Is this some kind of sexual assault? <Mod Warning: Posts #1, #106, #153>

Genegirl83

Mod Warning

Due to various sideswipes, the petty comments and off topic discussion, multiple mod warnings have been issued in the thread. As per the forum charter, if you can't post constructively towards the OP's issue, then don't post. Any further breaches of the charter or off topic discussion will be carded from here on.

Regards
Mike




Hey guys,

So I haven't posted for a while but I'd really like some advice/information about what I think was a BIG deal.

Essentially, I have a partner who I've been seeing seriously for a good deal of time. The problem is she has this flatmate who is in his 40's, single, never married, wealthy and who drinks far too much. My partner is gorgeous, by any standards and he has taken quite a shine to her. Excuse my french but he's a d!ck. On numerous occasions he's tried to tell her she's not gay but is only with me because of her poor self esteem and bad history with men and on one occasion essentially threatened me by saying that I (you) "Don't want to mess with me (him)". He said this out of the blue one night when I had said something innocuous. Basically, he REALLY want to sleep with (possibly be with) my partner. She gives him NO signs. Stays in her room all the time, rarely engages with him, the works. He still doesn't get it.

So the other night I came over to her place and this is where things got heavy. He was asleep at the time we arrived home. We went to sleep but awoke at 4am and could hear him snore next door. We were having an intimate moment but sounds were kept to a minimum. Suddenly we noticed that the snoring had stopped and we could hear him up and pacing. My Parners room is right next door to his, as I said and we do hear him regularly come in and out of his room. We were still engaged in things when I heard him walk down the corridor - my partner was more engrossed. Suddenly I stopped and said her name and asked "Did you hear that?". It was if he had walked down the corridor then stopped outside her door. I truly didn't believe he'd walk in but when he did my heart almost stopped. Instinctively I threw my arm over my partner who, was a little less modest than me beneath the duvet. I IMMEDIATELY noticed that his left hand was down the front of his trousers and he looked to have it on his genitals. I very quickly asked him what he was doing here and he became flustered, mumbled quickly as if surprised and left. We were both quite winded after he left. My partner was turned around and couldn't see his hand but I could which instilled immense disgust.

I am not just shocked about this situation. I sincerely believe he thought she was alone. What exactly were his intentions? Did he hear her moan and fancy his chances? Did he intend to ma$terbate in her bed? It was 4am, did he think she was asleep? Would he have raped her? I'm very worried. What do you all make of this event? Is it as serious as I feel it is?

Yes, I know a lock would be desirable but we have an apartment together in another country that she'll be moving in to as soon as a position opens up and so contacting the landlord probably won't work now and secondly (more importantly) the landlord and this creep are very close friends)

Thoughts?

the_monkey

Definetely it's a form of sexual assault - what a disgusting creepy thing to do ...


I'd get out of there asap - and perhaps contact the guards - a talk with them might be enough to scare him - these people are usually cowards.

amdublin

Was he sleepwalking maybe?

Genegirl83

@amdublin

Definitely not. We did consider that initially.

Genegirl83

@monkey

I totally agree. I wanted to scream at him but I'm afraid his actions could escalate.

Or maybe he goes to the bathroom at 4am and is a bit sleepy opening the wrong door, but still adjusting himself. Not saying it is right, but sounds like a mistake for me.

amdublin

Deleted User wrote: »

Or maybe he goes to the bathroom at 4am and is a bit sleepy opening the wrong door, but still adjusting himself. Not saying it is right, but sounds like a mistake for me.

I am inclined to think it is this.

Genegirl83

@Lorenzo

No, he has an ensuite bathroom. We had wondered if it was a mistake but we just knew he'd enter before he did. He basically stopped outside the door before entering.

Genegirl83

He DEFINITELY was not going to the bathroom. He entered slowly. He didn't mistake anything.

blue note

Sounds like he was sleep walking. It's happened twice in my house that people have wandered into each others bedrooms, never with a hand down their trousers to be fair.

By the sounds of it she should look elsewhere anyway, but the incident you describe sounds like something he did in his sleep. He might not even be aware of it.

amdublin

If you are not comfortable living with this man I think you two should move out.

Greenmachine

Gay, straight, or bi, not a lot to do with what is going on. What this guy is doing is serious inappropriate. I would not feel comfortable in your girlfriend situation.

amdublin

Greenmachine wrote: »

Gay, straight, or bi, not a lot to do with what is going on. What this guy is doing is serious inappropriate. I would not feel comfortable in your girlfriend situation.

Yes, I would move out if I was the girlfriend.

Genegirl83

We KNOW she needs to move out and (mass referred to in the post) she is. We already have an apartment together, she's just waiting on a job. My partner is a medic and could tell by his behaviour he conclusively WAS NOT SLEEP WALKING. I also don't feel like he was. He stopped outside the door and entered slowly as if it was calculated. He was touching himself. It was not an accident.

Roquentin

he sounds like one of those narcissistic individuals who has an inflated sense of entitlement

amdublin

I am not sure what you want me/us to say.

Do I think it was "some kind of sexual assault"? No. E.g. I think you would sound crazy describing to a garda what this man did.

Your girlfriend is a medic. I am sure she knows what sexual assault is.

Do I think this man is inappropriate and weird and not acceptable and your girlfriend needs to move out (or lock her door at a minimum). Yes.


What are you looking for OP?

Genegirl83

@Greenmachine

I totally agree. I'm just worried it could escalate past inappropriate. My partner wants to say something but I'm not so sure either of us should. Is this a legal matter? I can't tell.

secondrowgal

Sorry to hear about your experience OP - very scary full stop! I'm assuming that you and your girlfriend don't have anywhere else to stay otherwise I imagine that she wouldn't still be there even before this incident.

God knows what he was up to or what he intended but I'd be at the very least threatening him with the guards. Not sure what the landlord's responsibilities are in this area, perhaps you could check on the accommodation forum? He sounds like either a bully or a Neanderthal, and neither of these is a good outcome. I hope that it works out for you!

Oh, and by the way, I know it's hard because you're in vulnerable position but try and rise about the idiots that this thread is bound to flush out of the very shallow wood work!!

amdublin

Genegirl83 wrote: »

I totally agree. I'm just worried it could escalate past inappropriate. My partner wants to say something but I'm not so sure either of us should. Is this a legal matter? I can't tell.

Yes it could escalate.

He sounds like a weirdo.

I think your partner should say: I find your behaviour unacceptable. What happened the other night was the straw that broke the camels back. Your actions scared me. I am moving out.

amdublin

Op - as a medic what does your girlfriend think?

Genegirl83

@ amdublin

Let me tell you first what I am not looking for... Your personal opinion on what I saw. I know what I saw and I know the context.

Secondly, exposing yourself or masterbating in front of someone non-consensually is definitely illegal. She, however, believes she can handle him. I feel she just isn't examining the situation with depth.

My question is, based on what I know, could this be considered sexual assault etc. in people's opinion it's not complicated.

eviltwin

I wouldn't call it a sexual assault but its a gross invasion of privacy and I couldn't trust him after that. I would be afraid he'd do something more serious next time especially given the comments he's made in the past. I would be worried doing nothing would be, in his head, a green light. It may not of course but I wouldn't take the chance. Its her home and its the one place you should feel totally secure and can you ever feel that way with him there?

Why won't she say anything to him? Is it just the two of them living there?

Genegirl83

@ amdublin

Apologies, my reply looks rather aggressive. I am sorry. I'm just aggravated and worried.

amdublin

Genegirl83 wrote: »

@ amdublin

Let me tell you first what I am not looking for... Your personal opinion on what I saw. I know what I saw and I know the context.

Secondly, exposing yourself or masterbating in front of someone non-consensually is definitely illegal. She, however, believes she can handle him. I feel she just isn't examining the situation with depth.

My question is, based on what I know, could this be considered sexual assault etc. in people's opinion it's not complicated.

This is completely my personal opinion:
I don't think it sounds like he was masturbating or exposing himself. As you said he had his hand on his genitals.

I think he was confused (after being asleep snoring) and was going to the toilet - and holding his genitals while doing this. Some men do this. Have you ever seen a little boy dying to go to the toilet? When you wake up in the middle of the night you tend to be needing to go.

But overall I think this man sounds like a weirdo. His previous actions, combined with this incident now which has very much upset you...I think you need to move out. Or get a lock on the door.

I think describing the scenario that you described in the first post to a garda would frankly be a very odd thing to do.

My personal opinion.

Hope this doesn't sounds aggressive either, don't worry I didn't take your post as agressive.

Genegirl83

She's doing that typical, occasionally annoying, health professional thing:

If you have a symptom, get it checked out, could be serious.
If she has a symptom: a sure, be grand.

It drives me crazy. She does think it was extremely bad and she was very shocked but she still doesn't see the depth. She makes good money but as I said, we already have an apartment abroad and she's currently double renting already. She'll only been there another month or 2 but what could happen in that time? He's been hostile towards me before and also her friends.

moc moc a moc

amdublin wrote: »

I think your partner should say: I find your behaviour unacceptable. What happened the other night was the straw that broke the camels back. Your actions scared me. I am moving out.

I would modify this slightly:

I find your behaviour unacceptable. What happened the other night was the straw that broke the camels back. Your actions scared me. I have made a report with the local garda station.

Genegirl83

@ Jelly Jack

She hasn't said anything basically, because we (but certainly I planted the seed in her head) that saying something might tip him over the edge in to rejection/nothing-left-to-lose land. She really wants to say something... I'm just not sure.

amdublin

moc moc a moc wrote: »

I would modify this slightly:

I find your behaviour unacceptable. What happened the other night was the straw that broke the camels back. Your actions scared me. I have made a report with the local garda station.

I don't know....

What would you say if you were a gard:
Me: My flatmate says things like this xxxxxxx. Last night in the middle of night he woke up from sleep he opened my door. He had his hand down his shorts on his penis.
You: Em. Sounds like he was sleep walking. Have you talked to him about it?

Genegirl83

@ amdublin

No no, he has a bathroom in his room. He wouldn't get lost. I noticed the snoring had stopped but what tipped me off was all the pacing for 5-10 before he entered. He was up and about. I should have described that better.

amdublin

Genegirl83 wrote: »

She's doing that typical, occasionally annoying, health professional thing:

If you have a symptom, get it checked out, could be serious.
If she has a symptom: a sure, be grand.

It drives me crazy.

I don't know what all of this means in relation to the circumstances you have described.

Does she know what sexual assault is or not?

What do you mean by medic/health professional?? Doctor, nurse, dentist, care staff?

Genegirl83

Genegirl83 wrote: »

@Lorenzo

No, he has an ensuite bathroom. We had wondered if it was a mistake but we just knew he'd enter before he did. He basically stopped outside the door before entering.

OK, this is new information not seen before, so now my theory is less good

amdublin

Genegirl83 wrote: »

@ amdublin

No no, he has a bathroom in his room. He wouldn't get lost. I noticed the snoring had stopped but what tipped me off was all the pacing for 5-10 before he entered. He was up and about. I should have described that better.

I think this incident has really upset and unnerved you. Whether you say it to him or not I think you need to move out.

What are you thinking about going to the Gardai on this?

Genegirl83

I mean she appreciates the negative quality of things when they happen to others but never to herself.

She's a doctor. When bad things happen she sticks her head in the sand and fails to see the knock on effects or the potential for trouble.

amdublin

Deleted User wrote: »

OK, this is new information not seen before, so now my theory is less good

Middle of the night...people have been known to walk into their wardrobe thinking it was their bathroom and pee all over their clothes.

amdublin

Genegirl83 wrote: »

I mean she appreciates the negative quality of things when they happen to others but never to herself.

She's a doctor. When bad things happen she sticks her head in the sand and fails to see the knock on effects or the potential for trouble.

Well it happened to you as much to her. If you feel this was a sexual assault you should go to the gardai.


I am sorry. While I appreciate this was an upsetting incident for you I don't think this is "some kind of sexual assault" but what you think and feel that is most important. Best of luck to you.

(oh and start moving out tomorrow I'd definitely say)

Genegirl83

@amdublin

I mean, potentially yes. I mean, the potential for him to have simply "made a mistake" are low in my opinion. Based on the context and my knowledge of him and also the finer details of the ordeal (the time taken outside the door etc) I'm FREAKED out. Most of all I'm worried about escalation. I was with family tonight, told my best friend who put it this way...

"I'm definitely not saying it's like this but you know the way serial killers hurt animals first and then escalate? And, rapists expose themselves before they assault? He's gotten progressively worse as we've spoken. While he might not be either of those things, escalation can and does happen." And I emphatically agree with him...

Genegirl83

@amdublin

To be fair, you sway strongly between helpful and unhelpful. If you feel it was a mistake, why encourage her to move out? Why can't you see this man was awake for a while (and in fact is quite nocturnal in general) when this occurred. It's quite illogical and unscientific to just say "he probably had to pee" despite the overwhelming evidence repeated that this was highly unlikely. If i thought it was a mistake there would be no issue.

amdublin

I am not there, you are.

I think it could be a mistake. You don't think so. Why would you stay there and risk it if that is the way you feel?

amdublin

Ps. Even a mistake, if I was living with a fella who started walking into my room in the middle of night even by mistake it would freak the hell out of me and I'd be looking for a new flatmate.

Move out!

Genegirl83

@ amdublin and Jelly jack

I agree about moving out but that's the thing... I don't live there, I'm away 99% of the time! abroad, in our joint apartment. She has to (no other option) stay where she is for at least another month or 2 more. She can't move yet. And it's my concern that when she gives a months notice that's when he might act out.

@amdublin

I appreciate what your saying but someone walking in to your bedroom at night while they have their hand on their genitals, isn't an accident by default just because it's 4am. That's all I'm saying.

the_monkey

amdublin wrote: »

I am not sure what you want me/us to say.

Do I think it was "some kind of sexual assault"? No. E.g. I think you would sound crazy describing to a garda what this man did.

Your girlfriend is a medic. I am sure she knows what sexual assault is.

Do I think this man is inappropriate and weird and not acceptable and your girlfriend needs to move out (or lock her door at a minimum). Yes.


What are you looking for OP?

Are you serious ?

You don't think a man walking in to a womans room uninvited while jacking off is NOT a sexual assualt ?

can you imagine the fear and intimidation that would cause ?

May bot be as serious as actual rape but it's threatening behaviour - worse then flashing which afaik is considered a sexual assault (depending on context)

Ghekko

Has she no other pals or colleagues she could ask to stay with until she moves away? There is no way in hell I would sleep in that apartment while he is in it!

amdublin

the_monkey wrote: »

Are you serious ?

You don't think a man walking in to a womans room uninvited while jacking off is NOT a sexual assualt ?

can you imagine the fear and intimidation that would cause ?

May bot be as serious as actual rape but it's threatening behaviour - worse then flashing which afaik is considered a sexual assault (depending on context)

Who said he was jacking off




I can imagine the fear and intimidation:

amdublin wrote: »

Ps. Even a mistake, if I was living with a fella who started walking into my room in the middle of night even by mistake it would freak the hell out of me and I'd be looking for a new flatmate.

Move out!

Genegirl83

amdublin wrote: »

Who said he was jacking off

Me, the OP.

@Jelly

Also I trust her 100%. She literally can't move right now.

marienbad

At the very least get a deadbolt inside her bedroom until she leaves .

Pocoyo

I think this may of been an accident it may not of been but it doesnt warrant an accusation,If this occurred while he was wide awake,sober and coherent id be more concerned.

But as many straight women and guys gay or straight know from experience a man having his hand on his penis isnt that unusual.

But still in future if you are having sex you should try and keep it down as you share you're home and people shouldnt have to listen to that.

Genegirl83

Pocoyo wrote: »

I think this may of been an accident it may not of been but it doesnt warrant an accusation,If this occurred while he was wide awake,sober and coherent id be more concerned.

But as many straight women and guys gay or straight know from experience a man having his hand on his penis isnt that unusual.

But still in future if you are having sex you should try and keep it down as you share you're home and people shouldnt have to listen to that.

We were purposefully very quiet (see: post). He would had to have been up against the door to hear... Which I believe he was. We are always very courteous in that regard.

LegacyUser

I don't think it could be classed as sexual assault op, but nonetheless I would be sh!t scared if somebody walked into my bedroom at 4 in the morning and started groping their genitals. If he has told her the only reason she is gay is because of her low self esteem and he drinks a lot then I wouldn't be hanging around there for very long. Who knows what he would do with drink on him! He sounds like an absolute creep, she really needs to get the hell out of there and quick fast. If there are no locks on her bedroom door then could she move the bed up against the door so he can't let himself in the middle of the night??
If she has only 2 months left on the lease and no where else to go, could she stay over with friends or change shifts at work so she is not in the apartment at the same time as him as well?

amdublin

Genegirl83 wrote: »

Me, the OP.

@Jelly

Also I trust her 100%. She literally can't move right now.

Sorry but I did not take it from your op at all that he was "jacking off"!!!!!!

Genegirl83 wrote: »

I IMMEDIATELY noticed that his left hand was down the front of his trousers and he looked to have it on his genitals. I very quickly asked him what he was doing here and he became flustered, mumbled quickly as if surprised and left. We were both quite winded after he left. My partner was turned around and couldn't see his hand but I could which instilled immense disgust.

I am not just shocked about this situation. I sincerely believe he thought she was alone. What exactly were his intentions? Did he hear her moan and fancy his chances? Did he intend to ma$terbate in her bed? It was 4am, did he think she was asleep? Would he have raped her? I'm very worried. What do you all make of this event? Is it as serious as I feel it is?

I took it to mean he had his hand on his genitals.

Was he masturbating???????????

You need to say it to him that this is not acceptable. If he was masturbating you meed to report him. I am surprised as a doctor your girlfriend is not doing this.

Seriously dude, this is completely different from what you indicated in your first post. Look at all my other posts saying what a guard would say if you said "a man had his hand on his penis at 4am". Masturbating in front of you is completely different.

amdublin

Pocoyo wrote: »

But as many straight women and guys gay or straight know from experience a man having his hand on his penis isnt that unusual.

I agree with this. (Some men do it almost a comfort thing not a sexual thing) But the op has now said he was masturbating. This is different from just having his hand on the penis which is what the op said originally.

Ten of Swords

Op how did your partner come to be living with this lecherous man? Also, why does she not have a lock on her door?

Look, if you think it's an issue that merits action then call the guards, as you were in bed with her at the time I'd say that makes you a victim of this intrusion too.

Based on the information given I'd be leaning towards accidental - maybe and maybe not - but even if she does not want to move out right away and instead thinks she can handle him then she can at least take steps regarding her safety if she is concerned.

As a doctor, particularly a medic, I am sure she has seen first hand the results of serious assault.