training for spraying

djmc

Just saw a report on agriland.ie about the cost of this coarse could be from 275 up to 1000 euro
Why is it necessary to do this when it would have been covered in at collage by most of us and we would have years experience.
If the general public were told they had to sit a driving test again and pay that kind of money for a new license there would be uproar.
What is the point taking a year or more getting a green cert if we are being shafted later and have to pay to do a new coarse.

boggerman1

Just another excuse for some faceless civil servant to come up with another way of setting up a charge for nothing.what's new in this country

C4d78

boggerman1 wrote: »

Just another excuse for some faceless civil servant to come up with another way of setting up a charge for nothing.what's new in this country

Couldn't have put it better!!
Complete and utter bulls@*t...
What next if the authorities are allowed get away with this one.. €1,000 course for milking €700 course to calve a cow.
Enough is enough..
Find another industry other than farming to bleed dry. Leeches

Blackgrass

This is not an Irish civil servant thing... It's the folk who you get most your subsidy from.
This is not a supprise, deal with it.
Heck here's some reading if you want even as to some of the reasons we have these mid-way compromises rather than blanket bans some would prefer.
thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/scientists-accused-of-plotting-to-get-pesticides-banned.37112/

Mad4simmental

It's more to do with health and safety, correct use of chemicals and education on rates ect.

Highly unlikely to cost €1000 unless your a contractor and you can probably clame it back to.

Every other industry is hammered and we are getting away easy to be honist. Health and safety will be getting more and more strengent in the coming years get ust to it.

When you do the corse make sure it's a city of gills corse (English version) you will have it for life and won't have to renew it every few years.

djmc

Mad4simmental wrote: »

It's more to do with health and safety, correct use of chemicals and education on rates ect.

Highly unlikely to cost €1000 unless your a contractor and you can probably clame it back to.

Every other industry is hammered and we are getting away easy to be honist. Health and safety will be getting more and more strengent in the coming years get ust to it.

When you do the corse make sure it's a city of gills corse (English version) you will have it for life and won't have to renew it every few years.

My point is what is wrong with the coarse we did in agricultural college as part of the years training to become a farmer
Wasn't crops chemicals machinery and health and safety covered in this.

Mad4simmental

djmc wrote: »

My point is what is wrong with the coarse we did in agricultural college as part of the years training to become a farmer
Wasn't crops chemicals machinery and health and safety covered in this.

True but you probably drove a tractor in college too and were given safety talks about it but it didn't give you the licence.

Nekarsulm

Mad4simmental wrote: »

It's more to do with health and safety, correct use of chemicals and education on rates ect.

Highly unlikely to cost €1000 unless your a contractor and you can probably clame it back to.

Every other industry is hammered and we are getting away easy to be honist. Health and safety will be getting more and more strengent in the coming years get ust to it.

When you do the course make sure it's a "City & Guilds" course (English version) you will have it for life and won't have to renew it every few years.

Are City & Guilds courses available in the Republic?
Or are they available in N. I ?
Will they be recognised here?

Have been reading about people with UK Dumper certs., etc, having to repeat here, because their qualification is not recognised here.

AntrimGlens

The Ag Colleges up here will put the students doing Ag courses through their PA1 & PA2 for free, farmers get a subsidised rate and landscapers etc will have to pay full whack, but once you do it thats it for life. There is a backlog of 6 months for the boom (PA2) training and there are several independant companies setting themselves up to take advantage of the numbers likely to apply in the coming year.
The problem has stemmed from atrophication of water courses here, the levels of phosphorous found in some rivers would make you drink bottled water and its predominantly from fellas going out to spray rushes with MCPA that couldn't give a monkeys about spray drift, driving beside or over watercourses and spilling chemical in the yard when you're filling the sprayer or rinsing containers.

I think Blackgrass would tell you a thing or two about how strict it is in England about spraying, going around notifying neighbours etc when you want to go spraying. If you look at some of the other threads on here about how careless some of us have been when using spray its about time that it was tightened up.

I'm certainly not for discriminating against farmers but these are hazardous chemicals that we use with blatant disregard for our own personal safety or the effect on the environment. Do you think Bayer or Monsanto give a **** about ensuring their products are safe to use and non toxic?

bogman_bass

djmc wrote: »

My point is what is wrong with the coarse we did in agricultural college as part of the years training to become a farmer
Wasn't crops chemicals machinery and health and safety covered in this.

because if it was anything like Ballyhaise when I was there it wasn't worth a Sh!te!

C4d78

Mad4simmental wrote: »

It's more to do with health and safety, correct use of chemicals and education on rates ect.

Highly unlikely to cost €1000 unless your a contractor and you can probably clame it back to.

Every other industry is hammered and we are getting away easy to be honist. Health and safety will be getting more and more strengent in the coming years get ust to it.

When you do the corse make sure it's a city of gills corse (English version) you will have it for life and won't have to renew it every few years.

Crikey lads, rates etc are written on the chemicals you are purchasing along with all health and safety info....
A small bit of COMMON SENSE goes along way with things like spraying.
They can't teach you common sense on the course. If people don't already have that park up the sprayer and bring in the contractor cause you sure as hell won't increase it by listening to someone mouth off for hours...

Nekarsulm

http://www.nptc.org.uk/assets/documents/50413db634c2423b8f38981400f53823.pdf

City & Guilds check list.

Company in Port Laois offer training, and cert. They will come up on Google.
3 day course. Day 1, classroom. Day 2, Practical. Day 3, Exam.
The 3 days to run concurrently, so almost impossible for me to do.
Cost €540.

flutered

yes it is a nice little earner for quite a few people,

Mad4simmental

Nekarsulm wrote: »

http://www.nptc.org.uk/assets/documents/50413db634c2423b8f38981400f53823.pdf

City & Guilds check list.

Company in Port Laois offer training, and cert. They will come up on Google.
3 day course. Day 1, classroom. Day 2, Practical. Day 3, Exam.
The 3 days to run concurrently, so almost impossible for me to do.
Cost €540.

That's the one. They are the only ones I know that are doing it. 3 days is a bit much!

Zoo4m8

Mad4simmental wrote: »

That's the one. They are the only ones I know that are doing it. 3 days is a bit much!

HCT in Kilkenny, 275 for three days, did in a centre about an hour from me, finished last Monday,
I'd like to give every one a heads up, 1, the record keeping is going to be intense. 2. The tutor told us the only person buying pesticides in the future is the housewife squirting her paths using one of those handheld jobs from Woodies etc.
You can talk about it or moan about it till the cows come home but if you don't have a number you are not getting chemicals..end of story,
Initially you could buy 20 litres at a time but that's gone so if you are only doing a bit of Roundup round the yard with a knapsack or a thousand acres with a tank of a sprayer it's all the same..no number, no chemicals..

Nekarsulm

Will give the Ag. College in Enniskillen a ring tomorrow. Would be hours closer to me than Kilkenny if they are running the course.

Zoo4m8

I should have clarified a bit, though HCT are based in Kilkenny they are running courses at different centres round the country as far as I can see, I did my course in Gorey in Wexford...they might be worth a call to see if there is a course somewhere near you.

Blackgrass

AntrimGlens wrote: »

Do you think Bayer or Monsanto give a **** about ensuring their products are safe to use and non toxic?

Actually, well i wouldn't say care so much as worried about profit share! But, the bosslady is doing sponsored research on 'Triazole fungicides and their effects on the Phenotype/expression of a plants genes in the field/environment' bit of a mouthful but what it really is, is doing research for a German ag chem company in tandem with someone based in a lab studying ways to reduce the levels of chem left in the crop at harvest.
Ties in with the pesticide directive a little bit.

9935452

Zoo4m8 wrote: »

HCT in Kilkenny, 275 for three days, did in a centre about an hour from me, finished last Monday,
I'd like to give every one a heads up, 1, the record keeping is going to be intense. 2. The tutor told us the only person buying pesticides in the future is the housewife squirting her paths using one of those handheld jobs from Woodies etc.
You can talk about it or moan about it till the cows come home but if you don't have a number you are not getting chemicals..end of story,
Initially you could buy 20 litres at a time but that's gone so if you are only doing a bit of Roundup round the yard with a knapsack or a thousand acres with a tank of a sprayer it's all the same..no number, no chemicals..

I can see two things happening here. one is there is going to be a massive stock up on chemicals before this comes into place. two is we will all have a mate who will have done the course who will supply us with chemicals

Dawggone

Blackgrass wrote: »

Actually, well i wouldn't say care so much as worried about profit share! But, the bosslady is doing sponsored research on 'Triazole fungicides and their effects on the Phenotype/expression of a plants genes in the field/environment' bit of a mouthful but what it really is, is doing research for a German ag chem company in tandem with someone based in a lab studying ways to reduce the levels of chem left in the crop at harvest.
Ties in with the pesticide directive a little bit.

All this regulation (whilst necessary) is adding a lot of cost to the chemicals by the time they hit the shelves.

Zoo4m8

9935452 wrote: »

I can see two things happening here. one is there is going to be a massive stock up on chemicals before this comes into place. two is we will all have a mate who will have done the course who will supply us with chemicals

I agree on the first point and if I was an occasional user I'd be stocking up now not waiting till the deadline appears over the horizon.
On the second point this was raised at the course and it was explained because of the rigorous record keeping there would have to a fair degree of cooperation between the buyer and the user, no point rolling up to a lads yard asking for a drop of Roundup because if he has it he'll have stated in his records he has it so if he wants to help his friend he'll have to state in the records that he applied it for him, and don't you know if you and I and hundreds of others have reckoned that this is the way to go then the powers that be will be well aware of the possibility of this happening.
I guess it's a case of 'watch this space'..

And while I think of it there is a knapsack course , aimed at the horticulture sector I suppose, which would suit occasional users and would not be as rigorous as the boom sprayer course..

Blackgrass

Dawggone wrote: »

All this regulation (whilst necessary) is adding a lot of cost to the chemicals by the time they hit the shelves.

It's a joke really. Depending on how much you have to searching, the rspb over here gave the conservatives monies last election, low and behold they recieve massive funding a few years later from the govt they as a 'charity' funded. It stinks as no politician will say hold on folks what's the craic as they're seen as in the pocket of big business destroying the environment. Then when they bring out some new great idea of no x,yz we enter a big merry go round of deals between all involved. Then Joe public thinks they're great standing up to big Ag-chem but not realising they're been taken for a fool
It's a pia. Need to keep a digital and written copy of every chem application and the drivers diary but that is kept sepperate so as not to 'confuse' the official records. So someone from grain assurance can look at for 2 seconds tick a box and be happy.

But I don't intend to annoy you daragh but i think IMO the best cod of all is the ad plants on maize/rye et-al. But then I'm a hypocrite in growing osr so let's not say toooo much

Dawggone

You've just got to love the MO of the RSPB!
I frequent a couple of grouse moors in the High Peak and the RSPB either bought or got a lease on 8k acres overlooking Greater Manchester area.
They decided to "rewild" it and it's a GREAT success. It was a very productive grouse moor before they got their hands on it. Now even the raptors are leaving as its a wildlife desert.

While on the topic who the feck allowed the RSPCA to wear uniforms like the Police?

Blackgrass

Dawggone wrote: »

You've just got to love the MO of the RSPB!
I frequent a couple of grouse moors in the High Peak and the RSPB either bought or got a lease on 8k acres overlooking Greater Manchester area.
They decided to "rewild" it and it's a GREAT success. It was a very productive grouse moor before they got their hands on it. Now even the raptors are leaving as its a wildlife desert.

While on the topic who the feck allowed the RSPCA to wear uniforms like the Police?

In the last decade or so these organisations have been colonised and over run by idealists and people with far too much time and feelings of self importance.. RSPCA are now the conscience of the nation and more power than the cops, in their own views interfering in things they have no need to. Look At the TB issue in the sw of the uk and spreading, a normal country where people aren't so removed from the realities of farming other than occasional visit in their Chelsea tractor this would have sorted years ago

Dawggone

Blackgrass wrote: »

In the last decade or so these organisations have been colonised and over run by idealists and people with far too much time and feelings of self importance.. RSPCA are now the conscience of the nation and more power than the cops, in their own views interfering in things they have no need to. Look At the TB issue in the sw of the uk and spreading, a normal country where people aren't so removed from the realities of farming other than occasional visit in their Chelsea tractor this would have sorted years ago

+1 Agree. Hearts and minds...

_Brian

9935452 wrote: »

I can see two things happening here. one is there is going to be a massive stock up on chemicals before this comes into place. two is we will all have a mate who will have done the course who will supply us with chemicals

We won't stick up. But yea my first thought was can't I just get someone with the training done to get chemical for me??

Being part time and every days leave from work is treasured there's no hope of me taking three days to go on a sprayer course, it just can't happen.

So a "work round"will be found for the little we need.

razor8

_Brian wrote: »

We won't stick up. But yea my first thought was can't I just get someone with the training done to get chemical for me??

Being part time and every days leave from work is treasured there's no hope of me taking three days to go on a sprayer course, it just can't happen.

So a "work round"will be found for the little we need.

Can't see many guys willing to buy on someone else's behalf. It's he who will be prosecuted if anything goes wrong or someone else is found using chemicals he has supposedly bought

Whole situation is stupid, a course of a hr max should be fine for occasional users

C4d78

razor8 wrote: »

Can't see many guys willing to buy on someone else's behalf. It's he who will be prosecuted if anything goes wrong or someone else is found using chemicals he has supposedly bought

Whole situation is stupid, a course of a hr max should be fine for occasional users

+1

_Brian

razor8 wrote: »

Can't see many guys willing to buy on someone else's behalf. It's he who will be prosecuted if anything goes wrong or someone else is found using chemicals he has supposedly bought

Whole situation is stupid, a course of a hr max should be fine for occasional users

There's always a guy.. I'm sure everyone on here can think of at least one person they could turn to for this or similar.. What's the story north of the border ??

Farmer

_Brian wrote: »

There's always a guy.. I'm sure everyone on here can think of at least one person they could turn to for this or similar.. What's the story north of the border ??

Sure there's a few fellows along the border with all the gear, a huge background in chemicals, and now unemployed since the radioactive diesel came along. It'll be no bother to them to put a few tankers of MCPA together.

_Brian

Farmer wrote: »

Sure there's a few fellows along the border with all the gear, a huge background in chemicals, and now unemployed since the radioactive diesel came along. It'll be no bother to them to put a few tankers of MCPA together.

Problem solved so

Farrell

_Brian wrote: »

There's always a guy.. I'm sure everyone on here can think of at least one person they could turn to for this or similar.. What's the story north of the border ??

UK is doing the same, won't make a difference if us from the south buying in North or vice versa, we'll all need license of some sort.
Licence to use, licence to sell oh & someone with an inspection licence to say the equipment is ok to be used.
Allot of jobs there

darragh_haven

Blackgrass wrote: »

It's a joke really. Depending on how much you have to searching, the rspb over here gave the conservatives monies last election, low and behold they recieve massive funding a few years later from the govt they as a 'charity' funded. It stinks as no politician will say hold on folks what's the craic as they're seen as in the pocket of big business destroying the environment. Then when they bring out some new great idea of no x,yz we enter a big merry go round of deals between all involved. Then Joe public thinks they're great standing up to big Ag-chem but not realising they're been taken for a fool
It's a pia. Need to keep a digital and written copy of every chem application and the drivers diary but that is kept sepperate so as not to 'confuse' the official records. So someone from grain assurance can look at for 2 seconds tick a box and be happy.

But I don't intend to annoy you daragh but i think IMO the best cod of all is the ad plants on maize/rye et-al. But then I'm a hypocrite in growing osr so let's not say toooo much

Hey Blackgrass, I totally agree with you about the growing of a crop (maize or anything else) for AD plants. AD plants should be run on at least 60% waste or secondary feedstock. And d if you need to top up with a grown crop, that'd be fine.
Saying that. If it was as much of a money spinner in Rep of Ireland as it is in Northern Ireland I'd be all over it like a fat kid on a cake. I too am a hypocrite ☺

Hugh 2

Zoo4m8 wrote: »

I agree on the first point and if I was an occasional user I'd be stocking up now not waiting till the deadline appears over the horizon.
On the second point this was raised at the course and it was explained because of the rigorous record keeping there would have to a fair degree of cooperation between the buyer and the user, no point rolling up to a lads yard asking for a drop of Roundup because if he has it he'll have stated in his records he has it so if he wants to help his friend he'll have to state in the records that he applied it for him, and don't you know if you and I and hundreds of others have reckoned that this is the way to go then the powers that be will be well aware of the possibility of this happening.
I guess it's a case of 'watch this space'..

And while I think of it there is a knapsack course , aimed at the horticulture sector I suppose, which would suit occasional users and would not be as rigorous as the boom sprayer course..

On the knapsack course - almost all my spraying is done from the quad (No boom) would I get away with the knap sack course and just get contractor in for spraying the odd few paddocks that I spray for docks and reseeding etc.

And when will this deadline be coming in? (when should I start stockpiling?)
If I don't do course within next month before cows start calving it will just have to wait till this time next year.

_Brian

Farrell wrote: »

UK is doing the same, won't make a difference if us from the south buying in North or vice versa, we'll all need license of some sort.
Licence to use, licence to sell oh & someone with an inspection licence to say the equipment is ok to be used.
Allot of jobs there

So what volume of say roundup can be bought without a licence?? Or are gardeners expected to train as well??

AntrimGlens

Farrell wrote: »

UK is doing the same, won't make a difference if us from the south buying in North or vice versa, we'll all need license of some sort.
Licence to use, licence to sell oh & someone with an inspection licence to say the equipment is ok to be used.
Allot of jobs there

At it stands at the minute in the North, you shall not need a licence or cert to purchase chemicals when the new legislation comes into play in November 2015. You shall only require a licence to spray the chemicals you purchased and have your sprayer accredited if it is older than 5 yr old.
I'd say in time it will become like the sheep dip, that you will need a licence or cert to purchase, otherwise it remains open to abuse until you get a Cross Compliance inspection or FQAS audit.

Zoo4m8

Hugh 2 wrote: »

On the knapsack course - almost all my spraying is done from the quad (No boom) would I get away with the knap sack course and just get contractor in for spraying the odd few paddocks that I spray for docks and reseeding etc.

And when will this deadline be coming in? (when should I start stockpiling?)
If I don't do course within next month before cows start calving it will just have to wait till this time next year.

I'd certainly expect to get away with it..and I'd be hiding the quad sprayer and have the knapsack left in plain sight just in case...:)

Should have looked it up but off the top of my head it's 15/11/15

Zoo4m8

_Brian wrote: »

So what volume of say roundup can be bought without a licence?? Or are gardeners expected to train as well??

I can only repeat what we were told during the course...the only people buying pesticides will be the housewife squirting the path round the house with one of those already mixed things, I presume stuff like Pathclear etc. like everything in this country it could well shake out to not be quite as onerous as first made out.

But what will happen is that all retailers, whether it be garden centre or your corner hardware store will be required to have the same storeage facilities as the big agri places have now, that includes an advisor on proper use, far more restrictive record keeping etc so obviously it's not going to happen and the agri place is where you will have to go and the smaller places will just not stock pesticides.

sea12

Only bought. My sprayer a few years ago to make it handy to spray for docks and rushes at the right stage. Contractor always came when it suited him. If this comes in everybody will be getting the contractor and it will never be done on time. Hard to justify taking 3 days off work for this.

Nekarsulm

sea12 wrote: »

Only bought. My sprayer a few years ago to make it handy to spray for docks and rushes at the right stage. Contractor always came when it suited him. If this comes in everybody will be getting the contractor and it will never be done on time. Hard to justify taking 3 days off work for this.

With the new radioactive marker in the green diesel, I can see our semi-protected criminals from S Armagh getting into the spray supply trade, as they did with fake Ivomec a decade ago

Farrell

_Brian wrote: »

So what volume of say roundup can be bought without a licence?? Or are gardeners expected to train as well??

Supposedly woodies etc will be suppling 1 Litre packs.
Gardener's havevtondo the course too

Farrell

AntrimGlens wrote: »

At it stands at the minute in the North, you shall not need a licence or cert to purchase chemicals when the new legislation comes into play in November 2015. You shall only require a licence to spray the chemicals you purchased and have your sprayer accredited if it is older than 5 yr old.
I'd say in time it will become like the sheep dip, that you will need a licence or cert to purchase, otherwise it remains open to abuse until you get a Cross Compliance inspection or FQAS audit.

If you need a licence to spray the chemical you purchased, then what control is in place to ensure those purchasing will be able to spray?

AntrimGlens

Farrell wrote: »

If you need a licence to spray the chemical you purchased, then what control is in place to ensure those purchasing will be able to spray?

Absolutely none - which makes the mockery of the whole thing.

Zoo4m8

Farrell wrote: »

If you need a licence to spray the chemical you purchased, then what control is in place to ensure those purchasing will be able to spray?

None.. But you need the number to purchase the chemical...and to get the number you do the course..and after a practical and a theory exam that is supposed to demonstrate that you have been paying attention and now know how to operate a sprayer and therefore how to spray, all is therefore fine and dandy..

Bullocks

Where can the course be done around galway does anyone know

AntrimGlens

Zoo4m8 wrote: »

None.. But you need the number to purchase the chemical...and to get the number you do the course....

Zoo - this is the thing up here you don't need a number to purchase the chemical, you will be able to buy it no bother without it, you just need the number to spray it.

newholland mad

it would be risky stocking up on too much chemical in advance just to avoid doing a course, next thing either that products reg expires or the pcs number changes and you have a pile of chem that could land you in hot water if an inspector ever came across it, fine, cost to get rid of and maby any crop it has been applied to being condemed. If you have a sprayer bite the bullet and do the course or get rid of the sprayer!

newholland

Bullocks wrote: »

Where can the course be done around galway does anyone know

Westport College of Further Education do it over 8 evenings 630 to 830 starting on 10 Feburary and it costs 200. Westportcfe.ie or email admin@westportcfe.ie for an application form.

Zoo4m8

AntrimGlens wrote: »

Zoo - this is the thing up here you don't need a number to purchase the chemical, you will be able to buy it no bother without it, you just need the number to spray it.

Ah right.. So it's starting to look like the EU make the rules and each countries Dept of Ag applies them as they see fit? Hang on a min..so what's new about that?
Mind you it could be all change again before the deadline..

Bullocks

newholland wrote: »

Westport College of Further Education do it over 8 evenings 630 to 830 starting on 10 Feburary and it costs 200. Westportcfe.ie or email admin@westportcfe.ie for an application form.

Thanks newholland , at €200 its as well to do it . Bit of a spin but sure it'll get me out of the house for a few evenings

9935452

AntrimGlens wrote: »

Zoo - this is the thing up here you don't need a number to purchase the chemical, you will be able to buy it no bother without it, you just need the number to spray it.

So whats to stop people from the republic heading up north and buying their supplies and just spraying away when they get home?