off not renting land taking a part time job and farming only owned land. What is worse is the stupid lads that were renting without Maps.

I think too many lads are too big to be seen having a day job and farming.

Coonagh

Pudsey you don't have to sell the farm, but the money that your farm could realise if leased should be considered.

I realise that in 2015 you need to farm all your land in order to secure your entitlements going forward but from 2016 it should be considered

Coonagh

AP2014 wrote: »

Of course they couldn't, I farm 30 acres!!!! Are most guys not hobby farming at this stage? The majority have off farm jobs. Now what I see them doing is invest very poorly in farm and work like dogs at it and claim to making no money.

Or are they telling porkies? I don't rely on it to make a living of course not and have never claimed to. I claim it gives me a nice few extra quid outside my job at something I enjoy doing.

Out of interest Ap how many cattle are you running on the 30 acres?

onyerbikepat

Opertunity cost -
Farmer A - Buys calves, sells as weanlings. Profit 150 per acre.
Farmer B - Buys expensive 24month continentals, sells circa 30 moinths. Profit also 150 per acre.

Farmer B could switch to calves and maybe buy more land with the money. Opertunity costs are real. Companies for example hate to see money tied up in stock. Minimal stock levels, all the way.

Farmer Pudsey

Coonagh wrote: »

Pudsey you don't have to sell the farm, but the money that your farm could realise if leased should be considered.

I realise that in 2015 you need to farm all your land in order to secure your entitlements going forward but from 2016 it should be considered

Not if you were drawing SFP, REPS and DA, farmers were not allowed to draw same and rent. Yes from 2015 this may change however you will still need to farm for DA and GLAS (if it is any good)

Also you have to factor in 2020 when next review happens will Commission again close door on leased SFP. That risk has to be factored in as well. Leasing is not risk free as tenant may damage overall value of property.

I bought a farm in late 2002, today it is worth about 60% more than I paid for it at least. Hard to see rented land increasing in value like that. I am often appauled by what happens to leased and rented land.

Brass Tag

onyerbikepat wrote: »

Opertunity cost -
Farmer A - Buys calves, sells as weanlings. Profit 150 per acre.
Farmer B - Buys expensive 24month continentals, sells circa 30 moinths. Profit also 150 per acre.

Farmer B could switch to calves and maybe buy more land with the money. Opertunity costs are real. Companies for example hate to see money tied up in stock. Minimal stock levels, all the way.

Farmer B would need a lot more calves to stock his land than 24 month animals.
Money freed up mightn't add up to as much as you think.

mf240

You can twist figures and stats to make them mean anything you want.

Opportunity cost - well fair enough but if someone dosent want to rent it out then they dont need to consider it really.

Your own time- sure he might as well be looking at the cattle and doing a few jobs at tge weekend as fluting around the shops or playing golf.

He bought the cattle for x sold them for y takes out cost actully incured (the ones you can find in the cheque book stubs. ) not the coulda woulda shoulda costs that only exist on paper. And whats left is profit simples.

Farmer Pudsey

TUBBY wrote: »

If you are store to beef, your nett profit Imo is selling price measured against buying back price and expenses also.
reason i say this is that you could buy cheap and sell dear. Makes the thing look very good but if ya have to turn round and pay big money back then it is a "false" profit effectively and next years profit looks bad. Doing it my way normalises the prices so gives more representative picture.

this is just my way of doing it ap. Not saying your way is wrong.

Technically for summer grazing you are incorrect. As all transactions are in one year. Over last 3 years summer grazers are the most profitable business especially low cost operators. We have to grit out teeth and accept it. Most small time operators lowly stocked at 1.2LU/acre ( equivlent to 2 yearlings/acre) have a gross margin of over 500/acre, I have been thinking there day will come when they get roasted for last 18 months but they are surviving.

In my system I buy as I sell but only time it was really profitable is when I had dairy bred bulls in system. There absence is killing system. Only good thing is I have kept away from them this year. but I am hoping present excessive kill will continue until March/April.

Hopefully from Jume on it will be happy days.

Blackgrass

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Technically for summer grazing you are incorrect. As all transactions are in one year. Over last 3 years summer grazers are the most profitable business especially low cost operators. We have to grit out teeth and accept it. Most small time operators lowly stocked at 1.2LU/acre ( equivlent to 2 yearlings/acre) have a gross margin of over 500/acre, I have been thinking there day will come when they get roasted for last 18 months but they are surviving.

In my system I buy as I sell but only time it was really profitable is when I had dairy bred bulls in system. There absence is killing system. Only good thing is I have kept away from them this year. but I am hoping present excessive kill will continue until March/April.

Hopefully from Jume on it will be happy days.

Would you be able to look up no's born in say Jan 2013 and guestimate that x% of them will make slaughter but lets say March 2015 or how do you pick what month to buy and sell? Is there anyway to predict this even or that all in ICBF database but that kind of knoowledge is abit dangerous?
Basically if you decifer what i'm asking is, how do you predict trends of months with high-low kill? Experience/ doing homework of weekly kills/births registered or?
You seem to be quite straght talking to the point with facts and figures!.

Brass Tag

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Technically for summer grazing you are incorrect. As all transactions are in one year. Over last 3 years summer grazers are the most profitable business especially low cost operators. We have to grit out teeth and accept it. Most small time operators lowly stocked at 1.2LU/acre ( equivlent to 2 yearlings/acre) have a gross margin of over 500/acre, I have been thinking there day will come when they get roasted for last 18 months but they are surviving.

In my system I buy as I sell but only time it was really profitable is when I had dairy bred bulls in system. There absence is killing system. Only good thing is I have kept away from them this year. but I am hoping present excessive kill will continue until March/April.

Hopefully from Jume on it will be happy days.

Was in that game many years ago. Some good years but some disasters as well.
Biggest problem was buying in TB at the time. If you got locked up it made a potentially good year a bad one.
But unlike the OP I could never ever get away with almost zero inputs. For example fencing! Buying in a collection of animals from various sources usually means a percentage of wildish cattle or a few that insist the neighbours have nicer grass and go to investigate.
Buying those in spring and putting straight to grass automatically means a few evenings a week searching for a few, if you are not well fenced to start with and you put in an effort to keep it maintained.

TUBBY

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Technically for summer grazing you are incorrect. As all transactions are in one year. Over last 3 years summer grazers are the most profitable business especially low cost operators. We have to grit out teeth and accept it. Most small time operators lowly stocked at 1.2LU/acre ( equivlent to 2 yearlings/acre) have a gross margin of over 500/acre, I have been thinking there day will come when they get roasted for last 18 months but they are surviving.

In my system I buy as I sell but only time it was really profitable is when I had dairy bred bulls in system. There absence is killing system. Only good thing is I have kept away from them this year. but I am hoping present excessive kill will continue until March/April.

Hopefully from Jume on it will be happy days.

i forgot his system was summer grazing. When selling and buying back, it is more corect to work as i had said.

sh1tstirrer

I don't get this opertunity cost you either rent your land or farm it, if you farm it you cannot rent it and vice versa so how do you use the rent as a cost?

Ap you are referring to gross profit which is not really profit.

eric prydz

Well I for one lost a fortune on beef cattle this year and im not the only one judgeing by the crowds picketing outside the factory,but that's the system im in and chopping and changing at this stage will even lose me more money so il stay as I am and hopefully beef will rise and allow me to make a proper living.

Op you seem to be doing your sums on the back of a cigarette packet though I would like to see how you got on in 2012 and what is your plan if you get struck down with tb before you can sell your cattle ?? and what happens if you get docked on your sfp for refusing to maintain your hedges and fences?

Farmer Pudsey

eric prydz wrote: »

Well I for one lost a fortune on beef cattle this year and im not the only one judgeing by the crowds picketing outside the factory,but that's the system im in and chopping and changing at this stage will even lose me more money so il stay as I am and hopefully beef will rise and allow me to make a proper living.

Op you seem to be doing your sums on the back of a cigarette packet though I would like to see how you got on in 2012 and what is your plan if you get struck down with tb before you can sell your cattle ?? and what happens if you get docked on your sfp for refusing to maintain your hedges and fences?

Maybe we should get hsi 2008 figures as well. TBH his buying and selling prices are not extraordinary. Chances of having TB with young cattle is minimum. The majority of farmers that get caught with TB are farmers with aged cattle usually cows. It is still a risk but very low risk.

I have never heard of a farmers being penalised for bad fences if there was I know lots of canditates. OP is doing nothing extraordinary he is just a trader that at present is making money. His costs are lower than they should be but that is because he is lowly stocked and not putting back enough nutrients at present. However as I said earlier summer graziers are the only ones making money this year.

eric prydz

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Maybe we should get hsi 2008 figures as well. TBH his buying and selling prices are not extraordinary. Chances of having TB with young cattle is minimum. The majority of farmers that get caught with TB are farmers with aged cattle usually cows. It is still a risk but very low risk.

I have never heard of a farmers being penalised for bad fences if there was I know lots of canditates. OP is doing nothing extraordinary he is just a trader that at present is making money. His costs are lower than they should be but that is because he is lowly stocked and not putting back enough nutrients at present. However as I said earlier summer graziers are the only ones making money this year.

Well first of all I compare my accounts over a few years because every year isn't the same and try and average them over 3 years to try and see where im going I must be the biggest fool ever.:rolleyes:
Every summer grazeing man ive spoken to in the last while are all saying that they've lost over 100 euros per animal over the last year and they cant all be telling lies and why isn't everyone not at the same if its so profitable:rolleyes:
I was often caught with cattle with tb that I bought in I don't know what planet your on if you think its a low risk :rolleyes: also you can lose a percentage of your sfp if you don't believe in topping or maintaining hedges fences or your farm in general:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

greenfield21

eric prydz wrote: »

Well first of all I compare my accounts over a few years because every year isn't the same and try and average them over 3 years to try and see where im going I must be the biggest fool ever.:rolleyes:
Every summer grazeing man ive spoken to in the last while are all saying that they've lost over 100 euros per animal over the last year and they cant all be telling lies and why isn't everyone not at the same if its so profitable:rolleyes:
I was often caught with cattle with tb that I bought in I don't know what planet your on if you think its a low risk :rolleyes: also you can lose a percentage of your sfp if you don't believe in topping or maintaining hedges fences or your farm in general:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Don't start this argument again. He's probably on free draining fertile soil, probably in a large block with very little work to it.

AP2014

eric prydz wrote: »

Well I for one lost a fortune on beef cattle this year and im not the only one judgeing by the crowds picketing outside the factory,but that's the system im in and chopping and changing at this stage will even lose me more money so il stay as I am and hopefully beef will rise and allow me to make a proper living.

Op you seem to be doing your sums on the back of a cigarette packet though I would like to see how you got on in 2012 and what is your plan if you get struck down with tb before you can sell your cattle ?? and what happens if you get docked on your sfp for refusing to maintain your hedges and fences?

Hi, Farmer Pudsey beat me too it but I will answer anyway. I assure you I cost EVERYTHING down to the last cent. While I keep costs to a minimum that is my choice and helps my profit margins.

The only thing I had to do for SFP and DAS every year is apply online at no cost and keep a minimum amount of stock for 7 months. Not quite sure what fences or hedge cutting rules apply. But to obtain my herd number a department inspector called to check fences and crush and he was happy enough. Strangely the only ones who aren't are posters on here because I don't have hugh fencing costs each year. My neighbours are fine as well, I actually get visits from stock from one of them. He is a bit of a disaster at fencing but a sound fella.

On 2012 it was one of my best years only topped by this year. I actually put up some receipts for that year. On the TB thing I am powerless but aren't must farmers. Should I shoot a few badgers around the place? I had one with TB once and an auctioneer came out. Gave me 300 more than the animal was worth. He had tea and a feed of biscuits. I got clear on next two tests but was sorry more warned turned down. In future I will get tested earlier every year incase I get turned down again I can keep some silage.

You may have lost a fortunate this year and a good few have but as long as SFP is there to compensate guys I am happy my system will continue until 2019. My figures are net in response to another poster. Pudsey is also right and I will cut back on silage sales next year and buy a few more stock.

eric prydz

AP2014 wrote: »

Hi, Farmer Pudsey beat me too it but I will answer anyway. I assure you I cost EVERYTHING down to the last cent. While I keep costs to a minimum that is my choice and helps my profit margins.

The only thing I had to do for SFP and DAS every year is apply online at no cost and keep a minimum amount of stock for 7 months. Not quite sure what fences or hedge cutting rules apply. But to obtain my herd number a department inspector called to check fences and crush and he was happy enough. Strangely the only ones who aren't are posters on here because I don't have hugh fencing costs each year. My neighbours are fine as well, I actually get visits from stock from one of them. He is a bit of a disaster at fencing but a sound fella.

On 2012 it was one of my best years only topped by this year. I actually put up some receipts for that year. On the TB thing I am powerless but aren't must farmers. Should I shoot a few badgers around the place? I had one with TB once and an auctioneer came out. Gave me 300 more than the animal was worth. He had tea and a feed of biscuits. I got clear on next two tests but was sorry more warned turned down. In future I will get tested earlier every year incase I get turned down again I can keep some silage.

You may have lost a fortunate this year and a good few have but as long as SFP is there to compensate guys I am happy my system will continue until 2019. My figures are net in response to another poster. Pudsey is also right and I will cut back on silage sales next year and buy a few more stock.

Well I remember being in the local mart in 2012 and there was a few lads trying to sell cattle off the grass and they to nearly give them away as they had no feed or housing for them.
Is the 300 per head profit before or after the sfp is added in?

AP2014

eric prydz wrote: »

Well first of all I compare my accounts over a few years because every year isn't the same and try and average them over 3 years to try and see where im going I must be the biggest fool ever.:rolleyes:
Every summer grazeing man ive spoken to in the last while are all saying that they've lost over 100 euros per animal over the last year and they cant all be telling lies and why isn't everyone not at the same if its so profitable:rolleyes:
I was often caught with cattle with tb that I bought in I don't know what planet your on if you think its a low risk :rolleyes: also you can lose a percentage of your sfp if you don't believe in topping or maintaining hedges fences or your farm in general:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Yearlings were well back in spring this year, stores were a savage thread in October/November. It must have been one of the best years for grass in a long time. How the hell have they lost a €100 per head per animal? Other lads like me think it was a great year for our system.

€300 is per head, SFP is totally separate and rests in my bank a/c.

Farmer Pudsey

eric prydz wrote: »

Well first of all I compare my accounts over a few years because every year isn't the same and try and average them over 3 years to try and see where im going I must be the biggest fool ever.:rolleyes:
Every summer grazeing man ive spoken to in the last while are all saying that they've lost over 100 euros per animal over the last year and they cant all be telling lies and why isn't everyone not at the same if its so profitable:rolleyes:
I was often caught with cattle with tb that I bought in I don't know what planet your on if you think its a low risk :rolleyes: also you can lose a percentage of your sfp if you don't believe in topping or maintaining hedges fences or your farm in general:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

I have had cattle for the last 12 years, most cattle will be gone by 3 years of age. I have not(knock on wood) failed a test yet. IMO and talking to most farmers it is cows that are most at risk or if you have a large population of badgers close by. Know two farmers near me that had issues one was a dairy farmer and the other a suckler farmer.

Yest you can lose a percentage of you SFP but again less than 2% of farmers are checked ever year. The department generally checks a larger percentage of those that have a high stocking density compared to lower stocked farms. Even with all that I have never heard of a farmer penalised for bad fences.

AP is right stores were a poor trade during the spring and early summer but a savage trade in October/November. In general stores were 2/KG at most this spring and the sme or more in October in October/November. Also this year it was not uncommon to put 250kgs on these quality stores.

Take a lad that bought 350 Kg stores in spring and it cost him 750 in the yard and he had them at 600kgs in October they be making over 1200 euro That is a 450 euro gap. Too many lads buy the hot store that comes out of the shed you need the bony hairy store that will put 100kgs on in the first 70 -80 days. I have a feeling AP is buying them. I be interested in seeing photos of the cattle he buys in the spring and how they look in the autumn.

At present it is not paying to overwinter cattle. I think next spring will be different but we will wait and see.

Bigbird1

Cattle did very well for us too,I bought a 13 month old blue x heifer last june 365kg for 850euro. That heifer was killed a week ago at 303 carcass weight,4euro base price, she graded U-3= the cheque was for 1273euro clear. Heifer was fed 2kg in the shed along with other store heifers for one month before slaughter.

tanko

Bigbird1 wrote: »

Cattle did very well for us too,I bought a 13 month old blue x heifer last june 365kg for 850euro. That heifer was killed a week ago at 303 carcass weight,4euro base price, she graded U-3= the cheque was for 1273euro clear. Heifer was fed 2kg in the shed along with other store heifers for one month before slaughter.

That worked out well for you, making €423 profit before expenses for keeping a heifer on grass for five months and one month in a shed.
It didn't work out too well for the farmer that kept a cow for twelve months and a weanling for five months in a shed for €850 before expenses.
Were you not tempted to feed her for another month or so?