The Dail bar - a sad reflection on Irish politics

nice_guy80

Is it time for the Dail bar to shut it's doors?

It is a bit crazy that we have a bar in the houses of the Oireachtas.
What other European countries have this? (ok the UK)

The government are always harping on about following the Nordic model of doing things, well the Swedes and Finns have no bars in their parliament buildings.

walshb

The bar is not the problem!!!

Username exists

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lm_rM_Lnouo

MightyMandarin

I think the principal of having a bar in our Parliament building is wrong, but let's face it, if they shut the down the Dail bar, the same folk will just get p*ssed in a pub across the street instead.

conorh91

nice_guy80 wrote: »

What other European countries have this? (ok the UK)

Oh but there are not merely one or two bars in the Palace of Westminister.

Those booze hounds have eight.

I assume most of our European partners would label their bars as "restaurants", given the continental habit of munching on chips and sausages during their tipples.

I'm not sure whether the Canadians have a bar in their Parliament or not, but considering that one of their most famous PMs tended to drink gin during his speeches, I'm pretty sure they do.

I doubt there is a parliament in the civilised world where you cannot buy a drink or eleven.

Are you sure that representatives cannot buy alcohol in the Finnish and Swedish parliaments? Do you have evidence of that?

JaseBelleVie

Given the amount of hotels, bars, restaurants and pubs dotted all around Leinster House, would this make any difference?

There is a hotel right across from the Dáil, with entrances on both Kildare Street and Molesworth Street, that is a regular haunt for a lot of the TD's and Senators. Can't think of the name for it right now, but I go in there a good bit and I've often sat at a table next to a gaggle of TD's or Senators who are drinking away merrily at lunchtime.

I remember getting a guided tour of the Palace of Westminster back in the day, and yep. 8 bars. In fairness, there are 600-odd members of the House of Commons and about 10,000 members of the House of Lords to look after, so you can sympathise.

I don't think having a bar in the Dáil is a huge issue. It certainly wouldn't curtail the drinking (as I've seen by the politicians decamping to the hotel across the road). Maybe if they removed the subsidy and charged Temple Bar prices for a pint in there?

NIMAN

A workplace with its own pub, and you are allowed to drink whilst working, what a job!

nice_guy80

the craziest thing is that the bar does not require a licence

And it stays open as long as the Seanad or Dail is sitting

Cookie_Monster

JaseHeath wrote: »

Given the amount of hotels, bars, restaurants and pubs dotted all around Leinster House, would this make any difference?

yes it would, it would mean taxpayer subsidising pints directly to the wasters in there. let them pay normal rates out of their own pockets.

JaseBelleVie

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

yes it would, it would mean taxpayer subsidising pints directly to the wasters in there. let them pay normal rates out of their own pockets.

JaseHeath wrote: »

Maybe if they removed the subsidy and charged Temple Bar prices for a pint in there?

Ahem!

maringo

NIMAN wrote: »

A workplace with its own pub, and you are allowed to drink whilst working, what a job!

Some of the army premises have a bar or "mess". Does that mean soldiers are drinking at work - I doubt it.
Do you have to apply for your job at regular or irregular intervals? Personally, I think they give up a lot to be politicians, no privacy, away from their families if they live down the country. And I think the worst thing is people can say anything about them. Granted they are highly paid but on the other hand I think they can pay a high price for being in public life. And no I'm not a politician but I do try to look at things from more than one angle. One of the things that I object to is them getting paid for turning up for work on top of their salary. Don't know anybody who gets paid for attending work along with their wages. :mad:

glued

Yes, let's completely sterilise Irish politics all together. This is exactly the problem with Irish politics. If a politician wants to have a drink he or she should be entitled to it. What difference does it make if it's in a bar in the Dail or across the road. People have completely unrealistic expectations of politicans in this country. People think that they are robots and shouldn't be able to drink or enjoy their lives. The expectations of the electorate are a large reason why we get fed such bullsh1t by the politicans in this country.

NIMAN

maringo wrote: »

Some of the army premises have a bar or "mess". Does that mean soldiers are drinking at work - I doubt it.
Do you have to apply for your job at regular or irregular intervals? Personally, I think they give up a lot to be politicians, no privacy, away from their families if they live down the country. And I think the worst thing is people can say anything about them. Granted they are highly paid but on the other hand I think they can pay a high price for being in public life. And no I'm not a politician but I do try to look at things from more than one angle. One of the things that I object to is them getting paid for turning up for work on top of their salary. Don't know anybody who gets paid for attending work along with their wages. :mad:

So let me get this straight. You think it should be ok to drink alcohol whilst working?

hfallada

NIMAN wrote: »

So let me get this straight. You think it should be ok to drink alcohol whilst working?

They are hardly operating heavy machinery! How is it different than having a beer or two at lunch and going back to the office to work. Personally I think TDs should drink in a private bar. The last thing we need is them drinking in a public bar, that could be bugged by a paper or financial firm

VinLieger

hfallada wrote: »

They are hardly operating heavy machinery! How is it different than having a beer or two at lunch and going back to the office to work. Personally I think TDs should drink in a private bar. The last thing we need is them drinking in a public bar, that could be bugged by a paper or financial firm

Where do you work cus I wanna move there, any business I have worked in or I know of that you returned to from lunch after having two pints would give you an official warning.

DeJa VooDoo

NIMAN wrote: »

A workplace with its own pub, and you are allowed to drink whilst working, what a job!

Exactly, and these people are supposed to make decisions in the best interest of the country with a few scoops on board.

DeJa VooDoo

VinLieger wrote: »

Where do you work cus I wanna move there, any business I have worked in or I know of that you returned to from lunch after having two pints would give you an official warning.

And if you did it a second time an official P45!

pawrick

Have they got rid of the allowance for drink driving by politicians attending Leinster House? If not that would be top of my list rather than closing down the bar.

Other than that, bring in normal opening hours for the bar and remove the subsidy for cheap drink and let them pay like the rest of the plebs.

DeJa VooDoo

pawrick wrote: »

Have they got rid of the allowance for drink driving by politicians attending Leinster House? If not that would be top of my list rather than closing down the bar.

Other than that, bring in normal opening hours for the bar and remove the subsidy for cheap drink and let them pay like the rest of the plebs.

AFAIK, TD's coming or going to Dail Eireann on 'official business' are exempt from DD laws.
I may be wrong on that.
TD's should be breathalysed before voting on legislation too, surely the least we can expect is that they aren't under the influence while voting through legislation which affects the electorate?

Palmach

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Is it time for the Dail bar to shut it's doors?

It is a bit crazy that we have a bar in the houses of the Oireachtas.
What other European countries have this? (ok the UK)

The government are always harping on about following the Nordic model of doing things, well the Swedes and Finns have no bars in their parliament buildings.

Who wants to follow the Nordic model? I know of other countries with bars and subsidised restaurants for parliamentarians. A non-issue in my book.

Alun

NIMAN wrote: »

A workplace with its own pub, and you are allowed to drink whilst working, what a job!

Back when I worked at ESOC (European Space Operations Centre) in Germany in the 80's, not only was there an on-site bar that opened at 5pm, but you could buy beer both in the canteen and the coffee shop. Different times ...

MadYaker

I personally have no problem with my local TD having 1 or 2 drinks at lunch time. In many parts it's common practice with all professions. They shouldn't be getting drunk during the working day though.

bertson

The difference is that WE are paying for our 'elite ruling class' to live like kings so if we are saying its OK for them to have a few pints at lunchtime when you can't get into an A&E then we get what we deserve.

hmmm

It's not the 50s, it is no longer acceptable in most "professional" occupations to drink during the working day.

For Reals

If some buffoon of a politician wants to disrespect the electorate, piss on his civil duties, by having alcohol during work, that's a shame on him/her and like every other job in the land someone should be able to pull them up on being under the influence in the work place. Debating on serious issues and possibly voting while drunk? These arseholes don't need the Dail bar and it's up to us not to re-elect them. You wouldn't be let away with that in any other job. Just shows the disregard and contempt for the public some of these jackasses have.

For Reals

Alun wrote: »

Back when I worked at ESOC (European Space Operations Centre) in Germany in the 80's, not only was there an on-site bar that opened at 5pm, but you could buy beer both in the canteen and the coffee shop. Different times ...

I'll warrant you weren't working with the children that are some of our politicians who can't control themselves or simply don't care.

RoboRat

If I turn up for work under the influence I would get sacked and I work in marketing, not running the country.

If they want to drink, do it on your own time like everybody else. Its not like they don't get enough free time an holidays.

Alun

For Reals wrote: »

I'll warrant you weren't working with the children that are some of our politicians who can't control themselves or simply don't care.

Actually, many people did abuse it, and on one memorable occasion the Polizei chased a staff member who was clearly pissed after leaving said bar. He managed to evade them and get back into the ESOC grounds which has special diplomatic status, so they weren't able to continue their pursuit. It caused a bit of a minor diplomatic incident I can tell you, and shortly afterwards the bar was closed.

conorh91

RoboRat wrote: »

If I turn up for work under the influence I would get sacked and I work in marketing, not running the country.

There's a pretty fundamental, democratic reason why TDs are office-holders and not employees, and cannot be administratively 'sacked' like some marketing guy.

The reality is that most TDs and Senators are mere button-pushers during their time in the Houses of the Oireachtas. The real work done by backbenchers happens elsewhere in Leinster House in the meeting rooms, committee-meeting rooms and in their offices.

Its not like they don't get enough free time an holidays.

I think the perpetual outrage and incessantly anti-politician shrieking that goes on this country is actually more harmful to civic life than any number of Dail bars.

I can see no logical reason why a well-educated person on a TD's salary would forsake his happy life for the life of a TD, when they have to put up with crap like the above.

Manach

One hand, knowing history, I w'd approve. Ancient Babylonians only made decisions drunk. On the other, given so much of legislation is crafted by lobbyists interests, Europe and civil service then does it really matter how sober they are.

AlekSmart

hfallada wrote: »

They are hardly operating heavy machinery! How is it different than having a beer or two at lunch and going back to the office to work. Personally I think TDs should drink in a private bar. The last thing we need is them drinking in a public bar, that could be bugged by a paper or financial firm

Indeed,folks appear to have selectively forgotten the antics of these buckos,whose performance provides good enough reason for the retention of a Members Bar....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FZ5-0CXw8c

:rolleyes:

DeJa VooDoo

Could we take the word 'bar' out of the OP?
It'd be a more accurate headline.

Son Of A Vidic

NIMAN wrote: »

A workplace with its own pub, and you are allowed to drink whilst working, what a job!

You must not operate heavy machinery or drive while under the influence of alcohol. But in Daíl Éireann, a trip to the Bar during the 'working day' is somehow perfectly acceptable.

suicide_circus

If I had a pint during lunch I would instantly be sacked.

Annasopra

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

yes it would, it would mean taxpayer subsidising pints directly to the wasters in there. let them pay normal rates out of their own pockets.

Sorry what? You've lost me? The Leinster house bar doesnt charge at a discounted rate

jimmycrackcorm

suicide_circus wrote:

If I had a pint during lunch I would instantly be sacked.

No you wouldn't. You'd have a nice labour court award if you were.

Unless of course you're a Garda and 2 breathalysed by your colleagues.

nice_guy80

Nothing wrong with a beer at lunch.

The problem I have is the Dáil bar being open when debates on important issues such as the budget, child abuse, bank debt and legislation is being discussed.
And the Dáil seems to have a habit of sitting late regularly.

markpb

TDs show up in Dail and vote the way they're told to. As long as they're capable of pushing the right one of two buttons, they are doing *that part* of their jobs correctly. If they are actually drunk, it's disrespectful to the parliament but nothing more.

And FWIW I suspect must people here could go got a drink at lunch and no-one would either notice or mind but culturally we think it's verboten.

Cookie_Monster

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Sorry what? You've lost me? The Leinster house bar doesnt charge at a discounted rate

all on (unvouched) expenses though

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

Absolutely Yes. It should have been shut years ago.

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Is it time for the Dail bar to shut it's doors?...

d.pop

Stating the obvious here but just because there is a bar doesn't mean everybody is on the piss.... It is possible to go in to a bar and not get pissed. Most politicians are no longer teens and are professional enough to know what is and isn't appropriate.
I 've spent many a lunchtime in a bar drinking non-alcoholic drinks or eating.
Fwiw, Over the years I've had some dealings with Irish politicians and their families and they deserve a drink in my book, as an earlier poster said many are away from their families for long periods and don't fool yourself by thinking they are on holidays half the year. Like most professions when you get to that level you never stop work despite what all the eejits say to the contrary. They take a week or two in the sun like the rest of us and then back to the local clinics, workshops, etc

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

They might deserve a drink... on their own time, like every other citizen. Not in our Dail where they are there to be representatives of the people and to legislate.

There is no shortage of other establishments in the vicinity of the Dail.

ninty9er

Over 500 people work in Leinster House. They don't all sit in the Dáil and the bar there does serve coffee, sandwiches, etc.

You can have a beer with your lunch for free in Google. I'm not seeing the issue. Its not like every TD, Senator and OC employee is in there on the piss every hour of the day. These people have offices, committees to go to, things to read, you know stuff to do in general. I'd imagine most of you here don't arrive at work before 9am and stay until 2-3 am the following morning very often.

Take it easy.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

The difference is that google is a private company and doesn't run a country. Let them have a canteen instead to serve coffee and sandwiches. They do not need an establishment that serves alcohol.

cooperguy

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Is it time for the Dail bar to shut it's doors?

It is a bit crazy that we have a bar in the houses of the Oireachtas.
What other European countries have this? (ok the UK)

The government are always harping on about following the Nordic model of doing things, well the Swedes and Finns have no bars in their parliament buildings.

I have really gotten sick of the indignation around the Dail bar as if its somehow unique. Bars in parliament are common around the world.

Here is one or two of them: http://www.thejournal.ie/how-do-our-politicians-fare-in-terms-of-perks-1071827-Sep2013/

Lockstep

A Guinness in the Dáil is €4.40. Decent for Dublin but hardly subsidized. A pint of Guinness in Galway ranges from €3.50-€4.50
It's not like the TDs are paying Army prices.

Utterly bizarre thing to get agitated about.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

The price of the pint in the Dail or whether other parliaments have a bar is completely irrelevant.

There is no reason that our politicians should have access to alcohol in their place of work.

Take an example from the airline industry - an airline pilot. Would you want your pilot to be allowed to have drink or have easy access to drink before piloting your flight?

Our politicians must take care of circa 4 million citizens. The drink culture and issues relating to drink in this country is well known and resonates throughout our entire society. Another poster mentioned that *other* parliaments have bars but the fact is that those countries do not have the same issues relating to over consumption of alcohol as is in this country.

'...they deserve a drink in my book...' - what a load of BS. Anyone in any industry can 'deserve' a drink. Does a politician work harder than you or I or joe soap? What makes them so special that they can't walk into a bar across from the Dail and enjoy their well 'deserved' pint?

I am actually saddened that anyone would defend having a bar in our Dail.

Lucena

Sometimes in a work situation, it's important to be able to discuss things in a more informal setting.

I've been at official meetings (not in politics and not in Ireland) where you get a lot more information, contacts etc in the half hour after the meeting than during the 2-3 hour meeting itself, as people can talk more freely and off the record.

For this reason there needs to be a bar in the Dail, as, in response to the question of 'why don't they go to a bar across the road?', there also needs to be no risk of them being overheard. It's not as if they're all in there on the lash watching the United match, is it?

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

I'm sure there is a perfectly good water cooler on each floor for their unofficial water cooler moments.

Companies have informal meetings all the time. Take them to lunch, have a drink and then back to the office. There's no lack of restaurants/bars that can be booked with privacy in mind.

Fr Tod Umptious

Lockstep wrote: »

A Guinness in the Dáil is €4.40. Decent for Dublin but hardly subsidized. A pint of Guinness in Galway ranges from €3.50-€4.50
It's not like the TDs are paying Army prices.

Utterly bizarre thing to get agitated about.

Do you have the prices of the lunches and dinners, teas and coffees ?

Cos I reckon that's what the vast majority of members spend the vast majority of their expenses on in the place.

As others have said, they are adult profesdionals. Not a bunch of students, the are not on the rip every time they step into the place.

Dempsey

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Do you have the prices of the lunches and dinners, teas and coffees ?

Cos I reckon that's what the vast majority of members spend the vast majority of their expenses on in the place.

As others have said, they are adult profesdionals. Not a bunch of students, the are not on the rip every time they step into the place.

But some have seen to be drunk or under the influence when doing late voting on serious legislation.

Hard to listen to these people on those matters or especially when these people preach to the masses about alcohol and all they do for the pub trade lobbyists.

I suppose its ok though, the party whips were guiding their hands onto the right button to press anyways